He deserves the shot.
The MMA thread
- Thread starter Fortitude
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
155 is still huge without both
Aldo got a shot off the back of a loss. UFC operates to the whim of Dana White.
Not to the casuals. I doubt your average casual knows the the feck Oliviera, Gaethje, Ferguson, Chandler etc are
Yeah exactly. The reason Dana was talking about Chandlers title fight after one win is cos its the one who has the most viewers....obviously he'd rather that was vs Conor.
Dustin probably will get a bit of attention now due to KOing McGregor ala Holm vs Ronds as well but even then no Khabib and especially McGregor hurts that division
Khabib wasn't big until Conor either, no on cared about him. Once those 155 mix it up there will be interest, especially with Chandler in the mix.
Khabib was already quite big in certain regions but I agree, he became huge after slapping McGregor around. Same for Diaz and hopefully Poirier. But with that said, casuals will still probably not draw the same as when McGregor is on the card. Do you honestly think Poirier vs Chucky Olives, which should be a fantastic (and the deserved) fight will do gangbusters? I doubt it. These remaining LWs will do decent numbers for a non-McGregor card but it won't be THAT huge, I hundred percent believe that.
Virtually nothing without McGregor is huge but they'll still do damn well and it'll be the most exciting division, but McGregor is sticking around anyway and I think that'll benefit 155 cards he's not even part of as they're his rivals.
Agreed, they will do well but won't be as big as McGregor fights or things like Jones v DC and things like that.
These guys at the top don't have the crossover appeal of a McGregor/Lesnar or the bitter rivalry of Jones and DC.
They can do ok, but won't be that big. I can't see what combination of these top guys draws that high.
This is why Dana is currently on suicide watch.
Don't think DC vs Jones even did that good PPV did it?
I might be wrong but I think considering the time, it was decent. I'm talking the first bout by the way.
Interesting. I agree with him actually. I think checking on the dude, a pat on the shoulder, that’s great and good sportsmanship. Hugging is basically celebrating the victory....with the guy you’ve just beaten. I agree it seems a bit wrong
Seriously, someone saying Cowboy is an easy fight for anyone is kind of ridiculous. Cowboy might not be what he once was but to suggest he is an easy out for anyone is crazy.
Cowboy has been terrible for some time. He has a 4-8 record since 2017, so its not exactly an accomplishment for Conor to beat him.
On the run up to that, beat Alaquainta, lose to Tony Ferguson, Lose to Gaethje then fought Connor. Not like he is fighting or losing to nobodies then. Opinions obviously differ but to me that’s down right just disrespectful not only to one of the best competitors in the sport ever but to Connor as well.
Fair enough if they handed him Mike Perry or something but it’s Cowboy, Cowboy had all the tools to beat Connor in that fight. Connor just shut him down and rocked him before Cowboy even had a chance to get going.
If you've watched Cowboy over the years, its not hard to see that his recent form is pretty poor compared to what he once was. He's now basically being added to cards for name recognition that gives cards a touch more credibility for users to turn their TVs on.
I'm sorry but Cowboy isn't elite level. Not for a while.
He beats most midcard guys but loses to the best in the division.
Was on a poor run of form.
Chokes in the big fights.
The three above points highlighted further as his age is catching up to him.
Starts slow (McGregor starts fast).
Stylistically perfect for McGregor.
That fight was to get McGregor a high ranked and named opponent who he has the absolute best shot of beating and that's exactly what happened.
From the top guys left in the division, Poirier on paper seems the next best stylistic matchup for McGregor... He stands and strikes a lot. Had been beaten by McGregor before. Takes punishment.
Dana just forgot that Dustin has the attribute that McGregor doesn't... Heart and determination.
He beats most midcard guys but loses to the best in the division.
Was on a poor run of form.
Chokes in the big fights.
The three above points highlighted further as his age is catching up to him.
Starts slow (McGregor starts fast).
Stylistically perfect for McGregor.
That fight was to get McGregor a high ranked and named opponent who he has the absolute best shot of beating and that's exactly what happened.
From the top guys left in the division, Poirier on paper seems the next best stylistic matchup for McGregor... He stands and strikes a lot. Had been beaten by McGregor before. Takes punishment.
Dana just forgot that Dustin has the attribute that McGregor doesn't... Heart and determination.
I agree with the posters above, Cowboys hasn't been elite since maybe 2016. He has been fun to watch up until 2019 but has fallen a little deeper since.
Number 2 did 850k apparently which isn't a bad number probably better than anyone except Conor currently active in the UFC would do I think...maybe Masvidal at a push.
I don't know if I imagined it but to me it seemed like McGregor liked athleticism from the begin. He is a great technician and pleasing to the eyes as a fighter but against someone like Poirier, he seemed to be able to hit him but not make as much damage as he used to. As he turned into someone that will need to rely more on volume?
Pretty sure Lesnar, Nunes and Masivdal all did higher. Jones Vs Adesanya is probably one of next BIG fights that could perhaps be made for PPV outside 155. A few other tasty matchups but I'd imagine that would be one with the big numbers.
Lesnar did but he's not active at all. Nunes has the lowest ever doesn't she?!?! And agree re Masvidal.
Either way 850k is a very good number though either way.
Nunes Vs Tate is top 10 ever. But yes outside of those few names and cards there isn't really anyone stepping up to those levels still active.
Haha come on we all know that wasn't cos of Nunes and Tate though!!
