The mask debate

[MadMike]

Funny, but the hat looks faker than Firmino's teeth. It's shopped.

 

[Cheimoon]

So there are a number of complicating factors, ranging from the environment it takes place in to the way it is adhered to, that feed into the decision. Or, as I said in the post you quoted, it is not "the obvious decision in all scenarios".

I'm not saying you can't make a moral argument, but should you? Who benefits from that, aside from the people providing the shame?

It seems pretty obvious to me, actually. It's not like it's a matter of opinion, taste, or convenience. There is a government recommendation related to stopping something very harmful from spreading across all of society, and doing so successfully woukd require participation from all of society - as was the case with the lockdowns. The moral argument is right there for the taking - especially since just keeping it to the science seems to lead to a lot of shrugs.

 

[Carolina Red]

Weird how the tide has changed on masks in the US. We even have people mask shaming for not wearing on.

There were many more defending not wearing one back in March/April, people in the medical profession.

@Carolina Red was very vocal on here that people should not be wearing one (partner works in hospital iirc) but in the US it's become a big political thing and don't see the same people explaining how they can make the virus worse by adjusting the mask constantly, not wearing it properly and taking it off incorrectly etc. Has your position changed Carolina Red?

If you go back and look at my post history on the issue, I stated masks were being worn improperly so as to make them useless and that they were taking up a very limited supply that the medical field needed... with a lockdown in place, the masks could go to the healthcare workers and would not be needed by the general population. My argument about them at that time was not a political one.

At the point we are now, our government has foolishly lifted the lockdown, things have started going to shit, and my city has issued a mask ordinance, so I wear one without complaint.

 

[Brwned]

It seems pretty obvious to me, actually. It's not like it's a matter of opinion, taste, or convenience. There is a government recommendation related to stopping something very harmful from spreading across all of society, and doing so successfully woukd require participation from all of society - as was the case with the lockdowns. The moral argument is right there for the taking - especially since just keeping it to the science seems to lead to a lot of shrugs.

The obvious decision in all scenarios? You said it was arguably an obligation in crowded or indoor areas, while pointing out some of the complicating factors about its use in outdoor spaces.

I suppose that's part of the problem with the moral argument. The people making it are so keen to ram their views down other people's throats, because ultimately it's about demonstrating how right they are. Effective communication is secondary.

 

[WI_Red]

America seems quite unique in that sense.

This might win understatement of the year.

Generally because wearing industrial grade masks, as you will know, is not something you want to be doing on a prolonged basis.

It depends on what you mean my industrial grade masks. Are you referring to surgical masks and N95 masks or a HFM like respirator? I have worked in both BSL 2 and BSL2.5 (not a "real" designation, but essentially a BSL2 HIV lab with a pressurized entry room for donning/removing PPE). In both of those labs we would use surgical masks for varying lengths of time. For the BSL2 lab (bacterial research) we wore them when infecting/evaluating/dissecting mice as well as when we were working with pathogens of higher infectivity/morbidity. In the BSL2.5 lab they were worn the entire time you were in the lab. No member of the lab had any adverse reactions to wearing these masks. Similarly, health care workers can work long shifts constantly in masks (either one if there is a shortage or, hopefully, changing between patients). There are multiple papers out there looking at the physiological effects of masks on health care workers and patients and most, if not all, demonstrate that the physiological impact on the wearer is not significantly different than not wearing a mask.

Generally I broadly agree with what you are saying and I do sympathise with your situation. My main point is that there is more science than just blocking droplets e.g. its also about how the droplets travel, collide and evaporate as well. We should see both sides to wearing masks and explore both sides. I also feel too much emphasis is placed on facial coverings/masks and more emphasis should be placed on social distancing and washing hands - this should be drummed into people every day. They are much simple instructions to give than facial coverings, require much less effort and are probably the most effective measures for everyone to follow.

I think we are in agreement that hand washing and social distancing are effective and easy measures to describe and perform. I think where we are in disagreement is in the effectiveness of large scale, consistent, mask wearing. Mathematical modeling of mask wearing suggests that even flimsy cloth masks can make a statistically significant impact on disease spread. Here is one article I tried (, warning heavy presence of math) to comprehend when it came out. Thankfully the authors did a fantastic job breaking down their model and results. Here is the key line form the conclusion.

