The murder of Sarah Everard | Couzens sentenced to a whole-life order

Pexbo

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Let’s not use this claim of systematic failing from the former MET chief to tar the rest of the MET by suggesting that there might be systematic fails in the MET
 

jojojo

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Just out of interest what sort of sexualised behaviour/crimes do you think come between exposure and first instance of Rape and then Murder? I've obviously not given it much thought myself.
At a guess, there will have been other incidents. Harassment or inappropriate conduct towards female colleagues? Bullying or abuse of prisoners? Beyond the work environment? Who knows what his conduct towards his family was like, or how he acted socially.

People who abuse a position of authority don't generally switch it on and off at will. The suggestion that he'd been moved from work that required daily conduct with people he could exercise power over does suggest that "misgivings" had been flagged. Which should have made investigations into things like indecent exposure all the more intense - but that isn't what seems to have happened. If direct witness complaints from outsiders got glossed over, I do question what else he got away with.
 

BusbyMalone

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Dunno, he looks like he’s actually bricking it there, and scrambling for a story like a little kid… reminded me more of Alan Partridge and the traffic cone than a psychopathic monster… which is scarier if anything
Yeah, the psychopath comment was a more general comment about him and his crime, as opposed to anything we see in this vid.

But yeah - you are right. More "normal" than psychopathic here. The story he concocts would be almost comical if the context wasn't so grim.
 

oates

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At a guess, there will have been other incidents. Harassment or inappropriate conduct towards female colleagues? Bullying or abuse of prisoners? Beyond the work environment? Who knows what his conduct towards his family was like, or how he acted socially.

People who abuse a position of authority don't generally switch it on and off at will. The suggestion that he'd been moved from work that required daily conduct with people he could exercise power over does suggest that "misgivings" had been flagged. Which should have made investigations into things like indecent exposure all the more intense - but that isn't what seems to have happened. If direct witness complaints from outsiders got glossed over, I do question what else he got away with.
I think the very least we're saying is that if the signs were there his colleagues and superiors were doing a good impersonation of the Vatican, not all being a bent or dangerous copper but closing ranks is just as bad as being that bent or dangerous copper. The very least they've done is allow a murderer and rapist to develop. The institutionalisation of the Police Forces is complete and although we say they can't all be like that I can't see how they aren't all aware of some degree even if it is just not being expected to pay for a coffee and now of course we've direct evidence of much worse. How we can expect women let alone minority groups to trust them doesn't seem possible. Another pointless Inquiry on the way.
 
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11101

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As all the guests both left and right agreed on politics live this morning, the government and police force cannot regain public trust through PR this time, there needs to be structural and procedural change for women (and men) to feel safe and protected again. That trust has been broken.

So I’m interested in what structural or/and procedural changes you would suggest which can regain this confidence?
Focus on not recruiting people like him, and having procedures in place that he's stopped long before it gets to this point.

You can't tell the public they should refuse a police officer's commands until a second one arrives.
 

Cloud7

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If there was any justice he would be put among the general population of prisoners for the rest of his life. A life sentence alone isn’t enough, because he’ll be insulated to an extent.
 
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The most disturbing institutional thing is that 1) He wiped his phone moments before they arrived (possible tipped off)

2) There were officers who spoke positively about him at sentencing (not actually heard what’s been said could be lies to spread further division )

Not getting the overall hate for the met police. No institution is perfect and all should strive to improve. However compared to most over countries I’d say the met is police is pretty good. This one apple shouldn’t be used to judge the entire force. This is one of the few countries in the world where he does that and gets caught first time (think it’s his first time, but won’t be surprised if he ends up like Levi Belfield)

Also I think the whole life tariff is very deserved but based on the crappy sentencing system in the U.K. it will probably get reduced on appeal. You have double murderers, with a sex motive, doing 30-38 minimum terms. An appeal lawyer will argue him getting a whole life tariff was based on him abusing police powers is and due to the publicity of the case.
 

esmufc07

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Also I think the whole life tariff is very deserved but based on the crappy sentencing system in the U.K. it will probably get reduced on appeal. You have double murderers, with a sex motive, doing 30-38 minimum terms. An appeal lawyer will argue him getting a whole life tariff was based on him abusing police powers is and due to the publicity of the case.
I could be wrong but as he pled guilty I don’t think he can appeal?
 

acnumber9

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You can't tell the public they should refuse a police officer's commands until a second one arrives.
Maybe it’s because I’m from Northern Ireland but it seems bonkers that there wouldn’t be two police officers together at all times anyway. Would never happen here.
 

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Weirdly, I remember having the thought during the lockdowns that the fact going to a friend’s house is a crime gives the Police the opportunity to abuse their power. This is an incredibly tragic case.
 

Rado_N

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Focus on not recruiting people like him, and having procedures in place that he's stopped long before it gets to this point.

You can't tell the public they should refuse a police officer's commands until a second one arrives.
That first paragraph is utterly meaningless and will achieve absolute nothing as a “response”.

As for the second paragraph; why not?
 

11101

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That first paragraph is utterly meaningless and will achieve absolute nothing as a “response”.

As for the second paragraph; why not?
Because next time there is a crime in progress, which unlike this particular incident will be in about the next 30 seconds, we can't have the police sitting there watching whilst waiting for a second officer to arrive.

Honestly, did i really need to explain that to you?
 

MadMike

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Because next time there is a crime in progress, which unlike this particular incident will be in about the next 30 seconds, we can't have the police sitting there watching whilst waiting for a second officer to arrive.

Honestly, did i really need to explain that to you?
Don't officers already work in pairs? If they're not, then that's a simple change to make along with letting people know that a lone officer can't arrest them and put them in an unmarked car.
 

