The left-winger market…

[davidmichael]

Neves will be going nowhere for free.

And I think Nathaniel Brown is a similar profile to Dorgu so not sure if needed. Rodrygo on loan with option would be fantastic business though.

Isn’t Neves out of contract in a few months ? With the transfer window closed and him not signing a new contract I don’t see how he’s going anywhere other than on a free ? Also Nathaniel Brown is more of a left back from what I’ve seen than Dorgu and Dorgu has always looked far better further forward for us, if Amass is loaned out then we’d be relying on Shaw to remain fit and Dorgu to look better defensively.

 

[gajender]

Isn’t Neves out of contract in a few months ? With the transfer window closed and him not signing a new contract I don’t see how he’s going anywhere other than on a free ? Also Nathaniel Brown is more of a left back from what I’ve seen than Dorgu and Dorgu has always looked far better further forward for us, if Amass is loaned out then we’d be relying on Shaw to remain fit and Dorgu to look better defensively.

Signed a new contract till 2029

 

[Rozay]

Isn’t Neves out of contract in a few months ? With the transfer window closed and him not signing a new contract I don’t see how he’s going anywhere other than on a free ? Also Nathaniel Brown is more of a left back from what I’ve seen than Dorgu and Dorgu has always looked far better further forward for us, if Amass is loaned out then we’d be relying on Shaw to remain fit and Dorgu to look better defensively.

I think that’s a stretch, and somewhat revisionist. Dorgu has been offensively terrible for the vast majority of his time here, and the discourse has reflected that. Our formation had him in offensive situations over and over again, 1v1 against full backs, or alone in space, and he regularly failed to deliver anything at all. He didn’t register a goal contribution for about 10 months, and LWB was being discussed as a priority position every day.

Going either way, his work rate has always been his best attribute.

 

[CM]

Do you understand what the word priority means though? Do you think we can afford to spend £150m+ on two midfielders, £30-50m on at least one fullback and potentially a second one ahead of a left winger? What’s your budget for a purpose built left winger?

feck me. You can keep saying the same thing, but you’re really not getting it. This ain’t fifa mate. Funny how you’re saying the exact same thing for LB, a position in which we have only an aging injury prone Luke Shaw.

If we have a £200-£250m budget then I’m all for it. But as I’ve said, we will be a better all round team competing in multiple competitions with reinforcements elsewhere AFTER MIDFIELD

Can you all please stop replying to me in this dead thread now. We have a difference in opinion get over it

This post assumes that the club would target a full-back over a left winger, in which case your set of priorities wouldn't apply and the £30-50m you've designated for that position could just as easily go towards another position. The MEN even reported that we're looking to strengthen the left wing in this tweet from earlier today:



And in the same way you suggested other players could cover the left wing, we have Shaw, Dorgu and Mazraoui who all have a history of playing LB. That's suitable cover if we choose to proceed that way. Plus a few others who 'could' play there in addition to that.

 

[lex talionis]

I think that’s a stretch, and somewhat revisionist. Dorgu has been offensively terrible for the vast majority of his time here, and the discourse has reflected that. Our formation had him in offensive situations over and over again, 1v1 against full backs, or alone in space, and he regularly failed to deliver anything at all. He didn’t register a goal contribution for about 10 months, and LWB was being discussed as a priority position every day.

Going either way, his work rate has always been his best attribute.

Don't forget his age...21. Amorim asked Dorgu to take on responsibilities that are simply too much to be expected of young players. When unleashed as a LW Dorgu has been fantastic. He's no Ryan Giggs, but he attacks with purpose and has no fear of getting stuck in as we saw with that glorious goal against City.

I'd still start top form Cunha over top form Dorgu, but Dorgu wears the shirt brilliantly. He's much more than a work rate merchant.

 

[davidmichael]

I think that’s a stretch, and somewhat revisionist. Dorgu has been offensively terrible for the vast majority of his time here, and the discourse has reflected that. Our formation had him in offensive situations over and over again, 1v1 against full backs, or alone in space, and he regularly failed to deliver anything at all. He didn’t register a goal contribution for about 10 months, and LWB was being discussed as a priority position every day.

Going either way, his work rate has always been his best attribute.

I think in general Dorgu had been terrible defensively and offensively although I think that was more on Amorim and his stupid system, whenever I’ve watched Dorgu for Denmark and in this run under Carrick he’s been far better offensively and I think with as you said his best attribute being his work rate I could see Dorgu being a current day version of Quinton Fortune or Park Ji Sung.

 

[Lash]

Cunha hasn’t played well there to me. He’s approaching 27 and has never been a LW really. He’s been a centre forward and a left-sided 10. He started one game there (sort of), in which he scored and won a pen from the right. We don’t have a threat from the left with him playing there.

Dorgu is not even close to being a United level forward to me. He may be able to play there. Marcelo was an incredibly talented left-back but even he probably would have never been a first choice forward player at a top side. Dorgu has scored a couple of goals of late, but has played as a forward against the best two sides in the league clearly asked to fill some sort of secondary left-back role primarily played to secure us against better sides. I imagine that he would not be seen as talented enough to play as a forward on a weekly basis. Not for this club anyway. This is a player who has had about 5 goal contributions in a year. He can offer something going forward, but he is only good enough to offer what I think a good left back should offer. Dorgu on the overlap - fine. In fact, more than. I was consistent from the beginning with him that I felt he’d make a good left back, but he showed week after week that he did not have the ability to make a consistent difference with the abundance of opportunities he got to do so in the final third. The difference in ability between him and Amad on the other side is night and day, and he is never a United winger, or a winger for any club above the likes of Burnley and co. At best, I’d put him on par with the likes of Dwight McNeil, who if we signed him to be a forward in a 433 for us, we’d be outraged. He has scored two goals in games where aside from those strikes, his notable contribution was his work rate.

