The John Murtough Era

[Ash86]

Like I said to another poster here, completely agree that this is about money. It’s easy to say we need to get in a lot of players with potential, hunger etc. It doesn’t take a DOF to figure that one out. I agree with you that IDEALLY we should bite the bullet and hold firm. Problem is we are NOT an attractive destination and the basic assumption that we can simply get these young stars is not a very solid one. I am not sure what your solution is here. Continue to pine for FDJ or some other hot young midfielder, knowing we won’t get them (all evidence support this) or alternatively, do nothing, continue to play McFred and get slaughtered? Yes, Casemiro is a short term fix and yes it’s money driven but I am just not sure the club has many other options. He fills a clear need we have had for years and no one can say he is not a top DM.

First of all, lets backtrack a bit. Since Moyes's shitshow almost 10 years ago most of MU fans and posters here i'm sure were all like okay, we need a rebuild. It's okay if it'll take some time, we need to sign players with hunger, who wants to be here etc, etc.

Then stuff happens. And MU is going for these short term fixes. And everyone suddenly, hm, well that makes sense. No it does not. Yes we can't get FDJ, but there are literally a ton of players we can get or could, players that fit the profile. Now deviating from these profile or a strategy, principle, heck even philosophy might, just might yield a better results in current year, but ultimately we will be worse.

That's what i am saying, our problem all these years always, always remained the same, and it's exactly short-fixing everything, every single time. And what, how that's been working out? Not great, right?

I, for one, am tired of this. I actually don't want United to be in CL-spot again this season, if it'll meant we will drop to 7th place or whatever as it was with all, all of our managers post-Moyes, all of them went on and managed to get United to the CL spot, sometimes even with a sort of weak title challenge or something and then in a year, in a two, we were back at being 6,7th.
What do you think is the reason for that? Not a personified "reason" like a Glazers, obviously they are the only common denominator here, but the reason in terms of strategy, decisions? It's exactly short-fixing the things, building something for this year, the next one, not for the next 5-10 years.

That's a main point. As for others. My thinking is that we don't need top players actually. We need good players that will want to be here. There are more that enough of good players around. And many of them will be delighted to go here. Why?
Well simply because they do go to Wolves, West Hams, to Napolis and Leverkusens, to just pick something spanish yourself, does not really matter. Not all of them are playing in CL, not all of the time, not every year. And obviously we do have a huge leg up on all of them because of the pedigree and the money.

 

[justsomebloke]

First of all, lets backtrack a bit. Since Moyes's shitshow almost 10 years ago most of MU fans and posters here i'm sure were all like okay, we need a rebuild. It's okay if it'll take some time, we need to sign players with hunger, who wants to be here etc, etc.

Then stuff happens. And MU is going for these short term fixes. And everyone suddenly, hm, well that makes sense. No it does not. Yes we can't get FDJ, but there are literally a ton of players we can get or could, players that fit the profile. Now deviating from these profile or a strategy, principle, heck even philosophy might, just might yield a better results in current year, but ultimately we will be worse.

That's what i am saying, our problem all these years always, always remained the same, and it's exactly short-fixing everything, every single time. And what, how that's been working out? Not great, right?

I, for one, am tired of this. I actually don't want United to be in CL-spot again this season, if it'll meant we will drop to 7th place or whatever as it was with all, all of our managers post-Moyes, all of them went on and managed to get United to the CL spot, sometimes even with a sort of weak title challenge or something and then in a year, in a two, we were back at being 6,7th.
What do you think is the reason for that? Not a personified "reason" like a Glazers, obviously they are the only common denominator here, but the reason in terms of strategy, decisions? It's exactly short-fixing the things, building something for this year, the next one, not for the next 5-10 years.

That's a main point. As for others. My thinking is that we don't need top players actually. We need good players that will want to be here. There are more that enough of good players around. And many of them will be delighted to go here. Why?
Well simply because they do go to Wolves, West Hams, to Napolis and Leverkusens, to just pick something spanish yourself, does not really matter. Not all of them are playing in CL, not all of the time, not every year. And obviously we do have a huge leg up on all of them because of the pedigree and the money.

