The McFred midfield duo

VictoriaRed

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Why isn't VDB getting a run out today? Matic, ugh.
 

Sandikan

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Why isn't VDB getting a run out today? Matic, ugh.
Either VDB is being left out as some kind of bizarre grudge from Ole, or VDB doesn't show he deserves to be in the team more than our other options.

Both are worrying options.
 

VidaRed

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I reckon matic and vdb would make a good partnership. But pogba might have to be benched.
 

NewYorkRed

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McTominay is awful. He really is, not good at literally anything.
 

Big Ben Foster

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Either VDB is being left out as some kind of bizarre grudge from Ole, or VDB doesn't show he deserves to be in the team more than our other options.

Both are worrying options.
Either scenario makes the decision to block his transfer in the summer baffling.
 

Sandikan

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Either scenario makes the decision to block his transfer in the summer baffling.
Completely.
Unless he thought it'd be like Fred who took a year to "settle", if you can can it that.

But Fred still played a lot more than VDB did in that year.
 

NZT-One

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Matic is actually playing well...
What? Didn't Leicester just ran through our midfield a couple of times? Isn't that on Matic as well? The guy is done. Bring him on for the last 10-15 minutes in a game you want to see out or you want some more control. Thats it, he's finished, there is absolutely no point in playing him anymore.
 

Abraxas

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I think we saw yet more evidence of why he comes back to these two no matter how bad their start to this season has been.

You simply can't do it with Pogba and Matic in this setup, not with that front 4 as well. There's no way near enough ability to get around the pitch and "earn the right to play" as Fergie would say.

We need to get back to McFred ASAP and pray the latters form improves. That's our only hope of getting points through this tough run.
 

bugmat

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If we keep playing two man midfields the McFred partnership (when both are fit) is our only hope. Playing your two slowest midfielders in there in Pogba & Matic isn't exactly great tactics either. But herein lies the problem. We shouldn't be playing two-man midfields.

We need to move away from this 4-2-4 Ole loves that sees ANY midfield we put out get overrun by anyone from League Two up to Serie A. Most teams don't play with 4 out and out attackers - there is no control. Today vs Leicester Pogba and matic might as well not exist apart from the constant free kicks they gave away.

Play 3 in midfield (no not Bruno as he isn't a proper CM) and drop one of the 4 attackers.
 

Cathy Ferguson

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If we keep playing two man midfields the McFred partnership (when both are fit) is our only hope. Playing your two slowest midfielders in there in Pogba & Matic isn't exactly great tactics either. But herein lies the problem. We shouldn't be playing two-man midfields.

We need to move away from this 4-2-4 Ole loves that sees ANY midfield we put out get overrun by anyone from League Two up to Serie A. Most teams don't play with 4 out and out attackers - there is no control. Today vs Leicester Pogba and matic might as well not exist apart from the constant free kicks they gave away.

Play 3 in midfield (no not Bruno as he isn't a proper CM) and drop one of the 4 attackers.
4-3-3 with Bruno as a false no 9?

McTominay - Matic - Pogba

Greenwood - Bruno - Rashford

Main issue would still be that we lack a good CDM.

I think our best line up is:

McFred

Greenwood - Bruno - Rashford

Cavani

At least all 6 players would work their socks off.
 

bugmat

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4-3-3 with Bruno as a false no 9?

McTominay - Matic - Pogba

Greenwood - Bruno - Rashford

Main issue would still be that we lack a good CDM.

I think our best line up is:

McFred

Greenwood - Bruno - Rashford

Cavani

At least all 6 players would work their socks off.
It would be the only issue though. Right now we have a ton including players not knowing what they are supposed to do.
 

charlenefan

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I was going to post that we need to go back to McFred but then I realised that was the midfield for the defeat against Villa and the draw against Everton so let's be honest whatever midfield we go with its shit at the moment
 

In Rainbows

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I was going to post that we need to go back to McFred but then I realised that was the midfield for the defeat against Villa and the draw against Everton so let's be honest whatever midfield we go with its shit at the moment
Exactly. I don't know how people on McFred's side aren't realizing this too. As if they haven't been part of crap performances and losses.
 