From: Eikenberry et al.To mask or not to mask: Modeling the potential for face mask use by the general public to curtail the COVID-19 pandemic
" Masks alone, unless they are highly effective and nearly universal, may have only a small effect (but still nontrivial, in terms of absolute lives saved) in more severe epidemics, such as the ongoing epidemic in New York state. However, the relative benefit to general mask use may increase with other decreases in β0, such that masks can synergize with other public health measures. Thus, it is important that masks not be viewed as an alternative, but as a complement, to other public health control measures (including non-pharmaceutical interventions, such as social distancing, self-isolation etc.). Delaying mask adoption is also detrimental. These factors together indicate that even in areas or states where the COVID-19 burden is low (e.g. the Dakotas), early aggressive action that includes face masks may pay dividends. "

Where β0 is the rate of infectious contact. My basic point is, and has remained, that the wearing of masks at all times when indoors and when in high risk situations outdoors, remains a minimally invasive action that can be performed by society to provide a greater level of protection to all, especially when used in conjunction with the other actions you mentioned.

I have yet to see ANY non-medical argument as to why properly wearing a clean mask is an undo burden placed on people.

 

[TheNewEra]

I live in Dubai currently and it's approximately a £600 fine if you don't wear a mask.

There's around 300 cases here a day, but the recovery rate is double that some days, there's approximately 11,000 total cases currently.

Here there is a contact tracing app which is highly recommended too (if you go outdoors, it broadcasts your id and timestamps it as you walk past people) so if you are in close proximity to someone (even a total stranger) and they test positive, you are asked to go and do a test (testing is completely free here) but it means that the 'patient B' who is completely unknown can be traced immediately.

Masks work, so does contact tracing and bulk testing.

There seems to be a little bit of arrogance and entitlement in the USA and also the UK currently about not wearing a mask, plus large public gatherings... yet we are fighting a pandemic.

People SHOULD be listening to experts, albeit a countries medical officers, the WHO, guidelines should be followed.

If you are within 2 metres of someone, even talking to that person can get you infected (without a mask) because particles you can't even see can infect you through talking.

Masks SHOULD be mandatory when outdoors, the UK doesn't currently even have contact tracing so it's even harder to test people, if patient B is sat next to you in the coffee shop and you have never spoken to them, and they infect you through passing (no mask etc) how do you know to test patient C, D... etc who has yet to show symptoms?

If you are asymptomatic and you have the virus and you talk to anybody without a mask there's a real risk you pass it on to them, especially if you are within 2 metres. You may not show and symptoms and be a carrier. Plus you could pass it on to a child or someone who is going to visit someone who is elderly, if you transmit the virus the likelihood is in a few days those people can infect 20 others, masks prevent that.

One reason why countries like S Korea fought the virus early. They have had to deal with similar pandemics before, the western world hasn't had to since Spanish Flu, not on this scale.

S Korea also attributed the success due to large testing and the use of masks.

Masks, Social Distancing should be mandatory until October/November/December and heavy fines should be imposed, wearing a mask right now is the best way to avoid spreading the virus, until a vaccine is found, social distancing + masks are a must.

 

[lynchie]

I live in Dubai currently and it's approximately a £600 fine if you don't wear a mask.

There's around 300 cases here a day, but the recovery rate is double that some days, there's approximately 11,000 total cases currently.

Here the is a contact tracing app which is highly recommended too (if you go outdoors, it broadcasts your id and timestamps it as you walk past people) so if you are in close proximity to someone (even a total stranger) and they test positive, you are asked to go and do a test (testing is completely free here) but it means that the 'patient B' who is completely unknown can be traced immediately.

Masks work, so does contact tracing and bulk testing.

There seems to be a little bit of arrogance and entitlement in the USA and also the UK currently about not wearing a mask, plus large public gatherings... yet we are fighting a pandemic.