Fair points all.

(But I'm still more happy than worried about Casemiro.)

 

[JPRouve]

It's pretty clear that he went to Mama Rabiot for a transfer business crash course, since he came back the boy has been busy harassing everyone in Europe and it's seemingly working.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

First of all, lets backtrack a bit. Since Moyes's shitshow almost 10 years ago most of MU fans and posters here i'm sure were all like okay, we need a rebuild. It's okay if it'll take some time, we need to sign players with hunger, who wants to be here etc, etc.

Then stuff happens. And MU is going for these short term fixes. And everyone suddenly, hm, well that makes sense. No it does not. Yes we can't get FDJ, but there are literally a ton of players we can get or could, players that fit the profile. Now deviating from these profile or a strategy, principle, heck even philosophy might, just might yield a better results in current year, but ultimately we will be worse.

Good post. People here have the memories of goldfish.

How long until the Caf consensus on Murtough does a 180 and becomes that he had a good window because he managed to pull off all these panic signings in the last few weeks?

 

[Esquire]

First of all, lets backtrack a bit. Since Moyes's shitshow almost 10 years ago most of MU fans and posters here i'm sure were all like okay, we need a rebuild. It's okay if it'll take some time, we need to sign players with hunger, who wants to be here etc, etc.

Then stuff happens. And MU is going for these short term fixes. And everyone suddenly, hm, well that makes sense. No it does not. Yes we can't get FDJ, but there are literally a ton of players we can get or could, players that fit the profile. Now deviating from these profile or a strategy, principle, heck even philosophy might, just might yield a better results in current year, but ultimately we will be worse.

That's what i am saying, our problem all these years always, always remained the same, and it's exactly short-fixing everything, every single time. And what, how that's been working out? Not great, right?

I, for one, am tired of this. I actually don't want United to be in CL-spot again this season, if it'll meant we will drop to 7th place or whatever as it was with all, all of our managers post-Moyes, all of them went on and managed to get United to the CL spot, sometimes even with a sort of weak title challenge or something and then in a year, in a two, we were back at being 6,7th.
What do you think is the reason for that? Not a personified "reason" like a Glazers, obviously they are the only common denominator here, but the reason in terms of strategy, decisions? It's exactly short-fixing the things, building something for this year, the next one, not for the next 5-10 years.

That's a main point. As for others. My thinking is that we don't need top players actually. We need good players that will want to be here. There are more that enough of good players around. And many of them will be delighted to go here. Why?
Well simply because they do go to Wolves, West Hams, to Napolis and Leverkusens, to just pick something spanish yourself, does not really matter. Not all of them are playing in CL, not all of the time, not every year. And obviously we do have a huge leg up on all of them because of the pedigree and the money.

I don’t disagree with you and also think we cannot be stuck in a short term fix mode every year. Everyone is as sick as you are. What I am saying is that this is at least to me a short term fix which actually makes sense to plug a gaping need. Ideally we would get in good young hungry players and sure many fans would not mind seeing us finishing outside of top 4 if it means Glazers selling up. But my own opinion which can of course be wrong is that Glazers won’t be quick to sell. I don’t love the Casemiro buy but don’t hate it either.

 

[Esquire]

Good post. People here have the memories of goldfish.

How long until the Caf consensus on Murtough does a 180 and becomes that he had a good window because he managed to pull off all these panic signings in the last few weeks?

I don’t think anyone will say Murtough did a good job this summer unless we bring in FDJ, another striker, a RB and manage to sell AWB or Dalot. But how likely is that. Being pragmatic (even though most of us don’t love the Casemiro deal) doesn’t mean we give Murtough a pass at all. It won’t erase this crappy transfer window or that this was clearly a panic buy, or that the Glazers may be sanctioning a mad spending spree just to ease the pressure.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

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[UnitedSofa]

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But apparently their “shite” according to no experience CAF posters

 

[Tom Van Persie]

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[Foxbatt]

But apparently their “shite” according to no experience CAF posters

They are shite no matter what. If he is the DOF, then he has to hold his ground. He is the boss of ETH and not the other way around.

