The 'Let's be Positive Thread'

VanGaalEra

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
13,189
Now, I know it's mostly doom and gloom and we're all crying together that Sancho hasn't joined, but let's look at positives from the window:

1. LB Signed - an attacking LB who has good output going forward should give us another dimension in attack and balance well with AWB on the opposite wing.
2. Cavani for bench strength - signing Cavani gives us an excellent option off the bench and to cover Martial when needed. Good timing with Martial red card. Should help us score late goals and pick up valuable points off the bench and gives us a focal point.
3. Donny - I think this was an excellent signing. Looks a good players and again adds much needed depth to the squad also. Andreas out, Donny in, big plus?
4. Signing of exciting young talents, now I don't know about all of you, but I'm excited about signing the new Messi in Diallo and Pellestri (still need to watch Youtube videos on him). Looking forward to seeing them in action.
5. Not being taken for a ride in the market (not bowing down to Barca wanting permanent deal for Dembele, ditto Sarr) and also not paying what we thought was over the odds for Sancho (:()

We've started the season badly, but let's not forget we were top of the form table for the final 14 games last season and we've retained the core of that squad.

We started the season massively under prepared, fitness wise, IMO and it's shown but after the International break this should be rectified and I think we can go on a run in the league, even with the difficult fixtures coming up.

What say you?
 

Bilbo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
10,379
I say we should always try to be positive, but this is not the forum for that.
 

GazTheLegend

Full Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
1,674
If we win the next four games, all is forgotten.

I'm excited about our signings. Don't care what anyone says, Traore looks the bomb. Messi like control of a football.

Cavani is an upgrade on Ighalo and one that was badly needed. His mentality will be important to the likes of Greenwood Martial and Rashford
 

trafford1980

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
242
Now, I know it's mostly doom and gloom and we're all crying together that Sancho hasn't joined, but let's look at positives from the window:

1. LB Signed - an attacking LB who has good output going forward should give us another dimension in attack and balance well with AWB on the opposite wing.
2. Cavani for bench strength - signing Cavani gives us an excellent option off the bench and to cover Martial when needed. Good timing with Martial red card. Should help us score late goals and pick up valuable points off the bench and gives us a focal point.
3. Donny - I think this was an excellent signing. Looks a good players and again adds much needed depth to the squad also. Andreas out, Donny in, big plus?
4. Signing of exciting young talents, now I don't know about all of you, but I'm excited about signing the new Messi in Diallo and Pellestri (still need to watch Youtube videos on him). Looking forward to seeing them in action.
5. Not being taken for a ride in the market (not bowing down to Barca wanting permanent deal for Dembele, ditto Sarr) and also not paying what we thought was over the odds for Sancho (:()

We've started the season badly, but let's not forget we were top of the form table for the final 14 games last season and we've retained the core of that squad.

We started the season massively under prepared, fitness wise, IMO and it's shown but after the International break this should be rectified and I think we can go on a run in the league, even with the difficult fixtures coming up.

What say you?
Totally agree with you.

I've also seen Cavani play a load of matches coming from wide-right, so he's not just a focal point.

I like to think he can be a classier, latter-years Dirk Kuyt, type option for us off the bench.

He can hopefully compete with Greenwood for that position and allow Mason to replace Marital centrally at times too.
 

GenZRed

Full Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
457
Donny is a fantastic signing. Not keen on Cavani but if it works out then fair enough. Traore can't play until January.

Pellestri is one for the future, along with Traore, I guess.

We do need to improve on the pitch though and to be honest nothing will change this season. We seriously need to improve our coaching and if that means throwing out all/most of our coaches and bringing in new people, so be it.

I think it is better to be realist instead of viewing things though optimistic/pessimistic frame.
 

spiriticon

Full Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
3,100
I'm excited to see the width that Telles can bring and also to see some proper target man play from Cavani.

We are too narrow on the pitch.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
5,859
If Ole can get the team organised and less open then I do not see why we cannot do well this season.

