The mask debate

[Tibs]

On the train home earlier...a guy comes on with no mask.

Half way into the journey, he starts clearing his throat loudly, then a couple of coughing fits. Thankfully he was away from everyone...but once Uni's re-open, the Greater Manchester trains will be rammed again and this is how it will spread.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

FFS

 

[One Night Only]

One can wonder how much protection a surgical mask offers when trapped for hours in a metal tube with 300 passengers, packed like sardines, breathing each other's recycled air. Everybody is taking their masks off for food and drinks anyway. The mask simply gives an illusion of safety in this situation, the only thing truly protecting people from each other is their immune system. When you smell each other's farts, you are also breathing in each other's germs. If you are worried about your health on planes, I would advise to not travel at all.

To illustrate my point:

With regards to N95. I have tried. These might be ok on short flights, but long distance they become unbearable, the drop in air quality behind the mask is astronomical, causing feelings of claustrophobia and making people lift off their masks occasionally to get a bit of extra oxygen in. They do more harm than good. Sending your kid to school with an N95 mask is downright irresponsible parenting.

Ah yes, because I always breathe out with enough force to blow each little piggies house down.

 

[One Night Only]

FFS

And her name? Karen.

Even the doctor knows this is a joke, just a ballache to go through and document.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

And her name? Karen.

Even the doctor knows this is a joke, just a ballache to go through and document.

It really is a ball ache. Been there, done that. Plus the Medical Council can be assholes sometimes. So he’ll be anxious about the outcome regardless.

 

[One Night Only]

It really is a ball ache. Been there, done that. Plus the Medical Council can be assholes sometimes. So he’ll be anxious about the outcome regardless.

Surely they can't back her in any way? She's basically walked in and asked the doctor to forge a sick note for her. Then kicked off because he wouldn't make stuff up for her so she didn't have to wear a mask.

To be honest, most doctors just give out sick notes for nothing anyway, lads at work constantly "I'll get a sick note" and suddenly a sicknote appears. I'm glad he stuck to his guns.

 

[Lj82]

Yes you're right, just wished there was more understanding amongst us all. My hospital trust is down in the South East and cases have been very low for the last 3-4 weeks. I've been working on a covid respiratory ward for the last 6 months but the ward has gone back to being a green 'clean' ward now. Our whole hospital only has two wards which are red 'covid' wards. At it's peak we had 8 red wards so things have improved vastly. The majority of covid cases belonged to care/residential and nursing homes. The community doctors did everything they could to keep the elderly patients away from the hospital as there would not have been enough beds and ventilators to go around. Not sure what the ethical implications are for this practice but thats another debate for another day - certainly for when a public enquiry is opened regarding how the government has handled the pandemic.

As @Wibble has pointed out, @Lj82 You won't build up and retain CO2 by wearing a surgical mask. However, wearing a mask on a plane is also very different as the oxygen levels are reduced in the air you breathe in. It can make you feel dizzy or lightheaded on a plane whilst wearing a mask becuase of this. You would only build up CO2 if you have abnormal breathing or hyperventilate really. If you persist with feeling dizzy or unwell whilst wearing a surgical mask at any other time then I would recommend you being assessed by your Doctor/GP just in-case you have an underlying respiratory or neurological condition as a precaution.

I feel fine normally when wearing a mask. It's mandatory to wear them here when we leave the house so i wear them everyday. should have clarify that i fell asleep and felt dizzy when i woke up. I'm pretty sure it's carbon dioxide build up as my breathing pattern changes when I sleep. So yes I might have hyperventilated. I think the presence of a mask on my face may have subconsciously made me breathe harder than I needed to.

 

[decorativeed]

Just taking my first ride on the metrolink from Ashton through Manchester to Altrincham. There are so many meatheads utterly incapable of putting a mask on and giving a shit about others. Then you have the people who wear it to get on and immediately pull it under their chin and those who wear it below the nose. People actually wearing one correctly are a minority. It's no fecking wonder Manchester is in extra measures.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yes you're right, just wished there was more understanding amongst us all. My hospital trust is down in the South East and cases have been very low for the last 3-4 weeks. I've been working on a covid respiratory ward for the last 6 months but the ward has gone back to being a green 'clean' ward now. Our whole hospital only has two wards which are red 'covid' wards. At it's peak we had 8 red wards so things have improved vastly. The majority of covid cases belonged to care/residential and nursing homes. The community doctors did everything they could to keep the elderly patients away from the hospital as there would not have been enough beds and ventilators to go around. Not sure what the ethical implications are for this practice but thats another debate for another day - certainly for when a public enquiry is opened regarding how the government has handled the pandemic.

