The left-winger market…

lex talionis said:
I completely agree that United "should be trying to get better". But what does that really mean on a position by position basis?

For example, all of us acknowledge that Senne Lammens has been brilliant for us. But none of us would argue that he's the greatest keeper on the planet. He probably not even on anyone's top ten keepers list. Under the operating theory that we should always try to get better does it therefore follow that we should seek to upgrade on Lammens? Of course not, right? Despite his youth and relative lack of experience -- is it even 20 games now for United? -- every one of us is on board with Lammens as our starting keeper going into next season. At least I believe that must be the case. Maybe I'm wrong.

The task ahead of management is to shore up areas of weakness in the squad and without any doubt whatsoever the area of primary concern is central midfield. There's no need to elaborate here on that point except to say that we need to bring in 2 (some here have argued 3, but I argue 2) midfielders. The outlay for two proper CMs, one being more B2B and the other being more CDM, is probably going to land somewhere around 120-140m. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think we're going to find diamonds in the rough for cheap for the CM positions as we did for Lammens, who cost us only 18m but who now is probably worth at least 60m.

We need a backup striker more than we need what has been argued as a real left-winger. That's an indisputable fact, but what I have no idea of how much we would need to spend to bring in a decent backup for Sesko. I'll just make up a number and say 30m.

So we're already going to spend let's say 150m to shore up areas of greater need. Let's just make up a number and say we're got another 50m left in the transfer account for a total of 200m (If my math is right I think we spent net 230m last summer for Sesko, Mbeumo, Cunha and Lammens.

By the way, we spent 62m for Cunha, whom some of us are now proposing to bench for a new LW who, if he's better than Cunha, will cost us at least another 62m. I'm not opposed to finding a diamond in the rough -- although to go off on a tangential point I don't want to spend too much time on right now, I don't want to block the path for JJ Gabriel in 2-3 years as he looks a sensational prospect (the kind of prospect we're all dreaming of) and is expected to join the first team next season, even if he gets only a few chances in competitive action with the first team -- for 15-20m, but what I think you mean is "getting better" than Cunha and my response to that Cunha has been fantastic for us since Amorim left and that even if we think he hasn't been good enough under Carrick I struggle with the logic of spending what would have to be at least 62m for an upgrade on a player, who's been fantastic for us, who cost us 62m.

And then there is Dorgu, who's more an attacking weapon than a defensive weapon. From time to time here we all opine about playing players out of their ideal position, such as Martinez as CDM, but that never really does make any sense. We did that with Bruno under Amorim and although it wasn't necessarily a disaster it really was a very bad idea and largely contributed to our malaise under Amorim. No, Dorgu should be developed as an attacking player and not a defender although in a late game situation or a severe injury crisis I have no problem shuffling Dorgu to the back line.

Let's focus on priority needs first before even thinking about going galactico.
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Back up for Sesko who is not even starting games currently? It is an indisputable fact that we need a backup for a striker that can't get in the starting XI, whose current backup cannot even get on the pitch at all? Don't you see how crazy that sounds?

We should develop the same Dorgu the attacking player we've been watching all season? Do you even know the position Dorgu has played the most in his career? Do you have any idea?

Is there anyone saying we shouldn't prioritize central midfield too?
 
Malick Fofana could be a steal, seems quite slight though but still only 20. I remember when he played against us last year he was a constant threat and at that age wont be demanding to play week in week out.
 
The Real No7 said:
Malick Fofana could be a steal, seems quite slight though but still only 20. I remember when he played against us last year he was a constant threat and at that age wont be demanding to play week in week out.
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Yes! Forgot about this guy but was so impressed with his cameo at Old Trafford. I’ve not seen much of him but from what I have seen I think he’s fits the profile of player we should be looking at.
 
The White Pele said:
Yes! Forgot about this guy but was so impressed with his cameo at Old Trafford. I’ve not seen much of him but from what I have seen I think he’s fits the profile of player we should be looking at.
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He’s only mentioned because theres so few options; he’s been injured since october i believe.
 
