The John Murtough Era

Suv666

Full Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
7,388
I don't understand why we don't poach the best scouts, negotiators and DOFs in Europe instead of trying to mould our current employees.
Its fecking lunacy that we expect Murtogh to learn on the job.
 

kunal18

Full Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
410
Location
Bengaluru
That's not planning - there's nothing strategic about United's recruitment.

Planning is Real Madrid selling Casemiro for 80m Euros and buying a like-for-like replacement who's 8 years younger for 88m. Factor in the lower wages for Tchoumaeini, and the deal is amazing.

Planning is Bayern Munchen strengthening their already stacked team by getting a RB and Midfielder from AJAX for a paltry 20m - Ryan Gravenberch and Noussair Mazraoui

This is what a competent DOF is supposed to do - line up sensible deals and plan them 12-18 months in advance, have contingencies and execute when the opportunity arises.

We certainly don't need Murtough to get Antony and Martinex for 160m - anyone can do that, once - the goal is to create a process that is market-calibrated, sustainable and repeatable.
Spot on. During Fergie Era, one of the reasons we could sustain success for such a long time was due to the smooth transitions from Robson-Keane-Carrick Yorke/Cole-Ruud-Saha/Rooney Stam/Rio/Vidic. We had planned for Pique/Evans to take over from Rio/Vidic , sometimes it doesn't pan out , but at least the intent and the planning is clear.
We were quite good at it at one point even without a DoF but seems there hasn't been any knowledge transfer post that era.
Also, the FDJ saga showed we haven't learned from earlier mistakes Fabregas/Vidal etc of chasing non targets for far too long.
I still don't understand what fee were we agreeing with Barcelona if the player wasn't moving and that brief of being "confident that deal will happen". It is comical.
 

TheReligion

Abusive
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
42,576
Location
Manchester
Murtough is a fecking idiot, anyone who can't see that is blind.

The job of the DOF is to plan and to be strategic about squad build. United needed a midfielder last season. With Pogba, Matic, Lingard and Mata leaving, you could argue United needed at least 3 players in midfield. We didn't spend anything in January to leave dry powder for the new incoming manager, and we essentially torpedoed Rangnick's appointment in the process. So come the end of last season, does United move quickly to secure a few good midfield players, or do we waste all of summer chasing De Jong without even realizing that he doesn't want to join us in the first place?

Then, after the mauling at Brentford, our illustrious DOF realizes that the squads needs overhauling because the previous 12-months United were on target for the quadruple. :houllier: :houllier: :houllier:

Murtough step aside son, the job's too big for you
On the point about De Jong. As suspected it’s been said we did have a deal with the agent and the player would come.
 

Highfather_24

Full Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
2,128
Arnautovic made perfect sense from a footballing perspective. How the feck anyone can watch rashford up front at Leicester and not think we could do with a player who can play with his back to goal still baffles me. He’d have started every game this season because martial is injured.
Yes his profile fits. But his age, quality and personality are also important factors to consider.
 

RkkMan

Full Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
2,084
Murtough's reign was a parody. Ole was kept past his date. He then he hired Rangnick, a sporting director in all but name (he spent like 3 years in the past decade as a manager) whose style was completely against our team strengths promising him a consultant role when all is over. When the season ended and it was Rangnick's time to shine he was fired. Then we spent an entire summer chasing FDJ only to end up throwing money at Real for their 30 year old reserve. We overspent on most of our transfers, he was unable to sell any alternative targets to ETH and was only able to sell 3 players which included Garner and Chong on peanuts. Woodward's fixer proved to be worse that Woodward himself.
If a Real Madrid "reserve"(which is a deplorably and utterly ridiculous statement to use describing a world class DM) can be one of the best players in a CL Final, a very key player in a La Liga winning season and MOTM in the UEFA Super Cup then it would be foolish for a midfield as previously bad as Utd's to not buy him if he's available no?
Also last time I checked players like Fernandinho and Makelele(who coincidentally left Madrid for Chelsea at 30) played at a high level well into their 30s. Casemiro unlike Bastian has no injury concerns and on the pitch just as good as he was 2-4yrs ago
Madrid selling him due to Tchouameni(whom we were never getting anyway) is irrelevant as they were happy to keep both until we swooped in
 

RkkMan

Full Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
2,084
That's not planning - there's nothing strategic about United's recruitment.