There are two sides to every argument. Cavani might give us leadership, lift the dressing room. The scoreline against Spurs was probably good for us because we have been flirting with danger ever since the Southampton and West Ham game.

We were cut open in those games, continued this season v Palace and Brighton. This scoreline now means we have to make changes. Obviously it hurts and it is bad but lets not forget football is a weird game.

Southampton lost 9-1 and then went alot more defensive and done very well last season.

Conte lost first few games when managing Chelsea and a big defeat meant a change in formation.

This is what we needed because we all saw how open we are and getting away with it to a certain extent. I want to see us solid defensively, win the next few games 1-0 and take it from there.
 

ovoxo

Full Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
1,149
Here here! @VanGaalEra

Good post! Positivity never hurts anybody. Hopefully we can kick on after the break.
 

GlasgowCeltic

Full Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
769
Totally agree with you.

I've also seen Cavani play a load of matches coming from wide-right, so he's not just a focal point.

I like to think he can be a classier, latter-years Dirk Kuyt, type option for us off the bench.

He can hopefully compete with Greenwood for that position and allow Mason to replace Marital centrally at times too.
Sticking him on the right is just setting him up to fail
 

VanGaalEra

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
13,189
Nice to see the positive posts!

Also, it means we can continue the development of Greenwood and he can further his game this season.

You'd expect the likes Rashford, Martial and AWB to improve this season and I expect DDG to be much better also!
 

DevilRed

Full Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2011
Messages
10,320
Location
Stretford End
Totally agree with you.

I've also seen Cavani play a load of matches coming from wide-right, so he's not just a focal point.

I like to think he can be a classier, latter-years Dirk Kuyt, type option for us off the bench.

He can hopefully compete with Greenwood for that position and allow Mason to replace Marital centrally at times too.
Yes he played both right and left wing under laurent blanc for a season or two.

He does provide flexibility in that sense, but not sure how much pace is left in his legs. Nonetheless, he would be more natural on the right wing than say someone like Martial or Greenwood.
 

MUFC OK

Full Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
2,320
We must find momentum and confidence, fast. Negativity breeds more negativity and we as fans play a big part in that. Exact same thing happened with Jose - yes he wasn't backed but he finished 2nd and those players did not become shit overnight. We got the bounce when Ole joined and it took us a long way.
 

MUFC OK

Full Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
2,320
Nice to see the positive posts!

Also, it means we can continue the development of Greenwood and he can further his game this season.

You'd expect the likes Rashford, Martial and AWB to improve this season and I expect DDG to be much better also!
Harry Redknapp was saying yesterday that he's not sure Sancho is necessarily better than Greenwood or Rashford long term, and I have to agree. One thing is for sure though - they will not perform under the cloud of negativity that has been generated - no one will.
 

sullydnl

Ross Kemp's caf ID
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
22,133
1) The two young kids could turn out to be future superstars for all we know.

2) Cavani offers more than Ighalo.

3) Telles in and Dalot out can only improve our fullback options.

4) Suspect VDB is a very good player, he just needs to find a place in the team.

5) Mason Greenwood will get far more than enough gametime.

6) Unlikely to have a worse result this season than a 6-1 loss to Spurs, so the worst may well be over.

7) If we do end up sacking Solskjaer at some point, we'll still be in a better position squad-wise than when he took over imo. And Poch (who was presumably our first choice before Solskjaer won the job) is still available if we still want him.
 

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
32,782
It's a much better transfer window than last summer simply because we haven't spunked £150m down the drain just because they're "better than what we have".

The strategy seems to be a bit more calculated and will pay off more in the long term. Pogba is probably off next summer and we've already replaced him, without finding ourselves with our pants down next summer.

Excited to see how these guys perform over the couple of years.
 

