The Fifth Redcafe Sheep Draft Round 1 - P-Nut0712 vs. prath92

[Ecstatic]

My midfield is quite simple to understand really.

Ocwirk - firefighter
Boateng - energy and drive
Iniesta - Created

Obviously most of my attacks will be built down my left side where although Irwin is consistently a 7/10 Santos regularly produced to a higher level. Aided by Iniesta we should have lots of joy here.

Good to know. I thought Ocwirk was rather a creative central midfielder.

Will think more about it later.

 

[antohan]

Rai was an attacking midfielder and very important to Sao Paulo during Tele Santana's time there where Tele built a powerful side that defeated Cruyff's Barcelona and Capello's AC Milan in consecutive Intercontinental Cups. In my controversial opinion Sao Paulo was the best side in the world in the early 1990s under Tele.

He was Man of the Match and scored two goals against Cruyff's Barcelona Dream Team in the 1992 Intercontinental Cup leading Sao Paolo to victory over the Champions League winners. He won a transfer to PSG where @Ecstatic can tell more.

Here is good profile
https://www.imortaisdofutebol.com/2012/10/01/craque-imortal-rai/

Not at all controversial. Can argue for/against, but not outlandish or "polemic".

 

[antohan]

Socrates played the 82 World Cup as a RW.

No, he didn't.

 

[antohan]

I've absolutely no idea what P-Nut was thinking with that midfield though.

I think Vieri would absolutely destroy Thiago Silva, more so than Ronaldo with Vierchowod, but I can't see anything else working really.

 

[P-Nut]

Good to know. I thought Ocwirk was rather a creative central midfielder.

Will think more about it later.

He was a creative centre half which places him more in the defensive midfield position in today's formations.

He had an excellent passing range aswell as his defensive contributions which is why with both him and Iniesta in the midfield I think the running of it is being overplayed.

There's a piece on him here...

http://www.world-football-legends.co.uk/index.php/aut/90-ocwirk-ernst

And you can see that he helped define what the defensive midfield role has become today.

 

[P-Nut]

I've absolutely no idea what P-Nut was thinking with that midfield though.

I think Vieri would absolutely destroy Thiago Silva, more so than Ronaldo with Vierchowod, but I can't see anything else working really.

My struggles with the RWB slot meant I wasn't ever able to get an upgrade on both the boatengs. That meant I had to build something that meant I could utilise both of them. Iniesta taking on the playmakers duties and Ocwirk being excellent both defensively and in starting attacks meant that KPB could be covered for both offensively and defensively.

Obviously it's not ideal and a top notch box to box player there would have been much better. However, in this exact match up its not exposed too much due to no goal scoring central midfielder that can punish it.

The one area it could be questioned is on gaining control, which I've addressed already.

 

[prath92]

No, he didn't.

I went by this tbh

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_at_the_1982_FIFA_World_Cup#

 

[antohan]

I went by this tbh

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_at_the_1982_FIFA_World_Cup#

It's wrong. 4-2-2-2 if I ever saw one. Leandro provided the width.

 

[Ecstatic]

Zico about Brazil 82

Eder played wide on the left, but there was nobody carrying out a similar role on the other flank, leaving right-back Leandro isolated.

"I think we got a little lopsided," Zico concludes. "Today, analysing it as coach, I think that if we had had time to train with our midfield quartet it would have been fine.

"We would have been able to adapt; but halfway through the World Cup I think our coach [Tele Santana] should have looked at myself, Falcao, Cerezo and Socrates to take one of us out, bringing in Paulo Isidoro to do a job on the right."

 

[prath92]

Fair enough. I went by the wiki entry

 

[Gio]

I know that’s the point I was making; if the defenders had of been of lesser quality I would have played on the Santos to Vieri link. As that is negated by their strength in the air I didn’t bother to mention it as an easy route to goal. The best route will be isolating Silva with Ronaldo which I’m sure you will admit is a mismatch that only the great defenders can overcome.

To be fair I don't think even the great defenders have managed to keep up with Ronaldo. Actually reckon Silva isn't the worst fit in that respect, a few years ago in the CL he did a fine job on Messi who presents some similar threats on the deck.

 

[P-Nut]

To be fair I don't think even the great defenders have managed to keep up with Ronaldo. Actually reckon Silva isn't the worst fit in that respect, a few years ago in the CL he did a fine job on Messi who presents some similar threats on the deck.

The main difference is the sheer speed and power of running.

Surprised this has been as one sided as it’s been to be honest. I understand my weak right side is a problem but I’d expect my left to cause more problems to the opposition than Praths left could cause to my weak right.

 

[Ecstatic]

The main difference is the sheer speed and power of running.

Surprised this has been as one sided as it’s been to be honest. I understand my weak right side is a problem but I’d expect my left to cause more problems to the opposition than Praths left could cause to my weak right.

The other concern unmentioned is the role attributed to Iniesta, a #10 role in a team supposed to play counter-attacking football. A lot of weight on his shoulders. Not the mot obvious choice. Iniest isn't Deco for example.

Given your squad and the oppo, a 4-4-2 could have been another option:

------------------- Vieiri
----------------------------Ronaldo
--------- Iniesta--------------------- Arce
------------------ Ocwirk----Boateng

On the other hand, Gattuso would have tried to limit the influence of the isolated Iniesta. I rate Ince. Coluna is viewed as one of the greatest cental midfielders. Rai and Socrates are smart players.

You're really unlucky: 2 sheeps, you thought you took the GK Gilmar and not the striker