Planning is Real Madrid selling Casemiro for 80m Euros and buying a like-for-like replacement who's 8 years younger for 88m. Factor in the lower wages for Tchoumaeini, and the deal is amazing.

Planning is Bayern Munchen strengthening their already stacked team by getting a RB and Midfielder from AJAX for a paltry 20m - Ryan Gravenberch and Noussair Mazraoui

This is what a competent DOF is supposed to do - line up sensible deals and plan them 12-18 months in advance, have contingencies and execute when the opportunity arises.

We certainly don't need Murtough to get Antony and Martinex for 160m - anyone can do that, once - the goal is to create a process that is market-calibrated, sustainable and repeatable.
But when Liverpool do it for Nunez, Chelsea for Cucurella/Fofana or Spurs for Richarlison they get credit?
Very good post. People praising Murtough for spending like drunk sailor and totally rely on the manager for everything is insane.

Agree 100% that signing Antony and Martinez for 160M, Eriksen free, Casimero surplus to requirement in RM with 60M and Malacia are easy. We don't need a competent DOF or long term planning to do these.

Not forgetting we also planned for weird signings like Arnautovic, Rabiot, Brobery, Gakpo, and the likes. In short, we do not have a long term plan. We are so inept that we sack Rangnick - advisor and our head scouts shortly before our major rebuild window.
Yet "competent" DOFs overpaid for players like Nunez, Fofana, Cucurella, Kalvin Phillips(who's yet to play a game for City) and Richarlison and they get credited for it?
Signing Malacia/Eriksen is easy but buying a player from Ajax for £20m with a year left on his contract or a 30yr old Mane surplus to requirements at Liverpool with one year left on his deal is applauded while you criticize your own club for signing one of the best DMs ITW at 30 even if we overpaid due to a longer contract?
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
110,863
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Well I’m sorry that my language is not up to your high standards for this forum, or maybe it’s really that you don’t like what I have to say. With sanctimonious gatekeepers like you looking down their noses at us “childish” primitives deemed deserving of divine reprimand, is it any wonder why this fanbase is anything but united.

I’ll see myself out as you’ve intimated that I’m about as welcome here as the village vicar at a porn shoot. Besides, I’ve said all I have to say about Jack-off Joel and the Glazers’ ownership, which is the only issue that really matters at this club.

A tip: Instead of publicly chastising newbies with your condescending snark, be the adult in the room and use the DM feature to discuss writing quality if it’s of such concern to the staff.
Bye bye.
your post is somewhat ironic by the way
 

Mickeza

still gets no respect
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
10,311
Location
Deepthroating information to Howard Nurse.
Yes his profile fits. But his age, quality and personality are also important factors to consider.
He was a cheap player who fit the profile and had scored 13 goals last year. Outside of the two racist allegations his signing made perfect footballing sense and the squad would be far stronger with him in it. Instead we’re playing rashford up front who refuses to challenge for aerial duals and is completely unable to hold the ball up and link play. We didn’t have a budget for an Osimhen or a Toney - that was the reality. It also can’t be underestimated that ETH wanted shit houses - he obviously quickly identified how mentality fragile this squad is and wanted some players opposition fans hate to stop this team being so soft.
 
