The MMA thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Woodley must be over of the biggest falls from the top of MMA to being faceplanted by Jake fecking Paul 
At some point these jokers will have to understand that they are fighting someone that trains seriously and is a legit amateur boxer. When you see the lack of basic technique from some of his opponents you wonder if they realize that it's fairly dangerous to take him lightly.
A lot of these MMA guys are poor boxers. McGregor was embarrassingly bad against Mayweather. Look at Woodly’s head and footwork in that clip, completely static. Once he dropped his hands he was a sitting duck. I’d actually be interested in Paul vs Tommy Fury. Fury can actually box but has little power and isn’t that good. Paul obviously has some pop but Fury is naturally about the same size as Paul, unlike these MMA guys. It would be hilarious if Paul beat Fury.
Which UFC fighters would you think have a real chance in boxing?
Woodley is flat footed, not ready to move or hit, his guard is softer than marshmallow and he is nonchalantly moving toward his opponents power hand. It's ridiculous, particularly when he was running his mouth.
It depends what level you mean. None of them would be able to win a world title. A fighter is a fighter so if they trained seriously for a year they could make some in roads but the top guys in boxing have been working on the one skill for so long it would be hard for them ever to reach that level.
At his size, none. Paul is an actual boxer, he has good size and decent technique. At this point, I think that only good amateur boxers and low level professional boxers are a match.
Let's put it like this: which fighter has a chance again Jake Paul? Putting weight aside of course.
Ahh fair play.
Stand up is at an all time low in UFC so none imo. Jake has trained enough in elite gyms to be above opponents who have never boxed in their life with a 6 week camp behind them
come on people; Woodley was mince meat and was said so even before the first fight. Anderson Silva would kill this kid, for example. Paul's got some absolutely awful traits that could get him seriously damaged if he calls out the wrong MMA guys - he and his team are very smart in who they do and do not call out.
As for Woodley... what an embarrassment this whole saga has been for him. He had rumours of insertion clauses preventing him 'going to work' in the first fight, so he goes one further and gets absolutely starched in the second. The money is great for him in the short-term, but mid and longer, this has cost him a lot of work and credibility and it'll level out to having been a terrible choice in the future as he's going to be a walking meme for years to come.
His best bet is to hope Paul moves on, keeps his name out of his mouth so his profile and this whole calamity can be forgotten in the shortest time possible. But Woodley's potential earning have just nosedived across so many ventures and avenues: commentary, exhibition bouts, radio, podcasts, 'music', TV. His image or any kind of bad ass aura he would have had has just been eviscerated. I cannot imagine the shame he feels today on reflection. He's going to have to show a high level of mental fortitude to not slump into a period of melancholy off the back of this.
Dana might want to think about permitting a real stand up fighter from UFC going in there and shutting Paul up before this gets out of hand. UFC looking like a joke by association even if it is washed up has-been wrestlers Paul has dispatched.
As for Woodley... what an embarrassment this whole saga has been for him. He had rumours of insertion clauses preventing him 'going to work' in the first fight, so he goes one further and gets absolutely starched in the second. The money is great for him in the short-term, but mid and longer, this has cost him a lot of work and credibility and it'll level out to having been a terrible choice in the future as he's going to be a walking meme for years to come.
His best bet is to hope Paul moves on, keeps his name out of his mouth so his profile and this whole calamity can be forgotten in the shortest time possible. But Woodley's potential earning have just nosedived across so many ventures and avenues: commentary, exhibition bouts, radio, podcasts, 'music', TV. His image or any kind of bad ass aura he would have had has just been eviscerated. I cannot imagine the shame he feels today on reflection. He's going to have to show a high level of mental fortitude to not slump into a period of melancholy off the back of this.
Dana might want to think about permitting a real stand up fighter from UFC going in there and shutting Paul up before this gets out of hand. UFC looking like a joke by association even if it is washed up has-been wrestlers Paul has dispatched.
To me it's silly to think that an MMA fighter would dominate a boxer in boxing. The same way it would be silly to claim that a wrestler would be dominated by an MMA fighter in wrestling even excellent MMA wrestlers aren't as good as current actual wrestlers.
What about the likes of Khabib or Cejudo?
Well he's probably going to want to avoid the UFC middleweights currently in their prime. He probably wouldn't fancy taking on Adesanya for example.
Currently he's hand-picking welterweight wrestlers who are past their prime.
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It also applies to them, as long as they train and exclusively compete like other wrestlers they may keep up but they can't actually do that. Wrestling in particular is extremely competitive, it's difficult to stay at the top for specialists let alone none specialists. In submission grappling and BJJ they would have a fair chance, some MMA fighters are fulltime grapplers, iirc Gibert Burns is one of them.
Last night, this shit had me in stitches.
Imagine he gets the finish using this technique.
Imagine he gets the finish using this technique.
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'MMA Fighter' is too broad a term as what Paul's been doing is going up against wrestlers who have very basic stand-up that is useless when not backed up with the threat of their shooting and takedowns.
