Championship level management. This is truly embarrassing.
The Make A Fecking Sub Ole Thread
- Thread starter TwoSheds
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
I agree entirely. Ole has terrible in game management.
Unless he changes something this is only going to end one way.
Fergie never liked subs before around 70 mins. Always said the starting players deserved 70 mins to influence the game, clear Ole feels the same.
Edit : Thank god, four changes!
4 subs at once - Cavani fernandes shaw and mcTominay
he blew his load with one goAsk and you shall receive, 4 changes at once.
This is insane. Absolutely insane.
Literally posted as we make 4 changes.
Ah, the misfortune of watching on a stream a few minutes behind.
How has Fred survived?
He obviously thinks there as shite as we do. How the feck Fred escaped the cull I don’t know
Yeah haha.Literally posted as we make 4 changes.
Ah, the misfortune of watching on a stream a few minutes behind.
Still, when you watch our first half, these changes should have been made at half time. VDB was a straight one, did nothing first half.
And clearly, Greenwood and Martial were too light in attack.
But I'm quite happy with the subs. I'd have left Pogba and got Fred our instead, but Pogba is probably not fit to play a full game yet.
Had pogba not been just back from injury he wouldn't have.
McFred best midfield.
Pogba at half fitness is still a better option than Fred on his best day.
Got any more of them substitutes?
Two of the five should have been made proactively at half time. All top managers have the crucial ability to change things during the course of a game when things aren't going their way - it is shocking that Ole as a super sub himself seems to be severely lacking in this department. We should have been attacking them right out of the blocks in the second half.
I understand he is crippled by injuries, the need to rest top players - but this is a QF before an international break - this is when you go hell for leather for 45 more minutes.
First the CL, then the FA Cup - Ole's reluctance to bring Fred off has cost us two major competitions this year.
I understand he is crippled by injuries, the need to rest top players - but this is a QF before an international break - this is when you go hell for leather for 45 more minutes.
First the CL, then the FA Cup - Ole's reluctance to bring Fred off has cost us two major competitions this year.
How on earth can you ever trust him to make the right subs after what we saw today
Hes not proactive with his subs, which is bizarre given how much Fergie used to say Ole would sit there, study the game and when he brought Ole on, Ole knew where the weaknesses were to exploit to win us a game or score a goal (or get into a position to get a chance).
He made a career as a player but is reluctant to make changes unless its forced on him or we are losing. At 1-1, we should have made a change or two at half time given the way the game was going. We had once chance and scored it but Leicester were in control. Fred (most likely given the game he was having ) or Matic (since he cant run) should have come off.
Its a shame because you saw how the sub vs Milan changed the game completely for us (but again, that was forced on him)
He made a career as a player but is reluctant to make changes unless its forced on him or we are losing. At 1-1, we should have made a change or two at half time given the way the game was going. We had once chance and scored it but Leicester were in control. Fred (most likely given the game he was having ) or Matic (since he cant run) should have come off.
Its a shame because you saw how the sub vs Milan changed the game completely for us (but again, that was forced on him)
Game and game again he plays his starting IX for a full 90 mins, reticent to sub any fresh legs in because he doesn't trust them to come on the impact a game, and then has the cheek to complain about fixture congestion.
I have zero sympathies for a self-created problem. If VdB, Telles, etc was used more off the bench, the likes of Fred and McTominay would be less fatigued; as would Bruno, etc. It's okay saying, "well, we need these players on because they can make something happen even if they're having a bad game", but you're shooting yourself in the foot. The short-term benefit of an individual moment in one game is not better than the preservation of energy and benefit expended over future cumulative matches.
Don't rotate, don't substitute? Then don't complain.
I have zero sympathies for a self-created problem. If VdB, Telles, etc was used more off the bench, the likes of Fred and McTominay would be less fatigued; as would Bruno, etc. It's okay saying, "well, we need these players on because they can make something happen even if they're having a bad game", but you're shooting yourself in the foot. The short-term benefit of an individual moment in one game is not better than the preservation of energy and benefit expended over future cumulative matches.
Don't rotate, don't substitute? Then don't complain.
He needs to be flexible around subs because there are times where you need to be proactive rather than just reactive
Fred looking like a real goal threat again. I for one think we should wait til the 80th minute to make a sub.
We are clueless since 60 minutes and he sits there with no ideas 
Goal doesnt to change it, we still need a sub.
Why is Ole not asked this question? He just doesn’t make any substitutions at times - people should be asking why
Just leave it.. Why bother us with negativity? Keep it for yourself!We are clueless since 60 minutes and he sits there with no ideas
Just need to ask a question ...
