The McFred midfield duo

kouroux

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As I've had it enough with them because they offer no control nor any protection, I'm asking the caftards for suggestions to replace them.
Start Pogba and accept the risks ? (They cannot be worse than the current ones we see with them). Play DVB more regularly ?
What can be done ?
 

FootballHQ

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I'm really amazed you guys didn't sign a quality CM in the window. You did well in other areas but seems a bit like Fergie's last season when you had average quality in there compared to defence and final third. He was good enough still to win the league, OGS isn't.

I said it before today aswell but no way would I swop Luiz or John McGinn for the two sitters you had today even if they have good games on occasions. We had better today in that area and we'll probably finish 8th.

Short term solution to drop Pogba back into middle two for added creativity but you've seen pros and cons of that over last 5 seasons.
 

kouroux

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I'm really amazed you guys didn't sign a quality CM in the window. You did well in other areas but seems a bit like Fergie's last season when you had average quality in there compared to defence and final third. He was good enough still to win the league, OGS isn't.

I said it before today aswell but no way would I swop Luiz or John McGinn for the two sitters you had today even if they have good games on occasions. We had better today in that area and we'll probably finish 8th.

Short term solution to drop Pogba back into middle two for added creativity but you've seen pros and cons of that over last 5 seasons.
I'm told they offer protection but they don't do it anymore and when it comes to building attacks... The less said, the better.
Something has got to give, no other top teams regularly plays 2 CMs as average as them
 

Dembeza

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We should just play one of them and either Pogba or Donny.

City just dominated Chelsea with a Mildfield of Silva, KDB and Rodri. Other teams also seem to be able to play with one defensive CM and the rest attacking.

We can’t be playing McFred against AstonVilla when they lined up with 5 defenders. If we can’t play with one CDM and we need Two against EVERY opponent then the problem isn’t the players it’s those who are coaching.
 

Red Stone

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Some of the mistakes Fred makes on the ball are unacceptable on any level where you get paid in some shape or form to play football. Even if you only get a burger and a beer at the post-match barbecue those mistakes are unforgiveable, and they completely negate any work he does off the ball. Winning the ball ten times is worth feck all if you give it straight back to them just as many times. I'm at the point where I get visibly angry when I see him get the ball, because I know what's coming. He's offensively destructive to our play.
 

Jeppers7

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So bad we play them both. They’re both mediocre players and we suffer as a result. We will have to get to January then try and rectify the position. In the meantime I’d play one of them with Pogba and free a space up for Sancho or Rashford
 

Jaykespeare88

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Blatantly obvious at around 30 mins there was no point of having mctominay on the pitch, we wait until 80mins to take him off. Did he have any meaningful involvement? Please some one remind me, Fred's so irractic, but today he was good at nipping in quick and winning the ball, otherwise close to useless, sound fanciful but I would've moved fred to left back, pulled pogba into midfield and got Sancho/lingard/cavani on when Shaw went down.
 

Amadaeus

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We should just play one of them and either Pogba or Donny.

City just dominated Chelsea with a Mildfield of Silva, KDB and Rodri. Other teams also seem to be able to play with one defensive CM and the rest attacking.

We can’t be playing McFred against AstonVilla when they lined up with 5 defenders. If we can’t play with one CDM and we need Two against EVERY opponent then the problem isn’t the players it’s those who are coaching.
Exactly, it is all about coaching. Pogba and vdb along with one of Fred and Mctominay should offer as much control and protection as the like of kdb, silva, and rodri. Mcfred works when we sit deep and counter mainly against top team, but against smaller teams only one should work
 

manunited1919

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The failure to get away from McFred is squarely on Ole. Presidents have been impeached for less than this.
 

lilcurt

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We should just play one of them and either Pogba or Donny.

City just dominated Chelsea with a Mildfield of Silva, KDB and Rodri. Other teams also seem to be able to play with one defensive CM and the rest attacking.

We can’t be playing McFred against AstonVilla when they lined up with 5 defenders. If we can’t play with one CDM and we need Two against EVERY opponent then the problem isn’t the players it’s those who are coaching.
Amazing what can be done with decent coaching.

