Diomande has to be our no.1 priority for LW.
Let Liverpool get their mits on him and we'll regret it, even for £70-80m.
Let Liverpool get their mits on him and we'll regret it, even for £70-80m.
The left-winger market…
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Semenyo plays on the right too
As I said, LW would be a lovely, luxury signing unless it was someone on the cheap. Bigger fish and all that
Yes, but given we already have Mbeumo, Amad and Lacey on the right, he was clearly being targeted for the left wing.
Midfield is the obvious necessity but we can't pigeonhole ourselves by focusing on one area of the pitch every summer. We could get away with it to some degree last summer because we didn't have to contend with European football (or the domestic cups as it transpired) but next season should be a different story.
We very obviously weren’t targetting Semenyo for the right when we already have Mbeumo, Amad and Lacey who are at their best there.
I don’t think LW is a luxury signing. Sure, two starting CMs will be our priority, as it should be. But your argument for not needing a LW - that others can fill in there even if it’s not their natural position - can be applied just as easily to the back up striker, which you claim is a bigger need. So your logic isn’t really stacking up there. Because I’d say Mbeumo is probably better at 9 than he is at LW, and Cunha can also fill in there.
Meanwhile Sesko is a natural 9, whilst we don’t have a single proper LW in the squad.
It's not about that, though, it's about the face we need to spend about 75-80% of our budget on central midfield in the summer. That leaves a small budget for RB, LB, LW, ST. Think it has to be in that order too.
As I've said to someone else, if we went into next season with the players I've mentioned as LW options, but reinforcing both fullback positions and spending a fortune on two CMs, we'd be a much stronger team than if we half arsed the CM recruitment, bought an okay/gamble LW and didn't both with LB / RB.
I'm game for any improvements, but the gaps are clear for me and LW is 3rd or 4th priority
Yeah guess it would apply to a striker too, although playing on the other wing is a lot easier of an ask for those who prefer the right than asking them to play upfront. Most top players can do both. But fine yeah guess LW is more of a priority than ST (although not sure when Zirkzee leaves?) but still 3/4th down the list
Why would signing a winger mean we half arse the midfield recruitment? I've already agreed that takes priority, but I don't see why we shouldn't be able to do both.
And why wouldn't that same argument apply if we targeted full-backs instead?
In an ideal world I'd like us to strengthen in all those positions but the urgency for a full-back isn't as pressing in my opinion. If you disagree with that, fair enough, but it doesn't make it an either or between a midfielder and a winger.
Is it though? Mbeumo looks more useful up front than on the left. Depends entirely on the profile of player IMO. I don’t think we’ve seen enough of our other right wingers on the left to tell if they can make a good impact there.
I think it’s worth remembering that we should have a decent amount to spend this summer. Even if we spent £170-180 million on two starting CMs, we should still have enough left for several reinforcements elsewhere.
Casemiro and his huge wages will be leaving. We’ll likely be getting in some money for Zirkzee, Hojlund and Rashford (they could generat roughly £80-90 million). We could, and should sell Ugarte. I’d even rather have someone like Collyer filling his limited squad role than see him play for us again. We might be able to get some money for Onana or Bayendir, with Vitek possibly coming back as number two. And if we qualify for CL that’ll be a huge boon to our finances.
Last summer we spent over £200 million on rebuilding our attack and still had room to upgrade Lanmens. With outgoings and possible CL revenue I could easily see us spending very large sums in rebuilding midfield and still adding several more players. And if it was me I’d be looking at a proper LW and probably a versatile FB.
How do you figure RB is a bigger priority than LB and LW? I know not all here are huge fans of Dalot, but he's still servicable, and we have Maz who's fallen out of favour a bit during Amorim's time but is a great natural RB. Meanwhile we have no cover for Shaw at LB abd no natural LW at all, whatever you say about Cunha and Dorgu being able to do a job there.
Surprisingly - ‘having got rid of all of their left-wingers, Manchester United are looking to sign a left winger’.
