I'm divided on that. Outdoor events have been banned too. And in places like Spain even walking has been under restrictions. So it's just be a precautionary measure.
The mask debate
- Thread starter golden_blunder
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
When I say outdoor transmission is virtually nil I mean the activities one currently does outdoors have been found to lead to very little transmission (i.e. with social distancing and no large gatherings etc.). The restrictions on walking in Spain were in the early days of the virus if I'm not wrong where not much was known about it. Having said that, I think it's perfectly find to wear a mask outdoors (each to their own), but I also think it's perfectly fine to not wear a mask outdoors.
This. Very disappointing
I am fully for masks in public spaces. But what I don't get is the mandatory policy in Dine-in restaurants and Bars. I mean aren't people going to be taking it off for their duration of the meal, which is the purpose of their visit. Am I missing something? . I dont see the point.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...en-residents-without-masks-pack-room-n1234017
Utah meeting on masks is canceled when residents without masks pack room
Utah meeting on masks is canceled when residents without masks pack room
Some of those quotes..
May be offensive
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Meh, people who wear their masks like that don't use their nose for breathing anyway.
What I'm struggling to understand at the moment is that a lot of the politicians coming out against making masks compulsory (Gove, Kemp etc) don't seem to even be saying that masks don't work. Even Trump seems to have shifted his messaging on this.
Yet they don't want to make it compulsory, only 'strongly suggest' people wear them. Why, what's the problem with making them compulsory? I think most people know in reality the police aren't going to go around actually giving out fines, in the UK at least. But making something a law, giving a unified message and leading by example will increase mask usage a lot imo.
After a couple of days ago initially saying a poster was perhaps being unfair on masks in the UK as I saw people in London at least mostly wearing them, I went out to get shopping yesterday to find very few people wearing them. Even the security guard at the supermarket wasn't bothering. Genuinely just very disappointing.
Yet they don't want to make it compulsory, only 'strongly suggest' people wear them. Why, what's the problem with making them compulsory? I think most people know in reality the police aren't going to go around actually giving out fines, in the UK at least. But making something a law, giving a unified message and leading by example will increase mask usage a lot imo.
After a couple of days ago initially saying a poster was perhaps being unfair on masks in the UK as I saw people in London at least mostly wearing them, I went out to get shopping yesterday to find very few people wearing them. Even the security guard at the supermarket wasn't bothering. Genuinely just very disappointing.
In ireland it’s supposed to be mandatory to wear them on public transport. I’ve seen a few busses in my area with loads of passengers not wearing them.
Serious question, latest studies indicate sterilising immunity only lasts 3 months in 80%+ of the population. Which makes vaccination near impossible.
What do we then imagine the solution to this crisis is ? We expect it now to somehow be totally erdadicated globally ?
What then does wearing a face mask achieve ?
What do we then imagine the solution to this crisis is ? We expect it now to somehow be totally erdadicated globally ?
What then does wearing a face mask achieve ?
Seriously?
Not sure I get your point here.
I think everyone needs to relax a little on the reports and studies at the moment, for both good and bad news. They're often preliminary studies, in early stages. Its easy to find yourself getting worked up into a frenzy either way with all these reports.
But, even assuming absolute worst case scenario. If Infection does not provide lasting immunity. If we cannot make a vaccine of any kind. If we cannot make a treatment which helps in any real way. If the virus does not change in any way and continues to infect and kill at the same rate.
Then we need to come up with non-medical ways to control the spread of the virus, to ensure the virus remains at least at controllable levels. Of which masks, alongside social distancing, localised lockdowns etc will have to make up a bulk of those measures. And we will probably have to adjust to a totally new normal in our lives and societies.
The point of masks is not and has never been to eradicate the virus completely. If used improperly, they may not do much (or even at times cause harm) but as a population wide measure, it can (probably) slow down spread, especially from asymptomatic carriers walking around breathing into the air and unaware they're even spreading it.
Well wearing masks helps slow down infection rates. Its not the big answer but its one of a number of things we can do which combined help slow down infection rates. So if infection rates are slowed then hospitals dont get overwhelmed. Also if infection rates are slowed it makes it possible to contact trace more effectively because the numbers of infected are lower. On another tangent some people in society are more susceptible to anxiety than others and wearing masks can help improve their confidence levels and reduce their anxiety. Mostly wearing masks is all about thinking about other peoples welfare so from that point its a complete no brainer for me. What can I do that helps others, be it something that has a real impact or something that helps alleviate a perceived impact.
