The media-pedalled notion that we should drop Ronaldo

[MalaysianRed7]

I wanted my first thread to be of a good topic when I signed up to the Caf, and I think this is it. Just reading articles and watching Sky pundits constantly blame Ronaldo for our failures has truly irritated me as it has many other United fans. I’d say the annoyance plateaued when Carragher said Ronaldo wouldn’t get in a team over Firmino and Mason (as much as I love him) on MNF.

For me, yes, there’s no doubt that Ronaldo doesn’t press. 2.7 pressures per 90 or something isn’t a good look on him. However, his pressing numbers have always been very low, and he is still scoring goals at a good rate, around 0.8 per 90 since his return. I think he is still one of the best players in the world at 36, so it’s down to the manager to get the best out of him. He is simply not a lone striker and never has been. He has scored 35+ goals per season for the last decade and more playing off a focal point who does the running for him, be it Rooney, Higuain, Benzema or Morata. We literally have the perfect man for the role now in Cavani, whose work ethic at 34 is admirable. That cross field sprint against Villarreal was probably the most inspirational moment of our season!

After you get the tactical bit that has helped him be so potent year after year out of the way, it’s simply down to getting players to create chances for him. With Pogba, Bruno and Shaw all part of our strongest 11, we should have no problem doing that, whether by playing through balls which the former two specialise in or exploiting his generational heading ability with Shaw’s crossing.

No matter what though, dropping one of the greatest players of all time and still one of the best now would be an absolutely awful decision. He is guaranteed goals, and has already proven so this season, particularly in the CL.

 

[moses]

We're so bad at the moment, everyone's place should be up for discussion. The media fixation on Ronaldo is a constant, regardless.

 

[RooneyLegend]

It's tough to say what we should do about the situation. There aree just some games he isn't suited to and in our set up using him out wide would be catastrophic. We can't play him with another striker because he isn't much of a passer and Bruno is the guy that plays with the other striker. We can't play him outwide in our current system because our wide players are basically wingers which means they have to really defend.

It's a tactical nightmare that I have very little hope that our brainstrust will be able to solve adequately.

As for him not playing at Pool, him vs Jota or Mane is the question and even at this age he wins that one. Carragher must give his head a wobble. Klopp and other coaches have clear pressing instructions that are easy to follow here it's a free for all. It's a mess really.

 

[MalaysianRed7]

We're so bad at the moment, everyone's place should be up for discussion. The media fixation on Ronaldo is a constant, regardless.

Of course, but aside from De Gea, surely Cristiano Ronaldo is the last person you even think of dropping? I look at what’s he done and what he did last year for a similarly average Juventus team, and I just think you do what you can to get the best out of him.

 

[Hammondo]

Cavani has been better for us.

 

[moses]

Of course, but aside from De Gea, surely Cristiano Ronaldo is the last person you even think of dropping? I look at what’s he done and what he did last year for a similarly average Juventus team, and I just think you do what you can to get the best out of him.

Not necessarily, a more fluid frontline without Ronaldo starting wouldn't be that controversial with the pool of attackers we have.

 

[estel_manutd]

Ronaldo is not that problem. Bruno is the issue. If we play with Bruno and a two-man central midfield against Spurs, we will lose again. Spurs will defend deep and hit us on the counter.

 

[bonothom]

All the media seem to forget United were shit towards the end of last season before Ronaldo came back. Anyone see the crap served up at the poxy Europa League Final. Or the shit performaces at home to Liverpool, Leicester and the dirge away at Leeds Utd last season. Anyone would think that this all started to happen after Ronaldo signed. United have been shit for the last 6 months and then before that at the start of last season. Ole got his new contract on the back of a mediocre run of form which was also the way he got his first contract. The people making decisions at this club reward crap performances and results with new contracts. A bit like the way they give mediocre players such as Perriera new contracts. They have no idea what they are doing.

 

[MalaysianRed7]

Not necessarily, a more fluid frontline without Ronaldo starting wouldn't be that controversial with the pool of attackers we have.

Maybe, but we had that fluid front line for two years before Ronaldo, and 1 and a half before Cavani. Ole has tried Marcus-Martial-Mason, Martial-Cavani-Marcus and Marcus-Cavani-Mason and Pogba-Cavani-Marcus. The football has been equally as tumescent. I suppose the common denominator is coaching, but Ronaldo is guaranteed goals.

You could obviously throw Sancho in there, but his form hasn’t exactly been blinding. He does need more chances though, which goes without saying.

 

[Red00012]

Cavani has been better for us.

Come back to me with the last time Cavani completed 90 mins for us.

