But Lukaku is clearly not lazy, the distance covered stats are clearly of function of the instructions that he is following. A player that is expected to play between the CBs will cover very little ground. In general United under Mourinho doesn't play on the full length of the field, every player is expected to rigidly occupy a limited area.
The "lazy black player" stereotype
- Thread starter Barca84
- Start date
Not if the insults are used disproportionally and are always targeted in a specific area.
Not for being a "thick" footballer though.
lads missing the point aots in here
It doesn't have to be explicit to exist. History casts a long shadow: descriptions of black sportspeople sometimes bear resemblance to slave-owners discussing which slave is a good or bad worker, placid or 'troublesome '. Part of the praise the excellent footballer Kante receives is surely down to the fact that he 'doesn't make a fuss', isn't outspoken (read: 'uppity'), isn't 'flashy' etc etc; the implication is that he's earned our shabby praise because his humility makes him acceptable in our society, according to our so-called standards. This isn't just about his footballing qualities.
Gerrard was critcised for being all blood and thunder and tactically inept. Beckham and Gazza were often depicted as being unintelligent human beings.
Yes. If you don't understand this go do some reading up.
This is the first time I read about this stereotype thing here.
Lukaku is clumsy, no matter what skin tone he has.
Lukaku is clumsy, no matter what skin tone he has.
It can be racist even if you're white. Remember Ross Barkley?
Did anyone complain about him being called clumsy or not having a good first touch?
Funny how how sarcasm sometimes gets lost in translation.
Strangely these are all things that are taken from his thread and are in no shape or form my interpretation.
And in no way am I saying these are all racist comments most of them are genuine description of a player but sadly fit the type.
I just think he is an average player nothing more and nothing less a bit like Andy Carroll..
That was part of Shearer's point. Last season he was running everywhere but now he's jogging about getting beaten to everything.
Don't think there's any lazy black player stereotype, it's the other way around, black players are known to run like horses.
Thing is, successful black people always attract some sort of unwanted interest around them, dunno why, it just seems white people don't like successful black ones. But that's more of a society thing.
Can't ever think in football that anyone can evaluate a player's performance based on skin color. That's absolutely dumb and idiotic.
Do I think that Lukaku is a bit lazy and he seems to lack football intelligence? Big yes.
Do I think he licks Jose's ass in all interviews and talks a lot of shit only because he wants to say the right things?Big Yes. Am I being racist towards him or saying these things only because he's black, feck no.
Thing is, successful black people always attract some sort of unwanted interest around them, dunno why, it just seems white people don't like successful black ones. But that's more of a society thing.
Can't ever think in football that anyone can evaluate a player's performance based on skin color. That's absolutely dumb and idiotic.
Do I think that Lukaku is a bit lazy and he seems to lack football intelligence? Big yes.
Do I think he licks Jose's ass in all interviews and talks a lot of shit only because he wants to say the right things?Big Yes. Am I being racist towards him or saying these things only because he's black, feck no.
Who regards Gerrard as an intelligent footballer? I would suggest they're not the smartest themselves but that could be construed as racist!
Rooney was also far from intelligent on the pitch as his "let me play in midfield like Scholes" phase demonstrates.
Gerrard is rightly lauded as one of the best players in the Premiership. The caf perspective on him is skewed to say the least.
Re the others the discussion is regarding footballers and their performances on the pitch ie footballing intelligence
State of this..
I think you're conflating two different stereotypes into one.
There's a lazy black people stereotype, and there's a 'powerful, athletic beast' stereotype for athletes/players.
There's a difference between comparing Lukaku to a gorilla, and calling him lazy.
It's right to criticise him as being lazy, because he is being lazy.
That's not to say that all the criticism thrown his way has been bereft of racism though.
There's a lazy black people stereotype, and there's a 'powerful, athletic beast' stereotype for athletes/players.
There's a difference between comparing Lukaku to a gorilla, and calling him lazy.
It's right to criticise him as being lazy, because he is being lazy.
That's not to say that all the criticism thrown his way has been bereft of racism though.
On occasion he was, not always.
Because they give people so much ammunition to do so. Rashford especially with his brainless head-down-run-fast style, atrocious finishing and decision making.
Sure, sure. The plethora of responses you've received pointing out the same thing to you should have been a red light. Not for you though it seems. You seem incapable of separating racial profiling from something that is actually true.
The unfortunate truth about stereotypes is occasionally they are an adequate description of an individual.
Are all black players lazy? No
Are most black players lazy? No
Are some black players lazy? Yes
Is Lukaku lazy? Yes
Now, as I implied in my first reply in this thread, I agree entirely that we see unfair levels of stereotyping for black players, but that doesn't mean that Lukaku isn't a shit example of this. And your refusal to actually commit to a stance on your view of whether Lukaku is lazy or not, tells us all we need to know. Sort out your comprehension skills, dude.
You’d think that having Henry as your personal mentor would’ve been enough. Not sure who can realistically push him to another level (not from his current form, but from his peak one) aside from Pep but Pep would probably sign someone more suited to his demands.
Pogba and Gerarrd share similar problems as players I feel as both struggled with tactical responsibility. Gerrard negated this somewhat with his drive and leadership qualities but I agree that you wouldn't hear Souness doing anything other than kissing Stevie's backside.
This thread is going to get locked any minute. Some of the replies in here make me seriously question the emotional intelligence of some posters.