It avoids exponential growth that would otherwise occur in a full reopening of the country.
At an even more basic level though it lessens the chance of you passing it on to someone who may have vulnerable contacts which seems a very basic courtesy. Adjusting our behaviours to not spread germs and disease is hardly something new.
Seems like certain kinds of T-cells are the big deal regarding whether or not this particular virus takes hold. As far as I know the Oxford vaccine (at least) doesn't just stimulate the production of antibodies, but also of these T-cells. T-cells act as guides for immuno-response, managing inflammation and directing the production of requisite antibodies. If these cells persist after antibodies decline then I guess this improves the vaccine's chances of greater longevity.
I don’t think there is any study that shows that. There is some anecdotal evidence (for example in the US a person got reinfected 3 months after having been cleared out of the virus aka having 2 negative tests), but it is not clear if this is an exception or the norm. The vast majority of people who beat it have not been reinfected.
In the end it is likely that there might be some immunity that depending on the person can be from a few months to maybe a couple of years or longer. It also is not clear if they key to immunity are antibodies or T-cells, in fact T-cells seem to be more important than usual, and the good vaccines seem to simulate T-cells in addition to antibodies. Finally, a good vaccine might actually provide more immunity than the disease itself (with emphasis on might).
So hard to know. My best bet is that we would need to get periodically get vaccinated, every 6 months or every year. To be fair, if they can scale up the vaccine production, it is hardly the end of the world if we get vaccinated every 3 months, as long as the vaccine is cheap.
So, while I think that eradicating it is out of the question (and has been so since the beginning), managing the situation should be possible. Just that we would probably need another 18 months to reach that stage, and these 18 months are gonna be very boring for those who are lucky, and very painful for those who get seriously sick or lose loved ones.
You would have thought that adjusting our behaviour to avoid a killer virus would have been relatively agreeable.
But I hear every argument under the sun from individuals who ought to know better.
One yesterday. A person in a shop telling anyone who was stupid enough to listen that he/she (difficult to tell) was NOT going to wear a face mask because the shopkeepers don't have to. They went on to say...why the f--- should I have to wear one. They should keep the shop cleaner...
Takes all kinds.
Is this at all proven?
I still have my doubts, it has no effect on stopping the spread of the regular flu in the Asian countries that have a mask wearing culture yet somehow it will have a huge effect here?
I think they are incredibly useful (but far from perfect) in the situations where distance simply can’t be avoided, but they aren’t a magic bullet. Social distancing is still the most important thing by far to stop exponential growth, not masks.
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I think in this case common sense should prevail with all the data on offer. If everyone was obligated to wear masks and it reduces the risk of catching Covid by 10% (for sure it would be reduced by a lot more) then right now 60,000 more people would be alive today.
It's not complicated. The more we do to combat Covid then the less risk for everybody and the quicker we get back to normal life. It's not good enough saying I'm social distancing so I don't need to wear a mask when in places like supermarkets where it's next to impossible to implement it. Take All precautions necessary and not just the comfortable ones and the people who refuse to wear masks for whatever reason should ask themselves is it worth the risk for themselves or for the people around them? People who think they're bullet proof are the ones that will be keeping this pandemic alive and basically are selfish fecks.
It's not complicated. The more we do to combat Covid then the less risk for everybody and the quicker we get back to normal life. It's not good enough saying I'm social distancing so I don't need to wear a mask when in places like supermarkets where it's next to impossible to implement it. Take All precautions necessary and not just the comfortable ones and the people who refuse to wear masks for whatever reason should ask themselves is it worth the risk for themselves or for the people around them? People who think they're bullet proof are the ones that will be keeping this pandemic alive and basically are selfish fecks.
So few people wearing masks today...
Can't see that changing in a week
Can't see shops turning away most customers
Cant see the police having the resources
Basically I cant see masks working in the uk
Can't see that changing in a week
Can't see shops turning away most customers
Cant see the police having the resources
Basically I cant see masks working in the uk
All it takes is for a couple of stores to have a mask policy and more will follow
You see, I have no problem wearing one, it's the right thing to do and doesn't do any harm, but I'm not so convinced it helps so much.
Now, I only recently understood properly why wearing a mask if you are not infected does not help you, only if you are infected does it help you stop passing it on.
If you are wearing a mask and an infected person sneezes/coughs close to you, even though you are wearing a mask, the virus can enter your body through your eyes. If the infected person is wearing a mask and coughs/sneezes near you, then this should prevent, or greatly lessen, the opportunity of you getting infected. Since nobody really knows if they are infected or not, unless they have recently tested positive, then everyone should wear a mask. You should also wear goggles to be on the safe side though.
