The John Murtough Era

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The Athletic article today suggests Rabiot was the alternative to De Jong as some of us thought at the time. The window was a joke. Let's just hope the next ones are better.
Yeah.

There is a lot of worrying stuff in that article. It tries hard to sell Murtough's changes as positive e.g., streamlining reporting lines for scouts, using data and analytics. However, it's content shows that none of that is being used in practice.

When you see how United jumped from target to target, how player profiles wildly diverged, how budgets seemed to change from week to week, it's hard to have faith in Murtough.

Whitwell's piece just comes across as another one of the many Athletic articles about Man Utd's supposedly awesome new structure. Not even a diagram this time, maybe they're even losing faith in how often they can write the same story and expect it to be believed.
 

TheReligion

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Yeah.

There is a lot of worrying stuff in that article. It tries hard to sell Murtough's changes as positive e.g., streamlining reporting lines for scouts, using data and analytics. However, it's content shows that none of that is being used in practice.

When you see how United jumped from target to target, how player profiles wildly diverged, how budgets seemed to change from week to week, it's hard to have faith in Murtough.
And I think this is the key detail many people seem to be missing. The set up has just changed and certain roles are still being filled. Even Ten Hag himself only arrived in June.

To utilise the methods Murtough is said to have now brought in, and get the most from overhauling recruitment, you need time. Time to gather the data and time for these new processes to bare their fruits.

This window was always going to be difficult as we had to do something without the new set up fully in action and as such that’s why I suspect we did involve Ten Hag a bit more in the process whilst committing to De Jong, Martinez and Antony at his request.

The real test of what Murtough is doing will be in January and next summer.
 

Leftback99

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Yeah.

There is a lot of worrying stuff in that article. It tries hard to sell Murtough's changes as positive e.g., streamlining reporting lines for scouts, using data and analytics. However, it's content shows that none of that is being used in practice.

When you see how United jumped from target to target, how player profiles wildly diverged, how budgets seemed to change from week to week, it's hard to have faith in Murtough.

Whitwell's piece just comes across as another one of the many Athletic articles about Man Utd's supposedly awesome new structure. Not even a diagram this time, maybe they're even losing faith in how often they can write the same story and expect it to be believed.
Yeah we're years behind others on scouting and analytics etc.

The other worrying thing it mentions as I've said myself, where did the additional money come from? Because it won't be the Glazers pockets. There will be cutbacks somewhere at least.
 

Highfather_24

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That's not how we work. Not saying it's wrong or right but we have always supported managers in all possible ways. Guess, that's one of our selling points when trying to hire someone in.
And what happens if ETH has to leave after 3 years? Overhaul the entire squad again? That's not sustainable.

All modern setups have a DOF controlling the squad building/recruitment, so that there's an continuity and overall vision, even if managers change.
 

devilish

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Murtough's reign was a parody. Ole was kept past his date. He then he hired Rangnick, a sporting director in all but name (he spent like 3 years in the past decade as a manager) whose style was completely against our team strengths promising him a consultant role when all is over. When the season ended and it was Rangnick's time to shine he was fired. Then we spent an entire summer chasing FDJ only to end up throwing money at Real for their 30 year old reserve. We overspent on most of our transfers, he was unable to sell any alternative targets to ETH and was only able to sell 3 players which included Garner and Chong on peanuts. Woodward's fixer proved to be worse that Woodward himself.
 

Yakuza_devils

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Murtough didn't show any signs of a competent DOF at all in this window. He totally relied on ETH for everything from scouting, signing, plan for rebuild to style of play.

The good news is he might has a very competent manager that could save his job and make him look half competent.
 

Rightnr

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There are either some very, very gullible people on here or actual paid shills for the Glazers.

Anyone who thinks we had a good window probably thinks Boris Johnson did a good job. Clueless thinking.
 

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It might be a case of new people bedding in, etc, but the next few windows have to be less chaotic .
 

tjb

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There are either some very, very gullible people on here or actual paid shills for the Glazers.