Mcking said:
Back up for Sesko who is not even starting games currently? It is an indisputable fact that we need a backup for a striker that can't get in the starting XI, whose current backup cannot even get on the pitch at all? Don't you see how crazy that sounds?

We should develop the same Dorgu the attacking player we've been watching all season? Do you even know the position Dorgu has played the most in his career? Do you have any idea?

Is there anyone saying we shouldn't prioritize central midfield too?
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So you envision Sesko being a long term backup striker for us? Good luck convincing anyone on the planet of that argument. But let's play along with it. So Sesko is our long term backup striker...does it not therefore follow that we need a first choice striker? Either way, we need another striker, whether that striker is Sesko's backup or Sesko is his backup. So poof goes that objection.

As for Dorgu, the entire squad apart from Lammens was more or less shit during Amorim. Should we replace the entire squad, apart from Lammens, this summer. I would say no. Dorgu has been brilliant under Amorim, as has Sesko, as has Cunha, as has Mbeumo, as has Bruno, as has Mainoo, as has Casemiro (his last season for United), as has Martinez, as has Maguire (I think his contract is up and endorse keeping him for two more season). Shaw and Dalot, they've been pretty decent under Amorim but both could be upgraded on.

But now that Dorgu is not playing as a wingback, which neither he nor Amad are equipped to perform at a high level and all of here were screaming that Amorim's tactics were daft -- which was proven to be a valid concern -- he's actually been brilliant as a left forward. He's even a natural left-footed footballer. Yes, I have an idea, a much more informed idea than yours.

Sure, we can go ahead and bring in a 100m left-winger -- and I'm curious what name you would suggest -- so that we can bench not just one of but both of Cunha and Dorgu, but doing so would be colossal waste of resources which under this ownership and under PSR rules are not infinite. Two proper central midfielders are going to cost in the range of 100m and a striker, whether a first choice striker over Sesko or Sesko's backup, is going to cost close to 75m if the plan is to bench Sesko and closer to 25m if he's going to be Sesko's backup.

Shaw is beginning to concern me. He's actually been playing well under Carrick but we can already see him slowing down and in any event his contract ends soon. We are not giving him another 3-4 season contract, so it would be behoove us to begin thinking about LBs who can apprentice his way into the job while Shaw winds down in what I believe will be next last season for United in 26-27.

Any other questions?
 
Suedesi said:
Fair point on the budget and priorities, but I've got to push back on Dorgu being a settled solution at LW. Yeah, he''s been brilliant for about 3 matches there. That's not enough of a sample to say the position's sorted.

You're right that Cunha's been excellent, but he's best centrally where he can roam. When he plays left wing we lose width.

I'm not saying blow the budget on a winger. But acting like we've got two settled LW options when one prefers playing centrally and the other's had a handful of good games there seems optimistic.

You're dead right that CM, backup striker, and LB are bigger priorities. If the budget only stretches to those, fair enough.
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All good points. We're not yet at the point where we can be three deep at every position. Maybe we get there during the 26-27 summer transfer window. And I would want to give Lacey and Gabriel a chance to make their mark. Gabriel is only 15 years old, but the reports I'm reading is that his development is outrageous. If we bring in a 22 year phenom at a cost of 60-80m to bench Cunha and Dorgu we not only disrupt something great in the works with those two, we give Gabriel no reason to remain at OT.
 
lex talionis said:
So you envision Sesko being a long term backup striker for us? Good luck convincing anyone on the planet of that argument. But let's play along with it. So Sesko is our long term backup striker...does it not therefore follow that we need a first choice striker? Either way, we need another striker, whether that striker is Sesko's backup or Sesko is his backup. So poof goes that objection.

As for Dorgu, the entire squad apart from Lammens was more or less shit during Amorim. Should we replace the entire squad, apart from Lammens, this summer. I would say no. Dorgu has been brilliant under Amorim, as has Sesko, as has Cunha, as has Mbeumo, as has Bruno, as has Mainoo, as has Casemiro (his last season for United), as has Martinez, as has Maguire (I think his contract is up and endorse keeping him for two more season). Shaw and Dalot, they've been pretty decent under Amorim but both could be upgraded on.