We leadership can't coach, so they try and stack forward who can deliver moments of brilliants and the load the midfield with defensive players to try and defend in numbers.
 

Jaykespeare88

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So bad we play them both. They’re both mediocre players and we suffer as a result. We will have to get to January then try and rectify the position. In the meantime I’d play one of them with Pogba and free a space up for Sancho or Rashford
Did Matic/VDB do enough midweek to show why they should be starting, personally I thought so, matic be deep, is big, good on the ball>Mcotminay
VDB can/wants to pass the ball forward>Fred
 

Dembeza

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So bad we play them both. They’re both mediocre players and we suffer as a result. We will have to get to January then try and rectify the position. In the meantime I’d play one of them with Pogba and free a space up for Sancho or Rashford
It’s not good that they are both not great, but having two of them at the same time is just ridiculous.

We can’t sacrifice the Mildfield and still hope to have any chance of winning anything this season.

We aren’t that great with them and they aren’t offering any protection. They are a double negative, they offer nothing in attack and in defense.
 

Aouer-United

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I tell you what, Mctominay is not very good at defending. The myth that he's great defensively is because we only can notice when he shows up to defend, that's all he can do. Running headless chicken trying to defend doesn't mean you have great defensive work. Pogba has done more for us defensively against Aston Villa than Mctominay does.
 

DickDastardly

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The magnificent duo is gonna be Ole's downfall.

They can't play simple things.

Putting Pogba in that CM spot won't improve shit.
Matić is done and dusted.
VDB also not suited for that spot...but, i'd rather have him then this two.


The solution?
Maybe change the formation?
Bring back Fellaini?
Get Scholes back from retirement?
 

Tarrou

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I don't think we have a better option right now

Matic is gone, Donny has been largely crap and Pogba needs more protection than either of McFred can offer

it's crazy that we spent all this money and haven't addressed this
 

Jeppers7

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I tell you what, Mctominay is not very good at defending. The myth that he's great defensively is because we only can notice when he shows up to defend, that's all he can do. Running headless chicken trying to defend doesn't mean you have great defensive work. Pogba has done more for us defensively against Aston Villa than Mctominay does.
I’m amazed this doesn’t get picked up on more, honestly I watch him at times and he’s never in the right place. He doesn’t sense danger at all and players run off him for fun. Rewatch West Ham’s goal last Sunday and watch McT in the build up.
 

bleedred

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Ole had 5/6 windows to do something about it and the number of signings he made to address this,0.
It does show that he thinks they are good enough.
 

Lentwood

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We need to do something. Yes, we have to look at the manager and the coaching staff, but let's take that as red for a minute.

These two just aren't good enough. There's a Villa fan posting in here about how he wouldn't swap the two Villa midfielders for them, and I find myself agreeing!

Perhaps this season we should just throw caution to the wind, play Pogba and vdB in DM and try to outscore/outpass teams?

Or, could we look at a 5-3-2, with Sancho at RWB and a midfield three of Pogba, Fernandes plus one?

Not saying these are the answers necessarily but we need to do something. Neither of the two we have now are anywhere near good enough on the ball
 
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As I've had it enough with them because they offer no control nor any protection, I'm asking the caftards for suggestions to replace them.
Start Pogba and accept the risks ? (They cannot be worse than the current ones we see with them). Play DVB more regularly ?
What can be done ?
Start one next to Pogba or DVB. Period. The defence with Varane in it doesn't need two of them. The sooner the coaching staff realise something that obvious the better
 

The Red Thinker

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Fred will go down in history as one of our worst over passers in midfield ever. Absolute joke of a player. I'm used to seeing Keano, Scholes later on, Carrick... feck me Fred is a cartoon. An absolute insult to the glorious history of United midfielders.
 

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Play mediocre players expect mediocre results. Douglas Luiz showed today that hes better than Fred
 

villain

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Apparently they're there for their defensive stability & hard work. I'm not seeing much evidence of this, this season.
 

kouroux

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Does anyone have stats of passing between the two of them ? We have big problems progressing the ball up the pitch and that's why it makes Bruno drop back to attempt his crazy passes
 

izec

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There is no top manager in the world that wouldn't have taken one of them off at HT at the latest. Shambolic.

