Britain was castrating homosexuals less than a lifetime ago. It's ironic people are complaining about corruption in other countries when just the other week it was revealed how taxpayer's money was flooding into the hands of extremists through the lobbying group Adam Smith International. This whole White Man's Burden attitude reeks of unfounded moral grandiosity, poverty of insight, and zero sense of history.
The men behind Man city: If you thought Qatar was a problem, wait till you get a load of Abu Dhabi
- Thread starter Maradona10
- Start date
Oh right, my bad, foreign labourers don't need money or human rights, feck em!
So basically, the Emirates do very well by their people if we exclude the slaves.
Correction: heterosexual men who aren’t guest workers have a decent life.
IIRC BBC did a documentary on Qatar workers and it was horrible watch.
I’m not really sure hypocrisy is the right term for it.
I guess in principle, holidaying to Dubai isn’t an endorsement to the human rights atrocities, nor is being a city fan.
But are you proud of how you are financed?
Any success you endure are you happy to celebrate given the underlying acts that help propel it, also the continuing silence of any write up that focuses on the atrocities surely must be cause for concern when speaking on curruption also?
This has long been known, City are a tool to create positive news for the regime, to distract from any potential bad news and to serve as an 'in' to further gain political ground in this country. MCFC will find themselves dropped like a stone the minute it goes tits up, which could be anything from the owners finding themselves on the wrong side of a Yacht for too long or the government being annihilated in a war, tons of scenarios. As much as I dislike City, this could happen to any club.
Contrary to British belief, Britain is not actually the entire west. Also, I'm not saying the west are perfect now or have always been perfect, just that human rights wise standards in western countries are generally higher at the moment. As for White man's burden, I'm not proposing to invade the UAE, I'm not George Bush you know
Since when have human rights actually truly mattered when money was involved ?
Exactly, Citizens. Of the 2.6 million people living in Qatar, only 300k have the qatari citizenship. I guess most of the (non-western) expats don't live that nice.
Very true, some of the acts committed under British empirical rule, some less than 50/60 years ago are abhorrent and simply cannot be defended at all.
I guess the difference is that the British state isn’t funding any particular individual private sports business.
So yes it’s somewhat hypocritical and ignorant that some seem to be under the impression that this kind of atrocity is limited to the Arab states.
It’s not really that relevant in this discussion is it?
The sad truth.
My point was that many of us are indirectly endorsing what goes on in those countries. Dubai was pretty much built on the back of migrant workers earning a pittance in the process. I've worked in oil and gas for 27 of the last 28 years and some of our customers are based in that part of the world so you could argue I've been endorsing it for far longer than Mansour has owned City. I also support Lancashire County Cricket Club who just happen to be sponsored by Emirates so I'm up to my neck in this endorsing business.
Are you proud that United receives sponsorship money from the national airline of Russia and previously the national airline of Turkey, given that both countries have a human rights record every bit as dubious as Abu Dhabi has?
Last edited:
Oil exports so foreign consumers indirectly
Unless the national airlines of both countries are actively engaged with abusing human rights, with evidence then I don’t see how I could argue against it?
However, sponsorship money and being financed are two different things.
United could drop that particular sponsor and still post the most profits in the world.
Your clubs finances are seeped in this, and once again - is that something you are proud of and will continue to celebrate?
Oil is sourced from all over the world, I don’t think there’s a way to find out the origin of any oil you buy is there?
Congrats on one of the worst post I've read on here.
Well done, you got called out for being wrong and are now moving the goalposts.
The “slaves” aren’t their people though. I’m being pedantic here but it’s like a German citizen living in America. You as a German are not considered America’s “people”, until you at least obtain permanent residency or citizenship.
Now, if you say “The Emirates don’t pay foreign labourers well enough and they have to work in pathetically poor, slave-like conditions”, then you may have a point.
The point is that you take money directly from the ruling bodies of those countries so it's not really any different. Simply saying that United could drop the sponsor is irrelevant because they haven't, and it's clear you don't have an issue with it, yet have an issue with City for some odd reason. And let's not forget about the sweat shop story going back some years with footballs made in India for peanuts finding their way into United's souvenir shop (it's not just United who do that of course, but it's another example of how we're all indirectly complicit in this kind of thing). Funny how you didn't comment on my post about the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - maybe you should find some F1 fans to have a pop at.
I think there's a way to know the countries who buy UAE's oil or Qatar's gas.
Nobody is having a pop at you
I asked a question which you seemed to turn around and try and ask me as if the two situations are even remotely similar?
