Barca84
Full Member
Same.Seriously? Sucks, man.
Enjoyed the discussion.
Same.Seriously? Sucks, man.
Enjoyed the discussion.
Well that was a short ceasefireI view ahem lots of black players more immature, and childish like, probably due to higher levels of testosterone maybe? some lazy, some attitude problems, some like pogba all fashion, some running headless chickens, etc.
Sigh...I view ahem lots of black players more immature, and childish like, probably due to higher levels of testosterone maybe? some lazy, some attitude problems, some like pogba all fashion, some running headless chickens, etc.
they have as well yes, but white players have a bigger data-base as well. well i don\t know, maybe i am just wrong.Sigh...
I guess white players don't have those issues
Ah the old "white players have small cocks but big databases" myth. Classic.they have as well yes, but white players have a bigger data-base as well. well i don\t know, maybe i am just wrong.
Please elaborate, and I think its been pointed out that anyone can be guilty of casual racismPeople pointing out racism everywhere are actually racist too.
No it's not a fact it's a racial stereotype. Believing it makes you wrong but not necessarily a racist.am i racist if I belive that most blacks have bigger di..s ? or is it just a fact?
I am always a bit surprised just how angrily some people take the accusation of being called racist or even their ability to say certain things because it may be perceived as racist. Seems almost out of proportion and sometimes seems more than the shock and anger at the actual racism.The fact that we aren't able to label a footballer as "lazy" or "braindead", without being accused of racism or casual racism, is shocking. What the feck is casual racism anyway? Racism is racism, whether out in the open, behind closed door or "casually."
Who told you its a fact?am i racist if I belive that most blacks have bigger di..s ? or is it just a fact?
I am always a bit surprised just how angrily some people take the accusation of being called racist or even their ability to say certain things because it may be perceived as racist. Seems almost out of proportion and sometimes seems more than the shock and anger at the actual racism.
As for casual racism, I imagine there's no one universal definition but I'll give an example that happened to my son at his secondary school while back in the UK.
His school was almost exclusively white British (as we were in the time living in Essex) and he was one of maybe 3-4 black kids in his year. There were 2 Arabs, 2 Asians and 3 Jews. He had a group of friends who, it turned out, were playing card games at school, sometimes 'gambling' with fake tokens.
Anyway, long story short, the white kids would sometimes launch the following comments at another one of the black kids:
'X, you coon, hurry up and play'
'X, you're so poor, no wonder you don't want to play anything' ( he was not poor)
Amongst others
To one of the Jewish kids
'Y, stop being such a Jew and actually bet something. Stop holding onto that money'
Etc etc.
Now, some may view this as just pure racism. But these kids ultimately were friends. I don't think they hated black people or jews, I don't think they meant them any ill. They just think its funny to drop in racial slurs/ stereotypes while playing cards. Because its funny. Apparently. None of these kids had the courage to say anything until my son did, after which they eventually stopped. Yet it made them very uncomfortable to be on the end of this behaviour.
Constantly pointing out racism means that those racist thoughts are in their heads and they want to make themselves feel better by blaming others.Please elaborate, and I think its been pointed out that anyone can be guilty of casual racism
Or they are the victims and its not ok to let victims live in their own misery.Constantly pointing out racism means that those racist thoughts are in their heads and they want to make themselves feel better by blaming others.
It's just multiplying the hate. Let racist people live in their own misery. They are not even worth lecturing.
He actually has a pretty valid point. If I say someone is dumb, lazy, smart, fast or slow, and the immediate thought goes to the skin color of the person I am describing, that is a huge problem. This is especially problematic when there was zero thought of skin color when choosing the adjective.Or they are the victims and its not ok to let victims live in their own misery.
Also if its happening in no way is ok to just let it go because well we won't want to keep constantly bringing it up.