Ole is seemingly not bothered though.
 

morbidsaint

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We have the worst central midfield in the league, or close to it. Matic is legit our best central midfielder.. no, seriously he still is. Of course, only if Pogba is playing out on the wing. We have Fred, McTominay, Matic, VDB.. Has to be BY FAR the worst midfield in at least the top half of the league.
 

Castia

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Just on the way back from the game even the Villa fans in the tram laughing at how shit this midfield is.

Fred is a fecking joke of a player. How he gets picked every week I’ll never know.
 

noodlehair

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As I've had it enough with them because they offer no control nor any protection, I'm asking the caftards for suggestions to replace them.
Start Pogba and accept the risks ? (They cannot be worse than the current ones we see with them). Play DVB more regularly ?
What can be done ?
They were poor today. The problem is they are the only duo we have that works, and it only works when both are playing well, and at the moment neither is.

I would give VDB more of a chance but that will have its own problems. We've already seen what happens if you play Pogba or Matic in there...it just makes things worse.

The solution was to prioritise signing a midfielder in the summer but instead we signed Sancho so he could sit on the bench.
 

Oranges038

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There is no top manager in the world that wouldn't have taken one of them off at HT at the latest. Shambolic.

Ole is seemingly not bothered though.
There's no top manager in the world that would stick with them week in week out for close to 3 seasons now.

They offer nothing on the ball.

The only way to win anything with them is to go direct and just bypass them in attack and let them sit and shield the back 4.
 

DWelbz19

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Play mediocre players expect mediocre results. Douglas Luiz showed today that hes better than Fred
In the same vein — have mediocre coaches, expect mediocre results?
 

kouroux

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They were poor today. The problem is they are the only duo we have that works, and it only works when both are playing well, and at the moment neither is.

I would give VDB more of a chance but that will have its own problems. We've already seen what happens if you play Pogba or Matic in there...it just makes things worse.

The solution was to prioritise signing a midfielder in the summer but instead we signed Sancho so he could sit on the bench.
It's actually crazy that we are resorting to find the least shit options in midfield. I know I just cannot take it anymore with McFred
 

MichaelRed

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Why ask? We already know the answer. Matic & Donny are out cup midfield for some reason despite controlling the midfield in every game together. McFred should be the 2nd string midfield.
 

Fooza

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There is no top manager in the world that wouldn't have taken one of them off at HT at the latest. Shambolic.

Ole is seemingly not bothered though.
This, spot on.
 

Will Singh

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Having a player like Fred in our team just shows how neglected the midfield position is. Ole basically has a brilliant defence and attack, but the backbone holding these to areas together which is the midfield is championship quality. I’m disappointed with Carrick as him being in the coaching team should have pointed out to Ole we need midfielders. Sancho and Ronaldo are a waste of money which should have gone on our midfield! Ole has had he’s fun he can feck off now!
 

DWelbz19

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Does anyone have stats of passing between the two of them ? We have big problems progressing the ball up the pitch and that's why it makes Bruno drop back to attempt his crazy passes
I looked at this a little while ago:
Sure it’s probably been mentioned in a thread that’s 3 pages deep about stats, but McTominay’s 51 passes per 90 puts him in the 47th percentile for attempted passes!

Having a midfielder who just simply doesn’t get on the ball and pass it around near enough is just not good enough. That’s insane. 47th!

For comparisons sake: Jorginho, Kovacic, Rodri, Henderson, and Gundogan are all comfortably in the 90th percentiles (70+ passes attempted per game). Fabinho 88th, Fred 79th.
It’s a fundamental flaw to this side and crazy how it wasn’t rectified this summer.
 

clarkydaz

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I tell you what, Mctominay is not very good at defending. The myth that he's great defensively is because we only can notice when he shows up to defend, that's all he can do. Running headless chicken trying to defend doesn't mean you have great defensive work. Pogba has done more for us defensively against Aston Villa than Mctominay does.
i wasnt aware he was supposed to be good defensive, box to box is when he looks his best. Just lazy cliches as he is a big unit., pretty much a West Brom player
 

Borys

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I don't think they are to blame for recent results, in a team of so many star attacking players and good defence that is. But we'd need to have a manager with a plan what to do about midfield to drop them.