And obviously we don’t play a traditional left-winger, and that’s because of my point - we don’t have one! We can’t possibly play one, instead, we have to manage and play someone in a less than optimal position as our default.

In terms of what I want from our LW, I want my winger - left or right - to be threatening, first and foremost. They need to be a goal threat, but they also need to be a threat 1v1, a threat in transition, and a threat with and without the ball. And it isn’t as simple as saying that is the profile they need to have - they also need to be able to do it to the requisite quality. And scoring a screamer, which everyone watching considered a surprise, does not mean Dorgu has that. Just saying ‘if you want someone to stretch the play, then that’s Dorgu’. Yea, it’s Dorgu, but it’s not Heung Min-Son is it? Or Sadio Mane. Otherwise it might as well be Kyle Walker. It’s not about just running, it’s about being talented enough to be a consistent difference maker at the highest of levels, and that is not Dorgu to me. I DO however, think he is good enough to be the secondary threat from left back. But he is not more offensively talented than players like Nuno Mendes or Ashraf Hakimi who would never be considered good enough to be forwards over any notable length of time for PSG. And Dorgu is no Doue or Kvara, which is my point.

Cunha isn’t a winger, but at least, he’s of the required quality. But he plays inside. If we want an outside threat, we are playing Dorgu who is nowhere near the level of Cunha as a forward. Cunha himself was always a questionable signing because it was always evident that there was no natural position for him once we inevitably got rid of Amorim’s rubbish. That will become more of a conversation over the next 18 months I’m certain.

Yes, he's not a winger per se, he plays on the left and would require an overlapping full back. I think that would make him almost a cert to start LW if we play like that and Dorgu as a player who can give us both offensive and defensive output. He's scored the majority of his goals coming off the left, so pointing out what he did on the right in a couple of games is much evidence for him not being a left winger.

But Marcelo isn't really LB though, you basically have to set up the team to mitigate what you gain, much like Trent. They are unique operators and your team needs to be balanced to bring out the best in them. I'm looking at Dorgus body of work as a winger Vs a wingback or FB. For Lecce and for us, he's just been better as a winger. Trying to shoe horn him into the FB position because of his work rate is strange, especially when his small sample size against the better sides in the league has shown him to be a good attacker. It also balances our team having him there. The difference now is he's not had to run the full length of the pitch to get into his attacking positions and he also doesn't have to worry as much with what's behind him, it's given him a lot of confidence and we've seen better results for it. I haven't seen a single performance from him where I thought he'd make a good LB to be honest. Also it's not just the screamer, it's the back post finish, it's his improved crossing, there's just so many more signs he's better winger and I think more defensive frailties than positives.

I would basically see him as a Firmino style player within a team, bringing out best out of the rest of the team. We don't play like PSG and won't play like PSG, so comparing us to them is only really relavant if we think Enrique is coming, but I don't see it.

 

[Rozay]

Don't forget his age...21. Amorim asked Dorgu to take on responsibilities that are simply too much to be expected of young players. When unleashed as a LW Dorgu has been fantastic. He's no Ryan Giggs, but he attacks with purpose and has no fear of getting stuck in as we saw with that glorious goal against City.

I'd still start top form Cunha over top form Dorgu, but Dorgu wears the shirt brilliantly. He's much more than a work rate merchant.

What games are you referring to? The last two?

And I’d say a WB has lesser offensive expectations on them than a forward. I don’t think it’s unfair to say he has been offensively underwhelming for the vast majority of his time here. Of course, that can largely be assigned to his age. But he’s not really shown top level football ability for the most part - and his recent impressive contributions have been roundly greeted as a pleasant surprise rather than any sort of expectation.

 

[Rozay]

I think in general Dorgu had been terrible defensively and offensively although I think that was more on Amorim and his stupid system, whenever I’ve watched Dorgu for Denmark and in this run under Carrick he’s been far better offensively and I think with as you said his best attribute being his work rate I could see Dorgu being a current day version of Quinton Fortune or Park Ji Sung.

I think that’s possible. But in terms of optimising him - he could be a Quinton Fortune of a winger or, in my opinion, he could be an Andy Robertson of a fullback.

I think it’s far easier for him, and more likely, from his current level, to become a world class left back than a world class forward.

 

[Rozay]

Yes, he's not a winger per se, he plays on the left and would require an overlapping full back. I think that would make him almost a cert to start LW if we play like that and Dorgu as a player who can give us both offensive and defensive output. He's scored the majority of his goals coming off the left, so pointing out what he did on the right in a couple of games is much evidence for him not being a left winger.

But Marcelo isn't really LB though, you basically have to set up the team to mitigate what you gain, much like Trent. They are unique operators and your team needs to be balanced to bring out the best in them. I'm looking at Dorgus body of work as a winger Vs a wingback or FB. For Lecce and for us, he's just been better as a winger. Trying to shoe horn him into the FB position because of his work rate is strange, especially when his small sample size against the better sides in the league has shown him to be a good attacker. It also balances our team having him there. The difference now is he's not had to run the full length of the pitch to get into his attacking positions and he also doesn't have to worry as much with what's behind him, it's given him a lot of confidence and we've seen better results for it. I haven't seen a single performance from him where I thought he'd make a good LB to be honest. Also it's not just the screamer, it's the back post finish, it's his improved crossing, there's just so many more signs he's better winger and I think more defensive frailties than positives.

