Drag them down the tunnel with you, as you march off before you get the inevitable red.
The Martinez red card
- Thread starter FriedClams
- Start date
Drag them down the tunnel with you, as you march off before you get the inevitable red.
except there seems to be some wording confusion. Ive seen things like "deliberate pull" or pulling with "force". Neither of which martinez did. Definitely wasnt violent conduct and if you want to play by the rules you can find a still image of DCL with his hands around martinez throat during that tussle as well. Watching the play i still dont even think there was a pulling motion by martinez at all.
It’s just a consistency thing again for me. Apparently you can’t argue against this because he ‘pulled his hair’ and there’s no grey area, but forearm smashing someone, grabbing the back of their neck or running backwards elbowing someone with no intent to play the ball is all ‘grey area’ and ‘up for interpretation’.
Refereeing decision consistency is just shocking all round in this league. Common sense has gone out the window. It’s just going to get worse too.
Refereeing decision consistency is just shocking all round in this league. Common sense has gone out the window. It’s just going to get worse too.
Glad you got that off your chest but what does any of it have to do with the subject of this thread?
I'm thinking like professional wrestling, two hand grab and drag to the ground by the hair
[url=https://postimages.org/]
[/URL]Reminder of the rules.
Also a reminder that Martinez does actually make an attempt to head the ball. JCL never even gives a hint of trying to play it. His one and only intent is to wrestle with Martinez.
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There was a pull, I have a feeling he was trying to grab the shirt of DCL but ended up with the protruding mane instead.
Yes there was minimal force but still enough for DCL to feel it and to be seen, it clearly forces DCLs head back a little as well.
It's a stonewall red, however I am impressed at how much Carrick has complained about this, feels like it's been a while since we've had a manager willing to speak up about these incidents.
Also, just like to point out DCL made 5 fouls last night, on top of all the fouls missed by the officials and wasn't booked. So forgive me for not buying the rules stated they had to send off Martinez.
The one time I've ever looked up the rules was after the Casemiro incident against Palace so was incensed last night at the call. Not only that it was given, but that VAR decided it was "clear and obvious" that what Martinez did meets the standard of violent conduct.
So according to the rules it was clear and obvious to them that:
- It was off the ball. Is competing for a header considered off the ball? If it is then any contact around the face in this situation would be considered violent conduct? Can't see from the angle, but did the pull occur before the ball was played?
- It was a clear action. Yeah probably fair, if it said deliberate action I would question it, but it was a clear action.
- It was pulled with force. If that was with force... what would a "non-forceful" hair pull look like?
I do have sympathy for refs and VAR. It's an impossible task. I felt like VAR was in a position where it was just correcting poor decisions, which is why I was disappointed with the ref, but not VAR after the Amad/Maguire penalty decisions. This smacks of them trying to get involved when there was absolutely no need for it. If they had played on, I don't even think you see a replay of that decision afterwards
So according to the rules it was clear and obvious to them that:
- It was off the ball. Is competing for a header considered off the ball? If it is then any contact around the face in this situation would be considered violent conduct? Can't see from the angle, but did the pull occur before the ball was played?
- It was a clear action. Yeah probably fair, if it said deliberate action I would question it, but it was a clear action.
- It was pulled with force. If that was with force... what would a "non-forceful" hair pull look like?
I do have sympathy for refs and VAR. It's an impossible task. I felt like VAR was in a position where it was just correcting poor decisions, which is why I was disappointed with the ref, but not VAR after the Amad/Maguire penalty decisions. This smacks of them trying to get involved when there was absolutely no need for it. If they had played on, I don't even think you see a replay of that decision afterwards
Is anyone else still traumatised from the VIOLENCE on show last night?
I'll be having nightmares for weeks.
I'll be having nightmares for weeks.
I’ll be honest United were that bad last night I just accepted the red in real time. Even based on what sky said the wording is I accepted Martinez messed up and was justly punished.
But looking at the wording of the rule (especially about force and being off the ball), as well as VAR only having to intervene when a clear and obvious error has been made, then I really don’t see why they picked that incident to call back. It’s not even a case of ‘the games gone’ the rules don’t seem to outright prescribe a red card for exactly how that unfolded last night.
I’m fine with them letting DCL’s punches, elbows and grabs go as ‘tussling for the ball’ but you have to apply that approach fairly. It’s the second game in a row where match officials have taken differing views on similar situations within the same game, both to our detriment. I’m not saying there’s a vendetta against United per se, but I do wonder whether they subconsciously let the under dogs away with more.
But looking at the wording of the rule (especially about force and being off the ball), as well as VAR only having to intervene when a clear and obvious error has been made, then I really don’t see why they picked that incident to call back. It’s not even a case of ‘the games gone’ the rules don’t seem to outright prescribe a red card for exactly how that unfolded last night.
I’m fine with them letting DCL’s punches, elbows and grabs go as ‘tussling for the ball’ but you have to apply that approach fairly. It’s the second game in a row where match officials have taken differing views on similar situations within the same game, both to our detriment. I’m not saying there’s a vendetta against United per se, but I do wonder whether they subconsciously let the under dogs away with more.
It's impossible being from a country where football is the ultimate sport, and considering this a red card.
That's my conclusion. Most of the comment's I've seen are from countries that are not world champions or their leagues are poor.