Mart1974

harbours delusions of insignificance
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
2,067
Well said OP. We didn't get Sancho but we have made some useful additions. I think Cavani will be an astute buy to provide depth and bring along the younger strikers DVB looks good for breaking down locked defenses and we have an attacking fullback. If we can get Bruno and Matic to kiss and make up and Harry's mind back on football then we can do some damage.
 

jackal&hyde

Full Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
2,026
Now, I know it's mostly doom and gloom and we're all crying together that Sancho hasn't joined, but let's look at positives from the window:

1. LB Signed - an attacking LB who has good output going forward should give us another dimension in attack and balance well with AWB on the opposite wing.
2. Cavani for bench strength - signing Cavani gives us an excellent option off the bench and to cover Martial when needed. Good timing with Martial red card. Should help us score late goals and pick up valuable points off the bench and gives us a focal point.
3. Donny - I think this was an excellent signing. Looks a good players and again adds much needed depth to the squad also. Andreas out, Donny in, big plus?
4. Signing of exciting young talents, now I don't know about all of you, but I'm excited about signing the new Messi in Diallo and Pellestri (still need to watch Youtube videos on him). Looking forward to seeing them in action.
5. Not being taken for a ride in the market (not bowing down to Barca wanting permanent deal for Dembele, ditto Sarr) and also not paying what we thought was over the odds for Sancho (:()

We've started the season badly, but let's not forget we were top of the form table for the final 14 games last season and we've retained the core of that squad.

We started the season massively under prepared, fitness wise, IMO and it's shown but after the International break this should be rectified and I think we can go on a run in the league, even with the difficult fixtures coming up.

What say you?
I say good post.

We'll get our match fitness and after a few wins and good performances we will forget about the difficult start.
 

SpaceAttacker

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
20
The team is better than it was at the end of the last season.

I've long wanted to see an elite striker at the club. The last one we had was Ibrahimovich, and even in his sunset, he was thrilling to watch. Cavani might have a similar impact, and I, for one can't wait to see him start.

I don't know what's wrong with our defence right now, but I'd guess it's some combination of our captain still not being in the right headspace, and the whole group suffering a slight hangover from the end of last season. It might even be new tactics. We seem to be playing a lot narrower, giving the opposition's wingers a lot of space.

Whatever it may be, the personnel, even if not elite, have proven themselves to be tough to break down.

The only thing I'm worried about is Ole. If his head goes down, the team will suffer. But, he too has shown resilience, overcoming a massive deficit to finish third last season, ahead of teams, that at different points of the season seemed far, far better - title contenders even.

This is the team we have, so let's back them to the hilt. Things can change very quickly in football as this weekend proved.
 

Judge Red

Don't Call Me Douglas
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
4,259
If Everton humiliate Liverpool in the next match, the season is getting cancelled.
 

Lentwood

Full Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
3,352
Location
West Didsbury, Manchester
There's no point trying to be positive on this forum, too many FIFA playing teenagers who want to know why we haven't just 'packed' a legendary Messi or whatever
 

Matthew84!

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
89
Well being positive about, things go bad the team ends top 10, glazers make no money and sell up, Could end up being brilliant in the long run or we could just scrap top 4 and it continues as it is :)
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
6,407
If Ole can get the team organised and less open then I do not see why we cannot do well this season.

There are two sides to every argument. Cavani might give us leadership, lift the dressing room. The scoreline against Spurs was probably good for us because we have been flirting with danger ever since the Southampton and West Ham game.

We were cut open in those games, continued this season v Palace and Brighton. This scoreline now means we have to make changes. Obviously it hurts and it is bad but lets not forget football is a weird game.

Southampton lost 9-1 and then went alot more defensive and done very well last season.

Conte lost first few games when managing Chelsea and a big defeat meant a change in formation.