To answer your question - we need 2 midfielders and a left winger above all.
We don’t need a striker if Zirkzee goes. He’s a non-factor already, and behind Sesko and Mbeumo at the very least now. A left winger would mean, firstly, that our squad has an actual left winger, which is a necessity for a team that plays with a left winger every game. It then gives us a collection of LW, Cunha, Sesko, Mbeumo and Amad to cover 3 roles. That is 5 players, and 5 of the level where you would not want to consign any of them to ‘backup’ and would want to offer all a lot of playing time. The 5, and the makeup of the 5, also allows a little developmental room for Lacey, who will be third choice RW, but third choice in a squad where the 2 above him cover 2 positions (Mbeumo at centre forward). That is the situation we want in order to develop Lacey. And also keep Mbeumo and Amad happy. Having 2 centre forwards means that Mbeumo and Amad are restricted to a RW battle. There is no clear backup/Origi level player amongst them. A situation where Mbeumo sometimes starts RW, sometimes starts CF and sometimes starts bench is a good balance between Mbeumo, Sesko and Amad. But it also means that if one of Amad or Mbeumo is injured, Lacey is promoted to the bench, but also, if Sesko is injured, Lacey is promoted to the bench. Lacey will get plenty of football, even though he is third choice.
We don’t need a fullback unless one leaves. Certainly at right back, and at left back, we don’t need one either as I see Dorgu as a left back. Him being able to play on the wing and him being a good enough winger for Manchester United are two very different things. He does not have the talent to be a full-time Manchester United forward, and given that we are already low at left back as it is, that is where he should play. Shaw can’t play twice a week, and is over 30 anyway, so Dorgu may well be the long term successor.
We don’t need a centre half either. Maguire may leave, and if he does, we could look to get a versatile defender. But even without Maguire, we have a senior centre half pairing in De Ligt and Martinez, and a reserve pairing in Yoro and Heaven.
After 2 midfielders and a left-winger, any additional signings are subject to further outgoings for me. Bayinder and Onana will likely leave and we will get a keeper to replace them. Just as we should have gotten a LW to replace the 3 that left. Ugarte may follow Casemiro out. That would leave 2 new plus Mainoo. Similarly to Lacey, I’d then like to see Koné come in and become the 4th.
Mason Mount can go too. He’s far from a winger, and there’s nothing really available for him at #10. If Bruno goes, we will buy a replacement, and about half of our forward line can play 10 too, while there’s still a valid theory that Mainoo is better suited as the third midfielder than the second anyway.
I never once said Cunha played LW like Dorgu would. You seem to just assume things without having a fecking clue what I think.
Cunha also offers more athleticism, pace, ball striking, and carrying ability than Mount in that position. Mount has basically never thrived in that spot in any 4 ATB system. He's a small pockets/link up player but not a true creator nor direct finisher/take on threat.
So yeah, suggesting him as a LW option (not even considering he literally can't stay fit and hasn't for years) is pretty hilarious.
If Ugarte leaves I think you have to sign another CM, preferably a younger one. Especially if we get UCL and are playing in more comps.
I think that should be Koné.
I would put a top LB above LW., especially as I think Dorgu will move up. Midfield is a no brainer
Mount played pretty successfully at times as a left midfielder/10 for both Chelsea and England by be way, when he was reliably fit
Still not a left winger though is he. Which is why so many of us think we should buy an actual left winger.
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This is true but also not reflective of the modern role he’d be expected to play as a LW now.
I like Mount but I wouldn’t be comfortable with him as a serious LW option going forward as a No10 yes fine.
He's the 3/4 option - Who can play there if needed, which should be rare.
We need a left winger - we got rid of all of them and now we are back to a formation with wingers(4-2-3-1). After 2-3 midfielders, it's the biggest priority in the summer. Cunha is not a winger(he plays too centrally and lacks the athleticism required), Dorgu is more of a fullback/wingback.