I would basically see him as a Firmino style player within a team, bringing out best out of the rest of the team. We don't play like PSG and won't play like PSG, so comparing us to them is only really relavant if we think Enrique is coming, but I don't see it.

He plays ‘from’ the left, I wouldn’t say he plays on the left at all. We do not have a threat from the left when he plays. Shaw doesn’t provide it, and neither does Cunha. Against Fulham, we attacked almost exclusively down our right hand side, and that is because we have a right winger. We didn’t attack down the left because we had nobody out there. If Amad got injured for a length of time, it will be apparent to all that we only really have one winger in the squad.

If Marcelo isn’t a left back then what is he? Just because he’s great going forward, that doesn’t mean he isn’t a left back. What exactly do you see a left back as? It’s a player to support in both directions - and at a team like Real Madrid (and hopefully Manchester United), that would be more work going one way than the other. And Marcelo just happened to be the best going one way. Yet he was no winger.

And regarding Dorgu, I am concerned with his attributes more than anything else. I’m not saying he’s a great full back either. I’m saying that his attributes put him closer to being developed into a Manchester United level full back than a Manchester United level forward. His games at wingback are relevant because they form the far greater sample of his games for us than his two games as a left winger. So in forming opinions about his offensive quality, I am not going to dismiss the several games I saw him at wingback fail to make anything of his offensive responsibilities due to not having the quality to do so, and now conclude that he has the quality to take on an even greater level of offensive responsibility here. He has shown over and over again that his passing is awful and he cannot beat a full back. He has shown two great goals in two games. I am not dismissing him - but he is not to me, a Manchester United level forward player based on all I’ve seen of him.

Amad spent a year at wingback too, and I do not have the same judgement of him. He scored 10 goals last season, he regularly demonstrates a level of quality that suggests he can make a difference in the final third even against tough opposition. I don’t think Dorgu’s year at wingback can be described similarly.

Given that the wingback role has offensive and defensive responsibility, and Dorgu hasn’t shown much quality in either - I think with the tools he has, he has a greater chance of being developed into a top fullback that’s all. Firmino had top level footballing ability first and foremost, which is why he played for Liverpool. The qualities you have listed that you have seen from Dorgu of late are not redundant from the full back position either. We need his improved crossing from fullback too. He may be a better winger than he is a defender - but that does not mean that he is a good enough winger. Not a United winger. Or a City winger. Or a Bayern winger. All these teams have far more talented wingers than Dorgu. Given he’s played at wingback, improving his defensive abilities - which is not so much reliant on natural talent, will be far easier to do over 6-12 months than it would be to make him a winger than top defenders fear. I suspect he will never be that. Many top full backs started like him. Ashley Cole improved his defending massively. If he insisted on being a forward, he’d have never made it. If Alphonso Davies insisted on remaining a winger, he’d definitely be a winger. Probably just not a Bayer Munich one. The defending stuff you can teach. Wan Bissaka was a winger right up until he made his Palace debut. He was just never going to make it to United as a winger. He still switches off at times - but he has basic ability and greater physical attributes and they made a good fullback out of him. Dan James was not a good enough forward for United. If he had Dorgu’s physical strength and height - he’d almost certainly have been used at right back and probably would have been a United level one too. Matheus Nunes. Nico O’Reilly. These guys have quickly been trained to be more useful fullbacks than they have been in their more natural offensive roles.

I don’t see your point about PSG either. Is it some Enrique specific way of playing? They play a back 4, and 3 forwards who are far more talented than Dorgu. How does that differ from what we are trying to do? Hakimi has played for several other teams and managers, and always as a right back. Despite being better going forward than Dorgu, he’s never been good enough to be a winger for any of those top sides he’s played for. If he really wanted to be a winger, he’d have been a winger at Alaves.

 

[Zumbi]

Do you understand what the word priority means though? Do you think we can afford to spend £150m+ on two midfielders, £30-50m on at least one fullback and potentially a second one ahead of a left winger? What’s your budget for a purpose built left winger?

feck me. You can keep saying the same thing, but you’re really not getting it. This ain’t fifa mate. Funny how you’re saying the exact same thing for LB, a position in which we have only an aging injury prone Luke Shaw.

If we have a £200-£250m budget then I’m all for it. But as I’ve said, we will be a better all round team competing in multiple competitions with reinforcements elsewhere AFTER MIDFIELD

Can you all please stop replying to me in this dead thread now. We have a difference in opinion get over it

Do you just not bother reading the replies or something? This feels like Groundhog Day.

No, I don’t think we should prioritise anl RB and a LB over a LW, because as I literally just explained, we already have FBs and we don’t have a proper LW.

And yes, I think we can afford that much this summer. Again - as I explained in an earlier reply to you:

I think it’s worth remembering that we should have a decent amount to spend this summer. Even if we spent £170-180 million on two starting CMs, we should still have enough left for several reinforcements elsewhere.

Casemiro and his huge wages will be leaving. We’ll likely be getting in some money for Zirkzee, Hojlund and Rashford (they could generate roughly £80-90 million). We could, and should sell Ugarte. I’d even rather have someone like Collyer filling his limited squad role than see him play for us again. We might be able to get some money for Onana or Bayendir, with Vitek possibly coming back as number two. And if we qualify for CL that’ll be a huge boon to our finances.