I’ll put it to you like this, I wasn’t aware of any human rights atrocities committed by the Russian airline company, show me some and I will admit that it’s wrong and United shouldn’t be sponsored by them.
I’ve never been to, nor show any desire to visit Dubai.
And if I could find a way to find out where the original of my diesel is sourced I would actively not buy from any Arab states or South American states for that matter - however I intend on my next car to be a Tesla and I actively drive approx 3000 miles a year, so I’m hardly contributing to this.
These other issues you’re bringing up are pointless because they are not relevant to this particular discussion, and only serve to change the narrative.
Does that make you feel better?
Are you comfortable to answer my questions now?
I think 9% of the world's oil comes from Abu Dhabi so there's a fair chance that plenty of it ends up here. Particularly now that the oil industry is on it's arse in the UK with nearly 70,000 jobs being lost in Aberdeen alone over the past few years as a result of countries in that part of the world churning it out at such a rate - and for a fraction of the cost - that there's now a huge surplus.
Typical Arabs in power in these countries. Not a single one has anything positive about them, just a bunch of greedy bastards looking to one up their rivals in any way possible, regardless of method and only caring about their own interests.
Funny to see folk arguing against it, claiming indirect involvement and western countries being no better. What's wrong is wrong, think thread has achieved its point.
Funny to see folk arguing against it, claiming indirect involvement and western countries being no better. What's wrong is wrong, think thread has achieved its point.
Last edited:
I don't know much about the labor camps and other things, but that highlighted thing is absolutely not true
Qatar is 2nd ranked in GDP per capita and 27th ranked when it comes to median GDP per capita, that itself should tell you the huge income inequality. I am assuming you are using 99.999% number for the effect, but even discounting for that, that is no where close to being correct.
P.S: I know people working there and basis their feedback, can safely say, a vast income inequality exists.
P.P.S: I also find West's moral high ground amusing, but using middle east example (or their wealth) to fight that back is not the right thing, in my opinion
I've already answered your questions. I've already stated that some of the stuff that goes on over there isn't palatable but I'm not sure what you personally expect me to do about it. I'm guessing it's such an issue to you that you'll shortly be marching on Manchester Town Hall protesting about Manchester City Council being complicit in all this? The Russian airline company you speak of isn't a private company - it's the national airline of the state of Russia so there's a direct link right there to any human rights issues linked to the Russian government.
What a horrible and blinkered generalisation. Completely oblivious to the history, complexity and Western involvement in destabilising the region over many decades.
On the specific article about Citys owners though. It concerns me that they have invested so heavily in PR. It seems to correlate with the overly positive UK media coverage they have been getting with no context (or criticism) being given to the amount of money spent over recent years or its grubby origins.
Last edited:
I’m actively involved in a couple of organisations that raise awareness of human rights atrocities throughout the world, were focused primarily on Africa because that’s where most of us are from - however I wouldn’t be opposed to focusing on the Arab states either.
I don’t really buy the argument that nothing can be done on these issues long term, corruption shouldn’t be tolerated even if you are benefiting from it.
Extremly simplistic and stupid thing to say. Not every arab country is the same, the people living are very different from the ones who govern them etc etc...
Most of the people in Qatar and the UAE aren't actually citizens, they're very protective of who they give citizenship and a passport too. Pretty much everyone else is considered a migrant worker with very few rights. So yes, the 'citizens' of these countries are incredibly wealthy and live very privileged lives, but there are several underclasses of migrant workers, some of which are treated as relative slaves.
I actually know a bit about this, my girlfriend is an Arab Muslim who lived in Abu Dhabi for about 12 years and spent a lot of time in Dubai as well. Her family still live there, so she goes back from time to time, although as little as she can help it. Admittedly I've never been myself, but I consider her a pretty good source.
She has a lot of great memories; the standard of living was great, the restaurants are world class, Dubai is a beautiful modern city and she made a lot of good friends, not to mention the fact she was incredibly well paid for even the most basic of admin jobs.
However, she has an endless supply of horror stories. There are the obvious ones that we in the West stereotypically relate to Islamic countries; the conservative/religious oppression and sexism towards women. She did suffer under this unfortunately, but the UAE is actually fairly moderate, so as a women she had a fair amount of independence and it rarely affected her day to day life. She could more or less go about her business like she could here, except maybe she had to be a bit more careful about how she behaved in public or who she spoke to.
