The Martinez red card

FriedClams

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I feel this incident deserves its own thread. This is the stupidest decision from a refereeing team I have ever witnessed. What’s even worse about this is that DCL, who was elbowing our players all night and had his hands on Lichas neck, is the one who told the ref he had his hair pulled which resulted in the ref asking VAR to have a look. There’s been lots of awful decisions in the game, VAR is ruining football, this is NOT what it was for. And Gary Neville just cannot be allowed to commentate on our games anymore, I saw his comments and it’s ridiculous.
 
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Should prob add the clip of semenyo getting his hair pulled and nothing happening. Think I read was even the same ref
 
All we ask for is consistency. If the rules are applied fairly and equally every week things would be a lot better. But they make it up as go along when they're going to stick to the rule book.
 
VAR official being a jobsworth in the sense that if they didn't give anything no one would have batted an eyelid. If no one cares, just let it go.

But Martinez is ultimately at fault for giving them a chance to send him off. It's really not difficult to avoid pulling someone's hair. Every other player managed not to pull his hair, I'm sure Martinez could have managed it too. Just stupidity from our players. We don't do ourselves any favours refusing to hold the players accountable as they'll just keep doing stupid stuff if it's always the refs fault when they do something dumb.
 
Martinez toes the line and has got lucky often for us. He was idiotic to give them a decision to make. You're out injured for ages, first game back, and you do something that dumb? Not really what the team needs this point of the season.
 
Just a bit of common sense needed to see her let's go instantly. Shit call
 
Correct decision. The rules are clear: If you pull an opponent's hair, expect to get sent off.

It is vital that United's manager and players understand the rules of the game. On this issue, it would appear that they don't.
 
kundalini said:
Correct decision. The rules are clear: If you pull an opponent's hair, expect to get sent off.

It is vital that United's manager and players understand the rules of the game. On this issue, it would appear that they don't.
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Except for when semenyo got his hair pulled and nothing came of it
 
To not fvck up the game, with a tad of "common sense" it should have been as much a yellow for both and move one. Or just play blind and move on.

Yet there are none written rules since ever that tend to happen most of times, for instance in ocassions you can hack a fella a tad harsh in a tactical foul and might avoid a yellow, yet a player grabs the shirt of a rival with same intention of a tactical foul and at times not hurt the rival (and himself), and is more probably you'll get a yellow. It's non written rule of what looks more annoying :p .

Licha knows that he should have try to grab his shirt, thougth I get it that a hand in the neck also can fire a more annoying reaction. In any case this kind of rapid, not harsh, fast interactions of players struggling for the ball should be things that VAR should not even bother, specially when both cut the crap pretty fast. But like I said before, in current VAR days and the annoying factor mentioned before, any player knows that you are playing with fire.
 
People calling Martinez an Idiot for what happens are taking the piss. On the replay you can clearly see that he is always looking at the ball and try to make a play for it without even looking where DCL pony tail is or probably even thinking about grabbing his hair. He was extending his hands to balance himself out as everybody does when making a jump like that and his hand barely goes trough his pony tail with no sign of force pulling at all.

There is no way that any human being with out having sight of where the pony tail is in a jump that requires a lot of coordination will be thinking about, "yeah let me grab his pony tail to get an advantage"

As sing of lack of any intend and force from Martinez, it should have never been a red card
 
ElectroManiac said:
People calling Martinez an Idiot for what happens are taking the piss. On the replay you can clearly see that he is always looking at the ball and try to make a play for it without even looking where DCL pony tail is or probably even thinking about grabbing his hair. He was extending his hands to balance himself out as everybody does when making a jump like that and his hand barely goes trough his pony tail with no sign of force pulling at all.
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Worst part of getting fecked by the ref is dealing with this "unbiased fan" gimmick justifying refs's incompetence and slamming our own players. Seems like we're the only fanbase doing this.
 
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Judas said:
Martinez can be dumb and the decision can be idiotic at the same time actually.
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I get the feeling towards Martinez cause he escaped in the past a few bookings for his stupid behavior. But what happens tonight isn't part of it. He did what every player does for aerial balls : 50-50 struggle with their hands wandering anywhere on the opposition body. Plus we can see that he was off balance.

Btw DCL played dirty all along the game, he could have received 2 (harsh) yellows and got their goal disallowed but at the end of the day, it paid off. Not a single Leeds fans would call him dumb, he was probably their MOTM for vicious reasons.
 
kundalini said:
Correct decision. The rules are clear: If you pull an opponent's hair, expect to get sent off.