Woodley's whole stance is square on because he's spent a career intimidating opponents with a single booming right hand hidden in between his low stance that threatens the takedown. When you apply that, his 'boxing' has an element of threat to it, but if you remove it, combined with him being notoriously gun shy and unable to throw in combinations, and you have a sitting duck with flat feet and no mental awareness of how dangerous that is in a boxing contest.
At least if you have a stand-up fighter in against an actual boxer, his stance, spatial awareness and depth/range perception give him at least a foundation, even if he isn't a boxer. Paul's technique, footwork and recovery from shocks is really bad - any fighter who is used to evading shots and firing back is going to have plenty of opportunities to lay Paul clean out, but that's why they're avoiding these guys, despite calling out Masvidal etc. I highly doubt Paul intends to make that fight.
I bet he'd make the McGregor one, however, as if that goes through, he'd make something stupid like 9 figures off of it, which makes it a no-brainer.
McGregor and Masvidal are poor boxers in the realm of Boxing, their techniques are poor, their footwork and guards are sloppy and slow compared to actual boxers. Jake Paul isn't a particularly good boxer but he is a boxer and we are also talking about a cruiserweight, McGregor and Masvidal would be sparked by Paul. If you want a somewhat fair fight you will have to bring one of the heaviest light heavyweight or one of the lightest heavyweight and even then I would bet on Paul in a boxing bout.
Also lets be clear Masvidal is a poor boxer, it looks nice among mixed martial artists but it's telegraphed, flat footed, unbalanced and unsophisticated boxing.
What about fighters like O'Malley or Cruz? Would their stand up do well in boxing?
I wasn't lining them up as optimal choices; in fact, the first, and easiest name that came to mind that would lay Paul clean out was Silva, as I stated in my initial post. He's old and not even in the UFC anymore, but he has the attributes I mentioned in the post you're replying to.
I don't think you need to do a who's who of stand-up fighters active to put paid to Paul in a boxing contest.
That’s brilliant. The opponent must have been thinking; what the feck is going on???
No. O'Malley is way too open for boxing, his guard is nonexistent and doesn't move well enough either to compensate, the danger with him is also the variety of strikes. Cruz(Dominick?) is actually an interesting profile, he kind of moves like Lomachenko but his striking isn't comparable, the head speed is slower, it's unlikely that he can fight at that intensity for as many boxing rounds as a boxer and boxer can take repeated blows to the core in a way that few other fighters can.
The last one is one of the most surprising thing about the UFC, not enough fighters focus on destroying the core of their opponent early in the fight even though many of them do not protect it at all.
Petr Yan would do well in boxing and is to my mind the best boxer in the ufc unless I’m forgetting someone very obvious.
Good shout.
I'm sure Ronda and her coach disagrees
I don't think so, his weight class is a big no. Those top featherweights are ridiculously fast and they are powerful. it's not a fair comparison because it's the top of the food chain but no MMA fighters compete with that at featherweight:
I don’t want to put him with Loma etc but objectively he’s got good boxing skills. But I mean he’s no professional boxer or I guess he would have been. Im just saying he’s probably, well in my opinion; the best UFC has to offer in terms of boxing. Can’t think of anyone else to be honest. Max maybe but then he a good striker but I wouldn’t say he’s great all round as he gets touched up quite a lot.
I’ve no idea who you mean? Surely not Ronda Rousey — she can’t box her way out of a paper bag.
Unless it’s a joke that I totally missed.
It was a joke. Probably centered around that video of her Shadow boxing.I’ve no idea who you mean? Surely not Ronda Rousey — she can’t box her way out of a paper bag.
Unless it’s a joke that I totally missed.
Oh, now I remember. I’m stupid.
The point was about a fight against a boxer(I assumed professional but could be wrong) and my claim is that none of the MMA fighters would be a match against good amateur boxers or low level professional boxers. Boxing is one of those sports where the gaps are pretty big and the pool fairly deep in the sense that outside of professional boxers, elite amateur boxers are a different level to anything MMA has to offer.
Yan had a good amateur record though and has been recognised as a master of sport in boxing in Russia.
Elite amateur boxing is also quite different to professional boxing and there seems to be a gap, although I can’t put my finger on what it is and why that is when you see some Olympians whom don’t make it in professional boxing.
I’ve no idea who you mean? Surely not Ronda Rousey — she can’t box her way out of a paper bag.
Unless it’s a joke that I totally missed.
Yeah, it was obviously a jokeOh, now I remember. I’m stupid.
She and her coach thinking she should box against Holly Holm.
Yan is a good boxer, there is no question about it but again think about his division and go down the ranks in featherweights. Looking at videos of his boxing, he is too slow, professional boxers and elite amateurs are in a different category of speed particularly in lower weight classes and his footwork is also too slow. In MMA it's great because no one is really used to that but in boxing, he would be the prey.
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I’m not saying he’s on par with professional boxers but he’d beat Paul or rather someone of Paul’s ability in his weight class. I’m under no illusions in the gap between good boxers with good amateur record (yan) to elite boxers with incredible amateur record (Loma).
I didn’t read the conversation to be honest so it’s my fault. Thought I’d offer my two pence on whom was good at boxing in UFC and I was judging only by mma standards and not by professional boxing.