11101

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Don't officers already work in pairs? If they're not, then that's a simple change to make along with letting people know that a lone officer can't arrest them and put them in an unmarked car.
Well that's what I thought, but I'm not police and I haven't lived in the UK in a long time. I was going by what somebody else posted.
 

McGrathsipan

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The Death Penalty should be brought back for him.
Now he is going to live at the tax payer cost for years.
Dirt
 

dannyrhinos89

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The Death Penalty should be brought back for him.
Now he is going to live at the tax payer cost for years.
Dirt

yeah go down to the nearest docks and get a thick rope, just hang him and be done with it.

it’s so annoying, he will be in his own cell, he will be fed well, he will likely get a tv and other various privileges. Plus he will likely be protected because he’s an ex copper and the nature of his crimes. I don't think he will be put in with violent offenders as he will be a marked man, he will likely end up with the nonces.
 

Penna

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He's 48 now. On the slim chance his whole-life order was successfully appealed and he was given a chance of parole, there's no way he'd get less than 30-40 years minimum term.

On that basis there's no point him appealing, because whatever minimum term he got he'd die before he had a chance of parole. People generally don't make extreme old age in prison, particularly ex-coppers with a rape and murder conviction.
 

McGrathsipan

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yeah go down to the nearest docks and get a thick rope, just hang him and be done with it.

it’s so annoying, he will be in his own cell, he will be fed well, he will likely get a tv and other various privileges. Plus he will likely be protected because he’s an ex copper and the nature of his crimes. I don't think he will be put in with violent offenders as he will be a marked man, he will likely end up with the nonces.
I keep thinking about his poor wife and kids. They did nothing to deserve this
 

Pexbo

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He's 48 now. On the slim chance his whole-life order was successfully appealed and he was given a chance of parole, there's no way he'd get less than 30-40 years minimum term.

On that basis there's no point him appealing, because whatever minimum term he got he'd die before he had a chance of parole. People generally don't make extreme old age in prison, particularly ex-coppers with a rape and murder conviction.
I expect him to appeal. I think people like him, in his situation generally use the appeal process to give them A. some element of control in their life and B. some element of purpose, something to focus on in their otherwise miserable and pointless life.
 

Ekkie Thump

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Has his wife been cleared? I thought initially she was suspected of helping him cover his tracks?
In the judges sentencing remarks I think he referred to them as blameless.

Edit: " You have utterly betrayed your family. Your wife and children, who on all the evidence, are entirely blameless will have to live with the ignominy of your dreadful crimes for the rest of their lives " (Pg 8 paragraph 23)

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Wayne-Couzens-Sentencing-Remarks.pdf
 

Sara125

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The OP labelled all Police Officers as "...corrupt bastards who harass innocent people and abuse their powers to do so."

There are currently about 135k police officer ranks in the UK. Are you implying that each and every one of them are "exactly like him"?
I don’t care for your #NotAll-ism, especially when I didn’t say every single one. Next time you say ‘City fans do xyz’ or ‘Liverpool fans do xyz’ should a city or pool fan on the caf fly into your mentions to tell you that not all of them do said thing?
 

Sara125

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@Pexbo beat me to it but I think your outrage might better be directed at the Met Police. This statement below is not in any way acceptable for starters


He was a police officer. He was able to do what he did precisely because he was a police officer. But worst of all it seems he built up to doing this because the institution around him turned a blind eye to crimes he'd committed previously.
Couldn’t put it better myself. Seen a lot of ‘no true Scotsman’ (not just from the guy being interviewed) and in this case he LITERALLY was able to do what he did because he was a policeman.
 

diarm

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They should have the right to refuse to go anywhere until a second officer arrives on the scene.
Not only this, but it appears it's time the whole idea of a Police Identification badge is brought into the 21st century. My staff are all on a clock in app, where they can start their shift once inside the geo location and then clock out again before they leave. While they're in, the screen looks green and when they've clocked out, it goes red on their phones.

We do it for payroll, but I'm sure creating a similar piece of software would be simple enough, to show that a police officer is on duty and carrying out the duties they are supposed to be. It could also provide a geolocation record for the officers, which I'm sure would be a great tool in the prevention of police corruption, as well as in outlier cases like this one.
 

Sara125

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Should we have told everybody they should second guess their GP because of Harold Shipman? Of course not.

It's on the government to restore trust in its police forces but that does not extend to working even more fear into the public by suggesting all police officers might be about to kidnap them. This was one man in 135,000. Some context is needed.
Actually, people did in fact start to question the notion that a doctor’s word is law and the healthcare system was reformed as a result of the Shipman case, known as the ‘Shipman effect.’

9/11 happened and the ENTIRE aviation industry across the world was changed from passport validation to security at the airport check-in all the way up to the sturdiness of cockpit doors.

My point? Seems like only the police are allowed to repeatedly feck up and feck all is done to adequately reform them.
 

Rado_N

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Because next time there is a crime in progress, which unlike this particular incident will be in about the next 30 seconds, we can't have the police sitting there watching whilst waiting for a second officer to arrive.

Honestly, did i really need to explain that to you?
We’re discussing fundamental changes to an institution things will need to be worked out such as ensuring officers never work alone. Everything needs rethinking and not just starting with “won’t work” mentality.

I’m really not seeing why you need to try and be a condescending dick about it.
 

Penna

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This is such a depressing and sad case, the whole thing is awful from start to finish. Sometimes there are crimes which stay in your mind, this is one of them.

Her family were so eloquent in describing the immense loss they've suffered. Sarah looked so friendly and open, you could see it in her face. There's so much love for her.