But now that Dorgu is not playing as a wingback, which neither he nor Amad are equipped to perform at a high level and all of here were screaming that Amorim's tactics were daft -- which was proven to be a valid concern -- he's actually been brilliant as a left forward. He's even a natural left-footed footballer. Yes, I have an idea, a much more informed idea than yours.

Sure, we can go ahead and bring in a 100m left-winger -- and I'm curious what name you would suggest -- so that we can bench not just one of but both of Cunha and Dorgu, but doing so would be colossal waste of resources which under this ownership and under PSR rules are not infinite. Two proper central midfielders are going to cost in the range of 100m and a striker, whether a first choice striker over Sesko or Sesko's backup, is going to cost close to 75m if the plan is to bench Sesko and closer to 25m if he's going to be Sesko's backup.

Shaw is beginning to concern me. He's actually been playing well under Carrick but we can already see him slowing down and in any event his contract ends soon. We are not giving him another 3-4 season contract, so it would be behoove us to begin thinking about LBs who can apprentice his way into the job while Shaw winds down in what I believe will be next last season for United in 26-27.

Any other questions?
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It isn’t a case of “benching” Dorgu or Cunha or Sesko. It’s looking like we’re about to qualify for the CL and if that happens and we stay in the cups a bit longer, we’re suddenly looking at a 60+ game season with 2/3 games a week. And to cope with that we need a better, deeper squad, and that includes in attack. Even with our historically light schedule this season, we’ve had games where we’ve had to bring on the likes of Zirkzee on as a sub because we have no other options, and he’s likely to leave this summer. That’s just not good enough if we want to compete. I feel like the lack of games this season has blinded some fans to just how ill equipped we are to cope with a busier schedule.

Meanwhile you look at Arsenal or City bench and at any given moment they’ve got quality attacking options being rested but ready to come on and change a game. EG in their last game City had Foden, Cherki and Reijnders on the bench. Arsenal had Martinelli, Madueke, Odegaard, Jesus on the bench. That doesn’t mean they’re not “starters” - often they are. It just a reflection of those teams having suitably deep squads, which they use accordingly.

If we want to compete with them, we need to stop thinking about “starting” and “back up” players and build a genuinely deep and competitive squad again. No one complained about talented players being “benched” when we were winning titles with squads stacked full of diverse attacking talent under Fergie. Rotation and proper competition for places was just an accepted and fundamental part of our success.

And the club seems to agree that a LW is needed. We were in for Semenyo, and it’s been reported that we still have interest in some other left wingers.

With departures and the financial boon of qualifying for the CL, if we’re smart we should have enough money for two CMs, plus an attacker, a FB and another squad player.
 
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Both Lacey and Gabriel are years from being a mainstay in the 1st team, if ever. We will be in 4 competitions next season, if you can bring in a Yildiz or Diomande for under £80m, we should do it. Our attacking play has suffered since Dorgu was out and even he isn’t proven quality at the position yet, and if the new signing acclimatizes well we can push Dorgu further back as well, Shaw is hardly a spring chicken.

Also, as opposed to a lot of people here who insist on dropping £200m on midfield, I don’t think we need to spend that much on there to have a competitive team for next season. £40/50m each on Berge on Sangare, for instance, and you have 2 physical, well rounded, PL proven CMs who can give you at least 4-5 years of good quality football, someone like a Welbeck as back up striker, plus a new left winger as said and maybe even another punt on CM/LB prospect, with Ugarte and Zirkzee going out + the Rashford option, then you substantially strengthen the squad for under £150m net while still cutting the wage bill.