Last summer we spent over £200 million on rebuilding our attack and still had room to upgrade Lanmens. With outgoings and possible CL revenue I could easily see us spending very large sums in rebuilding midfield and still adding several more players. And if it was me I’d be looking at a proper LW and probably a versatile FB.

 

[lex talionis]

What games are you referring to? The last two?

And I’d say a WB has lesser offensive expectations on them than a forward. I don’t think it’s unfair to say he has been offensively underwhelming for the vast majority of his time here. Of course, that can largely be assigned to his age. But he’s not really shown top level football ability for the most part - and his recent impressive contributions have been roundly greeted as a pleasant surprise rather than any sort of expectation.

Dorgu was out for the Fulham match and thus I am referring to the City and Arsenal matches. We all have own opinions, but I thought he was fantastic in both.

A WB definitely has great expectations heaped on him than an out and out winger. One of my complaints with Amorim's tactics is that truly great wingbacks are hard to find. No one grows up in their academy dreaming of and training to become a "wingback". Young players who have that talent set train to become wingers, either of the type who cut and look for the shot (fairly common now) or fly down the wings such as prime Giggs (somewhat rare). I can go on, but I'm not having the argument that a forward has a harder job that a wingback, who has to run the rule up and down their side of the pitch defensively and in attack. A forward suffers in one respect from higher expectations -- goal contributions -- and if you don't hit expectations in terms of those metrics (see Hojlund) you're demoted. But in terms of the challenge of the job itself, a wingback has a very difficult job in terms of being expected to perform at the same level as a proper fullback and the same level as a proper winger.

Has Dorgu shown "top level football ability"? I say no, he is nowhere near world class even if all you knew about him were his two recent performances. But has he shown enough to be an asset for this United side in support of Cunha, who for me edges Dorgu in overall quality? Absolutely. But you are correct...Patrick Dorgu has not hit the top level of footballing ability alongside players such as prime Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi.

 

[Rozay]

Dorgu was out for the Fulham match and thus I am referring to the City and Arsenal matches. We all have own opinions, but I thought he was fantastic in both.

A WB definitely has great expectations heaped on him than an out and out winger. One of my complaints with Amorim's tactics is that truly great wingbacks are hard to find. No one grows up in their academy dreaming of and training to become a "wingback". Young players who have that talent set train to become wingers, either of the type who cut and look for the shot (fairly common now) or fly down the wings such as prime Giggs (somewhat rare). I can go on, but I'm not having the argument that a forward has a harder job that a wingback, who has to run the rule up and down their side of the pitch defensively and in attack. A forward suffers in one respect from higher expectations -- goal contributions -- and if you don't hit expectations in terms of those metrics (see Hojlund) you're demoted. But in terms of the challenge of the job itself, a wingback has a very difficult job in terms of being expected to perform at the same level as a proper fullback and the same level as a proper winger.

Has Dorgu shown "top level football ability"? I say no, he is nowhere near world class even if all you knew about him were his two recent performances. But has he shown enough to be an asset for this United side in support of Cunha, who for me edges Dorgu in overall quality? Absolutely. But you are correct...Patrick Dorgu has not hit the top level of footballing ability alongside players such as prime Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi.

So in short, you are referring to two games, and you have altered my point about wingers having greater offensive responsibility than wingbacks to one which takes my point as saying wingers have a greater responsibility overall than wingers. Add some shit about me questioning the offensive levels of a player with 5 goal contributions in a year somehow having something to do with Lionel Messi and all in all, pretty much confirms to me that you don’t have a point at all.

 

[Lash]

He plays ‘from’ the left, I wouldn’t say he plays on the left at all. We do not have a threat from the left when he plays. Shaw doesn’t provide it, and neither does Cunha. Against Fulham, we attacked almost exclusively down our right hand side, and that is because we have a right winger. We didn’t attack down the left because we had nobody out there. If Amad got injured for a length of time, it will be apparent to all that we only really have one winger in the squad.

If Marcelo isn’t a left back then what is he? Just because he’s great going forward, that doesn’t mean he isn’t a left back. What exactly do you see a left back as? It’s a player to support in both directions - and at a team like Real Madrid (and hopefully Manchester United), that would be more work going one way than the other. And Marcelo just happened to be the best going one way. Yet he was no winger.

And regarding Dorgu, I am concerned with his attributes more than anything else. I’m not saying he’s a great full back either. I’m saying that his attributes put him closer to being developed into a Manchester United level full back than a Manchester United level forward. His games at wingback are relevant because they form the far greater sample of his games for us than his two games as a left winger. So in forming opinions about his offensive quality, I am not going to dismiss the several games I saw him at wingback fail to make anything of his offensive responsibilities due to not having the quality to do so, and now conclude that he has the quality to take on an even greater level of offensive responsibility here. He has shown over and over again that his passing is awful and he cannot beat a full back. He has shown two great goals in two games. I am not dismissing him - but he is not to me, a Manchester United level forward player based on all I’ve seen of him.

Amad spent a year at wingback too, and I do not have the same judgement of him. He scored 10 goals last season, he regularly demonstrates a level of quality that suggests he can make a difference in the final third even against tough opposition. I don’t think Dorgu’s year at wingback can be described similarly.