Anyone who thinks we had a good window probably thinks Boris Johnson did a good job. Clueless thinking.
A good window is based on transfers....look at other teams and judge accordingly. We seem to be the only team in the league that our transfer team is analyzed and scrutinized. Have City bought defenders because of injury prone players, yes. Have Liverpool and Chelsea had panic buys...yes. It's the market, you react. People seem to think players and transfers are this simple process that just occurs and is timed accordingly. A lot of transfers happen in August, a lot of transfers are responses to what occurs on the pitch, lots of speculations occur in a window, transfer teams need time to scout and pool information.....yet we signed 6 players with good reputations. We signed players the manager wanted and players who are going to have a massive impact on the team. Whether the source came from the manager or not, the fact is Murtough had to negotiate and get the deals over the line, he did that. In the case of other teams, I'd assume Guardiola and Klopp have a massive input in transfers too. if their target chose not to come or they had issues negotiating, they would also look at other targets.
Reports all suggested that we were looking to fill all the positions we actually filled throughout the summer, yet it seems much easier to complain about a success that had a difficult road than to actually praise their ability to react. I'm sorry, but this narrative of failure is negative and feels like shifting goalposts to suit an agenda. If we had not signed these players, what would you have said then. The better question is, given the circumstances we were dealt with, what would have been a successful window? What would have been the best result? Did other teams achieve that? Yes, we've been poor in prior years in buying and selling the right players, but don't use that to sour a window that any other club would have deemed successful no matter how many memes have been created concerning the players or the price. It's United, we get talked about, speculated about and scrutinized. Our stories get clicks, as United fan, you should know that and not gullibly believe every negative article or story about the club.
 
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Mickeza

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Its literally the DOF's job to overrule transfers that dont make sense for the club. Its not to blindly go for every target the manager wants.
Arnautovic made perfect sense from a footballing perspective. How the feck anyone can watch rashford up front at Leicester and not think we could do with a player who can play with his back to goal still baffles me. He’d have started every game this season because martial is injured.
 

RaddyRed

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Murtough's reign was a parody. Ole was kept past his date. He then he hired Rangnick, a sporting director in all but name (he spent like 3 years in the past decade as a manager) whose style was completely against our team strengths promising him a consultant role when all is over. When the season ended and it was Rangnick's time to shine he was fired. Then we spent an entire summer chasing FDJ only to end up throwing money at Real for their 30 year old reserve. We overspent on most of our transfers, he was unable to sell any alternative targets to ETH and was only able to sell 3 players which included Garner and Chong on peanuts. Woodward's fixer proved to be worse that Woodward himself.
As frustrating as this summer was, Casemiro is far from a reserve. He is one of the best midfielders in the world game and we needed him more than FDJ.
 

tjb

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Arnautovic made perfect sense from a footballing perspective. How the feck anyone can watch rashford up front at Leicester and not think we could do with a player who can play with his back to goal still baffles me. He’d have started every game this season because martial is injured.
I don't think they realize that he would have been a third choice striker. we would still have gotten Antony.
Same thing goes for Rabiot. He was 17m, we would clearly have signed another CM.
The biggest lie this window is that 120m budget and the fact that anyone believes it despite all the chasing we did of FDJ really shows how quickly fans on this forum are to jump on the club.
I've seen clubs wait all summer to sign high profile players. In fact we got both Rooney and Berbatov done on deadline day. We chose to shift gears to sign Casemiro and clearly had a list of alternatives because we moved quickly, yet still there are complaints. The only thing I'll say the club needs to start doing is to have a complete shut out of real transfer news coming out, because fans can't seem to understand the process and the fact that these things may not occur as expected. Instead of Arnold and Murtough being open with the fans, keeping them in the dark is a better solution
 

Suedesi

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Murtough is a fecking idiot, anyone who can't see that is blind.

The job of the DOF is to plan and to be strategic about squad build. United needed a midfielder last season. With Pogba, Matic, Lingard and Mata leaving, you could argue United needed at least 3 players in midfield. We didn't spend anything in January to leave dry powder for the new incoming manager, and we essentially torpedoed Rangnick's appointment in the process. So come the end of last season, does United move quickly to secure a few good midfield players, or do we waste all of summer chasing De Jong without even realizing that he doesn't want to join us in the first place?