It is vital that United's manager and players understand the rules of the game. On this issue, it would appear that they don't.
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I would love to see that rule that you think is clear.

There is a little bit of precedent for it in instances where either hair is pulled off the ball when there's no need for it i.e. you're not challenging each other and you're just being a little cnut, or when it's very violent and you tug someone's head back (could obviously be dangerous to yank someone's neck), but there's never been someone sent off for it when they're challenging for the ball, have just been fouled, and have done more damage to their opponents hair bobble than their person. I suppose it fell foul of the unwritten rule 32a, you may send off the player for violent conduct if they play for Manchester United and their opponent told you to.
 
kundalini said:
Correct decision. The rules are clear: If you pull an opponent's hair, expect to get sent off.

It is vital that United's manager and players understand the rules of the game. On this issue, it would appear that they don't.
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If we're following the rules to the Nth degree then DCL should also have been sent off as he grabs the back of Martinez head (and no points for guessing what's on the back of Licha's head...)

 
The game's gone quote was made for this joke of a decision.

The rule is absolute garbage. An actual hair pull is basically the same as a tactical foul. Should be a yellow at most.
 
kundalini said:
Correct decision. The rules are clear: If you pull an opponent's hair, expect to get sent off.

It is vital that United's manager and players understand the rules of the game. On this issue, it would appear that they don't.
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Hilariously that isn’t actually the rule, as they highlighted on MNF, and your comment is missing a key part of the rule:

“A player not challenging for the ball will be sent off if pulling an opponent’s hair with force“.

Do you think he pulled his hair ‘with force’? I don’t think he did.
 
JB08 said:
Hilariously that isn’t actually the rule, as they highlighted on MNF, and your comment is missing a key part of the rule:

“A player not challenging for the ball will be sent off if pulling an opponent’s hair with force“.

Do you think he pulled his hair ‘with force’? I don’t think he did.
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You can also add that he was challenging for the ball. It's a farce of a decision.
 
kundalini said:
Correct decision. The rules are clear: If you pull an opponent's hair, expect to get sent off.

It is vital that United's manager and players understand the rules of the game. On this issue, it would appear that they don't.
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One thing is to pull, another thing is to touch, is this game becoming a woman's game now? You are not allowed to touch your opponents particular body parts?
 
It's a crazy decision. I can promise you that no sane person involved in football thinks it's a red card. One of my biggest issues in with VAR is how someone sitting in a room with screens with no actual feel for the game is making decisions like this one. The rules are written in a way with the idea that the people applying them aren't complete idiots but unfortunately in this case they are.
 
Do people really believe this shouldn't be a red card, or just complain about this vs other offences not called out?

For me this is a definitive red card for violent behaviour, because the ball was nowhere close and he went for the head.
Calvin Lewis elbowing Yoro is at least a foul and possibly a yellow (it's just bad decision by the ref), it's a risk he took (while attemptiong to get the ball though) and should be punished for that BUT I want my Sesko to be doing the same. Martinez was just stupid to do that and gave the referee too easy choice to make really.

The key difference is where the ball was, and that's not even close when he deliberately reached for DCL hair. It's just stupid and was right to be punished. I don't believe there should be a differentiation for that vs hands or neck or pulling the ear, the game doesn't allow that behaviour and I'm surprised so many people would be ok with that.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
If we're following the rules to the Nth degree then DCL should also have been sent off as he grabs the back of Martinez head (and no points for guessing what's on the back of Licha's head...)

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The fact that this is considered “violent conduct” is so absurd. He will get the same ban as you would get from a punch or a headbutt, right? Ridiculous.

Terrible, terrible decision.
 
Borys said:
Do people really believe this shouldn't be a red card, or just complain about this vs other offences not called out?

For me this is a definitive red card for violent behaviour, because the ball was nowhere close and he went for the head.
Calvin Lewis elbowing Yoro is at least a foul and possibly a yellow (it's just bad decision by the ref), it's a risk he took (while attemptiong to get the ball though) and should be punished for that BUT I want my Sesko to be doing the same. Martinez was just stupid to do that and gave the referee too easy choice to make really.

The key difference is where the ball was, and that's not even close when he deliberately reached for DCL hair. It's just stupid and was right to be punished. I don't believe there should be a differentiation for that vs hands or neck or pulling the ear, the game doesn't allow that behaviour and I'm surprised so many people would be ok with that.
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My main issue is that it is in the context of DCL grabbing Martinez's head. It just seems a tit for tat exchange which is at worst a yellow for both.
 
All players should grow their hair out long because they are bound to get others sent off. It’s us bald lads that are disadvantaged here.
 
