Television The Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Hamnat

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It was a good finale, what I expected, action. Lots of people hitting each other. I've enjoyed the series.


Thought it was a bit
It kind of was in a way. But, the reason I think it worked is that it was all televised and broadcast. I don't believe that the GRC council would have been so inclined to listen if he wasn't so compelling AND the public got to see the plea for reason from new Captain America.
 

sullydnl

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Wait, is this actually good? Like really good and not just "better than expected" or "better than most Marvel stuff" or "good for being a superhero series".

Only asking the people who usually don't like Marvel/superhero stuff, obviously.
Nah, wouldn't bother with it unless you're a marvel fan. It's fairly generic stuff.
 

simonhch

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The finale was decent, not as good as the rest of the season I thought. For example, I thought Sam’s uniform looked department store level, really bad. And the moment when the onlookers said “Look, it’s Black Falcon”.....”Nah, that’s Captain America”, was maybe necessary, but cheesy as feck. I eye rolled.

There were some nice elements though. Overall I loved the series, even if the finale wasn’t as good as I hoped.
 

Ish

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Was decent, overall. Nothing more, nothing less. And the amount of times they tried "talking & reasoning" to Carli, when it was clear she was a bloody murderer, was ridiculous.
 

simonhch

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Was decent, overall. Nothing more, nothing less. And the amount of times they tried "talking & reasoning" to Carli, when it was clear she was a bloody murderer, was ridiculous.
Agreed. Harry Kane’s arc was decent though.

Someone has to explain to me the Super Soldier relationship to bullets though. They take falls and beatings that would instantly kill any individual, with little to no damage. Yet a couple of bullets to the torso seem remarkably effective. Always bothered me.
 

Ish

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Agreed. Harry Kane’s arc was decent though.

Someone has to explain to me the Super Soldier relationship to bullets though. They take falls and beatings that would instantly kill any individual, with little to no damage. Yet a couple of bullets to the torso seem remarkably effective. Always bothered me.
:lol: agreed about Wyatt.
 

ivaldo

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Was decent, overall. Nothing more, nothing less. And the amount of times they tried "talking & reasoning" to Carli, when it was clear she was a bloody murderer, was ridiculous.
By the end, she was almost desperate to spill a bit of innocent blood. Zemo was far more likeable by comparison, which says a lot.

Still enjoyed it though. Far better than I was expecting.
 

ivaldo

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Someone has to explain to me the Super Soldier relationship to bullets though. They take falls and beatings that would instantly kill any individual, with little to no damage. Yet a couple of bullets to the torso seem remarkably effective. Always bothered me.
Do you even science bro?
 

Andersons Dietician

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Agreed. Harry Kane’s arc was decent though.

Someone has to explain to me the Super Soldier relationship to bullets though. They take falls and beatings that would instantly kill any individual, with little to no damage. Yet a couple of bullets to the torso seem remarkably effective. Always bothered me.
severe allergic reaction to metal.

Feel with that final episode the series it sort of pulled its hammy at the last 10 metres. It was a good season, was a fairly decent ending episode but just kind of felt underwhelming.

Thought Carli was decent and played well.Harry Kane apart from the most punchable face since Tim Westwood was pretty good and quite enjoyed his arc.
 

Ish

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By the end, she was almost desperate to spill a bit of innocent blood. Zemo was far more likeable by comparison, which says a lot.

Still enjoyed it though. Far better than I was expecting.
Yep, her character was just a waste. But was decent series overall. Ever since Altered Carbon, I still struggle to take a liking to Mackie, though I thought he was decent in this as well.
 

Oldyella

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Agreed. Harry Kane’s arc was decent though.

Someone has to explain to me the Super Soldier relationship to bullets though. They take falls and beatings that would instantly kill any individual, with little to no damage. Yet a couple of bullets to the torso seem remarkably effective. Always bothered me.
Agreed. Especially as she had already been shot a few episodes earlier and shrugged it off pretty damn quickly.