That is not what happened though and is a completely separate thing all together.He actually has a pretty valid point. If I say someone is dumb, lazy, smart, fast or slow, and the immediate thought goes to the skin color of the person I am describing, that is a huge problem. This is especially problematic when there was zero thought of skin color when choosing the adjective.
Oh my goodnessI view ahem lots of black players more immature, and childish like, probably due to higher levels of testosterone maybe? some lazy, some attitude problems, some like pogba all fashion, some running headless chickens, etc.
My apologies then for not reading every post in this thread, which has turned completely away from being football related.That is not what happened though and is a completely separate thing all together.
The last bolded part is what has been discussed in the thread for many pages.
Its a thread about casual racism, its likely to sway away from just being about football.My apologies then for not reading every post in this thread, which has turned completely away from being football related.
I agree 100% that racists comments should be called out for what they are. One of the examples used in this thread has been called out properly.
What I don't agree with is a simple descriptor of a football player being turned into racism, or casual racism. While I may not agree with what has transpired, I do understand this is the world we live in today and people will construe negative adjectives many different ways. For me we are walking a fine line where I don't think we are too far away from even describing positive adjectives as being racist or casually racist.
Casual racism to me would be a pejorative comment/belief based on race. For example, in the context of this thread, having a belief that Lukaku is lazy because he is black. I’m therefore struggling to understand how “anyone” could be guilty of that type of racism, as it requires some negative belief based on race. Having read this thread, I don’t recall seeing the initial example. Would you mind explaining?Please elaborate, and I think its been pointed out that anyone can be guilty of casual racism
This simply isn't true. The words lazy, slow, fast, intelligent, unintelligent, athletic, unathletic...did not derive from racial stereotypes, they are simply words. Because some of them have been incorrectly linked to certain races over time has nothing to do with how they were derived.Many "simple" descriptors or many types of people are derived from racial stereotypes both conscious and unconscious.
We’re not exactly disagreeing.This simply isn't true. The words lazy, slow, fast, intelligent, unintelligent, athletic, unathletic...did not derive from racial stereotypes, they are simply words. Because some of them have been incorrectly linked to certain races over time has nothing to do with how they were derived.
It is only when they are combined with a specific racial component can they even begin to be thought of as racist. Smart Asian, white trash, lazy black guy are examples of needless addition of a racial component. I'll concede your point if one of these terms is used, but to draw a line from "Lukaku is lazy" or "Kagawa is such a smart player" to any sort of racism, casual, consciously, or unconsciously is you adding race into the equation - not the person who used to phrase.
I get it and honestly can't be arsed to read every post in this thread. However, I've read quite a few of them and nowhere did I see one that attached the word "black" and "lazy". That was an interpretation by other posters who wanted to make something out of nothing. If I missed these posts, I apologize.We’re not exactly disagreeing.
What I am saying is that “blacks are lazy” is a racial stereotype which has been around for a long time. At times now peoole attach the label without thinking.
Now I never said saying Lukaku is lazy is racist btw. Nor have I said anyone who said it is racist.
What I have said in this thread is that criritsm of black players has fallen into the following 3 categories:
Lazy
Has attitude problems
Lacks intelligence
More often than their white counterparts. That opens a debate about why.
Now calling Lukaku dumb which was also in the OP btw is another one.
I’ve never seen a stylish, lazy, headless chicken running around with an attitude problem, but I can’t imagine it looks anything like a black dude in shorts and a t shirt. Maybe I’m reading this wrong, but your post is just a drawn out way of saying “it’s cos he’s black”. Which is pretty much racist as feck. But please, if I’m mistaken, correct my inference.I view ahem lots of black players more immature, and childish like, probably due to higher levels of testosterone maybe? some lazy, some attitude problems, some like pogba all fashion, some running headless chickens, etc.
To be fair it is a label that White Anglo-Saxon Protestants have applied to everyone outside of their demographic for some time. Spanish - lazy, Italian - lazy, black - lazy, Mexican - lazy, etc., etc. Only the Chinese and Japanese escape that categorization, but we get them elsewhere.What I am saying is that “blacks are lazy” is a racial stereotype which has been around for a long time. ....