Litch

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Don't want to go with McFred because they have been the scapegoat far too often for the clubs problems, lets see what happens without them. Trust me if they had played today, it would have been all about them not Harry even though both him and Shaw have been shocking all season.
 

Litch

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Exactly. I don't know how people on McFred's side aren't realizing this too. As if they haven't been part of crap performances and losses.
They may have but people's view was the Teams crap performances were because of them........they werent there today? They might be shite but don't remember too many defeats like this. Today was shocking
 

sp_107

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Don't want to go with McFred because they have been the scapegoat far too often for the clubs problems, lets see what happens without them. Trust me if they had played today, it would have been all about them not Harry even though both him and Shaw have been shocking all season.
Looks like McFred is a better option among all optiosn we have now. that would give front 4 ----Rashford--Bruno---Greenwood---|Ronaldo freedom to roam aroind
 

Litch

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What I'm finding hilarious is if he hadn't played McFred as shite as they may be, we would probably have seen more of these results away from home. It's funny how 'all they do is run around' may actually allow those in front to have the freedom to take the plaudits. The irony is that's part of our problem, if you don't play McFred, those very same 'better players' are gonna have to do their own running around. Now we have poor Matic and Pogs, Bruno is chasing goals and not doing his share of 'running around in midfield ....' Like said, oh the irony.
 

::sonny::

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With a squad like this, full of lazy players you are forced to play with a lot of water carriers

But McFred offers very little defensively and in tackling with atrocious passing abilities and football knowledge

So they are useless in every area of the pitch

McT often plays as a CB with Scotland because McGinn and Billy Gilmour are better than him
 

zenith

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Like it or not but at this point McFred is our best midfield combination with bruno playing in front of them. Anything other than that and we look totally lost
 

AndySmith1990

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Fred plays to a decent standard for Brazil. Pep even wanted him so I refuse to believe he's as useless as he appears to be when in a United shirt.

We've seen this so many times with players we sign. They look great elsewhere but then come to United and look lost. We're the Bermuda triangle of football. Whether it's due to weak mentality and inability to handle pressure, or simply due to the abysmal manager and coaches we have I don't know. But I just don't believe our midfield is as bad as Young Boys, Southampton or Wolves; teams that easily outplayed us. Fred probably cost more than half the entire Young boys team for christ sake.

I think it's an easy scapegoat at the moment and a convenient narrative to absolve Solskjaer of some blame. But I don't buy it. Just watch Brentford to see what's capable from a group of players that aren't world class.
 

Amadaeus

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scapegoat. I believe After the Leceister game, under Ole, these two will be the first name on the team sheet. Their work ethic goes under appreciated. Under a more possession, attacking based manager, then we wouldn’t need two of these double pivot.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Like it or not but at this point McFred is our best midfield combination with bruno playing in front of them. Anything other than that and we look totally lost
100%.

Pogba is a luxury left forward as we don’t have better midfielders.

Only 3 of Bruno, Pogba, Ronnie, Cavani, Greenwood, Rashford, Martial and Sancho should start.

Fred and Scott should start. Matic is better than both but too fragile by all accounts.
 

laughtersassassin

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scapegoat. I believe After the Leceister game, under Ole, these two will be the first name on the team sheet. Their work ethic goes under appreciated. Under a more possession, attacking based manager, then we wouldn’t need two of these double pivot.
Mate we drawn and lost plenty of easy games with these two this season.

At this point no Midfield works. That's on the coaches

100%.

Pogba is a luxury left forward as we don’t have better midfielders.

Only 3 of Bruno, Pogba, Ronnie, Cavani, Greenwood, Rashford, Martial and Sancho should start.

Fred and Scott should start. Matic is better than both but too fragile by all accounts.
Again it didn't work versus Villa or Everton.....
 