Last edited:

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
110,863
Location
Dublin, Ireland
The real test for Murtough is the next window where he’s active. Next window is where I judge him when he’s had time to plan ahead.
This window, in the end he’s done well

this window we fired head scouts
We switched type of profiles from ole ball to ETH
We bought 5 players who walk straight into the first team, all with the right skills and winning mindsets
We got rid of troublemakers from the squad
We hired arguably the best young coach in Europe and a great coaching team
We spent more money in this window than ever before
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
58,225
Casemiro a “30 year old reserve”

:lol: Behave @devilish
I can't understand the outrage behind that. First of all it was one tiny phrase in an entire post which conveniently had been ignored. Secondly its because its true. Real's CM pair was set to be Tchouameni and Camavinga which was one of the two main reasons why Casemiro was allowed to leave (the other was the crazy bid we've bid for him). That unless you believe that Real would part from one of their key players or that a key player from Real would consider joining us.

Sure he's better then what we've got (most CMs were) and he's an excellent player. Having said that why were we the only one bidding that crazy amount of money? Maybe because at his age he wasn't worth the fee?
 
Last edited:

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
110,863
Location
Dublin, Ireland
I can't understand the outrage behind that. First of all it was one tiny phrase in an entire post which conveniently had been ignored. Secondly its because its true. Real's CM pair was set to be Tchouameni and Camavinga which was one of the two main reasons why Casemiro was allowed to leave (the other was the crazy bid we've bid for him). That unless you believe that Real would part from one of their key players or that a key player from Real would consider joining us.
He’s hardly a reserve player come on
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
58,225
He’s hardly a reserve player come on
I repeat Real's CM pair was set to be Tchouameni and Camavinga which was one of the two main reasons why Casemiro was allowed to leave (the other was the crazy bid we've bid for him). That unless you are ready to believe that Real would part from one of their key players or that a key player from Real would consider joining us.

That doesn't mean he isn't an excellent player or that he wouldn't walk into our first team (which is hardly a hard thing to do at that point). However do you think it was worth spending so much on a 30 year old? If so then why no one had competed for his signature and why had Real allowed him to go?
 

RkkMan

Full Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
2,084
I repeat Real's CM pair was set to be Tchouameni and Camavinga which was one of the two main reasons why Casemiro was allowed to leave (the other was the crazy bid we've bid for him). That unless you are ready to believe that Real would part from one of their key players or that a key player from Real would consider joining us.

That doesn't mean he isn't an excellent player or that he wouldn't walk into our first team (which is hardly a hard thing to do at that point). However do you think it was worth spending so much on a 30 year old? If so then why no one had competed for his signature and why had Real allowed him to go?
Does the same logic apply when Liverpool allowed a 30yr old "reserve" in Mane to leave because of signing Nunez for the future or the grass is greener somewhere that isn't Utd?
We overpaid but unlike Mane Casemiro had a longer contract the former would have cost double what Bayern paid if they tried to buy him last year
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
110,863
Location
Dublin, Ireland
I repeat Real's CM pair was set to be Tchouameni and Camavinga which was one of the two main reasons why Casemiro was allowed to leave (the other was the crazy bid we've bid for him). That unless you are ready to believe that Real would part from one of their key players or that a key player from Real would consider joining us.

That doesn't mean he isn't an excellent player or that he wouldn't walk into our first team (which is hardly a hard thing to do at that point). However do you think it was worth spending so much on a 30 year old? If so then why no one had competed for his signature and why had Real allowed him to go?
Your reasoning needs rethought. We just signed arguably the best DM in world football.
i read Somewhere that he had made a decision to leave around Christmas. If that’s true then it makes sense that RM planned for him leaving
If you’d asked me even 6 months ago did I think we’d ever have a chance of signing him I’d have laughed
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
58,225
Does the same logic apply when Liverpool allowed a 30yr old "reserve" in Mane to leave because of signing Nunez for the future or the grass is greener somewhere that isn't Utd?
We overpaid but unlike Mane Casemiro had a longer contract the former would have cost double what Bayern paid if they tried to buy him last year
Mane wanted to leave Liverpool. He made it clear at the beginning of the transfer window and Nunez was brought as a replacement.
 