People SHOULD be listening to experts, albeit a countries medical officers, the WHO, guidelines should be followed.

If you are within 2 metres of someone, even talking to that person can get you infected (without a mask) because particles you can't even see can infect you through talking.

Masks SHOULD be mandatory when outdoors, the UK doesn't currently even have contact tracing so it's even harder to test people.

If you are asymptomatic and you have the virus and you talk to anybody without a mask there's a real risk you pass it on to them, especially if you are within 2 metres. You may not show and symptoms and be a carrier. Plus you could pass it on to a child or someone who is going to visit someone who is elderly, if you transmit the virus the likelihood is in a few days those people can infect 20 others, masks prevent that.

One reason why countries like S Korea fought the virus early. They have had to deal with similar pandemics before, the western world hasn't had to since Spanish Flu, not on this scale.

S Korea also attributed the success due to large testing and the use of masks.

Masks, Social Distancing should be mandatory until October/November/December and heavy fines should be imposed.

The two bits in bold here are inconsistent. Experts aren't recommending blanket mandating of masks outdoors. Insisting that people do something that they can quite easily find is unneccessary will only lead to undermining of recommendations that actually do help (e.g. wearing masks indoors and where social distancing is not possible).

The focus on masks is I guess because they are a very visible and intuitive measure, but other measures like distancing, hand washing and ventilation are likely more important. In particular, I think people are acting like wearing a mask allows them to ignore distancing, which is just plain wrong.

 

[dogrob]

In Germany its compulsory when shopping or using public transport, at work we have to wear them when we can not keep to the 1.5 to 2 Meters safe distancing and I have no problems with that.

 

[TheNewEra]

The two bits in bold here are inconsistent. Experts aren't recommending blanket mandating of masks outdoors. Insisting that people do something that they can quite easily find is unneccessary will only lead to undermining of recommendations that actually do help (e.g. wearing masks indoors and where social distancing is not possible).

The focus on masks is I guess because they are a very visible and intuitive measure, but other measures like distancing, hand washing and ventilation are likely more important. In particular, I think people are acting like wearing a mask allows them to ignore distancing, which is just plain wrong.

2M distancing should still be followed, but the point of a mask is if you do have to pass someone you don't spread anything, or if you cough or sneeze it isn't going on a surface that can then infect someone walking by later on.

WHO Masks: https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...9/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

The general public should wear non-medical masks where there is widespread transmission and when physical distancing is difficult, such as on public transport, in shops or in other confined or crowded environments.

Additionally, the WHO has released new guidance on cloth masks, recommending that they consist of at least three layers of different materials: an inner layer being an absorbent material like cotton, a middle layer of non-woven materials such as polypropylene (for the filter) and an outer layer, which is a non absorbent material such as a polyester or a polyester blend.

Masks don't mean abolish/ignore other advice, hand-washing, social-distancing is still required, whoever thinks contrary to that hasn't really been following WHO recommendations at all.

As countries 'ease' restrictions Masks are a surefire way to keep limiting the spread of infections.

Even if you think you (meaning the general population) thinks they can keep social distancing, the reality is its not always possible so it's easier to just mandate mask usage everywhere.

Madrid has been imposing Mask laws too and the cases in Spain dropped dramatically.

What I don't understand generally is where countries have introduced measures that clearly work, and other countries choose to ignore it and cases continue to rise

 

[WI_Red]

What I don't understand generally is where countries have introduced measures that clearly work, and other countries choose to ignore it and cases continue to rise

@TheNewEra meet America. America is a bit of an asshole who loves spouting stupid shit and has few redeeming qualities. Basically the YouTube comment section of countries.

 

[redshaw]

If you go back and look at my post history on the issue, I stated masks were being worn improperly so as to make them useless and that they were taking up a very limited supply that the medical field needed... with a lockdown in place, the masks could go to the healthcare workers and would not be needed by the general population. My argument about them at that time was not a political one.

At the point we are now, our government has foolishly lifted the lockdown, things have started going to shit, and my city has issued a mask ordinance, so I wear one without complaint.

Never suggested it was. I know your stance was based on evidence of usefulness and supply.