 

[UnitedSofa]

They are shite no matter what. If he is the DOF, then he has to hold his ground. He is the boss of ETH and not the other way around.

Bit hard to define a way of playing football when you don’t know how your new manager wants to play his brand of football.

So why not for the first transfer window let EtH have his own targets and work together on that before working towards a more collaborative effort between your DoF and the Head Scouts (which we currently don’t have, because y’know we sacked them) and the manager next summer.

I think that would be the more logical way of doing things.

 

[SmallCaine]

Bit hard to define a way of playing football when you don’t know how your new manager wants to play his brand of football.

So why not for the first transfer window let EtH have his own targets and work together on that before working towards a more collaborative effort between your DoF and the Head Scouts (which we currently don’t have, because y’know we sacked them) and the manager next summer.

I think that would be the more logical way of doing things.

Except he hired the said manager, he led the interviews and clearly had a major say. If he doesn't have a clue how the guy he hired wants to do things, things based on which he was hired, it doesn't say much about his competence does it.

 

[Ash86]

But apparently their “shite” according to no experience CAF posters

Funny thing. They've argued about another CB? The Torres saga has been here for a while, even before that Europa League final i think.
So in these two years, at least, we do sign 2 center defenders for a 100 mil or something. And these two "competent" managers can not convince first their superiors and then their subordinates that it's a right move?
Honestly i rest my case, if there is any truth in that, those two a beyond any help whatsoever. I mean both of their position require the skill to actually persuade people.

 

[Greck]

But apparently their “shite” according to no experience CAF posters

Yeah Poor Fletcher and Murtough being bullied into decisions by an employee they were interviewing just months ago. They even recommended signings that one time.

This is the kind of contradictory thinking and circular madness one needs to defend incompetence. Li-ter-ally just months ago they were going to fix the evil manager transfer monopoly. Their accountability changes every 3 months.

 

[hobbers]

But apparently their “shite” according to no experience CAF posters

Why would championing a move for Pau Torres cancel out the monstrous magnitude of their shiteness?

 

[sglowrider]

Bit hard to define a way of playing football when you don’t know how your new manager wants to play his brand of football.

So why not for the first transfer window let EtH have his own targets and work together on that before working towards a more collaborative effort between your DoF and the Head Scouts (which we currently don’t have, because y’know we sacked them) and the manager next summer.

I think that would be the more logical way of doing things.

100% correct.

 

[Greck]

Bit hard to define a way of playing football when you don’t know how your new manager wants to play his brand of football.

So why not for the first transfer window let EtH have his own targets and work together on that before working towards a more collaborative effort between your DoF and the Head Scouts (which we currently don’t have, because y’know we sacked them) and the manager next summer.

I think that would be the more logical way of doing things.

Read this back to yourself.

 

[Posh Red]

Bit hard to define a way of playing football when you don’t know how your new manager wants to play his brand of football.

So why not for the first transfer window let EtH have his own targets and work together on that before working towards a more collaborative effort between your DoF and the Head Scouts (which we currently don’t have, because y’know we sacked them) and the manager next summer.

I think that would be the more logical way of doing things.

I dunno if I’m being thick, but was Murtough involved in the manager selection process?

Whichever way you look at it, this still doesn’t look good for me. You should have an idea of the type of manager you’re hiring, and at least a half decent idea of

Read this back to yourself.

You would like to think some planning was involved in which manager to bring in, and as an extension to that, what type of players might make sense going forward. Or am I not thinking straight? I am quite drunk.

 

[Dion]

This is another classic example of why you don't employ someone with no recruitment or analyst experience to a role which is almost entirely recruitment based.

Another under-qualified Glazer stooge out of his depth.

 

[tenpoless]

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Pau Torres had been a target for years. So if it's true it only shows how hard it is to identify new targets for them which means either they're shite or there were not enough available players in the market.

 

[Foxbatt]

Bit hard to define a way of playing football when you don’t know how your new manager wants to play his brand of football.

