Massively underrating Coluna's defensive ability. There's nothing Ince brings to the table that Coluna doesn't, a hundred times better. Not to mention he can easily control the midfield with Socrates which Ince doesn't have a dream of. There's no way I would ever consider replacing Coluna - a rare combination of world class skill, creativity and fantastic defensive output - with someone who's simply a very poor man's version of 50% of him. When it comes to handling Platini, Coluna would be very much involved in the effort.
The Fifth Redcafe Sheep Draft QF - indnyc/crappycraperson vs. prath92/KM
- Thread starter green_smiley
- Start date
Finally decided to go and vote for indnyc/crappy... 
edit: oh, they won!
edit: oh, they won!
Shit.. GS switched his vote in the end it seems. Gonna preempt some controversy, I switched my vote from our team to prath's when it was 8-8 since actual score line was 6-7 (when you remove managers' votes) to make it 7-9, so as to make it clear that prath was leading. Like or like it not, many posters change their vote after seeing the results and a lot of times vote to tie if they perceive it as a closer game. (We were leading 8-7 in the morning in total votes shown but actual scoreline was 6-6, and it was 8-8 (i.e 6-7) minutes after I saw again while driving to work)
I thought best case someone new comes in and votes to close the gap and make it a tie. But.. I did not count on someone switching their vote.
Sorry @prath92 - was not my intention to pull these kind of shenanigans for a draft match win.
I thought best case someone new comes in and votes to close the gap and make it a tie. But.. I did not count on someone switching their vote.
Sorry @prath92 - was not my intention to pull these kind of shenanigans for a draft match win.
I think you playing without a clear striker hurt you to some extend, but overall, your squad is more prepared to go further into the draft
I think it was fine but draft community on here is set on its way to change their mind on anything.
Managers and AM should have two options. Vote for your own team, or not at all. Place a vote on the opposition to "balance" your vote between co-managers and it should count as a vote for the opposition. Cuts out any chance of accidents or gaming the system.
Not saying you did any funny business, just my 0.02 on the matter.
I agree. Problem is that current way of voting don't allow you to see results without voting yourselves. I remember earlier that managers would agree beforehand as to if they will vote or not. That was also a direct result of TITO losing a close match against antohan when he voted for his team and anto did not. I feel better now since GS switched his vote for other reasons but still probably should not have switched at all. I most likely won't vote at all in next match up
Stiles is there re: Socrates and if you are worried about Ronaldinho just give less aggressive instructions to Amoros (who is better suited to pick him up than Cesare Maldini) and have an actual attacker on the right rather than a fullback crossing balls.
I think it's more you were set on playing Cristiano on the left (yet saying he was intelligent enough to be anywhere) and discarding Amoros' man-marking abilities.
No because you can't satisfy everyone. Unless you end up playing a system where everyone is the position they had proven themselves in you would always have naysayers one way or another. If we play C.Ron in right, guaranteed there would be folks saying we are not using peak Ronaldo and we would be forced to specify if it was 06/07 version. People won't buy him playing his Madrid role on the right even though he does pop up at right some times at Madrid. I am more surprised that people consider Benzema as proper 9 when at Madrid you can frequently and easily seem him dropping deep or even on the left at times. Only issue here was if Sivori could play as 9.5 or not. It is odd that in real world managers experiment with players and their positions much more frequently than it is allowed on fantasy draft games on here.
As far as Amoros goes, we decided on back 5 so that's that. I would rather people argue over what is in front of them rather than indulge in fantasy re-writing of line ups.
Tbh, the OP talked too much about Gattuso and hardly explained what the other two were doing.
That trio wouldn't control shit against Platini, Neeskens and Stiles. They wouldn't have a chance, not because any of them are poor but because the other trio is clearly better.
The point was that midfield therefore required two hard-working CMs focused on the defensive side and a more dynamic transition to counter through Raí (who would work better with that front trio than Socrates).
Not particularly fussed whether you would prefer Coluna even when restricted to play a dedicated DM role, but Raí ahead of Socrates would be a no-brainer IRL. I guess prath and KM didn't research him all that much or went with what wouldn't be a hard sell.
I actually have no doubt he could. What I couldn't see was him working in that role with another 9.5 coming from deep (that's what made Platini special, how easily he morphed from 10 to a poaching 9 ala Inzaghi) and Cristiano also wanting to pop into the box as a 9. Too many of your attacking players require other forwards doing the selfless work and movement to provide the smokescreen for them to "pop up" somewhere. Christ, even Neeskens was good at that.
FWIW, I think Sívori does have the right attributes for the role of a second striker providing that sort of movement and pulling defenders, but he would most naturally do it pulling them left, which is exactly what a Platini/Cabrini team needs, but you just lumped Cristiano in there. feck it, give me Cristiano 06/08 for all I care, that side would work better.
