The Make A Fecking Sub Ole Thread

Pickle85

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Can we please add 'but no not that one' to the thread title?
 

TwoSheds

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It wasn't so much the timing of the subs as what he did with them. He brought Fred off with 6 mins to go so he could play Lingard in midfield...makes sense to me.
 

noodlehair

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So as far as I can figure:

He subbed on Dalot for Sancho in order to replace Bissaka as Bissaka had been sent off. Fair enough.

Then, he subbed on Varane for VDB, even though we already had a fully manned defence and this would leave us 2 players down further up the pitch. As a result we then conceded a goal due to having too many players positioned in our own box.

Then, he subbed on Matic to replace VDB, except he'd already subbed off VDB, so instead Matic had to replace Fernandes, so then he also subbed on Lingard to replace Fernandes, except Matic was already replacing Fernandes, so Ronaldo had to come off for Lingard.

Then he subbed on Martial to replace Ronaldo, again, except as he'd already subbed Ronaldo off, he had to sub Martial on for Fred, which meant Ronaldo (now Lingard) had to go and play in Fred's position. Then Lingard, most likely due to not being a midfielder, set up the winning goal for the wrong team.

This is literally what he did.

I mean, people say he is tactically clueless or naive but I think that's wrong, as this infers that what he is doing has some kind of relation to tactics. These are the subs of someone who has no idea what is going on and ends up continuously doing things to try and correct the mess cused by the previous doing of things that they did. If he had simply done nothing at half time and wandered off to explore the sites of Bern for the second half, we'd have had significantly more chance of winning the game.

The worst thing is there'll be all kinds of threads in here and posts on twitter lambasting the players or their mentality, when actually if you just look at the above it pretty much explains what they were up against. Like asking a boxer to win a fight but his trainer is remote conntrolling one of his gloves and keeps using it to accidentally punch him in the balls.
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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So as far as I can figure:

He subbed on Dalot for Sancho in order to replace Bissaka as Bissaka had been sent off. Fair enough.

Then, he subbed on Varane for VDB, even though we already had a fully manned defence and this would leave us 2 players down further up the pitch. As a result we then conceded a goal due to having too many players positioned in our own box.

Then, he subbed on Matic to replace VDB, except he'd already subbed off VDB, so instead Matic had to replace Fernandes, so then he also subbed on Lingard to replace Fernandes, except Matic was already replacing Fernandes, so Ronaldo had to come off for Lingard.

Then he subbed on Martial to replace Ronaldo, again, except as he'd already subbed Ronaldo off, he had to sub Martial on for Fred, which meant Ronaldo (now Lingard) had to go and play in Fred's position. Then Lingard, most likely due to not being a midfielder, set up the winning goal for the wrong team.

This is literally what he did.

I mean, people say he is tactically clueless or naive but I think that's wrong, as this infers that what he is doing has some kind of relation to tactics. These are the subs of someone who has no idea what is going on and ends up continuously doing things to try and correct the mess cused by the previous doing of things that they did. If he had simply done nothing at half time and wandered off to explore the sites of Bern for the second half, we'd have had significantly more chance of winning the game.

The worst thing is there'll be all kinds of threads in here and posts on twitter lambasting the players or their mentality, when actually if you just look at the above it pretty much explains what they were up against. Like asking a boxer to win a fight but his trainer is remote conntrolling one of his gloves and keeps using it to accidentally punch him in the balls.
Great point well made. Although on here you’ll probably get told to go support City.
 

reelworld

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Yes this. How people can make all these conclusions about our loss and ignore the main cause (US BEING DOWN TO 10) boggles the mind :houllier:
Because we weren't down 10 men against a team on the same level. YB was the weakest opponent in our group, even with 10 men, United should managed the game better.
United defensive shape weren't that good. YB could've scored earlier but they were rushing it. But the only reason they finally got the goals was because United kept giving them the ball.
They got braver and braver each with each attack because they know they'll get a chance to try again.
 

Bobcat

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We were 1-0 up against a championship level team with half a billion pounds worth of talent at disposal and we couldn't even shut the shop.