It was a comment in general about how it's become political now, ie today or in recent weeks.

 

[0le]

I have yet to see ANY non-medical argument as to why properly wearing a clean mask is an undo burden placed on people.

There was a post in the main thread showing three ways to clean masks and one involved UV light. I can't remember the other two, but I remember thinking at the time that all three required an industrial setting to properly clean masks and be able to possibly reuse the "single use" masks. My point was about reusing homemade masks and making sure people clean it properly. I was curious whether there were any particular things you needed to do. The UK advice here on this matter has been lacking. I guess people just chuck them in the washing machine and hope for the best? I hope they do anyway...

There are certain medical situations where it places a burden on people. Some people on the autism spectrum disorder have a sensory issues with certain fabrics and textures, so I can imagine wearing masks for them would be highly difficult. I agree though that for nearly all people, there won't be a medical problem for them to wear a mask.

There seems to be a little bit of arrogance and entitlement in the USA and also the UK currently about not wearing a mask, plus large public gatherings... yet we are fighting a pandemic.

Regarding masks, people in the UK have worn them on public transport because that has been mandated. There has been a certain arrogance demonstrated by breaking both social distancing and large gatherings though. Having said that, the local government did tell people to go shopping and to spend etc. So its a bit of both really regarding the social distancing/gatherings matter. And the debate in the UK is nothing like the hotly political debate in America.

If you are within 2 metres of someone, even talking to that person can get you infected (without a mask) because particles you can't even see can infect you through talking.

They aren't particles, they are droplets. The distinction is important. You can say particulate matter if you want or particulates. But better to just say droplets and avoid confusion.

Masks SHOULD be mandatory when outdoors, the UK doesn't currently even have contact tracing so it's even harder to test people, if patient B is sat next to you in the coffee shop and you have never spoken to them, and they infect you through passing (no mask etc) how do you know to test patient C, D... etc who has yet to show symptoms?

Masks aren't necessary outdoors where social distancing can be observed and crowds avoided. I mean, you state that it should be mandatory, and then give an example which is an indoor situation? The physical behaviour of droplets in an outdoors situation is different to an indoor situation and the risks outdoors will be less.

If you are asymptomatic and you have the virus and you talk to anybody without a mask there's a real risk you pass it on to them, especially if you are within 2 metres. You may not show and symptoms and be a carrier.

Yes, but we need to state that the risk is dependant on the surrounding environmental circumstances as well.

Plus you could pass it on to a child or someone who is going to visit someone who is elderly, if you transmit the virus the likelihood is in a few days those people can infect 20 others, masks prevent that.

Yes, but better to say they add another tool to the weaponry so to to speak rather than they alone can make the big difference.

 

[Carolina Red]

Never suggested it was. I know your stance was based on evidence of usefulness and supply.

It was a comment in general about how it's become political now, ie today or in recent weeks.

Sorry, I wasn’t trying to make a claim against you there, just saying in general, as that’s what the issue has become about socially.

But yes, the politicization of the issue has been ridiculous. I’m left with the funny impression that had these “rah rah Im a Patriot!” types had been around for WWII ration cards, we would have lost.

 

[Solius]

Anyone thinking of not wearing one should look at that diagram of how a ventilator actually works and what happens to your body. It's terrifying.

 

[WI_Red]

Sorry, I wasn’t trying to make a claim against you there, just saying in general, as that’s what the issue has become about socially.

But yes, the politicization of the issue has been ridiculous. I’m left with the funny impression that had these “rah rah Im a Patriot!” types had been around for WWII ration cards, we would have lost.

Ration Cards? Shit, you would have had them claiming Pearl Harbor was Fake News or a Deep State operation if it was Trump and not FDR.

 

[TheNewEra]

Masks aren't necessary outdoors where social distancing can be observed and crowds avoided. I mean, you state that it should be mandatory, and then give an example which is an indoor situation? The physical behaviour of droplets in an outdoors situation is different to an indoor situation and the risks outdoors will be less.

I certainly don't disagree with anything you have said all great points.