By the end, she was almost desperate to spill a bit of innocent blood. Zemo was far more likeable by comparison, which says a lot.

Still enjoyed it though. Far better than I was expecting.
Zemos motives are sensible though. If we lived in a world with hero's like that, I'm sure many would think the same.
 

ivaldo

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Zemos motives are sensible though. If we lived in a world with hero's like that, I'm sure many would think the same.
It whittles down to a form of genocide. The fact we can have a degree of compassion for the character proves he is well written and well played. I don't think anyone gives a shit about any of the Flag Smashers. The Falcon did a much better job of articulating thier goal in his Zach Morris style speech about what we've all learned than they had done in 6 episodes.
 

Berbasbullet

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Show got better as it went on! Good watch I thought, fair play they’re getting the TV shows right now.
 

decorativeed

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I think a lot of it could come down to the actors in the flag smashers not being very good.

Or the material for them. Always feel they're stretching.
Yeah, they are poor. The leader, Karli, is devoid of personality - let alone charisma - yet the rest hang on her every word. They are not exactly well rounded, three dimensional characters, and that's been the main weakness of this show for me.
 

decorativeed

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Sam’s speech to the GRC... nailed it :devil:
Yeah it was a good speech, but he didn't half look dopey in that head gear as he said it! I know it's comic accurate, but we are used to seeing actors remove their masks for scenes like this.
 

Oldyella

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It whittles down to a form of genocide. The fact we can have a degree of compassion for the character proves he is well written and well played. I don't think anyone gives a shit about any of the Flag Smashers. The Falcon did a much better job of articulating thier goal in his Zach Morris style speech about what we've all learned than they had done in 6 episodes.
Yeah very true.

I think Zemo is a great addition a hope he pops up more but I always thought his beef was with the avengers rather than super soldiers. He just didn't like hero's and the collateral damage from their fights. The fact they are sending people to the raft suggests we will see more of it. Was explicitly mentioned twice.
 

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I thought the Falcon action sequences were pretty good. A bit of a stretch for Sam to be so amazing with the shield, but whatevs.

Episode was a bit flat though. Walker rejoined them out of nowhere. Flag Smashers really were hollow. As I think I said about the last episode, they lean so heavily on trope. As does the politicos angle.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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Just finished binging it. I enjoyed it well enough. It was a bet eye rolling here and there, and I wasnt a fan of Mackies new Captain America outfit. His Falcon outfit was much better. In saying that, Caps outfit in the first avengers movie looked gash as well, so maybe it will get a tweak going forward.

the one thing I would have changed is John Walker could have been a lot better. I didnt get the wholesome vibe from him at all at the start. Just kinda came across as a bit of a douche. Would have enjoyed the character more had he been a mirror to Steve, only to fall away hard once he got the serum. I feel that arc could have been done a lot better.

All in all, as good as any of the movies.
 

decorativeed

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Just finished binging it. I enjoyed it well enough. It was a bet eye rolling here and there, and I wasnt a fan of Mackies new Captain America outfit. His Falcon outfit was much better. In saying that, Caps outfit in the first avengers movie looked gash as well, so maybe it will get a tweak going forward.

the one thing I would have changed is John Walker could have been a lot better. I didnt get the wholesome vibe from him at all at the start. Just kinda came across as a bit of a douche. Would have enjoyed the character more had he been a mirror to Steve, only to fall away hard once he got the serum. I feel that arc could have been done a lot better.

All in all, as good as any of the movies.
That's because he's supposed to be like that.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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That's because he's supposed to be like that.
Which is my problem with it. A douche is a douche, you can always see it coming. And it played out exactly as predicted. Having being a mirror to Steve, and making Bucky and Sam the douches for not giving him a chance would have played a little better. Watching someone fall is far more interesting when its not expected.
 