Then, after the mauling at Brentford, our illustrious DOF realizes that the squads needs overhauling because the previous 12-months United were on target for the quadruple. :houllier: :houllier: :houllier:

Murtough step aside son, the job's too big for you
 

Suedesi

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I don't think they realize that he would have been a third choice striker. we would still have gotten Antony.
Same thing goes for Rabiot. He was 17m, we would clearly have signed another CM.
The biggest lie this window is that 120m budget and the fact that anyone believes it despite all the chasing we did of FDJ really shows how quickly fans on this forum are to jump on the club.
I've seen clubs wait all summer to sign high profile players. In fact we got both Rooney and Berbatov done on deadline day. We chose to shift gears to sign Casemiro and clearly had a list of alternatives because we moved quickly, yet still there are complaints. The only thing I'll say the club needs to start doing is to have a complete shut out of real transfer news coming out, because fans can't seem to understand the process and the fact that these things may not occur as expected. Instead of Arnold and Murtough being open with the fans, keeping them in the dark is a better solution
The club officials didn't even do their jobs, really. They panicked after losing, protests, and potential new owners appeared. And then they wanted to sign Arnautovic and Rabiot. Give me a fecking break
 

Shai-Hulud

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Murtough is a fecking idiot, anyone who can't see that is blind.

The job of the DOF is to plan and to be strategic about squad build. United needed a midfielder last season. With Pogba, Matic, Lingard and Mata leaving, you could argue United needed at least 3 players in midfield. We didn't spend anything in January to leave dry powder for the new incoming manager, and we essentially torpedoed Rangnick's appointment in the process. So come the end of last season, does United move quickly to secure a few good midfield players, or do we waste all of summer chasing De Jong without even realizing that he doesn't want to join us in the first place?

Then, after the mauling at Brentford, our illustrious DOF realizes that the squads needs overhauling because the previous 12-months United were on target for the quadruple. :houllier: :houllier: :houllier:

Murtough step aside son, the job's too big for you
Agreed. The Glazers and their stooges are as inept as ever.
 

Leftback99

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I don't think they realize that he would have been a third choice striker. we would still have gotten Antony.
Same thing goes for Rabiot. He was 17m, we would clearly have signed another CM.

The biggest lie this window is that 120m budget and the fact that anyone believes it despite all the chasing we did of FDJ really shows how quickly fans on this forum are to jump on the club.
I've seen clubs wait all summer to sign high profile players. In fact we got both Rooney and Berbatov done on deadline day. We chose to shift gears to sign Casemiro and clearly had a list of alternatives because we moved quickly, yet still there are complaints. The only thing I'll say the club needs to start doing is to have a complete shut out of real transfer news coming out, because fans can't seem to understand the process and the fact that these things may not occur as expected. Instead of Arnold and Murtough being open with the fans, keeping them in the dark is a better solution
Why didn't we sign another midfielder and striker instead then?
 

tjb

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The club officials didn't even do their jobs, really. They panicked after losing, protests, and potential new owners appeared. And then they wanted to sign Arnautovic and Rabiot. Give me a fecking break
So we didn't sign Malacia, Martinez and Eriksen before mid July. We weren't chasing FDJ. There weren't reports of us looking for a forward all summer.
If they didn't their job, then how were these things occuring before the season started.
In fact, wasn't it reported that they were waiting for the FDJ deal to go through before getting the forward transfer over the line.

FDJ's transfer didn't go through and we found out that it would not be happening at the beginning of August.
We lost a few games and saw how bad both Fred and Mctominay were and how light we were in the 9 position with Martial out.
We then tried to make some quick adjustments like both Pool and Chelsea have done, signing cheap transfers so that we can sign the bigger ones without taking out too much.
We see the fan backlash over Arnautovic and we don't move forward, however due to trying to keep our wage structure in tact, we don't sign Rabiot ( who was clearly the Mctominay alternative). I don't think Eriksen as an 8 was the plan.
We sign Casemiro ( for FDJ) and Antony.

Fan protests didn't do anything and I love the way people here think a few silly complaints caused the Glazers to flinch. I don't like them as much as they next guy, but those purse strings have always been open, they money was always mismanaged. It didn't panic them. We've had worse starts to the season. That money was always there this window. Simple.
 

tjb

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Why didn't we sign another midfielder and striker instead then?
Because we ended up signing Casemiro and spent 85m on Antony.
Rabiot would have cost us 17m, we signed Casemiro for 65m, clearly there's a difference there
We got rid of massive wages, cleared a lot of deadwood, signed 5 starting players, whilst not having to sell previous first 11 players ( giving us depth).
Our budget isn't completely endless. We literally signed 6 players this window.
With the second highest spending in the league, what more did you want

Now please do an analysis of Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea's DOFs because I want to know what makes one competent.
 