 

[GledTheRed]

We're so bad at the moment, everyone's place should be up for discussion. The media fixation on Ronaldo is a constant, regardless.

Drop the guy who looks to have single handily qualified us from out CL group.

Cool logic journos!

 

[edgecutter]

Love the fact that shaw, Maguire, AWB and mctominay all avoid having their form discussed. I mean how does that happen when we can't keep a clean sheet?

 

[Abraxas]

In my opinion the whole Ronaldo thing is a complete red herring. It's just a very easy topic rather than having to get to the crux of the real problems which takes more effort and requires some deeper analysis. Basically the path of least resistance.

It's much easier because they see this correlation of Ronaldo returning, us having finished second and put this "evidence" together into a bad theory. Despite the fact the wider trends have been bad for a while, prior to the season even beginning.

Ronaldo has done exactly as expected. He's scored goals, he hasn't been bad by any means - they've been key goals. There are limitations to his play as there as with most players of that age but I'm afraid to pin too much on a guy that's done his primary job while we ship goal after soft goal, hand the ball to the opposition, fail to compete in transition etc is just ridiculous.

Ronaldo can be part of a very good side, he has always been that for his whole career up until the very point that he rejoined us. Nothing has suddenly changed. You have to get the most out of him and the team.

 

[LJJT]

We are a worse team with him in it. Buying him reverted back to the transfers based upon thinking by heart rather than head, lots won’t admit it but it’s true

 

[The Brown Bull]

Love the fact that shaw, Maguire, AWB and mctominay all avoid having their form discussed. I mean how does that happen when we can't keep a clean sheet?

What the fuq! All of the above are heavily criticized on here.

 

[FatTails]

What the fuq! All of the above are heavily criticized on here.

He means in the media, I think.

 

[sullydnl]

Blaming Ronaldo for our woes is stupid. Nearly all of the problems we have, we had before he arrived. At worst he exacerbated some of them but that's more down to our lack of a plan generally than anything he did wrong.

At the same time, we have to be real about how good this 36-year old poacher version of Ronaldo actually is as a total package. He's well past his peak at this point and shouldn't be viewed as undroppable. And a striker who can't press is an issue you have to think your way around tactically.

It may be that a new manager will adjust tactically to accommodate him. But it may also be that they decide he doesn't work in their system. And if it's the latter case, that's fine. The idea that there should be some onus on the manager to find a way to accomodate Ronaldo in the team is wrong. The manager's job is to make the team work, with or without Ronaldo.

 

[edgecutter]

What the fuq! All of the above are heavily criticized on here.

By the fans yes, but not the media, if they weren't British they would be lambasted just like Ronaldo.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

The media can keep saying negative things about him. We all know what happens when they do that.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We are a worse team with him in it. Buying him reverted back to the transfers based upon thinking by heart rather than head, lots won’t admit it but it’s true

When exactly were we a better team? We’ve been exactly this team for 3 years.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Meh. It's been done.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-love-ronaldo-thread.119018/

 

[Foxbatt]

If you have three forwards then you simply cannot have three strikers. This is what United have and this is one of the reasons why our frontline has no fluidity to it. Our team is too unbalanced even before Ronaldo came. Not it is showing more. If you put the ball in the right areas Ronaldo will score.

 

[CloneMC16]

If you have three forwards then you simply cannot have three strikers. This is what United have and this is one of the reasons why our frontline has no fluidity to it. Our team is too unbalanced even before Ronaldo came. Not it is showing more. If you put the ball in the right areas Ronaldo will score.

Liverpool play three strikers/wing forwards and they play pretty good football. I don't think this is the truth. You can play three forwards if they put in more defensive work than what we get from ours.

 

[MalaysianRed7]

Liverpool play three strikers/wing forwards and they play pretty good football. I don't think this is the truth. You can play three forwards if they put in more defensive work than what we get from ours.

In fairness to the other poster, Firmino is absolutely nothing like Ronaldo. Firmino is probably the only striker in the league who can score 0 goals in 15 games or whatever (this actually happened when they won the league) and still not be dropped. His role is to press and create. Ronaldo should not be dropped at all, but I would like to see a Rashford-Ronaldo-Sancho front line.

 

[edcunited1878]

Liverpool play three strikers/wing forwards and they play pretty good football. I don't think this is the truth. You can play three forwards if they put in more defensive work than what we get from ours.

Three strikers are different from 3 forwards if you think about it. Strikers, especially a singular striker, are more reliant on service and less of a creative force for others. Salah and Mane are wide forwards. Firmino is a center forward who is happy and good to facilitate for wide forwards either side of him. Salah can do everything and his finishing and creativity for himself and others is levels above what United have, especially on consistency.