As @Wibble has pointed out, @Lj82 You won't build up and retain CO2 by wearing a surgical mask. However, wearing a mask on a plane is also very different as the oxygen levels are reduced in the air you breathe in. It can make you feel dizzy or lightheaded on a plane whilst wearing a mask becuase of this. You would only build up CO2 if you have abnormal breathing or hyperventilate really. If you persist with feeling dizzy or unwell whilst wearing a surgical mask at any other time then I would recommend you being assessed by your Doctor/GP just in-case you have an underlying respiratory or neurological condition as a precaution.

I feel fine normally when wearing a mask. It's mandatory to wear them here when we leave the house so i wear them everyday. should have clarify that i fell asleep and felt dizzy when i woke up. I'm pretty sure it's carbon dioxide build up as my breathing pattern changes when I sleep. So yes I might have hyperventilated. I think the presence of a mask on my face may have subconsciously made me breathe harder than I needed to.

Just to be a bit pedantic. Breathing more rapidly (hyperventilating) will cause you to end up with reduced CO2 levels in your blood. But that can make you feel dizzy. It can also make your fingers tingle, as well as most of the other physical manifestation of anxiety/panic. That’s why a really old fashioned way to deal with panic was to get someone to breath into a paper bag, which can reduce the amount of CO2 they’re venting.

Either way, it’s very unlikely a surgical mask could mess with your blood gases enough to make you dizzy. They have excellent air flow, in and out. There are plenty of other reasons why people might feel a bit weird on a plane, though. Reduced air pressure, dehydration from the air conditioning etc

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Is there any country that has brought in mask use over the past months and is a shining example of it reducing or maintaining the case load?
Appears the likes of France and Spain have had poor results? Maybe Italy? Although cases look like they are on the up there also now?
Ireland? Although it seems they already had a very good grip on maintaining the spread before mask use.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Is there any country that has brought in mask use over the past months and is a shining example of it reducing or maintaining the case load?
Appears the likes of France and Spain have had poor results? Maybe Italy? Although cases look like they are on the up there also now?
Ireland? Although it seems they already had a very good grip on maintaining the spread before mask use.

There is absolutely no way of disentangling mask use from all the other factors, positive and negative, that affect a countries case-load. And there never will be. Masks are always going to be a common sense approach, with not much evidence to demonstrate the upside but worth using all the same because of the trivial downside.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

There is absolutely no way of disentangling mask use from all the other factors, positive and negative, that affect a countries case-load. And there never will be. Masks are always going to be a common sense approach, with not much evidence to demonstrate the upside but worth using all the same because of the trivial downside.

Well unless the downside is people using them completely incorrectly and not social distancing because "mask innit".

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Is there any country that has brought in mask use over the past months and is a shining example of it reducing or maintaining the case load?
Appears the likes of France and Spain have had poor results? Maybe Italy? Although cases look like they are on the up there also now?
Ireland? Although it seems they already had a very good grip on maintaining the spread before mask use.

There are far too many variables to ever get that data. It will never happen.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Well unless the downside is people using them completely incorrectly and not social distancing because "mask innit".

The type of person who uses a mask completely incorrectly and gives up social distancing because they’re wearing one would probably be as much of a problem without a mask as they are with one.

And they’re a minority anyway. All these measures are about trying to cause small improvements - at a population level - based on how they are implemented by the majority of the population.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The type of person who uses a mask completely incorrectly and gives up social distancing because they’re wearing one would probably be as much of a problem without a mask as they are with one.

And they’re a minority anyway. All these measures are about trying to cause small improvements - at a population level - based on how they are implemented by the majority of the population.

The “minority” wear masks completely incorrectly? Try the majority.
Maybe it’s different in Ireland, but in most places the overwhelming majority haven’t the foggiest.

 

[DFreshKing]

How many people are going to carry on wearing masks indefinitely here? It seems people see little to no downside and there are always virus and bugs to avoid so will you go the way of some in Asian countries that wear them regularly?

 

[djembatheking]

I have been in three shops today in North Wales and didn`t see one person wearing a mask . People here stopped wearing them weeks ago.