First sub was like for like. That is where he should have subbed Pogba with Varane and drop Sancho as box to box midfielder, put lindelof as RB. Then sub Fred with Greenwood and play him and Ronaldo wide so that they both can stretch their defense. I thought dalot and Shaw will play WB but instead everyone dropped deep leaving Ronaldo alone. That was disastrous management.
They play in the fecking CL. If you think every team thats not English/German/Italian/French/Spanish are somehow "Championship level" you're either spouting shit or just uninformed
 

Godfather

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So as far as I can figure:

He subbed on Dalot for Sancho in order to replace Bissaka as Bissaka had been sent off. Fair enough.

Then, he subbed on Varane for VDB, even though we already had a fully manned defence and this would leave us 2 players down further up the pitch. As a result we then conceded a goal due to having too many players positioned in our own box.

Then, he subbed on Matic to replace VDB, except he'd already subbed off VDB, so instead Matic had to replace Fernandes, so then he also subbed on Lingard to replace Fernandes, except Matic was already replacing Fernandes, so Ronaldo had to come off for Lingard.

Then he subbed on Martial to replace Ronaldo, again, except as he'd already subbed Ronaldo off, he had to sub Martial on for Fred, which meant Ronaldo (now Lingard) had to go and play in Fred's position. Then Lingard, most likely due to not being a midfielder, set up the winning goal for the wrong team.

This is literally what he did.

I mean, people say he is tactically clueless or naive but I think that's wrong, as this infers that what he is doing has some kind of relation to tactics. These are the subs of someone who has no idea what is going on and ends up continuously doing things to try and correct the mess cused by the previous doing of things that they did. If he had simply done nothing at half time and wandered off to explore the sites of Bern for the second half, we'd have had significantly more chance of winning the game.

The worst thing is there'll be all kinds of threads in here and posts on twitter lambasting the players or their mentality, when actually if you just look at the above it pretty much explains what they were up against. Like asking a boxer to win a fight but his trainer is remote conntrolling one of his gloves and keeps using it to accidentally punch him in the balls.
Harsh but fair
 

VanDeBank

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Because we weren't down 10 men against a team on the same level. YB was the weakest opponent in our group, even with 10 men, United should managed the game better.
United defensive shape weren't that good. YB could've scored earlier but they were rushing it. But the only reason they finally got the goals was because United kept giving them the ball.
They got braver and braver each with each attack because they know they'll get a chance to try again.
Wrong. Our shape improved after our sub. And our conceded goals being an unlucky deflection and a brain fart pass kinda show how well we defended. YB created diddly squat themselves.
 

vanrooney

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Of course any team down to 10 men can lose a game. However, that's not my point. Good managers implement a style of play that allows them to manage games even with 10 men. I've seen City under Pep dominate possession even with 10 men. Look at how Tuchel got his Chelsea team to see out the 2nd half against Liverpool, they looked in complete control and were still creating chances.

Top managers are able to find balance in their teams even when going down to 10 men.Ole can't. We went far too defensive leaving Ronaldo isolated.
its only one game and if ronnie scores on the counter its 2-0 and game over. it could have even been a pen. i dont buy this ole has no tactical nous - we did quite well in big games until now. yes, we should not loose today but it was a comical mistake that cost us the game. with a draw with 10 men there wouldnt be such a meltdown imo
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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So as far as I can figure:

He subbed on Dalot for Sancho in order to replace Bissaka as Bissaka had been sent off. Fair enough.

Then, he subbed on Varane for VDB, even though we already had a fully manned defence and this would leave us 2 players down further up the pitch. As a result we then conceded a goal due to having too many players positioned in our own box.

Then, he subbed on Matic to replace VDB, except he'd already subbed off VDB, so instead Matic had to replace Fernandes, so then he also subbed on Lingard to replace Fernandes, except Matic was already replacing Fernandes, so Ronaldo had to come off for Lingard.

Then he subbed on Martial to replace Ronaldo, again, except as he'd already subbed Ronaldo off, he had to sub Martial on for Fred, which meant Ronaldo (now Lingard) had to go and play in Fred's position. Then Lingard, most likely due to not being a midfielder, set up the winning goal for the wrong team.

This is literally what he did.

I mean, people say he is tactically clueless or naive but I think that's wrong, as this infers that what he is doing has some kind of relation to tactics. These are the subs of someone who has no idea what is going on and ends up continuously doing things to try and correct the mess cused by the previous doing of things that they did. If he had simply done nothing at half time and wandered off to explore the sites of Bern for the second half, we'd have had significantly more chance of winning the game.