Hamnat

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Which is my problem with it. A douche is a douche, you can always see it coming. And it played out exactly as predicted. Having being a mirror to Steve, and making Bucky and Sam the douches for not giving him a chance would have played a little better. Watching someone fall is far more interesting when its not expected.
The serum doesn't turn you evil though. That's the whole point of it. Walker is who he is that's why he sucked as Captain America. By the time we saw that serum on the ground and him looking at it. We were all supposed to be like "oh shit no" because you know he is the wrong guy to have it. Because all those bad traits would be amplified.
 

el3mel

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I felt the fight was really rushed and the action started to get a little bit messy in who fighting or saving whom. The whole final confrontation between Sharon, Sam and Karli and Sharo revealed as the broker was rushed beyond belief. Walker walking in and instantly joining the fight was also rushed.

The last 15 minutes when the pacing slowed down and gave insight on Sam and Bucky post the fight it got better. It's a little bit annoying, because they gave deserved time for setting up sequels and stuff instead of giving the final fight better pacing and time to stretch out.

This episode needed 15 or hell, even 30 more minutes in my opinion.

Still a decent finale, not bad or terrible, and the rest of the series was great. Could have wrapped it with better pacing though. 8/10.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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The serum doesn't turn you evil though. That's the whole point of it. Walker is who he is that's why he sucked as Captain America. By the time we saw that serum on the ground and him looking at it. We were all supposed to be like "oh shit no" because you know he is the wrong guy to have it. Because all those bad traits would be amplified.
So 'predictable' like I said? And I didnt say the serum would have turned him evil. Power and tragedy would have done that. Its what zemo was talking about, and part of his motivation. He says theres only one Steve Rodgers. If Walker had started off mirroring Steve, Zemo would have been easy to dismiss as just a mad man who doesnt want super soldiers. But if Walker actually proved him right it becomes a harder conversation to have. Its not just as simple as finding the right guy and sticking him with the serum.

Walker being a douche from the start just made it feel like we were killing time until he became super douche.
 

Hamnat

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So 'predictable' like I said? And I didnt say the serum would have turned him evil. Power and tragedy would have done that. Its what zemo was talking about, and part of his motivation. He says theres only one Steve Rodgers. If Walker had started off mirroring Steve, Zemo would have been easy to dismiss as just a mad man who doesnt want super soldiers. But if Walker actually proved him right it becomes a harder conversation to have. Its not just as simple as finding the right guy and sticking him with the serum.

Walker being a douche from the start just made it feel like we were killing time until he became super douche.
I knew he would be USAgent the second his casting was announced. So was that predictable sure? That's the character though.These characters have existed for decades in countless stories . Complaining that they are who they are on screen doesn't make sense. It's like saying wow that Peter Parker guy getting bit by a radioactive spider was kinda predictable.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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I knew he would be USAgent the second his casting was announced. So was that predictable sure? That's the character though.These characters have existed for decades in countless stories . Complaining that they are who they are on screen doesn't make sense. It's like saying wow that Peter Parker guy getting bit by a radioactive spider was kinda predictable.
I see what your problem is. You think Im complaining. Im not. Im offering an opinion. Theres no need to go full nerd on me.
 

Hamnat

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Anyway interesting that they may move on with a 4th Captain America film rather than another season. Both could work.
 

ha_rooney

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Anyway interesting that they may move on with a 4th Captain America film rather than another season. Both could work.
I’m slightly surprised they’re not going for a 2nd season, I think the TV show 6 hour length worked quite well for this. But, as they’ve announced they’re developing a movie, I reckon it’s to reveal something very big that affects wider MCU phase 4/5. If I were to guess right now I’d speculate it either ties into the Secret Invasion story or the re-emergence of Hydra. Otherwise it may be how they’ll set up the Young Avengers.
 

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Was an average finale. Especially till the big speech. But closed it out pretty well after. Thought the Isiah Bradley chat was well handled. US agent got a great arc. Winter Soldier has surprised me this series. SS can actually act well. Zemo getting the other Soldiers was hilarious.

Flip side, Falcon America's headgear needs to go. Karli was closed out poorly. Power Broker shit I really didn't buy into.