This is what we needed because we all saw how open we are and getting away with it to a certain extent. I want to see us solid defensively, win the next few games 1-0 and take it from there.
This is the million pound question isn't it? This is the biggest issue I have with him. Not him as a person or a manager either. He cannot get them organised since he has been here. It may be his coaches but ultimately he is responsible for them too. Even if we get Poch unless he gets them organised and get them to play as a team, we will not win.
Sometimes I hope we hire Bielsa only to separate the wheat from the chaff.
At the end of the day, the so called deadwood Ole got out gave a lot more effort than the people he kept. You cannot blame Fellaini, Young and Smalling in not giving 100%. Yes they are not as talented as what is left behind.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
5,859
This is the million pound question isn't it? This is the biggest issue I have with him. Not him as a person or a manager either. He cannot get them organised since he has been here. It may be his coaches but ultimately he is responsible for them too. Even if we get Poch unless he gets them organised and get them to play as a team, we will not win.
Sometimes I hope we hire Bielsa only to separate the wheat from the chaff.
At the end of the day, the so called deadwood Ole got out gave a lot more effort than the people he kept. You cannot blame Fellaini, Young and Smalling in not giving 100%. Yes they are not as talented as what is left behind.
Yes it is, honestly I cannot see him getting us organised. The issues I see about organisation?

1. Our full backs are always out of position, constantly being dragged away? Is it Luke Shaw / AWB's instruction to follow the player or cover space?

2. Bruno - Is he meant to press alonside Martial? If so then why is one pass behind him always available?

3. Rashford and Greenwood - why are they not tracking? You cannot leave Martial, Bruno, Rashford and Greenwood up top.

4. Pogba & Matic - We are having 4 players not tracking which means Pogba has to cover alot of ground which they cannot do.

I love a team that presses well, the one thing that has always stuck by me from Pep's Barca team, as soon as you lose the ball, get it back within 4 seconds. Which means lose the ball and 2/3 mans press and if you do not get the ball in 4 seconds, everyone should go back into shape making it hard to break down.

Why do we find it hard to break low blocks down? Because when the opponent has possession, there are no gaps, 10 men are in a structure.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
5,009
It's a much better transfer window than last summer simply because we haven't spunked £150m down the drain just because they're "better than what we have".

The strategy seems to be a bit more calculated and will pay off more in the long term. Pogba is probably off next summer and we've already replaced him, without finding ourselves with our pants down next summer.

Excited to see how these guys perform over the couple of years.
Would you consider swapping Pogba for Saul next summer as he can play more of a DLP role but obviously isn't a natural DM in the same way of someone like Rice/Fabinho.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

Full Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
2,240
I’m genuinely excited to see Telles give us an attacking threat from Fullback, I’m hoping for an Evra underrated impact.

I’m also very keen to see Cavani play as I have liked him since his Napoli days & in a silo like the signing.

My positivity ends there.
 

Paul_Scholes18

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
8,507
I think we are one good coach/manager and one top right winger away from a real title challenge. Maybe deluded, but I think our squad is good if we can sort things out as a team.
Also my feeling that Liverpool and City are weaker than last seasons feels justified too. Might not take 95 points to win it.
For this season we could maybe push for a cup and do alright in the league and get top 4. If Ole don't sort things out he needs to go though.
 

Ødegaard

formerly MrEriksen
Scout
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
10,674
Location
Norway
The only positive thing with the club at the moment is the charity work and that the club didn't furlough the workers.
The rest is terrible.
 

Le Red

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
1,254
Any piece of opinion that contains the words "new Messi" isn't optimistic, it's delusional.
 

Mickeza

still gets no respect
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
3,888
Location
Deepthroating information to Howard Nurse.
If the budget was only 50m net then I don’t think we could have spent it much better considering we couldn’t shift anyone out. We have 3/6 players we need to challenge and 2 youngsters - one of which looks genuinely top quality. Unfortunately the ridiculous wages and money we’ve spent on mediocrity over the last 8 years came home to roost in this window. We still have a good first 11 in theory and quite a bit of depth - it’s time to get on with the season.
 

Teja

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
667
Location
Boston, MA
I'm with you. Our issues last season were a result of our shit squad depth. We played half the season without 2-3 of Pogba, Rashford, Bruno or Martial - our four best players and still put up a decent total on the board.