Given that the wingback role has offensive and defensive responsibility, and Dorgu hasn’t shown much quality in either - I think with the tools he has, he has a greater chance of being developed into a top fullback that’s all. Firmino had top level footballing ability first and foremost, which is why he played for Liverpool. The qualities you have listed that you have seen from Dorgu of late are not redundant from the full back position either. We need his improved crossing from fullback too. He may be a better winger than he is a defender - but that does not mean that he is a good enough winger. Not a United winger. Or a City winger. Or a Bayern winger. All these teams have far more talented wingers than Dorgu. Given he’s played at wingback, improving his defensive abilities - which is not so much reliant on natural talent, will be far easier to do over 6-12 months than it would be to make him a winger than top defenders fear. I suspect he will never be that. Many top full backs started like him. Ashley Cole improved his defending massively. If he insisted on being a forward, he’d have never made it. If Alphonso Davies insisted on remaining a winger, he’d definitely be a winger. Probably just not a Bayer Munich one. The defending stuff you can teach. Wan Bissaka was a winger right up until he made his Palace debut. He was just never going to make it to United as a winger. He still switches off at times - but he has basic ability and greater physical attributes and they made a good fullback out of him. Dan James was not a good enough forward for United. If he had Dorgu’s physical strength and height - he’d almost certainly have been used at right back and probably would have been a United level one too. Matheus Nunes. Nico O’Reilly. These guys have quickly been trained to be more useful fullbacks than they have been in their more natural offensive roles.

I don’t see your point about PSG either. Is it some Enrique specific way of playing? They play a back 4, and 3 forwards who are far more talented than Dorgu. How does that differ from what we are trying to do? Hakimi has played for several other teams and managers, and always as a right back. Despite being better going forward than Dorgu, he’s never been good enough to be a winger for any of those top sides he’s played for. If he really wanted to be a winger, he’d have been a winger at Alaves.

His heat map and shot map suggests otherwise, as well as generally watching him. https://www.sofascore.com/football/player/matheus-cunha/886363#tab:season. I agree Shaw does not provide it, that's why I'd prefer a LB that can overlap over a winger.

Of course he is explicitly a LB, but much like Trent, he is a LB within context. He is literally given license to get into the box and behave like a winger, whilst playing at left back. If you do that, you have to have CBs and midfielders that can cover the space to allow him to do his thing. I'm pretty sure there's a quote from Marcelo that Zidane told him to "go play because Casemiro's got you covered". I just don't see us ever playing like that, certainly not in the short term, it would require a massive overhaul in personnel.

It entirely depends on how you think we're going to play IMO. I think if you have a front 3 these days, they are far more rounded than attackers of the past, unless you set up a team to cover for them. I think what he does higher up the pitch is infinitely better than what he does further back. The games we've seen him play LW and RW, he's had his most effective and best games. It's not really about the screamer, it's his all round play in that position.

What Amad did at wingback doesn't really have any impact on Dorgu though, he's his own player and not really the comparison. Dorgu had some decent games at wingback and a lot of poor ones. Every game he's played as a winger, he's been good. I want to see more of him played at winger as it's his most effective role for us and because so far, he completely deserves his spot.

Which is fine, I disagree, as I haven't seen a good game of him defending or attacking from the fullback position. I have seen him play well as a winger, against top opposition. The others you mentioned have never played well against top level opposition, as a winger. I think Nunes and O'Reilly are FBs because of the nature of Pep's full backs, they are pseduo midfielders.

My point about PSG is they dominate possession and their FBs basically are wingers, you can see from their heatmaps. I'm not sure if you're expecting us to dominate possesion high up the pitch next season, under whoever we end up getting. If we plan to go that way, we are going to need to heavily invest in CMs and CBs that can cover space and dominate possession, rather than a left winger. I can't see how we pivot from how we've been playing, to that, in a summer - unless you sell Fernandes. I don't see that happening either.

I would rather look at how well we've been playing with who we've got, in the positions they've been playing in and add to that. You seem to not rate Cunha or Dorgu long term, which is fine, but I think shunting Dorgu back to LB on the hope he'll be good and playing Cunha off the right will just cause more issues than focussing on the areas that need drastic improvement. I think you're hunting for perfection, in a system we don't even currently play.

 

[lex talionis]

So in short, you are referring to two games, and you have altered my point about wingers having greater offensive responsibility than wingbacks to one which takes my point as saying wingers have a greater responsibility overall than wingers. Add some shit about me questioning the offensive levels of a player with 5 goal contributions in a year somehow having something to do with Lionel Messi and all in all, pretty much confirms to me that you don’t have a point at all.

My points are clear. You are free to disagree, but ignoring the undeniable reality when Dorgu was shifted from a wingback to a left wing his performances significantly improved only reveals your agenda against him.

 

[Lash]

To bring this back to the actual LW market...



Would happily take Fatawu or Monga off their hands if they're to go down to league 1.

 

[daba]

To bring this back to the actual LW market...



Would happily take Fatawu or Monga off their hands if they're to go down to league 1.

Yeah I’d be keen on Monga. Been impressive in the championship at such the age of 16. The last player to look so comfortable in that league at that age was probably Jude Bellingham. Obviously completely different player and arguably easier for a young winger to break in compared to a CM but it’s impressive none the less and he’s clearly one of the best in his age group.

 

[andersj]

Do we need someone to come in and start, or a young prospect? Do we say that Dorgu is the answer?

Perhaps not the classical Man Utd left winger you mention, but I think Morgan Rogers would make a ton of sense. Ornstein said he was on to watch this summer and I think he makes so much sense for Man Utd.

A) A brilliant option at left wing. Very different to Dorgu. Would allow us to give time to both depending on the game.
B) A good replacement for Bruno long term.
C) It would leave us with Dorgu, Cunha, Rogers, Bruno, Amad, Mbeumo and Sesko, seven players for four positions. Eight including Lacey. With several flexible players.