On the whole much much better than WandaVision. Rare to see Marvel stuff better at talking than dumb fun action
 

Sylar

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Enjoyed the finale. Especially the speeches, and the arc for US Agent.

I agree the flag smashers stuff was weak. They went too terroristy too early. The Power Broker stuff was meh especially with the post credit scene. I do hope theres a twist like one that was mentioned earlier in this thread as to why this is happening. Seems a bit too OTT.

Do think the finale needed another 15-30 minutes though.
 

Oldyella

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Enjoyed the finale. Especially the speeches, and the arc for US Agent.

I agree the flag smashers stuff was weak. They went too terroristy too early. The Power Broker stuff was meh especially with the post credit scene. I do hope theres a twist like one that was mentioned earlier in this thread as to why this is happening. Seems a bit too OTT.

Do think the finale needed another 15-30 minutes though.
They are supposed to be doing an armour wars story, I can see Sharon being a cause of that if she starts selling anything designed by Stark.
 

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Meh. Very average cliche finale in the end. Baby Kurt Russell was easily the best thing about the show.
 

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Anyway interesting that they may move on with a 4th Captain America film rather than another season. Both could work.
I think both could work given the post credits scene on the finale, they need to build that up slowly, rather than in a 3 hour movie and it gets cowboshed at the end with ease.
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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So I loved this show. Cap 2 Winter Soldier being my favourite movie of the entire MCU I felt this had the same kind of vibe, somewhat drama/thriller.

I personally adored Marvel trying to take on the issue of race through the Isaiah Bradley story as that origin story leans incredibly heavily on real atrocities. Carl Lumbly was incredible in the role. Be amazed if he doesn't get an Emmy nomination.

My only thing about the show was the very obvious vaccine story that completely got cut out. I felt it would've fleshed the flag smashers out better as I agree with many of the Karli sentiments. She was a bit of a bellend. Untrained with this new found power. Zemo completely nailed her mentality about radicalized and yet they still tried to help her for no reason.


I loved the new Captain America costume as it was so similar to the comic. Surprised people here hate it! Same goes for US Agent new costume.

Needs be said Wyatt Russell was just bloody perfect. He will be a great character down the line as in the comic he has been hero and villain and he is such a fun actor for the role.
 

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Wait, is this actually good? Like really good and not just "better than expected" or "better than most Marvel stuff" or "good for being a superhero series".

Only asking the people who usually don't like Marvel/superhero stuff, obviously.
Nope.
 

Realist81

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I thought the Falcon action sequences were pretty good. A bit of a stretch for Sam to be so amazing with the shield, but whatevs.

Episode was a bit flat though. Walker rejoined them out of nowhere. Flag Smashers really were hollow. As I think I said about the last episode, they lean so heavily on trope. As does the politicos angle.
Errrm I think you'll find he had a montage and everything
 

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Absolutely loved the series as a whole, especially the budding friendship of Sam and Bucky! The GRC speech by Sam was phenomenal and then the induction scene towards the end broke me. :lol: I can definatley see there being a season 2 with this unless there is some hidden set up for the future movies I missed.

Edit. Probably highly cringe, but I thought when Sam got knocked down and Khali said "stay down" would have been perfect for Sam to respond "I can do this all day" :lol:
 

duffer

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I found the speech to the senators really cheesy. Of course I get the point of it but those two senators listening and learning seemed more outrageously unrealistic than any of the action sequences.

Also his new suit was awful. He's Captain America, give him the proper suit.

Overall an enjoyable watch, 7/10 for me.
 

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The finale was a trainwreck. Shoddily edited, poorly choreographed action, silly Cap costume, poor writing (that big speech was comically on-the-nose), the nonsensical character 180 turn from Walker, the hugely anticlimactic closure to Bucky's redemption arc. Just so bad.

I was reasonably invested in the series and particularly liked the penultimate episode but the finale soured things. A sub-par series overall.