Amadaeus

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Mate we drawn and lost plenty of easy games with these two this season.

At this point no Midfield works. That's on the coaches



Again it didn't work versus Villa or Everton.....
Our midfield looks better with them under Ole than without them. They add steel and energy, that supplement the likes of Bruno, Ronaldo, pogba and Sancho in the attack who lacks the right work ethic.
 

laughtersassassin

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Our midfield looks better with them under Ole than without them. They add steel and energy, that supplement the likes of Bruno, Ronaldo, pogba and Sancho in the attack who lacks the right work ethic.

I made a list of our season so far based on Midfield pair. There is limited data buts it's too early to say McFred is the best pair.

Also even if they are the best the pairing is very poor all the same. I suspect our issues more stem from coaching In all cases

McFred W2 D1 L1 - 50% Win rate
Win vs Leeds
Win vs West Ham
Losss Vs Villa
Draw Vs Everton

Fred Pogba W1 D0 L0 - 100% Win rate
Win Vs Wolves

Matic Pogba W1 D0 L0 - 50% Win rate
Win Vs Wolves
Loss Leicester

Pogba Sccott W1 D0 L0 - 100% Win Rate
Win Vs Villarreal

Matic Fred W0 D1 L0 - 0% Win Rate
Draw vs Southampton

Fred Donny W0 D0 L1 - 0% Win Rate
Loss vs Young Boys

Matic Donny W0 D0 L1 - 0% Win Rate
Loss Vs West Ham
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Again it didn't work versus Villa or Everton.....
We win more games with those two playing. I don’t think they’re the answer, but we have a coach that can’t set us up to win. We need those two.

A better coach takes 4 of Cavani, Sancho, Bruno, Lingard, Greenwood, Pogba, and makes them press the feck out of the opposition, allowing us to play Matic solo, and two full backs to fill in spaces.

Ole plays reactive transition football and we get our pants pulled down by better coaches. Routinely.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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I made a list of our season so far based on Midfield pair. There is limited data buts it's too early to say McFred is the best pair.

Also even if they are the best the pairing is very poor all the same. I suspect our issues more stem from coaching In all cases

McFred W2 D1 L1 - 50% Win rate
Win vs Leeds
Win vs West Ham
Losss Vs Villa
Draw Vs Everton

Fred Pogba W1 D0 L0 - 100% Win rate
Win Vs Wolves

Matic Pogba W1 D0 L0 - 50% Win rate
Win Vs Wolves
Loss Leicester

Pogba Sccott W1 D0 L0 - 100% Win Rate
Win Vs Villarreal

Matic Fred W0 D1 L0 - 0% Win Rate
Draw vs Southampton

Fred Donny W0 D0 L1 - 0% Win Rate
Loss vs Young Boys

Matic Donny W0 D0 L1 - 0% Win Rate
Loss Vs West Ham
Include last season mate, they were all there then.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Did you watch our last game? He looked like a retired 60 year old.
Did you? He was one of just 2 players to walk away with any credit. Matic and De Gea were our best players. Yes he was exposed but I don’t put that blame at his door.
 

laughtersassassin

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We win more games with those two playing. I don’t think they’re the answer, but we have a coach that can’t set us up to win. We need those two.

A better coach takes 4 of Cavani, Sancho, Bruno, Lingard, Greenwood, Pogba, and makes them press the feck out of the opposition, allowing us to play Matic solo, and two full backs to fill in spaces.

Ole plays reactive transition football and we get our pants pulled down by better coaches. Routinely.
That pair plays more than any others so that would be one reason we win more.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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You can do the data collection for that if you like.

Though what's happening this season is more relevant as we are playing so much worse regardless of what pair we play
That’s also not how stats work.

We now have a Ronaldo that doesn’t defend at all. Will obliterate any comparison.
 

VivaRonaldo85

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There’s a time and a place for this pair and until a cohesive attacking unit starts to be formed, this is the best of a poor bunch in a two man combination.