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Leftback99

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Because we ended up signing Casemiro and spent 85m on Antony.
Rabiot would have cost us 17m, we signed Casemiro for 65m, clearly there's a difference there
Yes, the funds available clearly changed or we wouldn't have been chasing such players in the first place. Antony would have been done at the same time as Martinez.

We were never going to buy 3 midfielders this summer and have 4 on the bench.
 

Amir

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That's not how we work. Not saying it's wrong or right but we have always supported managers in all possible ways. Guess, that's one of our selling points when trying to hire someone in.
That partly negates the idea of a DOF, if it's just about supporting the manager as much as we can.
 

tjb

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Yes, the funds available clearly changed or we wouldn't have been chasing such players in the first place. Antony would have been done at the same time as Martinez.

We were never going to buy 3 midfielders this summer and have 4 on the bench.
Or the money we planned to use for FDJ were reallocated.
Antony was always in the cards, but we delayed it because we felt FDJ would be more of a priority and we didn't know how much that deal would cost.
If FDJ signed for 100m, we would not have gotten Antony and probably have sought out Gakpo instead.

That is actually good planning and shows that we were managing a budget this window, not the opposite.
 

Suedesi

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Or the money we planned to use for FDJ were reallocated.
Antony was always in the cards, but we delayed it because we felt FDJ would be more of a priority and we didn't know how much that deal would cost.
If FDJ signed for 100m, we would not have gotten Antony and probably have sought out Gakpo instead.

That is actually good planning and shows that we were managing a budget this window, not the opposite.
That's not planning - there's nothing strategic about United's recruitment.

Planning is Real Madrid selling Casemiro for 80m Euros and buying a like-for-like replacement who's 8 years younger for 88m. Factor in the lower wages for Tchoumaeini, and the deal is amazing.

Planning is Bayern Munchen strengthening their already stacked team by getting a RB and Midfielder from AJAX for a paltry 20m - Ryan Gravenberch and Noussair Mazraoui

This is what a competent DOF is supposed to do - line up sensible deals and plan them 12-18 months in advance, have contingencies and execute when the opportunity arises.

We certainly don't need Murtough to get Antony and Martinex for 160m - anyone can do that, once - the goal is to create a process that is market-calibrated, sustainable and repeatable.
 

Big Ben Foster

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That's not planning - there's nothing strategic about United's recruitment.

Planning is Real Madrid selling Casemiro for 80m Euros and buying a like-for-like replacement who's 8 years younger for 88m. Factor in the lower wages for Tchoumaeini, and the deal is amazing.

Planning is Bayern Munchen strengthening their already stacked team by getting a RB and Midfielder from AJAX for a paltry 20m - Ryan Gravenberch and Noussair Mazraoui

This is what a competent DOF is supposed to do - line up sensible deals and plan them 12-18 months in advance, have contingencies and execute when the opportunity arises.

We certainly don't need Murtough to get Antony and Martinex for 160m - anyone can do that, once - the goal is to create a process that is market-calibrated, sustainable and repeatable.
Great post. A lot of people can't grasp the concept of strategy and proactive planning.
 

Suedesi

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As frustrating as this summer was, Casemiro is far from a reserve. He is one of the best midfielders in the world game and we needed him more than FDJ.
Agreed - but even there, United stumbled onto him after Rabiot's wage demands proved too much. He was available all summer long by the way

Those familiar with the mood at Carrington after the 4-0 defeat to Brentford reported a spike in activity, with the message spreading in the industry that United executives, led by football director John Murtough, appreciated Ten Hag needed significant backing to have a chance of succeeding.

A group of senior players told the club hierarchy that reinforcements were required — noble rhetoric, you might argue, given some of their places would be at jeopardy.

Chief executive Richard Arnold became more visible and subsequent actions populated the belief that Joel Glazer was suddenly persuaded to allocate more of the club’s money to transfers.

That Tuesday following the result in London, which left United bottom of the table, a delegation flew to Madrid for face-to-face talks on Casemiro.

It was (Tom) Keane who flew with Murtough to Spain three days after the Brentford defeat, in a meeting set up before that fateful game, to negotiate on Casemiro.

Talks were concluded within 24 hours and contrary to reports in Spain, which claimed the 30-year-old was doubling his salary, he joined United on a slight raise to his terms at Real Madrid, where he was in the top bracket of earners. His contract includes a cut back down to his previous level if United do not qualify for next season’s Champions League.