Now, I only recently understood properly why wearing a mask if you are not infected does not help you, only if you are infected does it help you stop passing it on.
If you are wearing a mask and an infected person sneezes/coughs close to you, even though you are wearing a mask, the virus can enter your body through your eyes. If the infected person is wearing a mask and coughs/sneezes near you, then this should prevent, or greatly lessen, the opportunity of you getting infected. Since nobody really knows if they are infected or not, unless they have recently tested positive, then everyone should wear a mask. You should also wear goggles to be on the safe side though.
Well that’s the whole point because you may not have symptoms- everyone needs to wear one or we go around in circles for longer
Not disagreeing with you.
It's such a small concession to make. I can't understand people who say they don't like being told what to do, because we're all told what to do in so many ways - don't steal, don't drive when you're drunk, don't cheat in exams and so on and so forth.
I think the Co Op have made them optional. Others have made them mandatory.
I guess the buck has been passed from the government to each individual business to make the decision on whether they are mandatory.
Tomorrow is when it supposedly becomes mandatory in England, I'm not sure it will be a success. The buses around here have notices up on them saying drivers aren't going to enforce it and to not report other passengers for not complying. I predict shops will act similarly. I doubt any business is in a position to turn custom away.
Every shop I was in this week, I was one of very few wearing one, I predict those who will be wearing them beyond the 24th will be mostly those who were already wearing one anyway. One other lad I saw wearing one in Lidl yesterday, as soon as he got out the door, he ripped it off and started huffing like he'd just done a 100m sprint. I've got a few different masks, none of them restrict breathing in any way. The only real nuisance is that they steam up my sunglasses, so they must be a bit annoying to wear for those who wear glasses, but I feel there is a major overreaction to masks overall.
Every shop I was in this week, I was one of very few wearing one, I predict those who will be wearing them beyond the 24th will be mostly those who were already wearing one anyway. One other lad I saw wearing one in Lidl yesterday, as soon as he got out the door, he ripped it off and started huffing like he'd just done a 100m sprint. I've got a few different masks, none of them restrict breathing in any way. The only real nuisance is that they steam up my sunglasses, so they must be a bit annoying to wear for those who wear glasses, but I feel there is a major overreaction to masks overall.
I think people will come round by winter, the numbers will go back up and people might actually consider wearing one to at least keep their face warm.
My gf manages a store so I'm a bit worried she's going to have stupid people shouting at her but hopefully everyone is sensible. She's going to get the store to offer disposable masks at the door for people and tell them they can buy reusable ones inside.
agree with this
I just dont think that the vast majority of the population are just waiting till the 24th to get their masks out
for sure I think most business would not want to turn away people at the moment
how much is that per mask (50p?)... could image that being a huge cost with large footfall especially if most browse but dont buy or buy low profit items
Free from the people who run the shopping area.
I’m in Melbourne, masks became mandatory in public today. Was good to see that everyone (that I saw) was doing it.
It’s a little weird and definitely reminds you that things are far from normal. But that’s a good thing, stops the complacency that will cause cases to spiral out of control.
It’s a little weird and definitely reminds you that things are far from normal. But that’s a good thing, stops the complacency that will cause cases to spiral out of control.
So from today we're no doubt going to see bellends causing a scene because they don't want to wear a mask in a shop.
I went to the supermarket today and I'd guess around only 10% of people had masks on, so it seems farfetched to expect everyone to start complying without any drama.
I went to the supermarket today and I'd guess around only 10% of people had masks on, so it seems farfetched to expect everyone to start complying without any drama.
Why wouldn't you wear a face covering in a confined indoor space with strangers?
Aside from the specific exemptions listed in the UK government guidance, I cannot think of a single reason why you would not wear one in those settings. It is neither onerous nor costly.
Aside from the specific exemptions listed in the UK government guidance, I cannot think of a single reason why you would not wear one in those settings. It is neither onerous nor costly.
The crappy cloth masks everyone is wearing obviously aren't doing much in reality, but if it makes the more vulnerable feel safer being out in public, I'm happy to wear one. You have to be a real arsehole to throw a strop over something as stupid as putting a mask on for 5 mins in Tesco.
Have to say I'm shocked at the result. Most of the westerners here in Hong Kong don't wear a mask.
It's virtually impossible to not use your nose for breathing unless it's physically restricted.