Pricier isnt always better, as Liverpool has proven this past summer. Those £450m of theirs could’ve been spent much better, we should learn from that, as well as our own shares of past mistakes.
lex talionis said:
All good points. We're not yet at the point where we can be three deep at every position. Maybe we get there during the 26-27 summer transfer window. And I would want to give Lacey and Gabriel a chance to make their mark. Gabriel is only 15 years old, but the reports I'm reading is that his development is outrageous. If we bring in a 22 year phenom at a cost of 60-80m to bench Cunha and Dorgu we not only disrupt something great in the works with those two, we give Gabriel no reason to remain at OT.
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lex talionis said:
So you envision Sesko being a long term backup striker for us? Good luck convincing anyone on the planet of that argument. But let's play along with it. So Sesko is our long term backup striker...does it not therefore follow that we need a first choice striker? Either way, we need another striker, whether that striker is Sesko's backup or Sesko is his backup. So poof goes that objection.

As for Dorgu, the entire squad apart from Lammens was more or less shit during Amorim. Should we replace the entire squad, apart from Lammens, this summer. I would say no. Dorgu has been brilliant under Amorim, as has Sesko, as has Cunha, as has Mbeumo, as has Bruno, as has Mainoo, as has Casemiro (his last season for United), as has Martinez, as has Maguire (I think his contract is up and endorse keeping him for two more season). Shaw and Dalot, they've been pretty decent under Amorim but both could be upgraded on.

But now that Dorgu is not playing as a wingback, which neither he nor Amad are equipped to perform at a high level and all of here were screaming that Amorim's tactics were daft -- which was proven to be a valid concern -- he's actually been brilliant as a left forward. He's even a natural left-footed footballer. Yes, I have an idea, a much more informed idea than yours.

Sure, we can go ahead and bring in a 100m left-winger -- and I'm curious what name you would suggest -- so that we can bench not just one of but both of Cunha and Dorgu, but doing so would be colossal waste of resources which under this ownership and under PSR rules are not infinite. Two proper central midfielders are going to cost in the range of 100m and a striker, whether a first choice striker over Sesko or Sesko's backup, is going to cost close to 75m if the plan is to bench Sesko and closer to 25m if he's going to be Sesko's backup.

Shaw is beginning to concern me. He's actually been playing well under Carrick but we can already see him slowing down and in any event his contract ends soon. We are not giving him another 3-4 season contract, so it would be behoove us to begin thinking about LBs who can apprentice his way into the job while Shaw winds down in what I believe will be next last season for United in 26-27.

Any other questions?
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If Sesko is struggling to get a start even though he's been scoring plenty, does that not tell you we have strong options for his position? When he's starting, those who have been so good that they have been keeping him out of the XI and Zirkzee completely out of the team, will be back up to him. That's not difficult to understand.

Cunha has never been a natural left winger and we signed him to play in a position that doesn't exist at the club anymore. He's serviceable at CF and LW but clearly isn't natural in those positions. We are only tolerating how much he struggles to impact games from the left wing because we are winning. We are currently getting little attacking threat from there, and it's been evident in the last two matches. We have a natural centre forward in Sesko, but no one on the left wing. If we brought in a left winger, we'd be stronger, with Cunha remaining an option for both positions.

Dorgu hasn't been brilliant as an attacker. He's had about three good games where he showed any sort of reliable attacking quality for a left winger. He's been a leftback most of his life and was playing mostly as a left back and occasionally as a right winger for Lecce when we signed him. Why should he be developed as a left winger here instead of the left back he's been most of his career?

EDIT: I've seen your other posts. You don't want to "block" Gabriel's path to the first team. You could have just said so, rather than all the back and forth to make it sound like we are fine on the left wing. Our idea of becoming better as a football team is to not improve the squad because we are waiting for a 15 years old.
 
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Mcking said:
If Sesko is struggling to get a start even though he's been scoring plenty, does that not tell you we have strong options for his position? When he's starting, those who have been so good that they have been keeping him out of the XI and Zirkzee completely out of the team, will be back up to him. That's not difficult to understand.

Cunha has never been a natural left winger and we signed him to play in a position that doesn't exist at the club anymore. He's serviceable at CF and LW but clearly isn't natural in those positions. We are only tolerating how much he struggles to impact games from the left wing because we are winning. We are currently getting little attacking threat from there, and it's been evident in the last two matches. We have a natural centre forward in Sesko, but no one on the left wing. If we brought in a left winger, we'd be stronger, with Cunha remaining an option for both positions.

