The "lazy black player" stereotype

Barca84

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
3,763
Location
NOT BARCELONA
Supports
Doesn't support Barca
We've had a pretty horrendous post in the Lukaku thread comparing him to a gorilla. All very 1970s. What he also gets a lot of are accusations of laziness and of being dumb. Check out the performance thread - it does not make edifying reading.

Anyone can be lazy of course, irrespective of colour, but I made reference to black players long being subjected to far more accusations of this nature than their white counterparts. Not all, of course, but it happens and has been for a long time. Pointing out it's prevalence gets the usual response of "oh it's the PC brigade"

Black players have spoken at length about it this stuff about how they are only regarded as physical specimens lacking in intelligence and often the same work ethic as white players. Yet still it gets denied in places like this. Is the racism so casual and ingrained that the people participating aren't even aware of it?

I thought things had moved on from the 70's but maybe they haven't moved on a far as they should?
 

fergieisold

Full Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
4,516
Location
Saddleworth (home) Manchester (work)
We've had a pretty horrendous post in the Lukaku thread comparing him to a gorilla. All very 1970s. What he also gets a lot of are accusations of laziness and of being dumb. Check out the performance thread - it does not make edifying reading.

Anyone can be lazy of course, irrespective of colour, but I made reference to black players long being subjected to far more accusations of this nature than their white counterparts. Not all, of course, but it happens and has been for a long time. Pointing out it's prevalence gets the usual response of "oh it's the PC brigade"

Black players have spoken at length about it this stuff about how they are only regarded as physical specimens lacking in intelligence and often the same work ethic as white players. Yet still it gets denied in places like this. Is the racism so casual and ingrained that the people participating aren't even aware of it?

I thought things had moved on from the 70's but maybe they haven't moved on a far as they should?
Thing is that it usually is the case. Lukaku is a big bumbling dumb looking beast of a player...doesn't matter what his skin colour is!
 

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
15,458
Location
Sydney
I'm sure we've had this debate on here at least once somewhere before, and it usually descends into chaos fairly quickly

Maybe we should just leave it there? Or perhaps not.

edit: and here we are
 

Barca84

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
3,763
Location
NOT BARCELONA
Supports
Doesn't support Barca
Apologies. Mods please merge if we have a thread on racial stereotypes in football as I must have missed it.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
12,119
Cant we shift this to Current Events before it descends into the usual chaos?

Maybe if Lukaku made a run once in a while and didn't get beaten to the ball by a snail we wouldn't call him lazy. Even Shearer on MOTD called him on it.
 

Barca84

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
3,763
Location
NOT BARCELONA
Supports
Doesn't support Barca
I'm sure we've had this debate on here at least once somewhere before, and it usually descends into chaos fairly quickly

Maybe we should just leave it there? Or perhaps not.

edit: and here we are
It would be :lol: if it wasn't so :rolleyes:
 

yumtum

DUX' bumchum
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
4,878
Location
Wales
Yeah because everyone thinks Kante is lazy...

...fact of the matter is Lukaku looks lazy because he's put on a massive amount of weight so he can't move, that also makes him stupid, the fact he's black doesn't really come into that equation, I'm sure everyone in football thinks Ronaldinho was one of the best players at his peak, and one of the most entertaining footballers ever.

Think you're trying to find racism where there is none to be found.
 

Kostur

海尔的老板
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
28,759
Location
Poland, Kraków
Christ, somebody really compared him to gorilla? The person should be banned imo. How can you mistake an even-toed ungulate for a fecking primate.
 

Barca84

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
3,763
Location
NOT BARCELONA
Supports
Doesn't support Barca
Cant we shift this to Current Events before it descends into the usual chaos?

Maybe if Lukaku made a run once in a while and didn't get beaten to the ball by a snail we wouldn't call him lazy. Even Shearer on MOTD called him on it.
It's football related.

And this isn't just about Lukaku. Is Shearer a highly noted non racist?
 

giorno

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
15,800
Supports
Real Madrid
We've had a pretty horrendous post in the Lukaku thread comparing him to a gorilla. All very 1970s. What he also gets a lot of are accusations of laziness and of being dumb. Check out the performance thread - it does not make edifying reading.

Anyone can be lazy of course, irrespective of colour, but I made reference to black players long being subjected to far more accusations of this nature than their white counterparts. Not all, of course, but it happens and has been for a long time. Pointing out it's prevalence gets the usual response of "oh it's the PC brigade"

Black players have spoken at length about it this stuff about how they are only regarded as physical specimens lacking in intelligence and often the same work ethic as white players. Yet still it gets denied in places like this. Is the racism so casual and ingrained that the people participating aren't even aware of it?