Bruno will be 32 next season. He is not likely to play every game if we make it into the EL or CL. He could also be an option for Mainoo - if he stays. If we brought in Baleba/Anderson + one more midfielder, we would actually have pretty decent depth to the squad.

Morgan Rogers actually reminds me of Steven Gerrard.

 

[goldenboy]

To bring this back to the actual LW market...

Would happily take Fatawu or Monga off their hands if they're to go down to league 1.

To bring this back to the actual LW market...

Fatawu is another left-footed RW...

and not that good anyway.

I've only seen a bit of Monga. Seems exciting but not seen enough to say what his ceiling is. Might be a pointless profile when Utd have JJ Gabriel coming up.

 

[Tallis]

Perhaps not the classical Man Utd left winger you mention, but I think Morgan Rogers would make a ton of sense. Ornstein said he was on to watch this summer and I think he makes so much sense for Man Utd.

A) A brilliant option at left wing. Very different to Dorgu. Would allow us to give time to both depending on the game.
B) A good replacement for Bruno long term.
C) It would leave us with Dorgu, Cunha, Rogers, Bruno, Amad, Mbeumo and Sesko, seven players for four positions. Eight including Lacey. With several flexible players.

Bruno will be 32 next season. He is not likely to play every game if we make it into the EL or CL. He could also be an option for Mainoo - if he stays. If we brought in Baleba/Anderson + one more midfielder, we would actually have pretty decent depth to the squad.

Morgan Rogers actually reminds me of Steven Gerrard.

Yes, he seems like a good Bruno replacement. Not exactly like for like but that's ok.

Would love to secure him in the summer but this is another 100m player and I am not sure how many of these we can sign in 1 summer.

 

[Bondi77]

Perhaps not the classical Man Utd left winger you mention, but I think Morgan Rogers would make a ton of sense. Ornstein said he was on to watch this summer and I think he makes so much sense for Man Utd.

A) A brilliant option at left wing. Very different to Dorgu. Would allow us to give time to both depending on the game.
B) A good replacement for Bruno long term.
C) It would leave us with Dorgu, Cunha, Rogers, Bruno, Amad, Mbeumo and Sesko, seven players for four positions. Eight including Lacey. With several flexible players.

Bruno will be 32 next season. He is not likely to play every game if we make it into the EL or CL. He could also be an option for Mainoo - if he stays. If we brought in Baleba/Anderson + one more midfielder, we would actually have pretty decent depth to the squad.

Morgan Rogers actually reminds me of Steven Gerrard.

Maybe you should have started a thread about players that are not left wingers but players that can do a job on the left!

 

[JE-0801]

I like Ndiaye. Can play both flanks, technically very good, PL proven, can use his weak foot (feels like he is 2 footed when I watched him on the right this season), he has very good work rate and good defensive work, he won AFRICAN CUP so there is taste of winning mentality in him. He also seems to be type of person with good character and good attitude. No fancy hair and just get on with playing football. I remember when Gueye got a red against us, it looks to me that he wrapped his arm around Gueye and told Gueye to just get off the pitch and stop arguing because decision was already made.

 

[andersj]

Maybe you should have started a thread about players that are not left wingers but players that can do a job on the left!

Maybe. But he did well there against us and has played 10 games there this season. That is more than both Ndiaye and Diomande.

In fact, Rogers have plaed 99 games as a left winger and 43 as a right winger according to transfermarkt. That is more than twice the amount of games Ndiaye has out wide. Despite Rogers being two years younger.

You are probably right that he will play through the middle at some point. But he is obviously an option as a winger too.

 

[Xeque_279]

I like Ndiaye. Can play both flanks, technically very good, PL proven, can use his weak foot (feels like he is 2 footed when I watched him on the right this season), he has very good work rate and good defensive work, he won AFRICAN CUP so there is taste of winning mentality in him. He also seems to be type of person with good character and good attitude. No fancy hair and just get on with playing football. I remember when Gueye got a red against us, it looks to me that he wrapped his arm around Gueye and told Gueye to just get off the pitch and stop arguing because decision was already made.

Really like him too and he has that Maverick kinda personality would be good to have a dribbler on this flank too.

Cunha/Ndiaye left with JJ being 3rd choice, Mbeumo/Amad right with Lacey being 3rd choice. Let Dorgu fight with the new LB for that position.

 

[Bondi77]

Maybe. But he did well there against us and has played 10 games there this season. That is more than both Ndiaye and Diomande.

In fact, Rogers have plaed 99 games as a left winger and 43 as a right winger according to transfermarkt. That is more than twice the amount of games Ndiaye has out wide. Despite Rogers being two years younger.

You are probably right that he will play through the middle at some point. But he is obviously an option as a winger too.

We already have options that can play there
I am pretty sure this was supposed to be about specialist wingers.

 

[andersj]

We already have options that can play there
I am pretty sure this was supposed to be about specialist wingers.

He did mention Mount in the OP. So I assume a player like Rogers, with close to 150 games as a winger, could be worth a mention.

If we want a pure winger, stick with Dorgu. But if we want an attacker, and Rogers is on the move, that is a very special market opportunity. To not consider that option due to someone like Ndiaye would be a mistake.

 

[Trigestis]

Rumours are Barcola is not really happy with his situation at PSG and may be looking to move in the summer. In that case, we should be all over him, unreal pace and a great player, and would offer us something exciting and different. Some poor finishing occasionally, but the rest of his game more than makes up for it.