 

[Jippy]

How many people are going to carry on wearing masks indefinitely here? It seems people see little to no downside and there are always virus and bugs to avoid so will you go the way of some in Asian countries that wear them regularly?

I doubt many would in the UK, given how so many struggle to bother doing it currently on a five minute visit to a shop.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

How many people are going to carry on wearing masks indefinitely here? It seems people see little to no downside and there are always virus and bugs to avoid so will you go the way of some in Asian countries that wear them regularly?

I’d say there’s enough of a downside that people won’t bother wearing them if the only upside is reduced transmission of much more minor illnesses. If nothing else, it’s a hassle to remember to carry one round with you.

 

[Libano]

I see two reasons why people would continue to wear masks: Governmental force and continued fear of the virus. In the absence of these, mask use will plummet and possibly be socially shunned as a symbol of compliance. Europeans are simply missing that sense of responsibility for society found in Japan or China and find personal liberty more important.

Mask use is cratering in my city as national fatality numbers are in their single digits.

 

[F-Red]

I have been in three shops today in North Wales and didn`t see one person wearing a mask . People here stopped wearing them weeks ago.

You keep saying this, but why do you sound surprised? The Welsh government haven't made them mandatory in shops, so what are you expecting?

 

[Sweet Square]

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[djembatheking]

You keep saying this, but why do you sound surprised? The Welsh government haven't made them mandatory in shops, so what are you expecting?

I am not surprised anymore , I don`t bother myself. Haven`t worn one in ages now.

 

[sebsheep]

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Ah ffs

 

[calodo2003]

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[LawCharltonBest]

In my local spar the last two times, I’ve been literally the only one with a mask. 10+ customers and a few staff.

What’s happening? Is this not being enforced any more?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I see two reasons why people would continue to wear masks: Governmental force and continued fear of the virus. In the absence of these, mask use will plummet and possibly be socially shunned as a symbol of compliance. Europeans are simply missing that sense of responsibility for society found in Japan or China and find personal liberty more important.

Mask use is cratering in my city as national fatality numbers are in their single digits.

Only by idiots. So I wouldn’t worry too much about that.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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Oh Ian...

What does “No Tracks” mean anyway?

 

[harms]

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That’s incredible

 

[Sweet Square]

Oh Ian...

What does “No Tracks” mean anyway?

I think it's a reference to the UK track and trace model

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/nhs-test-and-trace-how-it-works

 

[entropy]

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[utdalltheway]

Another Karen. This time on American airlines

this woman has serious issues that should be dealt with by professional counseling or psycho therapy.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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[Munkehboi]

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Depends on context and this persons anatomy. He is wearing a hostpial gown, is he going in for surgery? Regardless, I feel a mask should cover both the mouth/nose. Someone coughing in his face could force any virus through. Most importantly he should be wearing a filter to cover the stoma site though, Lary's are very vulnerable to any respiratory disease without one.

 

[psychdelicblues]

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[Pogue Mahone]

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Or written by Chris Morris.

 

[Sweet Square]

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[Tarrou]

I had a mask debate with an old school friend the other day, when i asked him why he thought masks were ineffective he shared something from the CDC saying not to wear them. When i pointed out that it was fake and the CDC recommend the opposite, and asked him if that has given him any reason to doubt his opinion, he said no. He’s still convinced due to research he’s been doing for months, when asked to share it he said he couldn’t find it anymore so it must have been removed which is suspicious and further supports his viewpoint its correct.

I find all this pretty terrifying to be honest. Where does all this lead if you can convince a certain section of the population of anything if you spend enough money online?

 

[Revan]

I had a mask debate with an old school friend the other day, when i asked him why he thought masks were ineffective he shared something from the CDC saying not to wear them. When i pointed out that it was fake and the CDC recommend the opposite, and asked him if that has given him any reason to doubt his opinion, he said no. He’s still convinced due to research he’s been doing for months, when asked to share it he said he couldn’t find it anymore so it must have been removed which is suspicious and further supports his viewpoint its correct.

I find all this pretty terrifying to be honest. Where does all this lead if you can convince a certain section of the population of anything if you spend enough money online?

I hate the word research nowadays. For whatever reasons, some losers seem to think that doing research means checking stuff in Facebook.

 

[SirAF]

Used a mask the other day for the first time, with the reason being I had to catch a bus coming from a city with a high number of cases. I don’t see the fuss, it wasn’t particularly uncomfortable to wear and although it made me feel safer I definitely did not drop my guard either.