Dorgu hasn't been brilliant as an attacker. He's had about three good games where he showed any sort of reliable attacking quality for a left winger. He's been a leftback most of his life and was playing mostly as a left back and occasionally as a right winger for Lecce when we signed him. Why should he be developed as a left winger here instead of the left back he's been most of his career?

EDIT: I've seen your other posts. You don't want to "block" Gabriel's path to the first team. You could have just said so, rather than all the back and forth to make it sound like we are fine on the left wing. Our idea of becoming better as a football team is to not improve the squad because we are waiting for a 15 years old.
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Hear, hear. The Gabriel argument is bogus. If he’s good enough he’ll get chances, and it’ll be healthier for him coming into a strong, hopefully winning team than it will be to come in with the pressure that he has to fill a key role at such a young age. With the ages of some of our other attackers, there will be room for him to grow into a place in a team, if he lives up to his potential. Bruno’s going to be 34 by the time he turns 18, for example.
 
Suedesi said:
Ndiaye b/c he's proven in PL and will produce right away.
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Does he really make that much sense though, aside from the Premier League proven qualification?

If we compare Ndiaye with Diomandé, for example...
  • The former has 3 non-penalty goals and 2 assists ~1850 minutes this season vs. 9 non-penalty goals and 5 assists in ~1700 minutes for the latter. Even if we penalize the latter for playing in a weaker league, there's a sizeable difference with regard to production. Mind you, the latter is barely starting to produce as a 19 year old, and his production could scale dramatically with age.
  • Bruno is 31 years old, and Cunha and Mbeumo will be 27 years old at the start of next season. If we are not careful with our planning, a significant portion of our attack could be 30-ish years old or more in 2-3 seasons, and necessitate a renewed cycle of recruitment.
  • The former will be cheaper than the latter, but not by much, considering he will command a Premier League premium. The former will also have lower and ever-diminishing resale value, compared with the latter.
  • At some point, we will need to develop or roll the dice and sign wide attackers who have world class potential. Signing a bunch of above-average to good players in their mid to late 20s (i.e., little hope for meteoric rise and whatnot) will only take us so far when the best clubs have bona fide difference-makers in Yamal, Vinícius, Olise, Kvaratskhelia and so forth.
P.S., The Premier League proven qualification can be tricky as well. Potentially, it could have led to the signings of Emi Martínez and Watkins instead of Lammens and Šeško. While the former duo are good players and would have been good additions, the latter duo are giving a positive account of their abilities and could turn out to be medium-long term fixtures at Manchester United due to their youth, which is a more tantalizing concept than signing players who are in their peak footballing years or past their peak footballing years.
 
I dont think i'd be looking at goals in particular for a signing. As wide forward i think cunha is pretty good really. I would be looking for more of an old school winger personally. What they do in deeper positions and off the ball contribution would be more important (or as important at least). A right footed amad would be my target basically (who has questionable goal output too).

I dont know. Its hard to call. Between Shaw, Dorgu and Cunha we have a bit of everything on that wing but you wouldn't want to manage without any of them for any period of time. I care less about full back and could live with more Mazraoui or Dalot out there if needed and would think Amass and Diego Leon would be more ready to step up than players further forward. But then Shaws injury record is drastically worse than the other two so you can make an argument for any of the 3 roles.
 
goldenboy said:
It's only mathematics in the same sense that a right-footed player taking a corner on the right will naturally bend their crosses away from goal, and a left-footed player taking a corner on the right will naturally bend their crosses towards goal. It's just angles, body position, line of vision etc.



Well done for finding one of the very very rare examples of that in today's game, which is also only the case because he's shunted out there to accommodate Yamal in his best position (which is as a left-footer on the right wing). Foden isn't very good on the left btw.



Left footers cutting inside from the left is not that effective, because as per the corners example they will be naturally wanting to kick the ball away from the goal. Nowadays wide players cut inside in order to shoot towards goal and increase their and the teams' goal-scoring chances. That means playing on the opposite side to their foot. The crossing - as I have demonstrated to you multiple times - is increasingly done instead by the full-backs.