Playing three across the front line, you need a mix of finishers, suppliers, a combo of both, and then off the ball work. Mason and Marcus are scorers first. Marcus is a vertical forward threat who stretches lines via his vertical runs towards goals. Then you have Ronaldo who is now an in the box goal scorer who is extremely reliant on service from anywhere.

 

[evil_geko]

Cavani has been better for us.

This, Cavani before Ronaldo, every time.

 

[moses]

In fairness to the other poster, Firmino is absolutely nothing like Ronaldo. Firmino is probably the only striker in the league who can score 0 goals in 15 games or whatever (this actually happened when they won the league) and still not be dropped. His role is to press and create. Ronaldo should not be dropped at all, but I would like to see a Rashford-Ronaldo-Sancho front line.

The position that Bruno likes to receive and play the ball is often only a few yards behind the space Ronaldo occupies. So a lot more movement and coaching would be needed to make this work, especially if you play two holders to cover for Bruno's advanced position. I'm sure someone could make it work on the training ground but I've seen no signs so far.

 

[Reapersoul20]

It's a load of horseshite that you'd want to be blind and easily-led to fall for.

 

[LJJT]

When exactly were we a better team? We’ve been exactly this team for 3 years.

Come on now. Be honest with yourself or don’t bother trying to make a point,

 

[MalaysianRed7]

The position that Bruno likes to receive and play the ball is often only a few yards behind the space Ronaldo occupies. So a lot more movement and coaching would be needed to make this work, especially if you play two holders to cover for Bruno's advanced position. I'm sure someone could make it work on the training ground but I've seen no signs so far.

Fair enough, and I think step one to this problem is to bin that awful 4-2-4 we’ve tried out this season. The pressing is even more uncoordinated than usual and there’s absolutely zero backup from the midfield as they are only 2 men marking either 3 or 4. Basically, two rabbits in the headlights. This would be a problem whether Ronaldo plays, Pogba plays etc.

 

[moses]

It's a load of horseshite that you'd want to be blind and easily-led to fall for.

Surely nobody is undroppable in a search for better performance when we are so spectacularly misfiring? While Ronaldo isn't necessarily the cause of our problems, I think every possibility of getting a better tune out of the squad should be considered.

 

[moses]

Fair enough, and I think step one to this problem is to bin that awful 4-2-4 we’ve tried out this season. The pressing is even more uncoordinated than usual and there’s absolutely zero backup from the midfield as they are only 2 men marking either 3 or 4. Basically, two rabbits in the headlights. This would be a problem whether Ronaldo plays, Pogba plays etc.

Yes, we have looked very poorly set up at times.

 

[CloneMC16]

In fairness to the other poster, Firmino is absolutely nothing like Ronaldo. Firmino is probably the only striker in the league who can score 0 goals in 15 games or whatever (this actually happened when they won the league) and still not be dropped. His role is to press and create. Ronaldo should not be dropped at all, but I would like to see a Rashford-Ronaldo-Sancho front line.

I completely agree that they're nothing alike. He offers other important attributes and that's why it works. Even when he's not playing, they have Jota who scores a bit more and works just as hard. We're playing 3 players (Ronaldo, Rashford, and Greenwood) that offer little to nothing defensively. I still find it hard to blame Ronaldo, because these problems predate him. Adding him to the team does make our lack of press worse, but he'll score if we're able to create for him (which we're also unable to do).

I don't expect Ronaldo to start pressing at his age. We need to get more defensively out of Rashford, Greenwood, and Sancho.

Three strikers are different from 3 forwards if you think about it. Strikers, especially a singular striker, are more reliant on service and less of a creative force for others. Salah and Mane are wide forwards. Firmino is a center forward who is happy and good to facilitate for wide forwards either side of him. Salah can do everything and his finishing and creativity for himself and others is levels above what United have, especially on consistency.

Playing three across the front line, you need a mix of finishers, suppliers, a combo of both, and then off the ball work. Mason and Marcus are scorers first. Marcus is a vertical forward threat who stretches lines via his vertical runs towards goals. Then you have Ronaldo who is now an in the box goal scorer who is extremely reliant on service from anywhere.

Salah and Mane are pretty similar to Rashford. They're all wing forwards. Obviously Salah is way better than both, but they occupy similar positions on the field. Greenwood has been playing as a wing forward for us for two years. He might naturally be a striker, but he's been on the wing for us since he was promoted to the first team. All four of these players are cut inside and shoot first type players. The main difference is Firmino. We don't have a player like him in the team. He is still a striker that takes up a position high up the field.

