He testified that Trump refused an interview for over a year.
The Mueller Report
- Thread starter Raoul
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Did he subpoena Trump? Or is that not confirmed?
Just seen Nunes stuck up a giant photo of Boris with a russian agent and questioned whether he could be compromised 
Mueller said he mad the calculation that Trump would continually delay through legal maneuvers, so he eventually gave up.
What Mueller is saying is that his hands were tied.
He could not go beyond the parameters that were given.
He could not go beyond the parameters that were given.
In the second part (House Intel) Mueller explains that they tried for over a year in negotiations to get to interview Trump but he always refused. If they had subpoenaed him he would have fought it through the courts for another year or so which would have meant delaying the report for all this time and in the end they decided that the report really needed to come out. Same applies to Don jr. He also refused to testify.
Nunes is desperately trying to implicate Anybody except Trump and the GOP. He didn’t get far with Clinton and the Steele Dossier today so he’s deflecting to anyone and everyone. It’s a bit embarrassing watching him behave in this way but what more can you expect from someone who sues a parody cow on Twitter!Just seen Nunes stuck up a giant photo of Boris with a russian agent and questioned whether he could be compromised
JFF
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TRUMP IS A FARCE OF NATURE!
Yep, him. I guess knowing he has portuguese origins makes me feel extra angry whenever I hear him speak.
No she's cool, has a brain, hates Trump....he's her step nephew.
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Vapid.
Presumably the Dems will now want to get Mueller's staff in to testify since Mueller himself seemed so unfamiliar with the detail of his own report.
Hope they're done with Mueller and his team now. Everything that needs to be said is already out there. I'd be more interested in Weisselberg or McGahn.
They should let it die at this stage. Unite the party to defeat Trump, and then open the investigations when he isn't president anymore.
I would kind of like to hear that Zebley speak, he looked like a frickin razor all the way through that yesterday.
I thought I'd let this lie a little until things calmed down a bit, because the previous discussions seemed pretty fruitless and the tone seemed to be one of "See! We were right all along". And really I don't see what the main contributors to this thread see, I think it's very much coloured by agendas.
This seems like an appropriate end to the Muller report so if we're ever going to have a constructive conversation it'll be now. What do you think has happened that should've changed my opinion significantly since this? Genuinely curious, I've no interest in the point scoring.
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That guy has been friendzoned 5 times.
4, 2, 6, 3, 5, 1
So, was it a complete trainwreck? Or did he implicate Trump? Both are true depending on what media you read. This presidency is like Schrodingers fecking cat. Surely they cannot both be true?!
The facts were put out there and it's clear that Mueller wouldn't bring charges because of DOJ opinion of not indicting a sitting president, couldn't answer everything fully because he had a lot of limitation on what he was allowed to say, and put the ball into Congress' court to impeach.
Of course, Republicans are trying to spin it (as they usually do) as you can't obstruct a crime that wasn't there (false), that Mueller's "performance" means it's a bunch of lies (false, and performance means absolutely dick in terms of facts presented), and that it's still an exoneration (false).
Another thing that annoys me about this is the idea that going with an impeachment process will divide the nation. Like yeah, because not impeaching Trump is TOTALLY gonna bring the nation together. They need to get real. This nation was divided before Trump and has been exacerbated because of Trump and it's not coming back together. It's one general identity battling another general identity and only one is coming out on top, but not without a lot more tension and problems. We made our fecking bed. Anyone in the House who has political fear over impeachment is a spineless coward who don't deserve to represent the people.
Your 3 is the 1
I agree with the republicans when they call this a Witchhunt. Its more of a political vengeance than anything. Had Trump not won in 2016 we would have heard nothing about collusion. And also if the Dems win in 2020, they will not proceed on any charges against him. Its just that they are very bitter about the loss. Mind you, I am not saying Trump is innocent.
I take it from that post that you have neither seen or read any of the Mueller report.
Considering all the evidence they’ve found of his, his campaign and his associates criminal behaviour, would it be better if all that was not investigated?
Best if foreign governments were allowed to interfere with elections?
My Question is that would they have carried out these investigations had he not won?. I don't think so.
I take it from your post that you didn't read my post one bit. I specifically said he is not innocent.
You specifically said “I’m not saying he is innocent”.
There is more than enough evidence of deliberate Russian interference in the election and countless examples of US people, connected in some way to the campaign, taking money off Russians and assisting them with this “interference”. They have breached FARA regulations and their behaviour has activated RICO investigations. If you add to that the money-laundering which will soon come out surely you can hardly expect anyone to believe this is a Witch Hunt.
These investigations have not happened as a result of political vengeance but of criminal and treasonous behaviour on the part of certain individuals.
Would they have had a special counsel? Probably not considering that events following Trump's victory are what triggered the calls for an investigation like Michael Flynn discussing lifting sanctions while Obama was still president and lifelong Republican Jeff Sessions being appointed AG and subsequently lying about contact with the Russians and then recusing himself, Trump then sacking lifelong Republican James Comey to stop an existing investigation into Russian election interference efforts which lead to lifelong Republican Deputy AG (acting AG on matters relating to Russia) to appoint lifelong Republican Robert Mueller as special counsel.