Don't worry about it. He still thinks it's 1995.
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This is silly. Do better.

And this is what your argument comes down to. You know you still haven't answered my questions:

1: Why can't Lacey, Amad too, be considered to ocasionally play from the left ? Why would you consider this detrimental to his development, his quality, his career? This needn't be for 90mins..you know that, right? You know players can interchange, during a game, especially attacking players? Or maybe you think that stopped in 1995?

2: re Foden: you clearly know more than Pep Guardiola. I don't. And that's your opinion, which is fine, all subjective etc...

3: May I also assume, based on your responses, that you think Carrick and his coaching staff, have got it completely wrong, and Dorgu, playing on the left side of midfield and attack, has been an error? Has made our team, actually, worst? It destabilises our team, rather than providing some balance? And that Dorgu would be far better playing from the right, correct?

Please do, let me know your answers to these three questions.
 
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Mcking said:
If Sesko is struggling to get a start even though he's been scoring plenty, does that not tell you we have strong options for his position? When he's starting, those who have been so good that they have been keeping him out of the XI and Zirkzee completely out of the team, will be back up to him. That's not difficult to understand.

Cunha has never been a natural left winger and we signed him to play in a position that doesn't exist at the club anymore. He's serviceable at CF and LW but clearly isn't natural in those positions. We are only tolerating how much he struggles to impact games from the left wing because we are winning. We are currently getting little attacking threat from there, and it's been evident in the last two matches. We have a natural centre forward in Sesko, but no one on the left wing. If we brought in a left winger, we'd be stronger, with Cunha remaining an option for both positions.

Dorgu hasn't been brilliant as an attacker. He's had about three good games where he showed any sort of reliable attacking quality for a left winger. He's been a leftback most of his life and was playing mostly as a left back and occasionally as a right winger for Lecce when we signed him. Why should he be developed as a left winger here instead of the left back he's been most of his career?

EDIT: I've seen your other posts. You don't want to "block" Gabriel's path to the first team. You could have just said so, rather than all the back and forth to make it sound like we are fine on the left wing. Our idea of becoming better as a football team is to not improve the squad because we are waiting for a 15 years old.
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Let me phrase it this way. With the possible exception of Bruno, there isn’t a single player in the squad who is the very best in the world in his position. I think Lammens is brilliant, but if we really wanted to we could upgrade on him. You can see where this is going. We can’t upgrade on every position even though every position could be upgraded on. Until this thread got started I had never heard anyone argue that Cunha and Dorgu are weaknesses in the squad. Sure, they’ve had done bad games, but all of those games were under Amorim, whose tactics suited no one and we were forced to sweat out a relegation battle because of his daft tactics. Carrick is no Ferguson, not even a Mourinho, but even Carrick resolved the problems instantly and we have seen players like Cunha and Dorgu perform brilliantly under him.

I can’t stop you from ignoring easily observed reality, but I suggest that it betrays an agenda to use the performances of Cunha and Dorgu under Amorim — who will not be coming back to OT — and not under Carrick, who may be appointed on a long term basis (we shall see) — as the justification for arguing we need an upgrade on them.
 
Yildiz signed a new deal last month. A lot of mentions for him in here, but looks a non-starter.
 
Summerville looks an ideal signing to me. Clear step up this season and the perfect age for a big move.
 
IrishRedDevil said:
Not enough end product
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He reminds me of Saint-Maximin, who quite a few people on the Caf used to clamor for. He’d do things that makes you sit up and wonder, then the very next second make a decision so ass you’d want to tear your hair out, like Nani at his worst on steroids.
 
Lash said:
I think we need some depth, I just wouldn't go mad with it considering all those lads. We still need pace from the bench I think. I do agree though, if we're investing heavily, I'd prefer it to be a FB.
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I believe, We actually have enough pace in attack, even amongst the kids coming through (Lacey, Obi, Gabriel etc) What we don't have any longer is pace at left fullback to hold the width on the left. That is why once a Dorgu found his feet even as a left winger he was a change maker. I feel we need that at left back full time, both with the starter and his competition.