The gorilla comment precipitated this wider discussion of casual racism and black player stereotypes eg prized for their athletic ability and physical prowess but also lialble to be called lazy and dumb.
it's been going on since the days of slavery
I'm not even talking about the distance he's covered. I understand that some tactical change is the reason behind why he's no longer running the channels and tracking back. He's being played as a target man, basically. That's fine. The least he could do though is look a little bit bothered about it though. Did he even win one header yesterday? He's jogging around like a 60 a day smoker.
The extra mass will do that, muscles require a lot of fuel and his gas tank won't be a lot bigger than it was before. Logically in his current state, he should have less agility and stamina.
The thread should really be kept open and certain beliefs challenged
Lukaku has always been bad at that, it has nothing to do with being Lazy, he isn't a target man, he doesn't have the qualities of target man and his flaws are exactly what you don't want in a target man.
Yeh but the fans since a big strong fella not running around enough therefore = lazy.
I suppose. I was thinking more recently than him though.
Thierry Henry once picked out one Premier League striker whose skills he most envied. It was Kevin Davies. Maybe Thierry was the one who suggested Rom should aim to have an arse like Kim Kardashian.
That's on Jose, I've said all season we're not using him correctly. Lukaku can't help that.
But the thing he can control is his effort. Even if he was playing left back I'd expect to see him doing more than he's doing now.
Of course likening to a gorilla is pretty horrendous and, yes of course, racist, with absolutely zero comparison to be made really, it doesn't even make sense...
But anyway, it seems, considering the reaction on here, that it should be impossible to call a black player lazy or unintelligent just because of the colour of their skin, but what if the player is lazy or unintelligent? I would consider Lukaku to be lazy and unintelligent, however, I would not consider Rashford or Martial to be lazy and unintelligent because they both aren't. Kante definitely isn't, Henry wasn't, I could go on and on, but my point is I consider this about Lukaku because of the way he plays football, surely if it was about racism then you would accuse every black player of being this way? And people aren't
But anyway, it seems, considering the reaction on here, that it should be impossible to call a black player lazy or unintelligent just because of the colour of their skin, but what if the player is lazy or unintelligent? I would consider Lukaku to be lazy and unintelligent, however, I would not consider Rashford or Martial to be lazy and unintelligent because they both aren't. Kante definitely isn't, Henry wasn't, I could go on and on, but my point is I consider this about Lukaku because of the way he plays football, surely if it was about racism then you would accuse every black player of being this way? And people aren't
That I agree with, but in the context of football players I don't think black players often get called lazy, black people do - hence the stereotype about not wanting to work etc.
Black players get called athletic, beasts, powerful, tanks, units - yes. Also dumb, unintelligent, thick - yes.
Calling lukaku lazy, is just that - the guy has been lazy this year (so have most of our players) but there's been comparisons to him and Mark Henry, a gorilla like you said and many more that are just soaked in racism.
You obviously think they are used disproportionally, so fair enough, though I suspect it's confirmation bias. I honestly don't see any evidence that black players are targeted any more or less. A quick google of "Lazy Premier League player" for example brings up articles about Lukaku, Morata, Bent, Ozil, Luiz, Shaquiri, Podolski, Mahrez, Chicharito. That's obviously not proof of anything either, but there you go.
Unfortunatly Political Correctness dictates we are no longer allowed to say what you see. Some see racism in everything, the intent is what matters not how you experience it. If it wasn't ment to be racist don't make it racism. And Lukaku deserves to be called lazy when he is lazy. Black people are not immune to be called out for how they behave. I think calling people out for how they behave (lazy it currently is) is the best example of neutrality. We call out Mourinho for being a terrible human being and not because he is Portuguese.
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The OP
Wow. I assume this person was banned?
You cannot compare black players to monkeys. No ifs or buts.
It's as simple as that.
What disgrace of few weeks its been here. From fans no longer watching to others begging for a Saudi sugar-daddy.
I can only hope some of those who stop watching start watching another club.
From the looks of this thread, some would make perfect Chelsea supporters.
You cannot compare black players to monkeys. No ifs or buts.
It's as simple as that.
What disgrace of few weeks its been here. From fans no longer watching to others begging for a Saudi sugar-daddy.
I can only hope some of those who stop watching start watching another club.
From the looks of this thread, some would make perfect Chelsea supporters.
I've seen the post to which the OP is referring and, lazy or not, to liken Lukaku to a gorilla is bang out of order. Honestly couldn't believe what I was reading.
I've seen similar with Harry Kane and Wayne Rooney.
My post in the Raheem Sterling thread if it adds anything:
This obviously has nothing to do with his race and everything to do with a combination of his size, (lack of) distance covered, (lack of) technical ability and the self confessed negligence around his weight issue. Fellaini got exactly the same treatment throughout the period where he could barely make a pass. Phrases like "lamp post", "useless lump" and "lummox" were thrown around regularly.
The same is the case with Lukaku. If he barely runs, allows the ball to bounce off his shins and is slow and ponderous to react to any situation as well as coming back from the summer break overweight. Of course he's going to be called lazy, clumsy, dopey, fat and/or simply a useless lump.
This obviously has nothing to do with his race and everything to do with a combination of his size, (lack of) distance covered, (lack of) technical ability and the self confessed negligence around his weight issue. Fellaini got exactly the same treatment throughout the period where he could barely make a pass. Phrases like "lamp post", "useless lump" and "lummox" were thrown around regularly.
Lukaku's stats under every manager have been among the lowest in the league. He's always been a lazy player, but one who historically masked this with several energy sapping lengthy sprints per match. These sprints have reduced in number steadily over the past 3-4 seasons, as he's progressively put on more and more weight.
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