So why not for the first transfer window let EtH have his own targets and work together on that before working towards a more collaborative effort between your DoF and the Head Scouts (which we currently don’t have, because y’know we sacked them) and the manager next summer.

I think that would be the more logical way of doing things.

I presume that you don't even understand what you have written and what the job of a DOF?
It's not the Manager's job to decide what style of football he wants to play. It's the club's and they hire a manager who can play the way they want to play. This is why we have been in this mess. We get LVG and then Jose. Then Ole to ETH.
If Murtough has to let ETH decide what kind of football he wants to play there is no point of a DOF. Woodward could have done it.

 

[spiriticon]

I am going to nickname this guy Mr 'Not for Sale'.

When transfer enquiries come in from other clubs, the 'Not for Sale' autoreply fires off and his laptop self destructs.

 

[JimiboyX]

All these data analysts, sports scientists, scouts, DOF, technical director and deputy DOF only for us to unearth a 30 year old DM from Real Madrid on crazy money.

It feels like we’ve finally woken up and realised that a modern football club needs people in these roles, but we still don’t know what these roles are, how they fit together or what qualifications someone needs to do them. Baby steps, I suppose.

It's almost like Chelsea signed a 31 year old defender for £35million and gave him over £200k a week just because they needed a solution for the here and now.

Not every signing has to be a youngster with resale value. Sometimes a here and now solution is needed. That's the situation we find ourselves in.

I broadly agree, although it feels far too much like the rule rather than the exception in our case.

I’d also argue that Chelsea’s recent recruitment is the second most nonsensical in the big six after ours. They’re shoving a ton of square pegs into round holes in attack and also ignoring problem positions. They just look joined up compared to us.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

The state of our football structure is so rotten now that I can't even get excited about signing Casemiro. This signing looks like panic buy again without proper plan especially he is already 30 coming with big fees and wages. We have been burnt too many time to believe this time will be different.

 

[Kostov]

The state of our football structure is so rotten now that I can't even get excited about signing Casemiro. This signing looks like panic buy again without proper plan especially he is already 30 coming with big fees and wages. We have been burnt too many time to believe this time will be different.

By the time we find him an adequate partner Casemiro will we 35 and 2 years past his best. I guess our strategy is to replace Milan as Real Madrid's retirement home.

 

[Cassidy]

Pau Torres had been a target for years. So if it's true it only shows how hard it is to identify new targets for them which means either they're shite or there were not enough available players in the market.

He is also weak as piss

 

[Frank Grimes]

If this fecker fell in a barrel of tits he'd come up sucking his thumb. Tragic.

 

[Devil_forever]

€100m for Anthony? Is this the director of football we waited all these years for? This guy is a fecking fraud. Useless cnut.

 

[Greck]

€100m for Anthony? Is this the director of football we waited all these years for? This guy is a fecking fraud. Useless cnut.

It's because we sat on our arses telling ourselves the same squad came 2nd. We have to pay late window tax on top of the ridiculous United tax. Going to file waiting to get thrashed by brentford under the same as waiting for Ole to get trashed to sack him. These guys always wait for us to hit rock bottom to know things aren't going to turn around. It's so reactive.

 

[0le]

First of all, lets backtrack a bit. Since Moyes's shitshow almost 10 years ago most of MU fans and posters here i'm sure were all like okay, we need a rebuild. It's okay if it'll take some time, we need to sign players with hunger, who wants to be here etc, etc.

Then stuff happens. And MU is going for these short term fixes. And everyone suddenly, hm, well that makes sense. No it does not. Yes we can't get FDJ, but there are literally a ton of players we can get or could, players that fit the profile. Now deviating from these profile or a strategy, principle, heck even philosophy might, just might yield a better results in current year, but ultimately we will be worse.

That's what i am saying, our problem all these years always, always remained the same, and it's exactly short-fixing everything, every single time. And what, how that's been working out? Not great, right?