I still secretly harbor the hope Dorgu and Amass could prove to be that.
 
lex talionis said:
So you envision Sesko being a long term backup striker for us? Good luck convincing anyone on the planet of that argument. But let's play along with it. So Sesko is our long term backup striker...does it not therefore follow that we need a first choice striker? Either way, we need another striker, whether that striker is Sesko's backup or Sesko is his backup. So poof goes that objection.

As for Dorgu, the entire squad apart from Lammens was more or less shit during Amorim. Should we replace the entire squad, apart from Lammens, this summer. I would say no. Dorgu has been brilliant under Amorim, as has Sesko, as has Cunha, as has Mbeumo, as has Bruno, as has Mainoo, as has Casemiro (his last season for United), as has Martinez, as has Maguire (I think his contract is up and endorse keeping him for two more season). Shaw and Dalot, they've been pretty decent under Amorim but both could be upgraded on.

But now that Dorgu is not playing as a wingback, which neither he nor Amad are equipped to perform at a high level and all of here were screaming that Amorim's tactics were daft -- which was proven to be a valid concern -- he's actually been brilliant as a left forward. He's even a natural left-footed footballer. Yes, I have an idea, a much more informed idea than yours.

Sure, we can go ahead and bring in a 100m left-winger -- and I'm curious what name you would suggest -- so that we can bench not just one of but both of Cunha and Dorgu, but doing so would be colossal waste of resources which under this ownership and under PSR rules are not infinite. Two proper central midfielders are going to cost in the range of 100m and a striker, whether a first choice striker over Sesko or Sesko's backup, is going to cost close to 75m if the plan is to bench Sesko and closer to 25m if he's going to be Sesko's backup.

Shaw is beginning to concern me. He's actually been playing well under Carrick but we can already see him slowing down and in any event his contract ends soon. We are not giving him another 3-4 season contract, so it would be behoove us to begin thinking about LBs who can apprentice his way into the job while Shaw winds down in what I believe will be next last season for United in 26-27.

Any other questions?
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Kobbie brilliant under Ruben?
 


No ‘end product’ I guess, but was certainly fun!
 
Rozay said:


No ‘end product’ I guess, but was certainly fun!
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That’s his problem though. We can’t be signing someone that gets only what maximum 10 G/A a season
 
Mcking said:
If Sesko is struggling to get a start even though he's been scoring plenty, does that not tell you we have strong options for his position? When he's starting, those who have been so good that they have been keeping him out of the XI and Zirkzee completely out of the team, will be back up to him. That's not difficult to understand.

Cunha has never been a natural left winger and we signed him to play in a position that doesn't exist at the club anymore. He's serviceable at CF and LW but clearly isn't natural in those positions. We are only tolerating how much he struggles to impact games from the left wing because we are winning. We are currently getting little attacking threat from there, and it's been evident in the last two matches. We have a natural centre forward in Sesko, but no one on the left wing. If we brought in a left winger, we'd be stronger, with Cunha remaining an option for both positions.

Dorgu hasn't been brilliant as an attacker. He's had about three good games where he showed any sort of reliable attacking quality for a left winger. He's been a leftback most of his life and was playing mostly as a left back and occasionally as a right winger for Lecce when we signed him. Why should he be developed as a left winger here instead of the left back he's been most of his career?

EDIT: I've seen your other posts. You don't want to "block" Gabriel's path to the first team. You could have just said so, rather than all the back and forth to make it sound like we are fine on the left wing. Our idea of becoming better as a football team is to not improve the squad because we are waiting for a 15 years old.
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Not sure this tracks though. No one sees Mbeumo as our #1 striker because he isn’t a striker. Sesko is being nurtured and phased in, he’s not starting because the team is winning as it is and that’s exactly what Carrick has said ie he doesn’t want to tamper with it

I think it’s clear that once Sesko gains that confidence and PL experience he’ll be a starter unless he completely capitulates. Think he’ll start today
 
Rozay said:


No ‘end product’ I guess, but was certainly fun!
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Lennon7 said:
That’s his problem though. We can’t be signing someone that gets only what maximum 10 G/A a season
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He's been surrounded by low scoring and low assisting players through his whole tenure with us. I think he would go up a level in that regard at a better club. Saying that though the work he does for the third goal is as valuable as some assists/goals you see so it's not as simple as just saying 'only 5 goal contributions - not good enough'.
 