But it does go deeper than that. UAE citizens have a lot of power, she has friends who were deported because they were in a rush and failed to hold a door open for a UAE woman, or because in a fit of road rage they flipped the finger to a UAE national. Then there were the bosses (typically UAE nationals as they can basically walk into any job they want, and are immune to getting sacked) who sexually harassed her. Of course that's not exclusive to the middle-east at all, but if she'd tried to report it she wouldn't have just lost her job, she would have been kicked out of the country, away from her family and friends, forever. She might even have been arrested for being 'immoral' if the boss decided to take it that far. Then there's all the friends and acquaintances who were the victims of rape and sexual assault, but couldn't even think about reporting it to the police as they'd be arrested as well for having an 'extramarital affair'.
Then there's the hired help, the desperate souls they ship in from Malaysia, India etc. to do their dirty work for them. While most of them are just poorly paid and neglected, she insists there are those who are beaten and tortured by their UAE 'masters'. Apparently many of them go missing and are just never seen again...there was even a local Sheikh who apparently liked to take them out into the desert and drag them about chained to his car until they died. Something i found unbelievable, but she thinks is entirely plausible after living there. This of course never makes it into the media as it's owned and controlled by the ruling elite.
There's more, but I think you get the general idea. She got out of there as soon as she was old enough, although even then she needed her dad's approval to legally leave the country as she is technically his 'property' as an unmarried woman. She's also spent a lot of time in a few other Middle-Eastern countries, namely Saudia Arabia and Jordan, doesn't have anything nice to say about them either.
Don't get me wrong, she hates it here too. She recognises we suffer under a very different kind of oppression, but she feels safe at least, and knows her rights can't be entirely taken away without her at least being able to put up a fight if it came to it. She also lived in the USA till she was 10 and isn't fond of their government and their own brand of hypocrisy, although that might be because her parents are originally from Palestine, Trump's announcement last week didn't go down well in her household.
Basically, if you think the ruler of a country like the UAE should pass any fit and proper person test then you're mad. It doesn't matter who is better, what culture or beliefs are more acceptable, what is fair or unfair. It's still wrong.
But while they keep pumping money into our country, I don't see that changing.
I find it more disgusting how Manchester City Council are in bed with these guys. I know due to my line of work as stated in the article that half the building projects going up in Manchester are funded by these guys.
Odd considering this week is the anniversary of when Manchester itself fought to abolish slavery through its own anti slavery movement.
The council is rife though with pro berts so its not a suprise.
Odd considering this week is the anniversary of when Manchester itself fought to abolish slavery through its own anti slavery movement.
The council is rife though with pro berts so its not a suprise.
I'm not sure it's so much as corruption as certain behaviours that many of us find morally wrong. I'm not trying to deflect things here but there's a lot of this shit going on in the world. I'd argue that City's previous owner Thaksin Shinawatra - aka Dr Death - was a more unsavoury owner than the current one but yeah, that doesn't make some of the things going down in Abu Dhabi right. The thing is, with regards to Abu Dhabi (and the rest of the UAE), City is only a very small cog in this supposed PR wheel. Mansour's government has conducted far bigger business deals in the Western world than buying City - for example, you do know that the Abu Dhabi Investment Council owns 90% of the iconic Chrysler building in New York?
Reading that, it seems Guardiola needs room on his lapel for about another 6,000 justice ribbons.
Proberts or pro-berts. Kudos Werder, great neologism!
Also it kind of proves a long standing point i have made- to become like us they have sold their soul. The amount of City fans i heard bleat on about Utd's money in the past but now the shoe is on the other foot, anything for success though .
Think you are unaware of the exact meaning of citizen here. Its a poor reply.
I understand that in terms of percentage of ownership, City are a minor form - however the club is the face and is being propped up as such and that can’t be taken away either.
I’m not too knowledgeable of everything that they’re involved in, so I don’t want to come across as ignorant on the topic, but Im interested in educating myself on the topic also which I will.
Like I said, if more people cared about these topics then change would occur.
The default narrative is to insist that nothing can be done or worse still, not to care at all.
I’m personally not inclined that way.
Great post. This exactly. According to Wikipedia, in 2013 the total UAE population was 9.2 million of which only 1.4 million are Emirati citizens. The remaining 7.8 million are expats. These expats are the ones who are (not everyone mind you, but the vast majority) who are treated poorly.
It always makes me chuckle when people bring out GDP per capita (especially in the case of middle eastern oil-rich countries) in their arguments as the vast majority of these calculations only take into account the actual citizens of the country. Not the people on whose backs the infrastructure there was built.
Presume most of the issues are around the millions of foreign migrant workers that are modern day slaves, rather than 'citizens'
Correct.