Poirier admitted in the post fight presser that Conor had him hurt in the first and could've won if he'd pushed it and capitalised but he didn't and the rest is history. I don't think it's Conor's lack of power or precision that cost him, it was just coming up against a more well rounded fighter with a game plan that Conor didn't react to, those leg kicks were the killer.
I'd love to see Khabib and Oliveira go at it, Oliveira offers something very few in that division do with his ground game and considering many were eager to see Ferguson because of that threat from his back and how far above him Oliveira showed himself to be I can't help but feel it would be Khabib's hardest stylistic match-up from the current contenders. Doesn't look likely anytime soon though.
The point isn't about whether he hurt him but whether he would have hurt him more in the past.
Well you asked if he would turn into someone that needed to rely on volume and I guess my response was "No, I don't think he will, he's still well capable of hurting and putting away people with a select few shots".
I think if anything Poirier is just more resilient as he is now compared to their first fight so the damage might be the same but it doesn't have the same outcome.
Haha. The whole card was stacked but they got that headline spot, the record stands.
I said rely "more" on volume and I compared how he would hurt people in the past compared to know hence the "as much as he used to", you somehow ignored key words along the way. But anyway I seem to understand that you don't think that he changed athletically which answers my question.
I didn't "ignore" anything, I obviously interpreted what you wrote slightly off, my apologies I guess as it seemed to get your back up.
No problem, at the end you gave me the perspective that I was looking for.
True! And she got the Ronda fight after that which did more I think.
People will look back at her years from now baffled how she did 2 1million plus PPVs then lost 900k buyers in her next 2!
The difficulty in answering this is that Conor is no longer the fighter he was and doesn't work angles or pick shots via worked openings like he used to; not only did he hit hard in the past, but his timing and exposing of the chin (often having people walk on to his shots) were as big, or bigger assets than the power that would come loaded into what he was landing.
Fighting Mayweather is simultaneously the best and worst thing that happened to him as a fighter, because 'boxer Conor' - which he has backed himself as since - has fallen into the trap he used to lambast people he fought for - over reliant on too few things and belief he can just bomb people out whilst ignoring what's coming his way - all the elusiveness and darting in and out, gone. Conor is not a great boxer, and he doesn't set up or land his shots like a great boxer would and he's actually reduced his power in this way - the power and accuracy he used to land with was coming from a karate base and it's a different way to land.
Old Conor would have picked his shots better and had Poirier on the end of full extensions, which generate more power in themselves on top of having him come on to shots rather than him simply going in there quite flat-flooted with no torque thinking he can just knock him out however he likes. He still has some power, but he's far from optimising it like he did in his actual fighting style.
With the way he's lived since the Mayweather fight, he probably can't fight like he used to anyway, so maybe it's not a choice but a necessity.
The signs were there since the old man in the pub took his best shot and carried on drinking like it's something that happens to him every Friday night
Well you expressed my thought better than I could with one small difference. I can't put my finger on it but he looked less explosive, to me it seemed that his technique was as good but he was physically slower not to an extreme point but just enough to see him land shots but not as well as he used to.
Edit: Even when taking into account the damaged leg.
The way he used to fight is exhausting, requiring high reflexes, smarts to make the angles and then the explosion (from legs to core, right through to the arms) to capitalise. Conor has got it into his head he can walk people down, rely on his power and just bomb them out now. That is literally the arena of the likes of Poirier and Gaethje, certainly not his domain or how he made the name he has for himself.
It would suggest he's going to work on the heavy bags and focusing more on volume than perfect moments to land outstanding shots. It's a different mindset and training regime that for sure relies less on being outright explosive and more on letting the hammers do their job once you do land.
Using yourself as bait to open the opponent up before slipping the shot or evading them entirely is reliant on your muscles being on point and ready to go at the opportune moment - walking them down and bombing with little to no regard for what's coming your way is definitely a different training camp. Conor doesn't turn with his punches in 'boxer mode,' he just throws them, hard; 'Karate Conor' uses his whole body in his punch, which obviously generates a great deal of power allied to having his opponent most probably walking onto what's thrown; it's going to double the output force.
Personally, I would think his partying and substance abuse have put paid to the kind of athlete he used to be, plus, fancying himself as a boxer and truly believing it's the way forward is going to alter the foundations. It's bizarre because it's a 180 from what he was when coming up and making a name for himself.
In my opinion, his generative force and speed purely in terms of boxing, isn't outstanding because he doesn't throw or move as a boxer would (watch his feet throughout this fight, for example), whilst, as a karateka, he was pretty much perfect, which is understandable given he is one and very green as the other. He still hurt Justin and could have won the fight.
I'm going a bit off topic here: I think he did look slower, but I think a good portion of that is down to his technique as a boxer, but also his notion he could walk Justin down and just out-bomb him.
Beginning of the end!
Yeah I fully agree with this - give the man time to process his thoughts and deal with the disappointment like he says.
I'm a big fan of Chandler as well, he's been top-drawer entertainment in Bellator for a while now so good to see a wider audience being exposed to that. Superb debut against Hooker that has established him as a big player in the division immediately.
Wil be interesting to see who his next fight is - Dana said Gaethje will probably fight Oliveira next so I'm assuming the plan is the winner of that vs Poirier for the interim belt. If that is the case, I'd love to see Ferguson-Chandler, that could be a strong FOTY candidate.
I think Dana hinted at Chandler v. Poirier. I'm hoping that's not the case...