SilentWitness said:
He's been surrounded by low scoring and low assisting players through his whole tenure with us. I think he would go up a level in that regard at a better club. Saying that though the work he does for the third goal is as valuable as some assists/goals you see so it's not as simple as just saying 'only 5 goal contributions - not good enough'.
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Could say the same for Cunha at Wolves though yet he managed to rack up the stats. Completely agree on general contributions, which is why I wouldn’t get rid of Amad, but I just don’t think Ndiaye would solve any issues
 
Lennon7 said:
Could say the same for Cunha at Wolves though yet he managed to rack up the stats. Completely agree on general contributions, which is why I wouldn’t get rid of Amad, but I just don’t think Ndiaye would solve any issues
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He did, but they also had other players capable of getting decent contributions. Last season Ait Nouri at Wolves had more goal contributions at LB than any player we had which shows somewhat the type of football we were having to watch and that Ndiaye had to be part of. I just think he has it in him to improve that output with a better team that is playing football better suited to the way he can get that output but his overall game and way he can contribute aside from that is a high level. He's versatile too which is useful for clubs nowadays.

It does sometimes depend on the team you're in and the way they play. Elanga for example had 18 last season and has 3 this season.
 
SilentWitness said:
He did, but they also had other players capable of getting decent contributions. Last season Ait Nouri at Wolves had more goal contributions at LB than any player we had which shows somewhat the type of football we were having to watch and that Ndiaye had to be part of. I just think he has it in him to improve that output with a better team that is playing football better suited to the way he can get that output but his overall game and way he can contribute aside from that is a high level. He's versatile too which is useful for clubs nowadays.

It does sometimes depend on the team you're in and the way they play. Elanga for example had 18 last season and has 3 this season.
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Aye that’s fair, perhaps Cunha wasn’t the best example. It’s just that Ndiaye hasn’t really had a top flight season where he’s put away good numbers, and often watching him play you can see why. Lacks that clinical edge and often makes poor decisions around the box.

I rate him, and it might be a situational thing, but for the money he’d cost I think I’d prefer another option
 
Lennon7 said:
Not sure this tracks though. No one sees Mbeumo as our #1 striker because he isn’t a striker. Sesko is being nurtured and phased in, he’s not starting because the team is winning as it is and that’s exactly what Carrick has said ie he doesn’t want to tamper with it

I think it’s clear that once Sesko gains that confidence and PL experience he’ll be a starter unless he completely capitulates. Think he’ll start today.
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I believe you missed the point.
 
Lennon7 said:
Aye that’s fair, perhaps Cunha wasn’t the best example. It’s just that Ndiaye hasn’t really had a top flight season where he’s put away good numbers, and often watching him play you can see why. Lacks that clinical edge and often makes poor decisions around the box.

I rate him, and it might be a situational thing, but for the money he’d cost I think I’d prefer another option
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Which is completely fair.
 
Rozay said:


No ‘end product’ I guess, but was certainly fun!
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I don't really watch that and think he's the profile we need on the left wing. He looks like he enjoys having the freedom to cut inside and dribble with the ball wherever he likes, a bit like Cunha. I think we should be looking at someone rapid who can run at defenders or get in behind on counters, similar to what Rashford could do at his best.
 
Mcking said:
I believe you missed the point.
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Did you clock I bolded the part I was replying to? Your logic doesn’t add up. You’re contradicting yourself in the same post
 
Cunha pissing me off today. Surely can't be the instruction to have him completely abandon the left side like he has today. We need a proper left winger to give us threat on both wings, not like today where it's so right side concentrated.
 
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