 

[daba]

Perhaps not the classical Man Utd left winger you mention, but I think Morgan Rogers would make a ton of sense. Ornstein said he was on to watch this summer and I think he makes so much sense for Man Utd.

A) A brilliant option at left wing. Very different to Dorgu. Would allow us to give time to both depending on the game.
B) A good replacement for Bruno long term.
C) It would leave us with Dorgu, Cunha, Rogers, Bruno, Amad, Mbeumo and Sesko, seven players for four positions. Eight including Lacey. With several flexible players.

Bruno will be 32 next season. He is not likely to play every game if we make it into the EL or CL. He could also be an option for Mainoo - if he stays. If we brought in Baleba/Anderson + one more midfielder, we would actually have pretty decent depth to the squad.

Morgan Rogers actually reminds me of Steven Gerrard.

I see a lot of Cunha in Rogers, with his confidence, stature, strength on the ball and ability to score screamers. Only thing is he normally plays wider than Cunha which suits him as he probably has better 1v1 ability compared to Cunha’s more powerful, almost scrappy take ons which is so effective in the middle. I haven’t played football manager 2026, but I imagine they have pretty similar profiles.

If we are going to splash hard on another forward player this summer I’d put Rogers right up there along with Diomande and Yildiz, with Rogers being the safest option but maybe the least potential (although maybe that is just me being anti-English and finding foreign unknowns more exciting).

 

[Jeffthered]

All these names quoted,and I wouldn't pick any of them ahead of Shea Lacey. None of them. Shea Lacey is a good young talent and must be given the chance to play in his natural position. This would not be detrimental to what may be his preference to being (yet another....) left-sided player playing from the right.

Dorgu, Lacey, Amad.. three good, attacking, left-footed players. Three.

And yet we still need to buy another?

Our team has a natural balance with Dorgu on the left side of the forward line. Cunha provides his own quite unique skillset, which is at times frustrating, but also, fabulously devastating.

I think those four players provide enough options for a decent manager.

Why spend zillions on Rodgers etc?

 

[Rozay]

His heat map and shot map suggests otherwise, as well as generally watching him. https://www.sofascore.com/football/player/matheus-cunha/886363#tab:season. I agree Shaw does not provide it, that's why I'd prefer a LB that can overlap over a winger.

Of course he is explicitly a LB, but much like Trent, he is a LB within context. He is literally given license to get into the box and behave like a winger, whilst playing at left back. If you do that, you have to have CBs and midfielders that can cover the space to allow him to do his thing. I'm pretty sure there's a quote from Marcelo that Zidane told him to "go play because Casemiro's got you covered". I just don't see us ever playing like that, certainly not in the short term, it would require a massive overhaul in personnel.

It entirely depends on how you think we're going to play IMO. I think if you have a front 3 these days, they are far more rounded than attackers of the past, unless you set up a team to cover for them. I think what he does higher up the pitch is infinitely better than what he does further back. The games we've seen him play LW and RW, he's had his most effective and best games. It's not really about the screamer, it's his all round play in that position.

What Amad did at wingback doesn't really have any impact on Dorgu though, he's his own player and not really the comparison. Dorgu had some decent games at wingback and a lot of poor ones. Every game he's played as a winger, he's been good. I want to see more of him played at winger as it's his most effective role for us and because so far, he completely deserves his spot.

Which is fine, I disagree, as I haven't seen a good game of him defending or attacking from the fullback position. I have seen him play well as a winger, against top opposition. The others you mentioned have never played well against top level opposition, as a winger. I think Nunes and O'Reilly are FBs because of the nature of Pep's full backs, they are pseduo midfielders.

My point about PSG is they dominate possession and their FBs basically are wingers, you can see from their heatmaps. I'm not sure if you're expecting us to dominate possesion high up the pitch next season, under whoever we end up getting. If we plan to go that way, we are going to need to heavily invest in CMs and CBs that can cover space and dominate possession, rather than a left winger. I can't see how we pivot from how we've been playing, to that, in a summer - unless you sell Fernandes. I don't see that happening either.

I would rather look at how well we've been playing with who we've got, in the positions they've been playing in and add to that. You seem to not rate Cunha or Dorgu long term, which is fine, but I think shunting Dorgu back to LB on the hope he'll be good and playing Cunha off the right will just cause more issues than focussing on the areas that need drastic improvement. I think you're hunting for perfection, in a system we don't even currently play.

I haven’t suggested playing Cunha off the right.

And you are correct in seeing Dorgu play well as a winger - my point was that the sample is incredibly small. The sample of him playing wingback is much bigger, and while I appreciate it is a different position, it of course offers several opportunities for Dorgu to play in attacking situations as a winger. I also don’t think he has been amazing as a winger, he’s had some fantastic highlights in terms of goals, and the question is whether you think that is sustainable or not. Again, I compare him to Amad, even playing as a winger in recent games. I generally don’t think I’ve seen the same quality from Dorgu.

Ultimately, I think your position is not an unreasonable position to take - however, I’m just not convinced that Dorgu has the quality to be a forward for United. I think he meets the lower quality requirement (offensively) to be a very good left back. Coupled with the fact that Cunha himself is not a winger, and I am of the opinion that we need a winger in the squad to complement our collection of forwards. And it appears that the club is certainly want one.

 

[Rozay]

Perhaps not the classical Man Utd left winger you mention, but I think Morgan Rogers would make a ton of sense. Ornstein said he was on to watch this summer and I think he makes so much sense for Man Utd.