You people do realize that we destroyed Brighton in the second half - won 12-0 on goal attempts in those 45 minutes and won the game ? So he is a very lucky man that his players lift themselves time and time again
You people do realize that we destroyed Brighton in the second half - won 12-0 on goal attempts in those 45 minutes and won the game ? So he is a very lucky man that his players lift themselves time and time again
First time in a long time I felt he got all the subs and their timing absolutely perfect. The management of the entire second half was just top notch.
This is a very strange statistic or this is a very strange thread - the list of goals from substitutes in the PL this season:
1. Manchester United – 9
2. Liverpool – 6
3. Chelsea – 5
4. Newcastle – 4
4. West Ham – 4
4. Crystal Palace – 4
4. Sheffield United – 4
8. Arsenal – 3
8. Leicester – 3
8. Tottenham – 3
8. Fulham – 3
8. Aston Villa – 3
8. Wolverhampton – 3
8. Southampton – 3
15. Leeds – 2
15. Brighton – 2
15. West Bromwich – 2
18. Everton – 1
18. Manchester City – 1
20. Burnley – 0
So how does anyone figure Pep is better than Ole at making a fecking sub when Ole has gotten 9 direct goals out of his substitutions while Pep has gotten a measly one? For instance. There is of course the argument that not all the effect of substitutions comes as direct goal, yes, but then again - Ole is fecking best in class at making a scoring sub. There is no one even close.
Time to close thread?
1. Manchester United – 9
2. Liverpool – 6
3. Chelsea – 5
4. Newcastle – 4
4. West Ham – 4
4. Crystal Palace – 4
4. Sheffield United – 4
8. Arsenal – 3
8. Leicester – 3
8. Tottenham – 3
8. Fulham – 3
8. Aston Villa – 3
8. Wolverhampton – 3
8. Southampton – 3
15. Leeds – 2
15. Brighton – 2
15. West Bromwich – 2
18. Everton – 1
18. Manchester City – 1
20. Burnley – 0
So how does anyone figure Pep is better than Ole at making a fecking sub when Ole has gotten 9 direct goals out of his substitutions while Pep has gotten a measly one? For instance. There is of course the argument that not all the effect of substitutions comes as direct goal, yes, but then again - Ole is fecking best in class at making a scoring sub. There is no one even close.
Time to close thread?
Well, fans of the club are hardly surprised. He was the master of sideline analysis and sub impact himself - on several occasions as a late sub.
Yeah, 50% more goals from subs than the second team.
I think different people have different ideas about the how, when, and who of substitutions and then gripe when Ole doesn't do it the way they'd like. And really, any time someone second guesses Ole, they really have no idea how things would have panned out had he done things differently, they can still only guess. Things could have gone from bad to worse.
Results say Ole gets it right far more often than not.
I know, which was kind of what I expected, and indeed think I’ve seen. At the same time it seems someone have spun a parallell narrative that doesn’t really add up.
I think once the idea creeps into someone’s head that something might be a problem, it will be very easily confirmed on an emotional and intuitional level. If someone says Maguire is slow, you will notice his not running faster than a striker everytime you see it, and you’ll never really notice how seldom we actually let in a goal because Maguire is beaten for pace (almost never) as compared to, say John Stones (beaten by Stuart Dallas at the weekend).
I can’t really remember a coach who has made more effective changes from the bench than Ole. It’s clearly one of his strengths, not weaknesses.
it’s all on his little screen there in front of him!
That doesn’t surprise me one bit, the guy was the master of making an impact off the bench!
This article includes assists as well. Funny that, I am also of the mind that Ole leaves things late or just plain refuses to make changes.
I guess these stats just puts things into perspective, how other teams compare. Easy to get frustrated when things aren't working on the pitch.
https://www.football365.com/news/pr...man-utd-liverpool-solskjaer-klopp-cavani-jota
I think you’ve got a point there with frustration. One thing is certain - probabilitywise, any manager who tends to make early substitutions has a much better chance at getting good stats for subs with goals/assists - as his subs have more playing time to acheive it. So when Ole’s subs produce more than Klopps and Peps subs, either it’s an emotional fallacy that he actually waits longer with substitutions, or his stats are even more impressive, to the point of genius-like.
Interestingly enough, Ole (80 subs - 15 goals/assists) makes less substitutions than Klopp (86 - 12) in second and 8 of the 9 other top ten managers on the list. Only Hodgson (78 - 7) makes less subs, and gets a lot less output for it.
Mourinho and Arteta has made 91 and 93 substitutions so far, getting a measly return of 5 and 4 g/a.
Dean Smith (69) and Pep (64) makes less subs than Ole, getting respectively 5 and 4 g/a from their subs. From Guardiola, with that squad depth and his system, that’s 80% as many subs as Ole, with slightly above 25% as many goals and assists - which is frankly shocking.
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