The appeal for Casemiro was for a new challenge. He informed Florentino Perez of his wishes after the Champions League final and again when he returned from holiday. Real reluctantly agreed to sanction his sale and agents made United aware.
 

tjb

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That's what's annoying me about the complaints.
Big transfers are frustrating most of the time and take work. They can take an entire window to get done.
We've spent so many years getting easy transfers to come through and getting very little value for it.
You don't need much time or money to get Fred, Herrera, Bailly, Lindelof, Blind, Rojo etc through the door.
However you do need to do this for high impact players a lot of the time, particularly when they are in their prime.
We did this for FDJ. Barca's financial issues reared its head. We stayed in there because we believed we could still push it over the line with work.
It didn't happen. We signed Casemiro instead as he was available. We then used the extra money budgeted to sign Antony.
This in addition to Eriksen, Martinez and Malacia gave us 5 new players who will start in our first team.
For all these players, we had to negotiate transfer fees, add ons and get them into the team.
Yet somehow, other teams, who didn't sign as many first team players, would have sacked their DOFs for the window.
Despite clearly trying to push all these deals through from day one and ETH needing time to see how good or bad the squad was, our DOF should have overruled him and signed people the manager didn't want.

Mane, Salah, Thiago and Konate all had links to the Bundesliga. Do you also think Klopp did not request for Allison, Van Dijk and Fabinho....or do you think their DOF overruled him on those transfers.

Pep signed Walker, Cancelo, Ederson, Rodri, Grealish, Mahrez, Gundogan, Bernardo Silva and Haaland. Despite having players in the team prior. People always talk nonsense in regard to City building the team for Pep. He didn't like the CB's or the full backs he recieved. He felt the need to add way more to the midfield and attack too. Do you think Pep was overruled? Or don't you think the DOF at City got transfers based on Pep's requests.

Yet at United, people complain when we overrule, yet they complain when that doesn't occur either. Like City, we have an injured player in Martial ( City have injured CB's). We looked for a temporary back up to allow us have depth in the position as it get exposed ( City signed Akanji). Yet City are resourceful and we are panicking. Liverpool didn't just sign Arthur to cover midfield.

I'm saying all this to say. It seems like our fans don't even know what they are complaining about. They have no clue what goes on at the club and no clue about the actual jobs they are analyzing. Yet they compare it to other clubs that they have no clue about either. It's easy to create negativity if you can just foster it out of conclusions that have no base. City's DOF's know what they're doing apparently. In 2017/18, they signed Mendy and Danilo whilst letting go of Sancho. In 19/20, they only signed Cancelo in August. If they had signed him earlier, he would have had a preseason and they might have won the league. They definitely should have also signed Kane. They wasted all summer and ended up losing the league. Ruben Dias was clearly signed way too late in 20/21, clearly terrible planning. Plus selling Sane to buy Ferran Torres was poor business. This is how our forum sounds with this IMO. Critical over things they have no clue about and always looking for the worst without actually seeing the good things.

We signed a right winger that we've been needing since 2014. We signed a DM that we've needed since 2018. We have a better centre back and left back than we had prior. We signed another creative player, whose versatility has now been used to plug the no.8 spot in midfield. We signed a back up for De Gea who is better on the ball. We let got of a lot of the negative players in the dressing room last season and cleared their wages.
 

tjb

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That's not planning - there's nothing strategic about United's recruitment.

Planning is Real Madrid selling Casemiro for 80m Euros and buying a like-for-like replacement who's 8 years younger for 88m. Factor in the lower wages for Tchoumaeini, and the deal is amazing.

Planning is Bayern Munchen strengthening their already stacked team by getting a RB and Midfielder from AJAX for a paltry 20m - Ryan Gravenberch and Noussair Mazraoui

This is what a competent DOF is supposed to do - line up sensible deals and plan them 12-18 months in advance, have contingencies and execute when the opportunity arises.

We certainly don't need Murtough to get Antony and Martinex for 160m - anyone can do that, once - the goal is to create a process that is market-calibrated, sustainable and repeatable.
Real Madrid just won the Champions League, Bayern already had a great squad. We needed a rebuild for a team who is not in the UCL and did NOT have players in roles that were needed. The same Real Madrid planned to get Mbappe in this summer and that didn't occur. If Camavinga and Tchouemeni don't end up being successful at Real, would we still call it good planning?