The problem is, we are likely going to spend big on midfield and blow most of our budget there. That probably means there is not going to be enough money for top wingers available on the market(Diomande, Yildiz...). I could see us getting into next season without a proper left winger and that is going to be the biggest problem in the squad. Maybe take a punt on a cheaper player/young prospect and hope he can contribute, exceed expectations.
There is a possibility of Rashford returning, I guess, if Barcelona doesn't trigger the option - which can easily happen. I don't know what to think of it.
The problem is, we are likely going to spend big on midfield and blow most of our budget there. That probably means there is not going to be enough money for top wingers available on the market(Diomande, Yildiz...). I could see us getting into next season without a proper left winger and that is going to be the biggest problem in the squad. Maybe take a punt on a cheaper player/young prospect and hope he can contribute, exceed expectations.
There is a possibility of Rashford returning, I guess, if Barcelona doesn't trigger the option - which can easily happen. I don't know what to think of it.
Yeah but my point is, as per previous 10 posts, we at least have several options there, players who can perform well there too
We do not have several options in midfield, left back and potentially right back, or even up top should we qualify for Europe again
I’m of course not against us signing a left winger, but we have other priorities, simple as that
Totally agree on this. Think people just find wingers more exciting transfers, but it can't seriously be a top consideration knowing our best midfielder is leaving at the end of the season and Ugarte should be moved on too. Not to mention we've got several players at the club who've played well in that position for us.
Rodrygo should be attainable. Fantastic player and massively underrated.
If the problem is United may lack the budget for a top winger, then selling Rashford (rather than him returning) would pretty much solve that problem - given that he's an academy player so the fee will count as instant profit, plus there'll be a large saving in wages.
But then again some people have oddly reacted to a discussion about left wingers as some sort of declaration that we do not need midfielders. The reason we need midfielders is because we lack de facto quality midfielders. Not because we don’t have Bruno, Martinez and Mount who ‘could play there’.
And we actually do not have several players who have played well at LW for us at all. We’ve only even played the position 3 times in the last year and a half, and the people who played it before then have all left. Since then, we’ve had Dorgu who played it twice, and Cunha who ‘played it’ once (while spending no time on the left at all) - scoring and winning a pen/free from the right wing.
Why should all of our options for a consistent first XI position be players who can play there at a push? Is that a plan A to cover a position for 60 games? That is what you have as back ups, or for a position that we do not ordinarily play, like Arsenal signing a de facto wing back when they don’t regularly play with them.
If we have a formation that has a left winger, right winger and a striker - we should be buying natural players in all of those roles. John O’Shea’s are for back up. City went and signed a left back because they didn’t have one - despite Gvardiol and Ake playing there often. Liverpool needed a right back despite Szoboszlai being able to play there. Cunha and Mbeumo are fine because we have Sesko. If we didn’t have Sesko - there’s no way our approach to the centre forward position would be that we have some guys who can play there so we don’t need one in the squad.
You’re right, Ugarte should leave, and if he does - it will not be for free, and he will be replaced. We can’t count positions we may need to replace if players leave as reasons why we shouldn’t fill positions we don’t already have. I’m seeing people say we need a right back. We don’t need 3 senior right backs, so that is not something to worry about at all. We might want one, and we might say Dalot should go - but we will not buy a senior right back unless we are able to sell one. So why is us needing a right back a reason not to target a left winger? RB will be addressed if one leaves.
A top club should be building a team, not a squad of options, I think. Options are for when you look deeper into the squad depth, and to cover scenarios. I think for a club whose default formation involves a left winger to not have a natural left winger in the squad - that position is one of need. Same would apply to any other position.
I think Dorgu, amad, Mbeumo, Mount can all play there
Again, as has been explained to you several times over, no one is proposing we prioritise a left winger over CMs. Everyone agrees new CMs are the priority this summer, and everyone knows the club will be prioritising CMs this summer. Who is proposing otherwise?
The question here is what we prioritise after the CMs.
We have already have a recognised striker, and we have a couple other players who can fill in there as needed. We already have two recognized RBs. We already have one recognized LB, as well as other players who can fill in there.