There are plenty of cases for indoor situations such as restaurants, shops, when pubs reopen for example, people will most likely start watching football as they did, in general any public forum where people walk by each other.

Outdoors situation yes it's different however in general people tend to gather or walk similar routes, especially in walkable cities in the world like Madrid, London and even major towns and cities. People do naturally get drawn to certain areas of towns/cities, and of course some places have a higher population density.

The risk of course is significantly lower than say a healthcare worker or of course venues like football stadiums, but it does not negate all risk.

Even if the risk is 0.5% or 0.01% of infection outdoors without a mask and 2m social distancing, on a daily basis you are still getting multiple infections from just that even with severely low odds, anything that can be done to minimise risks honestly I don't really see much way around it.

Obviously here in Dubai it's a bit different because people naturally gather in places like Malls (because it's 40+ degrees outside) so yes here is not like you can walk down an empty street with a nice cool breeze.

I think the UK is mostly to do with people A) gathering and not caring for advice, B) going to places like beaches (bournemouth) and just a complete disregard in general.

So in that case perhaps the UK and the US isn't because of social distancing guidelines or the lack of masks, but largely to do with people being ignorant to follow even basic precautions.

 

[utdalltheway]

What kind of medical conditions would inhibit wearing a mask? I ask because i see that touted as a reason some folk won’t wear one.
If it’s a breathing thing then surely they best stay home because if they caught the virus they’d be fcuked, right?

 

[oates]

I wear a mask when other people are about because combined with social distancing it supposedly gives more prevention against giving Covid-19 to someone else if I happen to have it and be unaware. If I knew I had Covid then I wouldn't go out at all but it is nice that other people out in public here also buy into that sort of contract and wear a mask in public for my sake and others.

I wouldn't wear one in the car because who am I likely to infect? I have it with me on the off-chance I'll be stopped for some reason and can then put it on, and because I'll need it where I am going to.

Is it foolproof? No, but supposedly it helps, that's all we need to know.

 

[0le]

What kind of medical conditions would inhibit wearing a mask? I ask because i see that touted as a reason some folk won’t wear one.
If it’s a breathing thing then surely they best stay home because if they caught the virus they’d be fcuked, right?

Sensory issues to certain fabrics, e.g. people on the autism spectrum disorder. See link below, with quote of the relevant part. Granted it is a very small minority of people.
https://www.autism.org.uk/about/behaviour/sensory-world.aspx

Touch

OVER-SENSITIVE

• Touch can be painful and uncomfortable - people may not like to be touched and this can affect their relationships with others.
• Dislikes having anything on hands or feet.
• Difficulties brushing and washing hair because head is sensitive.
• May find many food textures uncomfortable.
• Only tolerates certain types of clothing or textures.

 

[Cheimoon]

The obvious decision in all scenarios? You said it was arguably an obligation in crowded or indoor areas, while pointing out some of the complicating factors about its use in outdoor spaces.

I suppose that's part of the problem with the moral argument. The people making it are so keen to ram their views down other people's throats, because ultimately it's about demonstrating how right they are. Effective communication is secondary.

Sorry, not sure where your reference to 'all scenarios' is coming from? Did someone say that? Not sure what the 'ramming down' refers to either. I don't see it in this thread, I don't think.

To be clear, I think everybody would agree that masks are not required 24/7, but only indoors away from the home and outdoors in areas where social distancing isn't possibly. That leaves some grey areas, such as roofed patios or the issue that it's bad practice to take the mask off and put it back on repeatedly, in which case people should err on the side of caution. (I.e, when in doubt, keep it on.)

Apart from that, this is really the main point supporting the moral argument:

I have yet to see ANY non-medical argument as to why properly wearing a clean mask is an undo burden placed on people.

 

[sammsky1]

If everyone thought like that we will be living with this damn virus for a bit longer

Of course. But unless made non-negotiable, the vast majority of people in the UK will not wear masks unless instructed to do so. The vast majority of people in the UK aren’t bad people who actively want others to suffer either. They just don’t feel like wearing a mask. Mask-wearing is a cultural concept that is going to take a long time to embed within most western societies. It won’t happen with any real speed unless made compulsory.