Because of our signings now:

1. We don't have to put out Williams in high pressure games when Shaw is out. Also additional depth at LB.
2. Hopefully won't see Lingard / Pereira in any match that's even remotely competitive - Bruno and VdB will rotate fine.
3. Ighalo is a loan until Jan and I'm happy with Cavani being back up for Martial for a year or two and see if we can poach Haaland from BvB. Reminder that we didn't have Ighalo at all until Jan and Rashford was pretty gash upfront when he played there while Martial was injured.

We know RW is a deficiency. We could've done better here and gone for our second choice option when it was clear that Sancho wasn't coming instead of waiting till 1 week before the deadline. We did make a decent offer by all accounts (~100m) and it didn't get accepted. You deal with that and let Greenwood grow into that RW role and re-evaluate again next summer.

For me our season hinges on:

- Will Greenwood + Mata + James adequately cover our RW this season? Keeping in mind that adequate is solid top four, I don't think we have title aspirations yet.
- Can Rashford rediscover his pre-injury form? I'm backing him to do so, but rose tinted goggles and all that.
- Can we preserve Matic for the important games and rely on McTominay to step up against the rest of the teams? I'm not confident but we'll see.
 

Beachryan

More helpful with spreadsheets than Phurry
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
8,850
I think in the cold light of day (read: 24 hours after the window slammed shut) that the actual business isn't terrible by any means.

VDB - Was off to Madrid, now he's here. Looks like guaranteed goals from midfield
Cavani - Miles better than Ighalo, an actual centre forward that can play in the box and a real threat if we need goals. Also, by waiting til the end of the window, slashed his wages and agent's fee.
Telles - Superb attacking LB, no idea if he can defend, but Luke was doing neither, so is what it is
Diallo - No idea, supposed to be good though and plays a position we actually need
Pellistri - No idea, see above

Sancho - if the Guardian reporting is right and the total package was really 250m I genuinely believe we're justified in not going that high. He's not proven, yet, and while it made a great deal of sense given our needs and his profile, that's just too much. We're going to lose as much as 90m of matchday for just 12 months of no fans, and who knows how long that will go. I see no world where he goes for 120m next summer, personally.

DMF - Still feels a huge gap, desperately need Fred or McT to prove they can offer something to protect the defense. Because
CB - If Maguire doesn't sort himself out we're f*cked.
 

Glorio

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
344
Now, I know it's mostly doom and gloom and we're all crying together that Sancho hasn't joined, but let's look at positives from the window:

1. LB Signed - an attacking LB who has good output going forward should give us another dimension in attack and balance well with AWB on the opposite wing.
2. Cavani for bench strength - signing Cavani gives us an excellent option off the bench and to cover Martial when needed. Good timing with Martial red card. Should help us score late goals and pick up valuable points off the bench and gives us a focal point.
3. Donny - I think this was an excellent signing. Looks a good players and again adds much needed depth to the squad also. Andreas out, Donny in, big plus?
4. Signing of exciting young talents, now I don't know about all of you, but I'm excited about signing the new Messi in Diallo and Pellestri (still need to watch Youtube videos on him). Looking forward to seeing them in action.
5. Not being taken for a ride in the market (not bowing down to Barca wanting permanent deal for Dembele, ditto Sarr) and also not paying what we thought was over the odds for Sancho (:()

We've started the season badly, but let's not forget we were top of the form table for the final 14 games last season and we've retained the core of that squad.

We started the season massively under prepared, fitness wise, IMO and it's shown but after the International break this should be rectified and I think we can go on a run in the league, even with the difficult fixtures coming up.

What say you?
So I was what I'd call a controlled kind of annoyed after the window shut.
However .... Just go and watch those YouTube clips and I promise you they'll put a massive smile across your face.

Yes, it's YouTube so you can't take it at face value but the dribbling and pace of both youngsters will have you dizzy just watching.
Unsure of their end product at this point and how little both players look, but those bits will come.

For the present, with Telles, Rashford will have a field day, because the opposition will have no idea who to mark on the left, and I pity the opposing side with a RW who won't be prepared to track back all game.

VDB has made a positive impact whenever he's come on, and left to me, he should be knocking on the door to start.