We are not as attractive in the market as we once were. We also don't have the benefit of being in the UCL and we were after players that we needed in those positions after changing the recruitment team and manager between February and May. Bayern and Real had the benefit of knowing their manager from the previous season, what they wanted and the list of type of players he wanted. The transfer window is not FIFA or football manager. How much did signing De Ligt cost Bayern? You could argue that us signing Malacia for 13m was good planning if we use individual examples, but that's not how things work. A few years ago Chelsea's recruitment team was always credited for know how to buy and sell, but these things change season to season based on the market, availability, club status and budget. How would you feel if you were a Spurs fan and only had Richarlison join this summer? It's not a cut and dry process and I don't know why people compare things they don't truly know about. It's one thing if Woodward was in charge and prior misdemeanors are used against him. However, he's not and picking and choosing the negative things to beat the club at this time just seems like complaining over nothing.
 

devilish

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As frustrating as this summer was, Casemiro is far from a reserve. He is one of the best midfielders in the world game and we needed him more than FDJ.
Unfortunately he is. Its evident that Real was building their side around Tchoaumeni and Camavinga and at age 30 its fair enough for Real to start thinking of phasing Casemiro out. Don't take me wrong, Casemiro left because United spent stupid money on him. Having said that its evident that Real was taking a new direction which didn't include Casemiro in their first team. Else there would have been no chance on earth that he would have left.
 

Greck

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Casemiro was our replacement for De Jong. They are not the same profile at all. Neither is Rabiot.
Oh lord, I might have a heart attack. Someone actually admitted we could have done better instead of doubling even tripling down. This is the whole point, learning from mistakes. Now in future they won't need the benefit of hindsight to know not to bank on situations with legal minefields and/or blatantly unreliable trade partners. The spanish megaclubs didn't just turn to cnuts this summer. They've always been crooked, never bet on their integrity.
 
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Leftback99

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Real Madrid just won the Champions League, Bayern already had a great squad. We needed a rebuild for a team who is not in the UCL and did NOT have players in roles that were needed. The same Real Madrid planned to get Mbappe in this summer and that didn't occur. If Camavinga and Tchouemeni don't end up being successful at Real, would we still call it good planning?

We are not as attractive in the market as we once were. We also don't have the benefit of being in the UCL and we were after players that we needed in those positions after changing the recruitment team and manager between February and May. Bayern and Real had the benefit of knowing their manager from the previous season, what they wanted and the list of type of players he wanted. The transfer window is not FIFA or football manager. How much did signing De Ligt cost Bayern? You could argue that us signing Malacia for 13m was good planning if we use individual examples, but that's not how things work. A few years ago Chelsea's recruitment team was always credited for know how to buy and sell, but these things change season to season based on the market, availability, club status and budget. How would you feel if you were a Spurs fan and only had Richarlison join this summer? It's not a cut and dry process and I don't know why people compare things they don't truly know about. It's one thing if Woodward was in charge and prior misdemeanors are used against him. However, he's not and picking and choosing the negative things to beat the club at this time just seems like complaining over nothing.
Spurs made numerous signings this summer, the majority in for pre season. Richarlison, Perisic, Bissouma, Lenglet, Spence, Forster. After a very succesful January window. That's what good planning looks like.
 

Yakuza_devils

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That's not planning - there's nothing strategic about United's recruitment.

Planning is Real Madrid selling Casemiro for 80m Euros and buying a like-for-like replacement who's 8 years younger for 88m. Factor in the lower wages for Tchoumaeini, and the deal is amazing.

Planning is Bayern Munchen strengthening their already stacked team by getting a RB and Midfielder from AJAX for a paltry 20m - Ryan Gravenberch and Noussair Mazraoui

This is what a competent DOF is supposed to do - line up sensible deals and plan them 12-18 months in advance, have contingencies and execute when the opportunity arises.

We certainly don't need Murtough to get Antony and Martinex for 160m - anyone can do that, once - the goal is to create a process that is market-calibrated, sustainable and repeatable.
Very good post. People praising Murtough for spending like drunk sailor and totally rely on the manager for everything is insane.

Agree 100% that signing Antony and Martinez for 160M, Eriksen free, Casimero surplus to requirement in RM with 60M and Malacia are easy. We don't need a competent DOF or long term planning to do these.