I agree fully with your second paragraph. If Sancho starts to perform, him coming into the starting XI will help with the creativity, but we're still lacking off the ball work. I still refuse to blame everything on Ronaldo when these problems have been here way before he signed.

 

[NoLogo]

There is no way we should drop him but we need to accommodate our tactics a bit for the team to play to his strength and not exaggerate his weakness, like we did against Liverpool. Now why should we do this for one player? It's simple, we played on the counter before, so it's not something that totally doesn't work for us. Secondly he is still one of the best goalscorers in the world, even at 36 and let's not forget he is the best paid footballer on the planet, you just don't sit a football player like him on the bench simply because he doesn't press and the coaches all of a sudden decide we need to be a pressing side, something we haven't shown much aptitude at in the last couple of season either.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Come on now. Be honest with yourself or don’t bother trying to make a point,

Yeah it’s me that needs to be honest, we’ve looked a cracking side before Ronaldo ruined it all.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I just don't understand the obsession some people have with pressing. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Ronaldo has won a ton of titles without pressing. And I think the thing that I hate the most about pressing is that our two biggest rivals do it. Since when do we want to model our game after Liverpool and City? It disgusts me that so many on here look at them as the mecca of football. We can play entertaining football without pressing....

 

[RedRonaldo]

If we are to drop Ronaldo based on recent issues, I think we also have to drop 10 of our other first team players, which would of course make us fielding mostly our reserves:

Maguire - Been very shaky this season. Slow down everything, cost us so many goals with his stupid defending

Shaw -Shaky in defence, has been showing poor understanding with his teammates at times, which cost us goals

AWB - Very bad defensive positioning, loss possession easily when supporting attack, which often gifted the opponents chances of counter attack

Mctominay - very bad in passing, no longer reliable in defence with the McFred partnership, totally being outplayed in midfield

Fred - very bad in passing, no longer reliable in defence with the McFred partnership, totally being outplayed in midfield

Pogba - losing possession easily, slow down our build up play, often being outplayed in midfield with his lack of urgency

Bruno - his constant bombarding forward has been creating a large gap in midfield, and contribute to our midfield being outnumbered and outplayed. Also playing with Ronaldo may have affects his mentality bit, as he has been playing in a way which somehow limits his game abit

Greenwood - Not pressing enough, too selfish at times, not consistent in shooting and has been very wasteful, and not passing to his teammates despite playing winger role. 4 goals in 12 games is ok return (even considering having wasted few chances per game), but he is not undroppable.

Sancho - Not productive, looking totally lost on the pitch at times, contribute nothing in our attack. Has been easily biggest flop in PL so far.

Matic - has already loss his legs, not aggressive enough to win midfield battle, can only last 60 mins

Martial - only 1 goals in 7 games, lazy up front with poor movement, he is just not up to our standard



The only players left we should play based on recent merits:

Cavani - has been working very hard at pressing in CF position, also present good aerial threats, only downside is, he hasn't score a single goal this season yet

Lingard - we should play him, he is in amazing form this season

VDB - I thought he is good, even with very limited appearance. Our best player in terms of build up play, looks willing to work hard too

Rashford - although he is sometimes very rash and wasteful, he is still our fastest player, and has been a constant threat on the left. Made quite some impact with 2 goals in 3 games since his return.

Diallo - I actually think he look very promising last season, would be good option on our right wing actually, dribbles well and has an eye for a pass

Varane - our best defender so far this season, we have to play him when he is back from his injury

 

[tenpoless]

Its only because the situation we are in right now. If we won all those winnable games and is currently 1st or very close behind, everyone would say nothing about Ronaldo. If we had only Cavani and we are this bad, they would still be talking about the aging Cavani and how we should have signed Ronaldo to raise up our level.

 

[glazed]

People are groping like blind snails towards the bleeding obvious. The teams that win stuff play a high press. That wasn't true in the past. it may not be true in the future. Some days it isn't true now. But by and large it's how it rolls.

Now the Glazers aren't that bothered about winning stuff. They only care that they look like they are trying.

But Ronaldo in the team means we can never achieve a high press. But as we are not even trying to do that, it seems stupid to blame him for everything. We knew what we were buying.

 

[He'sRaldo]

@OP I disagree. It's obvious Ronaldo's holding us back.

Tbh I miss the scintillating football we used to play. And remember how we used to press so well, and keep clean sheet after clean sheet? We need to drop him and get back to that asap.