The worst thing is there'll be all kinds of threads in here and posts on twitter lambasting the players or their mentality, when actually if you just look at the above it pretty much explains what they were up against. Like asking a boxer to win a fight but his trainer is remote conntrolling one of his gloves and keeps using it to accidentally punch him in the balls.
Damning when it's all laid out like that.

He really had no clue how to manage this game.
 

AjaxCunian

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its only one game and if ronnie scores on the counter its 2-0 and game over. it could have even been a pen. i dont buy this ole has no tactical nous - we did quite well in big games until now. yes, we should not loose today but it was a comical mistake that cost us the game. with a draw with 10 men there wouldnt be such a meltdown imo
Have we done quite well in the big games till now you'd say?

Losing so many semi-finals and the one final, losing 7 of the last 11 CL matches and the poor record vs big 6 last season suggest otherwise.
 

Lord Zlatan

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Damning when it's all laid out like that.

He really had no clue how to manage this game.
The second substition and formation change at half time, should have been the first one. After that he was trying to correct the first mistake but each time made it worse
 

reelworld

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Wrong. Our shape improved after our sub. And our conceded goals being an unlucky deflection and a brain fart pass kinda show how well we defended. YB created diddly squat themselves.
They could have had a second goal the minute after they scored the first one, but their striker somehow skied it over the bar.
They have chances, but they weren't patient nor clinical enough.
 

UnitedFan93

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its only one game and if ronnie scores on the counter its 2-0 and game over. it could have even been a pen. i dont buy this ole has no tactical nous - we did quite well in big games until now. yes, we should not loose today but it was a comical mistake that cost us the game. with a draw with 10 men there wouldnt be such a meltdown imo
Result wise we could've got a way with it tonight. It's just disappointing to see us go super defensive with the talent Ole has at his disposal. Apart from the Ronaldo chance, we never crossed the half way line in the second half. His tactics and subs were really poor, and left the team unbalanced. We got what we deserved tonight, fair play to Young Boys.
 

SirMattBugsby

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Well said @noodlehair . I can safely say now that Solskjaer is not good enough to face top teams and he knows it: that's why he goes defensive at the first sign of trouble. Compare this performance to Chelsea's 10 men against Liverpool. He was discussing tactics with Carrick throughout the second half.. compare that to how decisive Benitez was when Everton went 1-0 down to Burnley yesterday.

I'm grateful for what he's done for the club, we've certainly progressed as a team under him, but he's taken it as far as he can.
 

Jaxa

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Shocked this hasn’t been bumped yet,

We need to try something new in this game, inject a bit of pace , personally I’d take Pogba off for Sancho and Greenwood for Lingard
 

arnie_ni

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Just came to bump this myself. The game is drifting. Make a change
 

Jaxa

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Shocked this hasn’t been bumped yet,

We need to try something new in this game, inject a bit of pace , personally I’d take Pogba off for Sancho and Greenwood for Lingard
Ole must be checking this thread for ideas :)
 

ty09cali

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Ole is way too cautious… will not win the title with McFred/Matic double pivot against non-big 6 sides.
 

Leftback99

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Can only imagine the meltdown here if we'd have only drawn after bringing on Matic. It's all so easy with hindsight when we don't win but these are forgotten about.
 

saivet

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Still think he was too slow to make changes and taking of Pogba instead of McFred was a bad move. Matic was strange but Fred was having a mare.
 

RUCK4444

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Matić to Lingard for that 2nd goal, so pretty good impact subs this time :D
This. Surely by this places metrics for managerial ability this was a genius stroke from Ole! :D

Thought we got the selection right, subs were fine, played well, lots of chances and deserved the win.
 

arnie_ni

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Wasn't too sure of them at the time, but in retrospect it was the right subs.
I'd have took Fred off but the 2 players he brought on were the right choices.

Lingard offers more than martial at the moment.
 

MvG

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Can only imagine the meltdown here if we'd have only drawn after bringing on Matic. It's all so easy with hindsight when we don't win but these are forgotten about.
Taking off Pogba instead of Fred was the one for me despite the result. Also thought Greenwood was unlucky to come off but thankfully it worked out. If he takes those two off and we don’t pinch a goal yeah questions will be asked.