Not forgetting we also planned for weird signings like Arnautovic, Rabiot, Brobery, Gakpo, and the likes. In short, we do not have a long term plan. We are so inept that we sack Rangnick - advisor and our head scouts shortly before our major rebuild window.
 

hobbers

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Jun 24, 2013
Messages
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Our transfer window shambles was exactly how it looked. Clueless feckers thinking it was fine to plod into the season with McFred and VDB as the only options, sitting on a terminally stalled transfer for 2 months, and digging heels in out of sheer desperation.

And then panic buying after Brentford with no strategy or thought. Whether Casemiro is a hit or not, the window was a fecking shambles for a club that knew it needed to recruit 2 long term signings in midfield, even if the supposed football director was ignorant of the need.

It's only because of fan backlash and Rabiot's mum that we're sat here with Antony now. Because without that we'd have signed Arnautovich and Rabiot instead, and not gone in again for Antony.
 

Demaw

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That's not planning - there's nothing strategic about United's recruitment.

Planning is Real Madrid selling Casemiro for 80m Euros and buying a like-for-like replacement who's 8 years younger for 88m. Factor in the lower wages for Tchoumaeini, and the deal is amazing.

Planning is Bayern Munchen strengthening their already stacked team by getting a RB and Midfielder from AJAX for a paltry 20m - Ryan Gravenberch and Noussair Mazraoui

This is what a competent DOF is supposed to do - line up sensible deals and plan them 12-18 months in advance, have contingencies and execute when the opportunity arises.

We certainly don't need Murtough to get Antony and Martinex for 160m - anyone can do that, once - the goal is to create a process that is market-calibrated, sustainable and repeatable.
Sadly you are right, they nearly squared out with casemiro and Tch, and 8 years younger. Any good thinking DOF would have had lined up antony a year before.
 

Greck

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Our transfer window shambles was exactly how it looked. Clueless feckers thinking it was fine to plod into the season with McFred and VDB as the only options, sitting on a terminally stalled transfer for 2 months, and digging heels in out of sheer desperation.

And then panic buying after Brentford with no strategy or thought. Whether Casemiro is a hit or not, the window was a fecking shambles for a club that knew it needed to recruit 2 long term signings in midfield, even if the supposed football director was ignorant of the need.

It's only because of fan backlash and Rabiot's mum that we're sat here with Antony now. Because without that we'd have signed Arnautovich and Rabiot instead, and not gone in again for Antony.
I agree, we should have planned better. God knows what the Glazers have gone and mortgaged to get that 200m. I'm surprised no one is even worried, I guess the big shiny transfers justifies the complacence that led to it. People need to stop bootlicking and allow others to actually ask questions of those who have been entrusted the wellbeing of the club. Everyone must feel the scrutiny so the complacency doesn't repeat.

Weeks ago it was brought up that we were heading for a late window panic splurge situation exactly as we saw in 2013 (or whenever), it was brought up that the FDJ situation wasn't heading for a favourable resolution because of all the moving parts, these people aren't seers who can look into the future. They just have common sense and basic amounts of foresight. They were called spoilt and negative. Some people need to sit still and let others ask questions. This is how leaders are supposed to be scrutinized or held accountable so standards don't slip
 
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Tarrou

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yeah it's looking just as hapless as it was in Ole's reign, isn't it?

the only difference now is we actually have a really good manager

would not surprise me one bit of ETH walks some day though, once he's had enough of the clown-show
 

Ema_datsi

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A tip: Your posts would read so much better without the childish insults in every post.
Well I’m sorry that my language is not up to your high standards for this forum, or maybe it’s really that you don’t like what I have to say. With sanctimonious gatekeepers like you looking down their noses at us “childish” primitives deemed deserving of divine reprimand, is it any wonder why this fanbase is anything but united.

I’ll see myself out as you’ve intimated that I’m about as welcome here as the village vicar at a porn shoot. Besides, I’ve said all I have to say about Jack-off Joel and the Glazers’ ownership, which is the only issue that really matters at this club.