Democrats were about as integral to the storyline and outcome as Indiana Jones was in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
To quote my original post, do you think these investigations would have carried on had he not won?. And also do you think he will be charged for obstruction if he isn't reelected in 2020.
I agree they are all complete crooks and mind you, this is not the first time Russians have tried to influence elections.
Edit: I am not saying that there should not have been investigations. All I am saying is that I believe that these wouldn't have been the case had Trump not won and that's why I feel that it's out of bitterness.
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But even if he had lost, there were still going to be a case for collusion/Interference right?
If the ball was on the other court, I am very sure that the republicans would have done the same(meaning, they would have called for counsel/investigations), I am not denying that and would have been probably more ruthless than the dems have gone in now.
Edit: I am not saying that there should not have been investigations. All I am saying is that I believe that these wouldn't have been the case had Trump not won and that's why I feel that it's out of bitterness.
The collusion/interference was already under FMI investigation. It's the events mentioned that triggered the SCO and it's the SCO investigation that has brought a lot of this into public knowledge. All of this has been carried out by Trump's own DOJ. It's only because he got Barr in that his own DOJ hasn't lead him towards impeachment.
Yes, I think they would have carried on but with much less drama. The FBI and CI would still have gone about their business as quietly and unobtrusively as they have been doing, but if Trump had not won the election the world wouldn’t have been subject to his incessant raging tweets accusing the Dems of a Witch Hunt numerous times a week.
The Dems haven’t instigated these investigations, it’s the Intelligence community that picked up these crimes and it’s the Intelligence community that are continuing with the investigations. Their interest and focus is on the safety and security of the USA, which is as it should be because that is their area of responsibility.
The Dems have nothing to do with any ongoing investigations so it makes no sense to say that it is political vengeance. That’s purely a Trump blame game distraction.
Difficult to say whether he will be charged after he leaves office, he may decide to come to some sort of agreement, but my personal opinion is that he will be charged with a fair few crimes. Some of his family will for sure.
The investigation started Long before Trump became POTUS, when no one expected him to win. It only went to Mueller when Trump sacked the man who was investigating Russia's encroachment into the election.
I like the rumour (which I just made up) that Mueller was a Republican plant but Trump was too stupid to realise it.
The investigation that started before the elections were to look into Interference, there was nothing political about it, to me.
The investigations that started following the firing of Comey were for obstruction, again, are pretty clear that it was obvious and he may even have been found guilty if not for his "special privilege".
I am thinking, again its just my opinion, that I feel the move from Interference-Collusion was politically motivated. I am not saying it was only because of the "13 angry democrats" that it happened. I also don't believe that Democrats had no say in this. And this is what I think would have happened if Trump lost. They would have published report saying that Russians did interfere in the elections and the likes of Manafort, Stone and Papadopulous would not even been looked at, possibly.
The crux of it is that Trump is at the center of everything regards to this investigation. It will be hard to know whether all roads lead to Trump or whether the investigations were only held in those directions.By saying these you may feel, that I am buying into this bullshit of Trumps agenda. But I seriously am not.
They had Popadopulus in for questioning long before the election even took place.
When you look at the Investigation and it’s origins it’s important to bear in mind that there is a whole world of intelligence out there. Each country in the world has it’s own “intelligence” and this is active 24/7. Some of these agencies are exceptionally good and friendly nations share intelligence if they feel there is a need.
I’ll take Flynn as an example. If he flies to say Turkey and meets with A and other intel agencies are watching A (he is on their radar for some reason) then they will check out who A is meeting...Flynn in this case. They will record that. If say Flynn then met another contact on their radar alarm bells would start to sound. Chatter amongst other international agencies may then result in them monitoring Flynn from the moment he lands in their country. The web of contacts grows overtime and agencies share and communicate. The US is part of FVEY, along with Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the U.K. These 5 share intelligence. Other countries (allies) also share intel with each of the FVEY.
General Flynn of course would then be found to be connected to the US and Trump and therefore watched closely. If any of these countries picked up another US and Trump contact.....say Manafort.....meeting with say person B, also on their radar, events would start to become more serious. Manafort’s travels and contacts could be watched more closely. The US also monitors foreign agents in their country. Their meetings and contacts can be tracked. All of this work is going on behind the scenes and unknown to the general public. But people can be being watched even if they are not aware of it.
It’s highly likely that intel agencies were noticing “suspicious” meetings long before Trump and his campaign staff won the election. None of that of course is politically motivated but it is where collusion is highly likely to be occurring. Collusion is a mild form of conspiracy I suppose but you can see how it is formed, essentially from the interpersonal relationships some of the players have with foreign agents and each other. (It only takes two people working together to indicate conspiracy).
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