I thought things had moved on from the 70's but maybe they haven't moved on a far as they should?
Yes, unfortunately
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
12,119
It's football related.

And this isn't just about Lukaku. Is Shearer a highly noted non racist?
No, but he's one of the best strikers to ever play in England. He knows whats hes looking at, and that's a lazy player. He doesn't make runs, he's beaten to every 50/50 and generally looks like he can't keep up with the game at the moment.
 

crossy1686

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
12,096
Location
Manchester, England
Yeah because everyone thinks Kante is lazy...

...fact of the matter is Lukaku looks lazy because he's put on a massive amount of weight so he can't move, that also makes him stupid, the fact he's black doesn't really come into that equation, I'm sure everyone in football thinks Ronaldinho was one of the best players at his peak, and one of the most entertaining footballers ever.

Think you're trying to find racism where there is none to be found.
No, there was literally a post calling him a 'silverback gorilla'. If you can't recognise that as racism there is absolutely no hope for you. It was fecking disgraceful.
 

Barca84

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
3,763
Location
NOT BARCELONA
Supports
Doesn't support Barca
No, but he's one of the best strikers to ever play in England. He knows whats hes looking at, and that's a lazy player. He doesn't make runs, he's beaten to every 50/50 and generally looks like he can't keep up with the game at the moment.
He may well be. The discussion is about how black players are more likely to be called lazy. And dumb.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
42,587
Location
France
Christ, somebody really compared him to gorilla? The person should be banned imo. How can you mistake an even-toed ungulate for a fecking primate.
The worst part about it is that it's not even an accurate comparison. Gorillas are extremely athletic, not only they would out pace anyone on a short distance but they can hold their ground like no other animal of their size.
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
19,749
Pogba is another one who suffers from this
 

Redlambs

Creator of the Caftards comics
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
35,953
Location
Officially the best poker player on RAWK. Your cas
It's football related.

And this isn't just about Lukaku. Is Shearer a highly noted non racist?
Whilst I agree with the overall point that there is still a lot of racism in football, what does this even mean?

This is the problem with these debates, they are so neatly wrapped up that anyone with a shred of opposing position is instantly racist or wrong because this kind of loop.
 

Reddy Rederson

New Member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
3,809
Location
Unicorn Country.
Havent seen the post, and dont know the context. What I do know is that historicly ape. monkey, gorilla has been used as a means of referring to black people as sub human. The history of it is well known. So while Im sure the person posting the comment in no way was commenting on skin colour, but rather performance, its a terrible analogy to use when commenting on a black person in any context. That being said, if it was used in the context of performance I would simply educate and move on. No need to shame people over things they didnt mean.
 

eltigreFalcao

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
167
Location
Buenos Aires
Yeah because everyone thinks Kante is lazy...

...fact of the matter is Lukaku looks lazy because he's put on a massive amount of weight so he can't move, that also makes him stupid, the fact he's black doesn't really come into that equation, I'm sure everyone in football thinks Ronaldinho was one of the best players at his peak, and one of the most entertaining footballers ever.

Think you're trying to find racism where there is none to be found.
Well you might be surprised on how many times you can find racism where everyone else (read: mostly white ppl) says there isnt. It is just there, operating, making pretty "rational" arguments, signaling out individuals that have -and aparently will continue to have- suffered ratial abuse here and there. Come on. Lets just make an effort and see it.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
12,119
He may well be. The discussion is about how black players are more likely to be called lazy. And dumb.
Maybe they are, but you used Lukaku as your example. Lukaku is called lazy because he is lazy.
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
19,749
Rashford and Martial are often labelled as unintelligent.
 

fergieisold

Full Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
4,516
Location
Saddleworth (home) Manchester (work)
And they're off.....:rolleyes:
But what's wrong with describing what you see? Is it some kind of crime? Does Lukaku look like a delicate, swift footed intelligent player with a good understanding of the game to you? Or does he look like a big clumsy oath (given his current form). It is pretty fecking obvious which description fits better.
 

Barca84

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
3,763
Location
NOT BARCELONA
Supports
Doesn't support Barca
Some people also think likening a black player to a big monkey is pretty funny. Oh stop my sides.
 

Redlambs

Creator of the Caftards comics
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
35,953
Location
Officially the best poker player on RAWK. Your cas
The worst part about it is that it's not even an accurate comparison. Gorillas are extremely athletic, not only they would out pace anyone on a short distance but they can hold their ground like no other animal of their size.
This. Gorillas are absolutely awesome beasts. If one got a football, I can tell you for sure, you wouldn't be getting that back.
 