UnitedSofa

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
4,109
Mane wanted to leave Liverpool. He made it clear at the beginning of the transfer window and Nunez was brought as a replacement.
What? Nunez is a striker/CF & Mane is a winger. He definitely was not a replacement
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
58,225
Your reasoning needs rethought. We just signed arguably the best DM in world football.
i read Somewhere that he had made a decision to leave around Christmas. If that’s true then it makes sense that RM planned for him leaving
If you’d asked me even 6 months ago did I think we’d ever have a chance of signing him I’d have laughed
Neither Real nor Casemiro were planning for him leaving. He left because we broke the bank for him both in terms of salary and fee
 

RkkMan

Full Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
2,084
Then why no one placed a similar bid to ours?
Maybe they did but he told them no because they didn't appeal to him till Utd came in. Doesn't take away his ability
A lot of things happen behind the scenes that don't get publicized in the media.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
58,225
Maybe they did but he told them no because they didn't appeal to him till Utd came in. Doesn't take away his ability
A lot of things happen behind the scenes that don't get publicized in the media.
A bid of that magnitude wouldn't go unnoticed from the likes of Romano and Co. It would be strange gmfor him to turn other clubs for us considering that we have no CL, Ronaldo wants out and was our second choice CM
 

Tom Van Persie

No relation
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
19,303
Then why no one placed a similar bid to ours?
He wasn't for sale that's why there were no serious rumours about him leaving prior to us approaching Madrid. Our good relationship with Madrid and Casemiro's desire to play for United is the reason we got it done quickly so no other clubs had the chance to go in for him.
 

RkkMan

Full Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
2,084
A bid of that magnitude wouldn't go unnoticed from the likes of Romano and Co. It would be strange gmfor him to turn other clubs for us considering that we have no CL, Ronaldo wants out and was our second choice CM
If CL was so important he would have chosen to stay on Madrid's bench like FDJ
And the magnitude part isn't that simple. I've seen videos and listened to podcasts of reliable journalists who explain that when they outsource transfer news the level of info they can publicize is filtered. They're given authorization to either release chosen info immediately, later down the line(see news of Casemiro wanting to leave after the CL there was zero news in May) while other news never get to see the light of the day
 

SmallCaine

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
315
But when Liverpool do it for Nunez, Chelsea for Cucurella/Fofana or Spurs for Richarlison they get credit?

Yet "competent" DOFs overpaid for players like Nunez, Fofana, Cucurella, Kalvin Phillips(who's yet to play a game for City) and Richarlison and they get credited for it?
Signing Malacia/Eriksen is easy but buying a player from Ajax for £20m with a year left on his contract or a 30yr old Mane surplus to requirements at Liverpool with one year left on his deal is applauded while you criticize your own club for signing one of the best DMs ITW at 30 even if we overpaid due to a longer contract?
Which Dof's are getting credit for throwing blind money? No one is praising chelsea's throw it at the wall and see what sticks approach, likes of richarlison and nunez were costly but the managers wanted them and competent dof's got the deal done, they did not spend the window blowing hot air like murtough did. Conte wanted richarlison he was a spurs player by 1st july, klopp wanted nunez, he became a liverpool player before july. Ten Hag wanted antony and Murtough baulked at paying 70-80mn because it was too much only to fork 100mn at the end of the window. That isn't what any competent executive does, whether antony is worth 70mn or whatever ajax were orignally asking is up for debate, but paying 100mn for a guy you thought was too costly at 70 just a month ago is plain bad business.
 