I, for one, am tired of this. I actually don't want United to be in CL-spot again this season, if it'll meant we will drop to 7th place or whatever as it was with all, all of our managers post-Moyes, all of them went on and managed to get United to the CL spot, sometimes even with a sort of weak title challenge or something and then in a year, in a two, we were back at being 6,7th.
What do you think is the reason for that? Not a personified "reason" like a Glazers, obviously they are the only common denominator here, but the reason in terms of strategy, decisions? It's exactly short-fixing the things, building something for this year, the next one, not for the next 5-10 years.

That's a main point. As for others. My thinking is that we don't need top players actually. We need good players that will want to be here. There are more that enough of good players around. And many of them will be delighted to go here. Why?
Well simply because they do go to Wolves, West Hams, to Napolis and Leverkusens, to just pick something spanish yourself, does not really matter. Not all of them are playing in CL, not all of the time, not every year. And obviously we do have a huge leg up on all of them because of the pedigree and the money.

Name them.

Most of you post is waffle too. Long term planning does not exclude you from signing older players as well.

 

[I’m loving my life]

It's because we sat on our arses telling ourselves the same squad came 2nd. We have to pay late window tax on top of the ridiculous United tax. Am honestly going to file waiting to get thrashed by brentford under the same as waiting for Ole to get trashed to sack him. These guys always wait for us to hit rock bottom to know things aren't going to turn around. It's so reactive.

The guy simply needs ejecting from his job today.

Fans are appeased because Casemiro/beating Liverpool and allowing the club to continue fecking ETH over. For example, where’s the Glazer threads gone which were prominent on the forum after Brentford?

Watch us lose to Southampton and the issue will resurface.

 

[Greck]

Name them.

Most of you post is waffle too. Long term planning does not exclude you from signing older players as well.

At least you admit asking the club to scout FDJ alternatives is as productive as asking random posters on redcafe.

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

He really should be sacked after this window. The hiring and firing of Rangnick was his first feck up but this window has been something else. No room at this club for learning on the job, making it up as you go, learning from your mistakes or whatever the feck you want to label this failed appointment.

 

[Thisistheone]

Other clubs across Europe must laugh at us. 10 years of Woodward and now this guy.

 

[devilish]

Other clubs across Europe must laugh at us. 10 years of Woodward and now this guy.

They do.

 

[NK86]

If this fecker fell in a barrel of tits he'd come up sucking his thumb. Tragic.

I am definitely going to use this somehow

 

[VP89]

If this fecker fell in a barrel of tits he'd come up sucking his thumb. Tragic.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Antony's interview shows how much Murtough fecked up this summer.
Antony said that he informed Ajax during last season rhat he wants to leave. And now they are not letting him go because they can't buy replacement. Because we waited August to start bidding.
If we have started bidding in June, this would be over month ago.

 

[Keane's Prawn Sandwich]

He really should be sacked after this window. The hiring and firing of Rangnick was his first feck up but this window has been something else. No room at this club for learning on the job, making it up as you go, learning from your mistakes or whatever the feck you want to label this failed appointment.

I doubt he will be, they'll use enough PR spin to make it out that this window was a massive success cause we got Casemiro. Arnold won't fire him cause he went with him to Barcelona that time, so he is complicit in this too. The Chuckle Brothers will survive until a new owner comes in I reckon.

 

[The Boy]

Antony's interview shows how much Murtough fecked up this summer.
Antony said that he informed Ajax during last season rhat he wants to leave. And now they are not letting him go because they can't buy replacement. Because we waited August to start bidding.
If we have started bidding in June, this would be over month ago.

Is that Murtough's fault though?

I'm just guessing, but I would imagine the Glazer's did not signed off on a budget big enough for FDJ and Antony back in June and ETH said De Jong was his priority.

Now you're obviously not getting FDJ and the first teo gams of the season showed how badly you needed investment the Glazers loosened the purse strings so you could bring in a midfield plan b in Casemiro and an attacker so now Murtough can bid. I think the biggest issue here is too much interference from the Glazers as always.

I'm sure the lack of clarity around Ronaldo hasn't helped much either, but I don't think this Murtough and Fletcher's fault and is probably a good reason why noone from the outside got the job and after years of "looking" it went to an insider.