A) A brilliant option at left wing. Very different to Dorgu. Would allow us to give time to both depending on the game.
B) A good replacement for Bruno long term.
C) It would leave us with Dorgu, Cunha, Rogers, Bruno, Amad, Mbeumo and Sesko, seven players for four positions. Eight including Lacey. With several flexible players.

Bruno will be 32 next season. He is not likely to play every game if we make it into the EL or CL. He could also be an option for Mainoo - if he stays. If we brought in Baleba/Anderson + one more midfielder, we would actually have pretty decent depth to the squad.

Morgan Rogers actually reminds me of Steven Gerrard.

I think in terms of variety/profile - too similar to Cunha for me. I think to balance the set, you may want a more direct option.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I think in terms of variety/profile - too similar to Cunha for me. I think to balance the set, you may want a more direct option.

Yeah no to Rogers, not for the price he’ll cost. He’s a half space player/carrier like Cunha

 

[Lash]

I haven’t suggested playing Cunha off the right.

And you are correct in seeing Dorgu play well as a winger - my point was that the sample is incredibly small. The sample of him playing wingback is much bigger, and while I appreciate it is a different position, it of course offers several opportunities for Dorgu to play in attacking situations as a winger. I also don’t think he has been amazing as a winger, he’s had some fantastic highlights in terms of goals, and the question is whether you think that is sustainable or not. Again, I compare him to Amad, even playing as a winger in recent games. I generally don’t think I’ve seen the same quality from Dorgu.

Ultimately, I think your position is not an unreasonable position to take - however, I’m just not convinced that Dorgu has the quality to be a forward for United. I think he meets the lower quality requirement (offensively) to be a very good left back. Coupled with the fact that Cunha himself is not a winger, and I am of the opinion that we need a winger in the squad to complement our collection of forwards. And it appears that the club is certainly want one.

I think that's a fair position too, I just hope that doesn't mean we go and spend 100m on someone like Diomande first. I think we can get a good profile of player without having to pursue a big ticket transfer. It would be way down on my list to get over the line, I'm certainly not against signing a winger.

 

[Rozay]

I think that's a fair position too, I just hope that doesn't mean we go and spend 100m on someone like Diomande first. I think we can get a good profile of player without having to pursue a big ticket transfer. It would be way down on my list to get over the line, I'm certainly not against signing a winger.

I definitely see it as the next priority after midfield personally. I think one of my main issues is that I don’t really see the Cunha situation as long-term sustainable. It was always an obvious issue when we signed him. I think he was the first/only player we have signed that is really wedded to Amorim-Ball. We would need to really adjust our team around him in a more conventional 433, and he’ll have quite a task on his hands over the next couple of years if justifying that.
He doesn’t really have a proper position to me. I think fans often simplify and just say ‘let’s have a fluid front-three’, but I’m not sure that really works successfully. You’d have to get very lucky with chemistry to just tell your front trio to just go and do what they want. Today first half, Cunha was largely centre forward. Mbeumo on the right, where he isn’t really great.

It will probably be a conversation for a year or two away, but all of our options on the left seem like ‘options’, rather than natural fits. Even with top players, balance is key. It’s a question at a club like Real Madrid for example - with Mbappé and Vinicius probably both optimised from the left. There’s been a constant conversation of whether they need a ‘proper centre forward’. Off the top of my head, most of the other great front 3s were more fixed. Liverpool spent years with Salah playing every week in his best position on the right, Mane in his best position on the left, and Firmino where suited him best. I don’t see Cunha as a long term solution who will be a first choice left sider for years, and I don’t see Dorgu as a viable 40 game a season United forward. As one of the players in the squad that can come in, no problem. My issue is, Cunha should probably be in that category too IMO.

 

[Xaviboy]

So far going for PL proven players is working out with bringing in Cunha and Mbeumo, id keep with that and go for Anthony Gordon for Left side if we can get him.

He works hard, good work rate and is forward and direct.

Can play down the middle as well.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

I want an end product merchant, similar to Mbeumo.

 

[Rozay]

Yildiz has just extended his deal at Juve, so that’s one off the list.

 

[NoPace]

So far going for PL proven players is working out with bringing in Cunha and Mbeumo, id keep with that and go for Anthony Gordon for Left side if we can get him.

He works hard, good work rate and is forward and direct.

Can play down the middle as well.

Gordon hasn't scored enough goals for a guy who isn't that creative a playmaker (crosses or passes).

I'd say the most similar (right-footed, we have lefties) profile to Cunha and Mbuemo was Semenyo by a mile, but with him gone, Schade is now 17 in 55 the last 2 years at Brentford is probably closer to being a proven wide goalscorer with upside and would presumably be useful against high lines or from the bench with a lead right away because of his incredible pace.

 

[NoPace]

Yildiz has just extended his deal at Juve, so that’s one off the list.

He's probably best as a #10, right? If Bruno stays for 2 more seasons after this one, Yildiz will have 2 years left and be 22 years old, might be the logical target for a playmaker we will need (unless Mainoo thrives offensively and we go with more of a 4-3-3).

 

[Rozay]

Gordon hasn't scored enough goals for a guy who isn't that creative a playmaker (crosses or passes).

I'd say the most similar (right-footed, we have lefties) profile to Cunha and Mbuemo was Semenyo by a mile, but with him gone, Schade is now 17 in 55 the last 2 years at Brentford is probably closer to being a proven wide goalscorer with upside and would presumably be useful against high lines or from the bench with a lead right away because of his incredible pace.

Schade would be a good option for the profile we need I think. An option in the collection, a direct threat with speed. Just not sure about exactly where his quality level is.