We do not have a single recognized left winger. All we have is players who can fill in there. That is why some of us think a natural LW is a priority after fixing the midfield.
I think the reason we need midfielders is because we objectively have an unbalanced midfield and will also be short of bodies there come the summer. We've got Dorgu who's played well there, Cunha who's played well there and then a load of capable options there. Going into a season with Dorgu and Cunha as first team LW options is stronger than a lot of teams in the league (based on current form). Also we generally don't play with a traditional LW apart from specific games for, the front 3 interchange, so going out an spending money on a specific LW when they all interchange positions seems an odd thing to focus on.
What exactly do you want from you LW though? If you want some one who can stretch the play, that's what Dorgu does. If you want a goal threat, that's what Cunha does. You then can switch your formation around to play 10s instead of true LWs, if the above doesn't work. You simply can't do anything different than what we have, with our midfield. I think having those options means you need FBs that can overlap, so I would look to improve there, but that could be with the likes of Amass or Leon (doubtful on this one).
I personally don't see Dorgu as a LB, I see him as a winger, so I would play him as such. So my approach isn't so different to yours, you just don't think the options are of requisite quality, I guess. I would focus on CM x 3 and LB/RB. LW I think we should be able to find someone of value, not look for some sort of marquee signing for a position we have players who play effectively there. Being hyper specific about a "natural" LW is a bit Amorim-esque and we should really just have profiles that bring certain attributes. I think we're only really missing pace in depth from the wings and I don't think that needs a lot of money to get.
Let's see how he does on loan first. Just penciling him in to what's still a pretty important spot in the squad (having only 3 other CM/CDM's to cover 2 spots) without knowing how he'll adapt to senior football is a bit stupid.
Cunha hasn’t played well there to me. He’s approaching 27 and has never been a LW really. He’s been a centre forward and a left-sided 10. He started one game there (sort of), in which he scored and won a pen from the right. We don’t have a threat from the left with him playing there.
Dorgu is not even close to being a United level forward to me. He may be able to play there. Marcelo was an incredibly talented left-back but even he probably would have never been a first choice forward player at a top side. Dorgu has scored a couple of goals of late, but has played as a forward against the best two sides in the league clearly asked to fill some sort of secondary left-back role primarily played to secure us against better sides. I imagine that he would not be seen as talented enough to play as a forward on a weekly basis. Not for this club anyway. This is a player who has had about 5 goal contributions in a year. He can offer something going forward, but he is only good enough to offer what I think a good left back should offer. Dorgu on the overlap - fine. In fact, more than. I was consistent from the beginning with him that I felt he’d make a good left back, but he showed week after week that he did not have the ability to make a consistent difference with the abundance of opportunities he got to do so in the final third. The difference in ability between him and Amad on the other side is night and day, and he is never a United winger, or a winger for any club above the likes of Burnley and co. At best, I’d put him on par with the likes of Dwight McNeil, who if we signed him to be a forward in a 433 for us, we’d be outraged. He has scored two goals in games where aside from those strikes, his notable contribution was his work rate.
And obviously we don’t play a traditional left-winger, and that’s because of my point - we don’t have one! We can’t possibly play one, instead, we have to manage and play someone in a less than optimal position as our default.
In terms of what I want from our LW, I want my winger - left or right - to be threatening, first and foremost. They need to be a goal threat, but they also need to be a threat 1v1, a threat in transition, and a threat with and without the ball. And it isn’t as simple as saying that is the profile they need to have - they also need to be able to do it to the requisite quality. And scoring a screamer, which everyone watching considered a surprise, does not mean Dorgu has that. Just saying ‘if you want someone to stretch the play, then that’s Dorgu’. Yea, it’s Dorgu, but it’s not Heung Min-Son is it? Or Sadio Mane. Otherwise it might as well be Kyle Walker. It’s not about just running, it’s about being talented enough to be a consistent difference maker at the highest of levels, and that is not Dorgu to me. I DO however, think he is good enough to be the secondary threat from left back. But he is not more offensively talented than players like Nuno Mendes or Ashraf Hakimi who would never be considered good enough to be forwards over any notable length of time for PSG. And Dorgu is no Doue or Kvara, which is my point.