Have to agree with @Kag on this. Boris's entire covid19 'common sense' stance is such a cop out. With something so important and with so many unmanageable consequences, behaviour change is either law or it isn't.

The other issue is the prominence UK gives to UK science, whose advice has produced the very worst numbers. Perhaps UK science isn't that great on covid19 mask wearing?

US/UK having worst numbers in the world is because their leaders were too afraid and too late to enforce crucial changes to life. Wearing of masks is one of those issues, and the blame lies purely with Government leadership.

 

[Green_Red]

Amazon, Groupon, pharmacies - you can make a face-covering with ties in a couple of minutes from an old tee-shirt.

Thanks Penna, just bought a box of 50. Should do us a while.

 

[Marcelinho87]

I don't wear one but then I don't go out anywhere so no reason to.

 

[Crackers]

I agree with the idea that those willingly not wearing a mask, are selfish.

And it's not unreasonable to think so. What's so bad with wanting to wear a device that helps stop the spread of a virus that has (stats from the google covid link)

• scientific proof that masks stops the slows of the virus
• 10.2m cases
• 503,000 deaths
• 1311 cases per million

The more people wearing masks, staying local and avoiding unnecessary actions and we'll be out of this sooner.
If we don't take the necessary precautions as a globe, we'll prolong this virus. It's that simple. Anyone who refuses to wear a mask on these grounds is selfish.

 

[Buster15]

Anyone thinking of not wearing one should look at that diagram of how a ventilator actually works and what happens to your body. It's terrifying.

The type of person who won't wear a face mask is the type of idiot who thinks it couldn't possibly happen to them.

 

[bleedred]

McConnell urges Americans to continue to wear masks
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/29/mcconnell-urges-americans-to-continue-to-wear-masks-344951

Democratic pig!!!!!

 

[Organic Potatoes]

McConnell urges Americans to continue to wear masks
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/29/mcconnell-urges-americans-to-continue-to-wear-masks-344951

Democratic pig!!!!!

Continue to wear masks? They never started, because those of Mitch’s ilk made it a point of ridicule.

That‘s a bitch-made headline from Politico.

 

[Redplane]

McConnell urges Americans to continue to wear masks
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/29/mcconnell-urges-americans-to-continue-to-wear-masks-344951

Democratic pig!!!!!

They re trying to spin the narrative now. They started pretending that the reasons states like MI and NY have had success is because of them, yes the President and VP who openly attacked and ridiculed those same states, actively limited resources for them- and even called for insurrection (in Trump s case). Add another one to the book of hypocrisy.

 

[utdalltheway]

This whole mask debate and the Karen thing, amongst others, got me thinking of the asshole ratio of the US vs other developed countries.
A good argument could be made that approx 30% of voting age Americans are assholes (basically Trump base %).

What’s the asshole % in your own country?

Btw, I used to think Ireland had less than its fair share but then I remembered Fianna Fáil voters.....

 

[4bars]

I know that the N95 (US), FFP2 (Europe) and other countries equivalent are not recommended ( and some places banned if not for medical purposes) because it only protects for inhalation and not exhaustion, therefore only protecting you and not the others

Besides the quirurgical and clothes ones that we all see around, is there another type of mask that protects both ways? N100/FFP3 do that?

 

[Tibs]

This whole mask debate and the Karen thing, amongst others, got me thinking of the asshole ratio of the US vs other developed countries.
A good argument could be made that approx 30% of voting age Americans are assholes (basically Trump base %).

What’s the asshole % in your own country?

Btw, I used to think Ireland had less than its fair share but then I remembered Fianna Fáil voters.....

I'd say it's higher than 30% in the USA.

In the UK, easily 20%

 

[0le]

I know that the N95 (US), FFP2 (Europe) and other countries equivalent are not recommended ( and some places banned if not for medical purposes) because it only protects for inhalation and not exhaustion, therefore only protecting you and not the others

Besides the quirurgical and clothes ones that we all see around, is there another type of mask that protects both ways? N100/FFP3 do that?

