The most promising side post SAF | And also some stats

[jackal&hyde]

Didn't take long for the club to kill all positivity. A debate for another day, but I still blame Woodward for yesterday's loss - the negativity has clearly affected the players' mentality.

What hit me yesterday was that as a club, we've turned into Arsenal. We play for 4th place, put together some pretty football at times, have no leaders and implode mentally at the first sign of trouble. We're second to 50/50s, naive in the dark arts, and are more likely to concede more when we go down than come back. As Troy Deeney would put it, we lack cojones.

Ironically, a boost of the good old Jose siege mentality would have been nice. We seemed to be feeling sorry for ourselves instead. Heads dropping too quickly.

We needed Sancho, a top CB and a better striker backup than this version of Cavani. We needed to let more deadwood go. This WAS the most promising side since SAF, but instead of building on it, we've managed to pull it down a notch while everyone else strengthened.

I don't know when our next window of opportunity will come again.

This was definitely a low and the ability to bounce back will be proven in the next few games. We did it last year, can we do it again or will we implode Pochettino style? I think we will be looking back at this time the same way we did at the relegation threads.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Didn't take long for the club to kill all positivity. A debate for another day, but I still blame Woodward for yesterday's loss - the negativity has clearly affected the players' mentality.

What hit me yesterday was that as a club, we've turned into Arsenal. We play for 4th place, put together some pretty football at times, have no leaders and implode mentally at the first sign of trouble. We're second to 50/50s, naive in the dark arts, and are more likely to concede more when we go down than come back. As Troy Deeney would put it, we lack cojones.

Ironically, a boost of the good old Jose siege mentality would have been nice. We seemed to be feeling sorry for ourselves instead. Heads dropping too quickly.

We needed Sancho, a top CB and a better striker backup than this version of Cavani. We needed to let more deadwood go. This WAS the most promising side since SAF, but instead of building on it, we've managed to pull it down a notch while everyone else strengthened.

I don't know when our next window of opportunity will come again.

I don't necessarily disagree with some of your points, but how are you going to absolve Ole and the coaching staff for our putrid performances?

 

[pacifictheme]

I don't necessarily disagree with some of your points, but how are you going to absolve Ole and the coaching staff for our putrid performances?

Or the players. We can't blame a poor start on no signings.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Or the players. We can't blame a poor start on no signings.

Exactly. And we did sign Van De Beek. Someone Ole refuses to start ahead of Pogba(who continues to play like a pub player).

 

[CG1010]

Didn't take long for the club to kill all positivity. A debate for another day, but I still blame Woodward for yesterday's loss - the negativity has clearly affected the players' mentality.

What hit me yesterday was that as a club, we've turned into Arsenal. We play for 4th place, put together some pretty football at times, have no leaders and implode mentally at the first sign of trouble. We're second to 50/50s, naive in the dark arts, and are more likely to concede more when we go down than come back. As Troy Deeney would put it, we lack cojones.

Ironically, a boost of the good old Jose siege mentality would have been nice. We seemed to be feeling sorry for ourselves instead. Heads dropping too quickly.

We needed Sancho, a top CB and a better striker backup than this version of Cavani. We needed to let more deadwood go. This WAS the most promising side since SAF, but instead of building on it, we've managed to pull it down a notch while everyone else strengthened.

I don't know when our next window of opportunity will come again.

I generally find that I agree with you on most things, and this post included. As someone said yesterday, the board gives the feeling of indifference and contentment at where we are. This drastically reduces motivation for players to give their extra. But no doubt Ole is also at fault for not being able to address this properly. Fergie would have still created a positive environment in the dressing room whatever happening outside.

 

[pacifictheme]

Exactly. And we did sign Van De Beek. Someone Ole refuses to start ahead of Pogba(who continues to play like a pub player).

Yeah that is annoying me. I'm certainly not against pogba, but he had covid and is clearly off it. I think vdb could offer more right now but he's not being played. Very weird. And he's looked quite good when he has played.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

I don't necessarily disagree with some of your points, but how are you going to absolve Ole and the coaching staff for our putrid performances?

I'm not absolving them of blame completely, I am saying it's more on Woodward. I personally see it as the different ways we could have reacted after the red card.

Till the red card, I think the players were to blame. For some reason, Maguire and Bailly collectively turned in the worst mistakes of the season. Maguire has looked shaky in this season with Greece still on his mind and this was Bailly's first start so you can understand how he was off the pace. Fine, a goal and a man behind, usually we still have a chance. Weather the storm, gather yourself. But then Martial was naive enough to get himself sent off after falling prey to some fine playacting.

And it is after the red card that everyone lost their heads and gave in to the negativity. Yesteryear United teams would be raring to retaliate - we'd be rougher, faster to the 50-50s, winning second balls, running and pressing and harrying like madmen desperate to equalize. The United we saw yesterday simply gave up after Martial was sent off. They lost confidence, panicked, looked nervous and their minds were elsewhere. This is where you see the lack of leadership, this is when you see them unable to believe what a terrible position they're in and starting to feel sorry for themselves. Spurs are getting in our faces, in the meanwhile, and we have no answer. This is where you see Ole realising he can't do much to change the game either - his best players are all on the pitch and the bench is weak bar VDB, and the lack of options hits home.

The attitude of the players not mentally very strong themselves is usually a trickle down effect from the management. It affects them when the club messes up opportunity after opportunity to strengthen in a transfer window, to give them better teammates to link up with or motivation to fight for their places. It affects them when the club doesn't display signs of ambition. It affects them when they don't have proper preseason and every game feels like catch up. It affects them when their captain is still thinking of Greece and the ensuing media coverage, or when their star midfielder is clearly struggling after Covid ( he was good in the second half of last season, before revisionism kicks in). It affects them when they're still jaded from the efforts of last season (look at OP for how they were overplayed) and realize they have to go through the same strain all over again. And it affects them when they realize that even if they jog instead of run, there will be no consequences because there is no one to challenge them and they'll start the next game nonetheless.

If we had signed our new recruits early, strengthened in the key positions, and turned over our deadwood to show signs of ambition, I bet the reaction from the players would have been different after the red. Spurs pre-Bale-announcement were a vastly different outfit from post. Off the pitch sentiment clearly motivates players mentally, and in the absence of fans in the stadium and established, experienced leaders on the pitch, they really needed the extra motivation to keep going this season. Bar Matic and De Gea, this is relatively a very young team. You also have to realize that Ole is pretty new to management at this level as well, he looked beaten in the presser the day before itself, eating his own words on players he had deemed not good enough, scrambling to excuse his boss' ineptitude. He's shown what he can do in multiple bursts of good form, but he lacks consistency and maturity. Replacing him is not the answer - we'll go through the same mistakes all over again.

This team will pick themselves up eventually - we'll have a good run of games at some point, obviously. But this collapse was very Arsenal-esque, and it trickles down from the top - every single time. The board should have backed Jose after we came second, and they should have backed Ole after he came third. In both cases - manager and squad seem disillusioned at the lack of ambition shown from higher up - and it shows in the lack of extra effort on the pitch which makes a difference at this level.