And it was a feckup, so that's NOT that. The whole point is arguing what's good/bad about teams and how they can be made to work better.
I don't think so. It is simply about if the given team can beat the oppo one in front of them. Whether either manager could have lined up differently in better or worse manner does not help the match up. All that can be entertained once the voting is over.
Your expectation from Platini is classic example of draft myopia on here. Apparently he can't work well with Pirlo because he is some one who would also drop deep and want to orchestrate attacks. But he also needs to be able to play the false 9 role needed. But only a very specific set of forwards can allow him to play that role. But .. but.. non sense. I agree that it would have served us better if Sivori had proven pedigree of playing on right but even this set up was far from a feck up. At the end of the day all 4 of Ronaldo, Sivori, Platini and Neekens are verstalie enough that clogging up of penalty box or lack of body in there is not a concern. The front 3 of Ronaldinho, Ronaldo and Rivaldo worked fine even though goofy and Rivaldo both preferred to attack from left.
I'm not talking about the entire game, but when they have the ball they can easily deliver constant waves of attacks in a meaningful way which Ince can only dream of when surrounded by this company. At least someone like Coluna who has the credibility of being the heart of one of the greatest teams ever can take matters in his hand and make it a contest. Coluna and Socrates is a pretty formidable creative central, I don't see why they would be bullied off the ball in this game. There's not much between Coluna and Neeskens in terms of all round midfield qualities. And Platini's best for both club and country always came in a counter attacking setup while Socrates actually was a part of a midfield that dazzled the world while being sex on the ball.
The beauty of Platini is he is Pirlo, Rui Costa and Inzaghi wrapped into one player. Only other player who is thereabouts is Zico (less Pirlo there).
When you have a player like that you build around him and do what is required to get the full package because then as far as roles are concerned you are playing with more than 10 outfield players. If you give these roles to others you lose that edge Platini offers and may well interfere with him running the show.
True. Just don't see it happening here. It all looks off balance and his job would be more about finding that balance than performing to his best. Mind, good player to have the "find balance" job, but with the midfield they face that job shouldn't be required by design.
Socrates was very different paced to Ronaldinho and Nedved. Top class, but the beauty in that 82 side to me was how Socrates excelled at controlled tempo and Zico the sudden change of tempo. Raí is more of a halfway house which I think works better with these two.
I love how there is more debate on here after the game is already over
The problem is Gattuso to be honest. He's not going to play any other style than counter attack. He's of no use if a midfield attempts to control the proceedings etc. Still, I see no sense whatsoever in picking Ince over Coluna. With the latter, there's a decent shout that he can - going by his prime ability - make it a contest and have 'moments' where he can open the game up and get the rest going. Ince is pointless, he's nowhere near credible enough to be considered anything apart from someone who'd be chasing shadows here. Neeskens will make minced meat of him, whereas it will be an even battle against Coluna. Basically all combinations of that midfield are going to have a tough ask but when you have such a rare elite combination of creativity and defensive ability then you only make yourself weaker by dropping him for a couple of good PL seasons.
That's more tricky. I personally don't buy Socrates in wide formations, he's as Brazilian as a player can get and would be at his best when surrounded by flair players. Which is also one of the reasons why I prefer Coluna there as he's someone who can combine with Socrates. Him and Ronaldinho can produce some magical combinations though, two incredibly creative geniuses with one who's used to playing second fiddle and being great at that, which is the beauty of having Socrates.
My usual philosophy is always getting as much technical skill in the team as possible and win at football. I prefer the flow of play going from Coluna to Socrates to Ronaldinho. If anything Nedved could find it tough to keep up with that interplay, as he was more direct. But definitely Neeskens, Socrates, Ronaldinho and Nedved on the ball will be formidable and create some good stuff, even if Platini and Neeskens are the better duo in the end.
I love how there is more debate on here after the game is already over
Tbh you had the game bang in the middle and it went dead. Checked in again this morning and it was over.I love how there is more debate on here after the game is already over
That's why we won't agree here. I'm a sucker for soak and hit, not fancy stuff.I like watching a bit of samba for sure, but grew up seeing how playing fancy stuff often amounted to nothing.
Sneaky vote by @crappycraperson for the other team to get the win
The soak and hit is pragmatic and works in real life but when you have a chance to build a 'fantasy' team why not build one that would play a brand of football beyond imagination.
And anyway, it's not like you have an alternative that would be able to soak that pressure. Don't really get that - the alternative to playing an elite midfield general in Coluna is.. Paul Ince. Even if you want to soak and hit, Coluna is miles better, especially given his passing range and vision. But once you draft a player like Socrates you practically say good bye to having anything but the Samba brand - you live and die by it.