? I think you've got that the wrong way round mate. N95 and FFP2 masks protect from both inhalation and exhalation. Surgical masks only protect from exhalation. They cannot protect the user from inhaling droplets because there is no tight seal around the face. Some of the air flow will simply be directed along the path of least resistance, i.e. through the "gaps" where a seal would have been. Some of the small droplets (~1 micron) entrained in that air flow will simply be inhaled. This is actually the reason why NHS staff are given N95 and FFP2 masks - they offer protection to the patients but also to the staff. FFP3 is similar to FFP2 except it is rated for slightly better protection, i.e. it will block a slightly higher quantity of the particles/droplets. I don't know if the distinction between solid particles and liquid droplets is important in the selection of the mask.

 

[lynchie]

I know that the N95 (US), FFP2 (Europe) and other countries equivalent are not recommended ( and some places banned if not for medical purposes) because it only protects for inhalation and not exhaustion, therefore only protecting you and not the others

Besides the quirurgical and clothes ones that we all see around, is there another type of mask that protects both ways? N100/FFP3 do that?

? I think you've got that the wrong way round mate. N95 and FFP2 masks protect from both inhalation and exhalation. Surgical masks only protect from exhalation. They cannot protect the user from inhaling droplets because there is no tight seal around the face. Some of the air flow will simply be directed along the path of least resistance, i.e. through the "gaps" where a seal would have been. Some of the small droplets (~1 micron) entrained in that air flow will simply be inhaled. This is actually the reason why NHS staff are given N95 and FFP2 masks - they offer protection to the patients but also to the staff. FFP3 is similar to FFP2 except it is rated for slightly better protection, i.e. it will block a slightly higher quantity of the particles/droplets. I don't know if the distinction between solid particles and liquid droplets is important in the selection of the mask.

There are some valved masks that are designed to stop anything getting in, but allow essentially free flow outward, which are intended to improve breathability. That's not true of all N95 or equivalent masks, but there's certainly been warnings out that using such masks are essentially useless.

 

[0le]

There are some valved masks that are designed to stop anything getting in, but allow essentially free flow outward, which are intended to improve breathability. That's not true of all N95 or equivalent masks, but there's certainly been warnings out that using such masks are essentially useless.

Fair enough, I stand corrected there.

 

[GiddyUp]

This whole mask debate and the Karen thing, amongst others, got me thinking of the asshole ratio of the US vs other developed countries.
A good argument could be made that approx 30% of voting age Americans are assholes (basically Trump base %).

What’s the asshole % in your own country?

Btw, I used to think Ireland had less than its fair share but then I remembered Fianna Fáil voters.....

Brilliant, I always use this when discussing stupidity. I reckon it's 30% across the board unless you have a rise in right wing then it jumps up to about 40%, especially in the US where you have the dumb argument of they are all the same. Ireland us solid 30% especially now.

 

[Sigma]

Voted for the 2nd option (Yes but only if it’s mandatory), but I would extend that to also wearing a mask in stores (public indoor spaces) and public transport. I don't like wearing masks (I find them uncomfortable) and I don't see a reason to wear it outdoors. In doors makes more sense though.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I don't see a reason to wear it outdoors

Streets, parks...anywhere where people congregate is a good place to wear one, indoor or outdoor irrespective. If you are alone hiking on the mountain, then perhaps not.

 

[Redplane]

Brilliant, I always use this when discussing stupidity. I reckon it's 30% across the board unless you have a rise in right wing then it jumps up to about 40%, especially in the US where you have the dumb argument of they are all the same. Ireland us solid 30% especially now.

As the Borat effect has shown us - a lot of people may be assholes but a lot of them tend to surpresss it or not be given much attention - it takes a leader of assholes to embolden them and make them feel like they re not the assholes, but that everyone else is.

 

[Sigma]

Streets, parks...anywhere where people congregate is a good place to wear one, indoor or outdoor irrespective. If you are alone hiking on the mountain, then perhaps not.

I mean the evidence is that outdoor transmission is virtually nil.

 

[nimic]

Funny, but the hat looks faker than Firmino's teeth. It's shopped.

Huh? Looks completely real to me.