Certain cultures value learning certain skill sets over others.if the stereotypes are not true how do you explain that certain sports are dominated by one race or certain activities by another ?
Canada is one of the most diverse counties in the world , why are they sending only asians to the math olympics ? Are they racists?
https://cms.math.ca/Competitions/IMO/
do you think its because they know they have a certain advantage in the certain skill set ? a better chance to succeed ?Certain cultures value learning certain skill sets over others.
Welcome to ignore, you racist clod.I view ahem lots of black players more immature, and childish like, probably due to higher levels of testosterone maybe? some lazy, some attitude problems, some like pogba all fashion, some running headless chickens, etc.
It stems from the idea of the ‘Protestant work ethic’.To be fair it is a label that White Anglo-Saxon Protestants have applied to everyone outside of their demographic for some time. Spanish - lazy, Italian - lazy, black - lazy, Mexican - lazy, etc., etc. Only the Chinese and Japanese escape that categorization, but we get them elsewhere.
I think in the case of a sport like basketball where every athlete is in a outlier category for height sure.do you think its because they know they have a certain advantage in the certain skill set ? a better chance to succeed ?
Maybe he’s seen all the d’s in the world and conducted his own study then came up with an averageWho told you its a fact?
I think in the case of a sport like basketball where every athlete is in a outlier category for height sure.
I think for football where we see a player of Messi, Maradona, or Pele's small stature dominating the game... it becomes more of a cultural thing.
If whites and blacks studied maths like Asians did they'd be just as good at it... but it would need to be valued in their culture as opposed to ridiculed.
I'm not saying race has absolutely nothing to do with anything... but again since we are discussing football... I bring the example of America which has an Anglo Saxon cultural root at its core with access to all different races... with a huge population base and financial resources... yet continually fails at the international level.
Also you have to consider which groups are more prone to having players from impoverished or single parent homes, where a work ethic is less likely to be instilled by an authority figure.
Again, I think it's primarily a cultural issue... more than a race issue.
It was not meant to be a 'gotcha' question. I am genuinely interested in your thought process and I don't feel that aggressively attacking people solves anything or changes anything.
I asked because surely the logical conclusion to what you're saying is that black people are less intelligent than white people? Your main argument is that there are far more of these kinds of players who are white than there are of the ones who are black. Fair point. You can't argue with that. There are also far more countries which are majority white which are well off. There are not so many in Africa. Even in Western countries, we are generally less well off than the white population.
So in football, there are more white 'intelligent' players and this is used as evidence that white players are perhaps more naturally intelligent in football than black players. It is a case of correlation being equated with causation. So to extend that, the majority white countries are far more successful than the majority black ones right? So...are they more intelligent? If not, what is the difference between those countries?
Also Zidane is not white.
If you were to ask me why, I'd say there is very little proper football infrastructure in most African countries so the players who rise up are not getting a 'footballing education' in the same way a player at Barcelona or Ajax or Man Utd is. Similarly, even for the black players in Europe who have grown up here, there is a pretty typical attitude towards them with regards to how they're seen by many of their coaches, who often see them as physical specimens first and foremost (example, my son, who was often told to be the 'quick winger' or striker whenever he joins a new club, sometimes before they even see him play).
It is also easy to forget that football is, in the grand scheme of things, very very new. Spurs for example is one of the oldest clubs in the UK and yet was formed just over 100 years ago as a side project for when the local school couldn't play cricket in the winter. Many former colonies only had clubs set up in the last 60-70 years and many more recently than that. 100 years (or less) is not a long time and things are still constantly changing.
The advantage the Europeans and the South Americans have over the Americans and the Asians is that they live and breathe football from birth.what do you think if a culture is focusing on a certain skill set over many generations, do they get an advantage over certain cultures who are focusing on another skill sets ?