A tip: Instead of publicly chastising newbies with your condescending snark, be the adult in the room and use the DM feature to discuss writing quality if it’s of such concern to the staff.
 

ti vu

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A good window is based on transfers....look at other teams and judge accordingly. We seem to be the only team in the league that our transfer team is analyzed and scrutinized. Have City bought defenders because of injury prone players, yes. Have Liverpool and Chelsea had panic buys...yes. It's the market, you react. People seem to think players and transfers are this simple process that just occurs and is timed accordingly. A lot of transfers happen in August, a lot of transfers are responses to what occurs on the pitch, lots of speculations occur in a window, transfer teams need time to scout and pool information.....yet we signed 6 players with good reputations. We signed players the manager wanted and players who are going to have a massive impact on the team. Whether the source came from the manager or not, the fact is Murtough had to negotiate and get the deals over the line, he did that. In the case of other teams, I'd assume Guardiola and Klopp have a massive input in transfers too. if their target chose not to come or they had issues negotiating, they would also look at other targets.
Reports all suggested that we were looking to fill all the positions we actually filled throughout the summer, yet it seems much easier to complain about a success that had a difficult road than to actually praise their ability to react. I'm sorry, but this narrative of failure is negative and feels like shifting goalposts to suit an agenda. If we had not signed these players, what would you have said then. The better question is, given the circumstances we were dealt with, what would have been a successful window? What would have been the best result? Did other teams achieve that? Yes, we've been poor in prior years in buying and selling the right players, but don't use that to sour a window that any other club would have deemed successful no matter how many memes have been created concerning the players or the price. It's United, we get talked about, speculated about and scrutinized. Our stories get clicks, as United fan, you should know that and not gullibly believe every negative article or story about the club.
False.

Prime example is our last summer window. Failing to get a proper holding midfield singlehandedly expose the whole squad. Sancho Varane Ronaldo should have made our dealing the best right? Those with foresight about our midfield issue was naysayer, right? Look how reality had played out.

In comparison, 2006 summer window with only Carrick signing, changed our fortune. The building for that 2006 squad took place over several window.

Teams like Liverpool or Man City don't need huge quantity in one window as they have had complete squads. They may still get quality signings wrong but in no way ignoring their deficiency, and panic buying.

Chelsea was in irregular situation with Abramovic sanction, and forced sale of the club. We had no excuse to act like we did.
 

Suedesi

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Well I’m sorry that my language is not up to your high standards for this forum, or maybe it’s really that you don’t like what I have to say. With sanctimonious gatekeepers like you looking down their noses at us “childish” primitives deemed deserving of divine reprimand, is it any wonder why this fanbase is anything but united.

I’ll see myself out as you’ve intimated that I’m about as welcome here as the village vicar at a porn shoot. Besides, I’ve said all I have to say about Jack-off Joel and the Glazers’ ownership, which is the only issue that really matters at this club.

A tip: Instead of publicly chastising newbies with your condescending snark, be the adult in the room and use the DM feature to discuss writing quality if it’s of such concern to the staff.
I like your posting style - flair, panache, inoffensive - 2 out 3 ain't bad.
 

wolvored

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Jul 6, 2016
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That's not planning - there's nothing strategic about United's recruitment.

Planning is Real Madrid selling Casemiro for 80m Euros and buying a like-for-like replacement who's 8 years younger for 88m. Factor in the lower wages for Tchoumaeini, and the deal is amazing.

Planning is Bayern Munchen strengthening their already stacked team by getting a RB and Midfielder from AJAX for a paltry 20m - Ryan Gravenberch and Noussair Mazraoui

This is what a competent DOF is supposed to do - line up sensible deals and plan them 12-18 months in advance, have contingencies and execute when the opportunity arises.

We certainly don't need Murtough to get Antony and Martinex for 160m - anyone can do that, once - the goal is to create a process that is market-calibrated, sustainable and repeatable.
Murtough may or may not be shit in the end, but how could he do his job this window, when according to you it needs 12 to 18 month planning, when he started in Feb? Lets reserve judgement till he has 12 month planning in the job.
 

Suv666

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Messages
7,388
The actual work for Jan and next summer window should start now, that's what DoF should doing. We have a basic idea on what we need in the next window, we also have a manager who wants certain profile of players. Identify the players, lay the ground work for the future transfer.

First summer window can be excused with some reasons like head scouts were fired, we hired new manager who wanted specific players rather than specific profile of players. From now on there shouldn't be any excuse.
With the money Glazers have spend this summer I expect barren windows ahead.

Highly doubt we will spent anything in January.
 
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