Cunha isn’t a winger, but at least, he’s of the required quality. But he plays inside. If we want an outside threat, we are playing Dorgu who is nowhere near the level of Cunha as a forward. Cunha himself was always a questionable signing because it was always evident that there was no natural position for him once we inevitably got rid of Amorim’s rubbish. That will become more of a conversation over the next 18 months I’m certain.
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Anyway, it appears that literally every credible United journalist agrees, they have all said this week that we are targeting a left winger, citing the fact that we have gotten rid of all of our left wingers as the reason! The club also tried to sign a high profile one in January, so they clearly see the gap in our squad too.
Seems I haven’t lost my mind on this one then!
Seems I haven’t lost my mind on this one then!
It’s simply a question of whether we believe in him or not. If we do, then he should be 4th choice (next season). How he does on loan, and pre-season, will of course influence how much we believe in him. But he’s old enough to be 4th choice anyway, so if we don’t think he’s good enough, he should probably look to go elsewhere and get football.
But obviously the expectation is that he plays well on loan I imagine. I think there’s logic in sending him on loan now in order for him to come back ready to play a part. It’s up to him to confirm that of course.
Rashford is our LW for 202-27 season.
I think Rodrygo could be got on a loan if we paid a small fee and all of his wages as Real seem set on moving him on so maybe Rodrygo and someone like Nathaniel Brown fixes the left side with Cunha and Shaw already being in place, I think that along with Anderson and Baleba plus Neves on a free and we’ve got a very balanced and strong squad.
Is he a LW?
Also stands at a whopping 1 goal in 18 games in the league. Not really cinvincing that
Neves will be going nowhere for free.
And I think Nathaniel Brown is a similar profile to Dorgu so not sure if needed. Rodrygo on loan with option would be fantastic business though.
I mean it’s pretty clear that we got rid of our left wingers man. It’s also pretty clear as to why we got rid of those guys too. Not sure why you’d have people questioning you on that point.
Real question is if there’s a player out there to be got that gives us bang for our buck. I can’t lie I’m invested in the progress Dorgu was making there.
Personally, I think a combination of Dorgu not being that good (in my opinion) and our growing needs at left back - I think he’ll be more needed there. Shaw cannot play twice a week, and if we find ourselves playing someone like Cunha on the left - then a left back of the profile of Dorgu is even more imperative. Shaw just cannot offer the same thrust going forward anymore, and you’d want a fullback like Dorgu to run the line. But to be the main protagonist on the left at the highest PL and CL level? I’m not seeing it from him personally. I’ve seen fullbacks with better attacking qualities than him not able to be top level wingers. Put Dumfries in a front 3 over the course of a season and he’d be a Burnley level winger at best. Dorgu is no Mané.
I like Dorgu, and I’ve always said that I think he’d make a great left back. He’s got a great engine, good speed and physicality. But he doesn’t have the quality that regularly decides games at the highest level of football for me.
Theo Hernandez would be a good choice. He is an offensive LB and he could be an easy signing because he would be happy to come back to Europe.
Do you understand what the word priority means though? Do you think we can afford to spend £150m+ on two midfielders, £30-50m on at least one fullback and potentially a second one ahead of a left winger? What’s your budget for a purpose built left winger?
feck me. You can keep saying the same thing, but you’re really not getting it. This ain’t fifa mate. Funny how you’re saying the exact same thing for LB, a position in which we have only an aging injury prone Luke Shaw.
If we have a £200-£250m budget then I’m all for it. But as I’ve said, we will be a better all round team competing in multiple competitions with reinforcements elsewhere AFTER MIDFIELD
Can you all please stop replying to me in this dead thread now. We have a difference in opinion get over it
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