Redlambs

Creator of the Caftards comics
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
35,953
Location
Officially the best poker player on RAWK. Your cas
Rashford and Martial are often labelled as unintelligent.
Now you see this is where the worry of lazy racism comes in as these two, more so rashford, strike me as intelligent players.
Yep, now this would be a better case for a thread. I'd agree that would have much more racist tones than calling Lukaku lazy.
 

Kostur

海尔的老板
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
28,759
Location
Poland, Kraków
The worst part about it is that it's not even an accurate comparison. Gorillas are extremely athletic, not only they would out pace anyone on a short distance but they can hold their ground like no other animal of their size.
Sounds like our dream target-man...
 

Minimalist

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
15,091
I've noticed it a lot in player threads who happen to be black. Real stereotype shit.

Particularly I remember a poster saying you could tell Martial was stupid both on and off the pitch.
 

lilcurt

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
2,075
Location
Birmingham
I honestly believe there is an amount of unconscious racism that goes on with this. I don't agree with everything this guys says but I think this is well articulated in the below...

 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
42,587
Location
France
Maybe they are, but you used Lukaku as your example. Lukaku is called lazy because he is lazy.
I disagree with that. When Lukaku is full of confidence and not built like a rugbyman, he will make the extra mile and run after everything offensively and defensively. In his attitude is a very much like Cavani but he doesn't have the same off the ball quality, he doesn't have great timing and anticipation, these things are coachable if he meets an actual coach.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

Gullible
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
18,165
Location
The Mathews Bridge
I haven't seen the post, but comparing him to a gorilla is obviously an issue, even if not meant with any intent, it's basic sensitivity. It just shouldn't be done, for a multitude of reasons. Main one being - it's racist as feck.

But, individually, Lukaku being described as lazy isn't completely baseless stereotyping. Don't the stats actually back up his lack of movement, sprints, distance covered etc? even last season before he packed on the muscle.


Are black players generally stereotyped as lazy? I thought it was usually the opposite? Words like "athletic" and "powerful" and "big and strong" tend to be used to describe some. Rashford, Welbeck, Kante are often lauded for workrate over their overall technique. Pogba and Martial are often lauded for their technique but lack of workrate etc. I agree with posts above that intelligence, or lack of, is often banded around where black players are concerned, and that certainly seems to be a negative stereotype.
 

Redlambs

Creator of the Caftards comics
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
35,953
Location
Officially the best poker player on RAWK. Your cas
I haven't seen the post, but comparing him to a gorilla is obviously an issue, even if not meant with any intent, it's basic sensitivity. It just shouldn't be done, for a multitude of reasons. Main one being - it's racist as feck.

But, individually, Lukaku being described as lazy isn't completely baseless stereotyping. Don't the stats actually back up his lack of movement, sprints, distance covered etc?


Are black players generally stereotyped as lazy? I thought it was usually the opposite? Words like "athletic" and "powerful" and "big and strong" tend to be used to describe some. Rashford, Welbeck, Kante are often lauded for workrate over their overall technique. Pogba and Martial are often lauded for their technique but lack of workrate etc. I agree with posts above that intelligence, or lack of, is often banded around where black players are concerned, and that certainly seems to be a negative stereotype.
Good point.
 

shaky

Full Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
2,080
Rashford and Martial are often labelled as unintelligent.
All our players are often labelled as unintelligent. Nobody cared when we called out Shaw for being overweight, or called Berbatov lazy, or called Rooney dumb, fat and everything else. To be fair to most Utd fans, they seem to be critical of all our players, regardless of skin colour.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
42,587
Location
France
I haven't seen the post, but comparing him to a gorilla is obviously an issue, even if not meant with any intent, it's basic sensitivity. It just shouldn't be done, for a multitude of reasons. Main one being - it's racist as feck.

But, individually, Lukaku being described as lazy isn't completely baseless stereotyping. Don't the stats actually back up his lack of movement, sprints, distance covered etc? even last season before he packed on the muscle.


Are black players generally stereotyped as lazy? I thought it was usually the opposite? Words like "athletic" and "powerful" and "big and strong" tend to be used to describe some. Rashford, Welbeck, Kante are often lauded for workrate over their overall technique. Pogba and Martial are often lauded for their technique but lack of workrate etc. I agree with posts above that intelligence, or lack of, is often banded around where black players are concerned, and that certainly seems to be a negative stereotype.
I think that it's both. Pogba is a good example of it, when he is in form people will talk about his effortless stride, his incredible athleticism and to be fair his touch too. But when he is out of form, the same stride will be labelled as lazy, not bothered.