DutchSerb

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 9, 2019
Messages
145
Supports
FC Groningen
I don't understand why we don't poach the best scouts, negotiators and DOFs in Europe instead of trying to mould our current employees.
Its fecking lunacy that we expect Murtogh to learn on the job.
I remember they tried to poach Monchi from Sevilla years ago but he had no interest.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
58,225
If CL was so important he would have chosen to stay on Madrid's bench like FDJ
And the magnitude part isn't that simple. I've seen videos and listened to podcasts of reliable journalists who explain that when they outsource transfer news the level of info they can publicize is filtered. They're given authorization to either release chosen info immediately, later down the line(see news of Casemiro wanting to leave after the CL there was zero news in May) while other news never get to see the light of the day
So you agree that he was set to be a reserve at Real

As said in previous posts we offered Real and the player crazy money which is why he's playing for us. I mean the Casemiro deal costed us 60m + 10m + we gave a 30 year old a contract till 2026 (+ 1 year) on an 18m euros a year. No wonder why he left and no wonder why no one counter bid for him
 
Last edited:

VidaMata

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
56
Location
Jubilee Street
Your reasoning needs rethought. We just signed arguably the best DM in world football.
i read Somewhere that he had made a decision to leave around Christmas. If that’s true then it makes sense that RM planned for him leaving
If you’d asked me even 6 months ago did I think we’d ever have a chance of signing him I’d have laughed
If you'd ask me even 6 minutes before it was announced he's willing to come, I'd have laughed (out of misery).
 

Trex

Full Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
2,100
Location
Nigeria
Just read a Murtough quote ruling out January business.
Making it clear this summer spending wouldn't become the norm.
Focus being on next summer.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
18,585
Just read a Murtough quote ruling out January business.
Making it clear this summer spending wouldn't become the norm.
Focus being on next summer.
That doesn't surprise me but we will suffer without another Eriksen type CM,also not having a number 9 as well.
 

justsomebloke

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
3,600
But when Liverpool do it for Nunez, Chelsea for Cucurella/Fofana or Spurs for Richarlison they get credit?

Yet "competent" DOFs overpaid for players like Nunez, Fofana, Cucurella, Kalvin Phillips(who's yet to play a game for City) and Richarlison and they get credited for it?
Signing Malacia/Eriksen is easy but buying a player from Ajax for £20m with a year left on his contract or a 30yr old Mane surplus to requirements at Liverpool with one year left on his deal is applauded while you criticize your own club for signing one of the best DMs ITW at 30 even if we overpaid due to a longer contract?
I think only Cuccurella and Fofana would qualify as being overpaid for, among those. And I much doubt anyone would consider Todd Boehly a competent DOF, probably not even Boehly himself.

Not a huge surprise Phillips hasn't played for City yet given that he has been injured since the start of the season.
 

Trex

Full Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
2,100
Location
Nigeria
That doesn't surprise me but we will suffer without another Eriksen type CM,also not having a number 9 as well.
We'll ride it out with what we've got, we have more than enough for top 4 to be fair.
Next summer maybe three signings or four instead of six.
 

Rightnr

Full Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2015
Messages
7,241
Absolute Glazer stooge. I would celebrate a takeover doubly because clowns like this guy would be gone day 0.
 

I’m loving my life

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 22, 2022
Messages
551
The guy is a terminal bellend. He literally has no clue about the needs of the club in terms of what it will take to get us where we belong. Either that or he is towing the Glazer line, which means he is worse than useless to us at this point.
 

kundalini

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Messages
5,299
Is this a legit quote? Where did you read it?
The Manchester Evening News have quotes from the call related to the full year financial results.

Murtough simply states the obvious. We spent more than we can reasonably afford this summer. He said ""We also saw a higher-than-usual number of departures, and this was an equally important part of refreshing the squad after the disappointing 2021/22 season. We will continue to support Erik in ensuring he has players with the right quality and character to achieve success while ensuring that investment remains consistent with our commitment to financial sustainability.

Overall, we are ahead of schedule in our recruitment plans as envisaged at the start of the summer, and we do not anticipate the same level of activity in future windows. As always, our planning focuses on the summer window.
"

United spend 65% of revenue on salaries (65.9% last season, 65.2% the season before). It used to be 50%. Add in cost of host matches, keeping Old Trafford and Carrington in an acceptable state, dividends for Glazers, loan interest payments etc, it doesn't leave that much for transfers.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/man-utd-transfer-news-january-25081348

https://ir.manutd.com/press-releases.aspx
 
Last edited:
X