Borys said:
Do people really believe this shouldn't be a red card, or just complain about this vs other offences not called out?

For me this is a definitive red card for violent behaviour, because the ball was nowhere close and he went for the head.
Calvin Lewis elbowing Yoro is at least a foul and possibly a yellow (it's just bad decision by the ref), it's a risk he took (while attemptiong to get the ball though) and should be punished for that BUT I want my Sesko to be doing the same. Martinez was just stupid to do that and gave the referee too easy choice to make really.

The key difference is where the ball was, and that's not even close when he deliberately reached for DCL hair. It's just stupid and was right to be punished. I don't believe there should be a differentiation for that vs hands or neck or pulling the ear, the game doesn't allow that behaviour and I'm surprised so many people would be ok with that.
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I can't understand how smashing someone in the face is maybe a yellow and touching a ponytail is a clear red.

Did you watch the game or just see stills of his hand on his ponytail and come up with your own conclusion?
 
The easy way to avoid these situations is to simply not pull anyone’s hair. That’ll do it, and save us all the nitpicking.

Idiotic behaviour by Martinez, and deserved the red for the stupidity of putting himself in that position alone.
 
ElectroManiac said:
When someone does something accidentally doesn't make them an idiot. Be more respectful
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Don’t tell someone to be more respectful when he wasn’t being abusive

By the letter of the law he had to go. I find the word “accidental” laughable as an excuse.

On the other side DCL should have been carded at least once

And yes, like any other ref decision there needs to be consistency with other games
 
Howard Webb said after the Michael Keane incident that negligible touches of the hair wouldn't be given as a red and it needed to be a pull..

I bet he backtracks now to defend his boys
 
Jed I. Knight said:
The easy way to avoid these situations is to simply not pull anyone’s hair. That’ll do it, and save us all the nitpicking.

Idiotic behaviour by Martinez, and deserved the red for the stupidity of putting himself in that position alone.
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He's grabbing for his shirt. Its a competitive sport, there is jostling and movement involved.

As soon as he realises he has hair in his hand and not a shirt he lets go.
 
I can't stand modern football and it's daft rules.

I used to watch loads of EPL games before but now I can only bear to watch our games and even then it's a struggle.

The football is pretty sterile most of the time and VAR is the ultimate joy killer. Seems to me that games are actually easier to manipulate with VAR than they were before it's introduction.
 
From Sky

What does the law say?​

While hair pulling is not specifically mentioned in the Laws of the Game, it is categorised as 'violent conduct' as it cannot be considered as something you would legitimately do when challenging for the ball.
Everton's Michael Keane received a three-match suspension for pulling the hair of Wolves' Tolu Arokodare in a 1-1 draw in January.
"If you have longer hair, then there's a fair chance you'll get it pulled," Everton manager David Moyes said at the time.
At the start of 2023-24, Tottenham's Cristian Romero wrongly escaped a VAR red card after pulling the hair of Chelsea's Marc Cucurella - that proved to be a reference point for the future.
Southampton's Jack Stephens was dismissed for doing it to Cucurella, as was Paris St-Germain's Joao Neves at last summer's Club World Cup.
Then at the Women's Euros, Germany's Kathrin Hendrich looked shocked after she was sent off for pulling the hair of France's Griedge Mbock.
And earlier this month, Arsenal's Katie McCabe avoided a red card for pulling Chelsea's Alyssa Thompson's hair during their Women's Champions League quarter-finalexit.
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He pulled his hair, it's a red card. The thing is, in the same incident DCL elbows Martinez and previously does the same for the first goal. Nothing given nothing signaled by VAR, that's the baffling part.
 
Don't grab someone's hair and the ref doesn't have a decision to make. He's an idiot
 
Drainy said:
Martinez is playing football and not intendingto pull the hair. Believe it or not you cannot expect every judgement to play out as anticipated.

He has a hand in the fecking face and neck and makes a grab for the opponents shirt. He mistimes it because he's being impeded.

Playing football seems so easy while in your mother's basement with your crusty wank rag next to you criticising ffs.. there are going to be mistimed tackles, shots that go off target because human beings don't make perfect performances every time. There was no intention behind touching the hair, as you can tell by as soon as Martinez sees he has hair instead of shirt he lets go.
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You don’t know that for sure. Equally I don’t know for sure that it was a sneaky pull and he dropped it as soon as he knew a second or so would be enough to distract DCL. He’s an Argentinian defender, they’re well known for the dark arts

My argument in his favour is refs applying consistency but it is an offence and he’s given the ref a decision to make
 
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