Cavani ... Still really disappointed with that one, and I'm unsure the feeling will go away until he starts banging in goals, and as a staunch member of Martial FC I become agonisingly torn between which one of them I'd like to see spearheading the attack. That would be great! For now though, just not interested
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
5,009
I think in the cold light of day (read: 24 hours after the window slammed shut) that the actual business isn't terrible by any means.

VDB - Was off to Madrid, now he's here. Looks like guaranteed goals from midfield
Cavani - Miles better than Ighalo, an actual centre forward that can play in the box and a real threat if we need goals. Also, by waiting til the end of the window, slashed his wages and agent's fee.
Telles - Superb attacking LB, no idea if he can defend, but Luke was doing neither, so is what it is
Diallo - No idea, supposed to be good though and plays a position we actually need
Pellistri - No idea, see above

Sancho - if the Guardian reporting is right and the total package was really 250m I genuinely believe we're justified in not going that high. He's not proven, yet, and while it made a great deal of sense given our needs and his profile, that's just too much. We're going to lose as much as 90m of matchday for just 12 months of no fans, and who knows how long that will go. I see no world where he goes for 120m next summer, personally.

DMF - Still feels a huge gap, desperately need Fred or McT to prove they can offer something to protect the defense. Because
CB - If Maguire doesn't sort himself out we're f*cked.
I think in the cold light of day (read: 24 hours after the window slammed shut) that the actual business isn't terrible by any means.

VDB - Was off to Madrid, now he's here. Looks like guaranteed goals from midfield
Cavani - Miles better than Ighalo, an actual centre forward that can play in the box and a real threat if we need goals. Also, by waiting til the end of the window, slashed his wages and agent's fee.
Telles - Superb attacking LB, no idea if he can defend, but Luke was doing neither, so is what it is
Diallo - No idea, supposed to be good though and plays a position we actually need
Pellistri - No idea, see above

Sancho - if the Guardian reporting is right and the total package was really 250m I genuinely believe we're justified in not going that high. He's not proven, yet, and while it made a great deal of sense given our needs and his profile, that's just too much. We're going to lose as much as 90m of matchday for just 12 months of no fans, and who knows how long that will go. I see no world where he goes for 120m next summer, personally.

DMF - Still feels a huge gap, desperately need Fred or McT to prove they can offer something to protect the defense. Because
CB - If Maguire doesn't sort himself out we're f*cked.
Ole's obsession with thinking Fred & McTominay are good enough to cover Matic really frustrates me so much, in regards to Harry I really hope he can sort himself out because clearly what happened in Greece is affecting his game.
 

Falcow

Full Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Messages
710
Location
Dublin
I think we are one good coach/manager and one top right winger away from a real title challenge. Maybe deluded, but I think our squad is good if we can sort things out as a team.
Also my feeling that Liverpool and City are weaker than last seasons feels justified too. Might not take 95 points to win it.
For this season we could maybe push for a cup and do alright in the league and get top 4. If Ole don't sort things out he needs to go though.
Agree with you. Ole cannot keeping playing g Pogba Matic in midfield and the same 4 players in front of them. It ain't working. Its worr6that he doesnt see this.

Biggest positive is that we are nowhere near as bad as last 3 games would suggest. But again that is partly based on picking a different team that the one he religiously sticks to no matter what.
 

P-Nut

fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
17,547
Location
Oldham, Greater Manchester
Agree with you. Ole cannot keeping playing g Pogba Matic in midfield and the same 4 players in front of them. It ain't working. Its worr6that he doesnt see this.

Biggest positive is that we are nowhere near as bad as last 3 games would suggest. But again that is partly based on picking a different team that the one he religiously sticks to no matter what.
That's the side that was blowing teams out of the water after the restart. The problem with it at the moment is that neither Martial or Pogba look anywhere near fit. And Matic hasn't got the legs to do 2 players running.

We'll come back sharper after the internationals no doubt and can hopefully kick start our season.

There isn't a top 6 side that hasn't lost a game yet so we're only 1 result behind as long as we win that game in hand.