This can never be a red card, it's totally exaggerated.
That's my conclusion. Most of the comment's I've seen are from countries that are not world champions or their leagues are poor.
This can never be a red card, it's totally exaggerated.
Was that this season? I saw a bit of the Sky coverage earlier and I thought they were saying the rule has been added since then?
It was harsh, and absolutely not a red if committed by an Arsenal player or others.
As for the first goal, Yoro was hit, again it gets blown up against Arsenal or others.
Still, we were as weak as hell and should be beating these chumps.
As for the first goal, Yoro was hit, again it gets blown up against Arsenal or others.
Still, we were as weak as hell and should be beating these chumps.
Sorry yes it was last season
Agree with this.
Laughable decision that we should appeal. After that Bournemouth debacle I'm just numb to it though.
DCL should be given a yellow in the tunnel for havin a fugin “Bun” anyway !!!!
If he “doesn’t really” grab his neck, why can’t we say Martinez “doesn’t really” grab DCLs hair?
Are you the poster who said yesterday it was just below Suarez’s offenses?
Forget the hair pulling issue, that was VAR and modern day refereeing, at it's worst.
The question surely is what was Carrick thinking in even expecting Martinez to match up against someone the size of DCL; especially on his first game back after months?
It was a constant 'big v little' tussle that Martinez was nearly always going to come off worst.... unless he played 'on the edge' with the rules. Which he did, leaning into his opponent just before the ball arrived, the little push sidewards occasionally, and he stood on DCL's foot at least once or twice to prevent him jumping. Whether the ref had seen this and was giving him some leeway, or whether DCL lost his rag and squealed when his hair got pulled, who knows.... VAR intervened and that was that.
Surely Heaven should have been alongside Yoro with Martinez taking Ugarte's role?
The question surely is what was Carrick thinking in even expecting Martinez to match up against someone the size of DCL; especially on his first game back after months?
It was a constant 'big v little' tussle that Martinez was nearly always going to come off worst.... unless he played 'on the edge' with the rules. Which he did, leaning into his opponent just before the ball arrived, the little push sidewards occasionally, and he stood on DCL's foot at least once or twice to prevent him jumping. Whether the ref had seen this and was giving him some leeway, or whether DCL lost his rag and squealed when his hair got pulled, who knows.... VAR intervened and that was that.
Surely Heaven should have been alongside Yoro with Martinez taking Ugarte's role?
It’s laughable because most players would have thrown themselves to the ground with that hand to the face. Martinez actually wanted to compete and caused his own downfall.
You say that when Martinez kept Haaland quiet not that long ago
Matching Martinez up against pretty much any striker in the league is the same question though at his height?
It's one of a few reasons why it simply doesn't work and you need a brute strength and height Maguire / De Ligt figure back there.
Even Yoro at his height has it all to learn physically.
During the match, we saw DCL smack Martinez in the face with a flailing arm when they went up for the header. That part is conveniently missing from all the clips and stills.
Yeah, I was trying (and failing) to be funny. I agree with you.
After smacking Yoro in the face for their goal. Easy two yellows
Martinez was getting bullied and knew what he was doing. It was idiotic.
Is he banned for 3 games with it being ‘violent’ conduct?
Violent conduct!!?
'' Mummy he pulled my hair - punish him please or i'll scream and scream!! ''
'' Mummy he pulled my hair - punish him please or i'll scream and scream!! ''
Shoite decision
“I don’t know, I don’t make the rules,” Calvert-Lewin, the England striker, said. “I felt my hair get pulled, told the ref, he makes the decisions. It’s unfortunate for [Martínez], whether he’s meant it or not. I hold no grudges.”
Interesting. So perhaps the VAR didn’t even see it, but DCL grassed him up and the ref then asked the VAR to look at it?
Interesting. So perhaps the VAR didn’t even see it, but DCL grassed him up and the ref then asked the VAR to look at it?
Refereeing is the worst it’s ever been. The PL should be looking to get the best referees in Europe in, seeing as it’s the biggest league. There’s a reason none of our bottleless feckwit lot go to major comps anymore
“He pulled my hair” used to be little girls to the school teacher… 2026 and it’s PL footballers.
One of the worst decisions I've seen. Proper wtf moment
What's done is done, but based on what I've read in the Laws and having reviewed the video numerous times I actually believe that the appeal will be successful in getting the match ban down from 3 games to 1 game.
Martinez grabbed DCL's manbun but he let go of it before any yanking occurred.
Martinez grabbed DCL's manbun but he let go of it before any yanking occurred.
Carrick should quickly arrange a quick interview with a friendly journalist and get “no extreme force, was trying to challenge .. until DCL swung his arm into his head and lost his bearings for a split second” out there.
You’re being silly. One is forcefully grabbing a throat, after he forcefully smacked Casemiro in the face with his elbow earlier in the match, whilst also smacking and elbowing Yoro prior to the first goal. The other holds onto his hairbun. Just look at the ref - he’s clearly favouring the hair.[url=https://postimages.org/]
Reminder of the rules.
Also a reminder that Martinez does actually make an attempt to head the ball. JCL never even gives a hint of trying to play it. His one and only intent is to wrestle with Martinez.
Yeah, DCL grabbing Martinez’ throat is being a bully. Right you are.