The murder of Sarah Everard | Couzens sentenced to a whole-life order

[Rhyme Animal]

This is such a depressing and sad case, the whole thing is awful from start to finish. Sometimes there are crimes which stay in your mind, this is one of them.

Her family were so eloquent in describing the immense loss they've suffered. Sarah looked so friendly and open, you could see it in her face. There's so much love for her.

Agree, it’s absolutely disgraceful.

I also think you could see she was a lovely, intelligent person who in no way deserved for her entire life to be ended by a corrupt, repulsive excuse of a human.

I really hope her family somehow manage to find moments of happiness again in time.

And as stated before, seeing new measures put in place to ensure this doesn’t happen again would be the least that should happen.

 

[Fts 74]

It's one of those rare cases(thankfully)that is almost impossible to comprehend.

It has sickened me.

 

[Ludens the Red]

As much as people like to think they know the ins and outs of policing and have all the answers regarding re-form and how to change things, I think its clear from a lot of posts that there's probably a significant lack of actual insight, knowledge and some slightly bizarre ideas for policing to be addressed.
I know most of you mean well, (though there are a few keyboard warriors spouting their usual shite) but there's endless amounts of things and changes happening in this country with policing. Unfortunately you also have to acknowledge that a lot of cnuts join the police and do cnut things. And it's very difficult to permanently stop that happening. In Wayne Couzens case there's such a mish mash of information regarding his past and whilst it's clear he shouldn't have been working as a police officer, we still don't seem to have reached the point where (for arguments sake the met can sit down in court with Couzens solicitor) put pen to paper and say, Couzens did x+y and that equalled z and that's when he should have been sacked/suspended. It's shit but that's the reality of it regarding any matter, police or not.

There's an idea that the met just close ranks all the time on these cnuts but that is not the case. I don't know why the met don't do it but they should really release details of all the sackings that take place as a result of other officers being open and transparent about other officers. The reform is ongoing but there will never stop being bumps and when it goes wrong the answers are never going to be 'getting rid of police badges and logging into an app' or 'ignore all officers unless they're partnered up'....

They should have the right to refuse to go anywhere until a second officer arrives on the scene.

Don't officers already work in pairs? If they're not, then that's a simple change to make along with letting people know that a lone officer can't arrest them and put them in an unmarked car.

We’re discussing fundamental changes to an institution things will need to be worked out such as ensuring officers never work alone. Everything needs rethinking and not just starting with “won’t work” mentality.

I’m really not seeing why you need to try and be a condescending dick about it.

I'll start here but this is never going to happen, ever. It's literally impossible. In London, it's manageable to some extent because of the size of the met but still, loads of areas in the met where the volume of people, calls and crime outweigh the demands of officers (suburbs) you have no choice but to work alone. When you start heading into the counties it's not even an option to work in a pair, you're alone and that's it.
You've got entire counties being manned by only about twenty or so officers on shift for areas with about 200,000 plus people. They do not have anywhere near the resources available to double crew every single patrol car. Police pay outside of London is below average, you're at significant risk at work and if you're a female lone working, you pretty much know you're getting assaulted a few times a year. I know a girl in Beds who got battered at work twice at domestic calls within a few months and actually left the service. People don't want to be police officers outside of London. This isn't a call for sympathy, it's the reality and why calls for 'institutional police changes' to solve this kind of resource issue is barking up the wrong tree. People are able to identify the governments part in the piss poor running of the nhs, well here's a clue as to who has a part to play when it comes to problems in the police. I think you guys might need to acknowledge what things are like out there and then think if your suggestions are even remotely practical?

The bit in bold, I mean really? is that actually a genuine thing you think should be implemented? A lot of the time plain clothes cars are used to catch suspects of actual stabbings, sexual assaults, robberies and burglaries. And you want people to have the right to refuse to be arrested? I mean, it shouldn't need pointing out but the answer to preventing another Wayne Couzens is clearly not to be stupid about things so that you cannot police properly at all.

Not only this, but it appears it's time the whole idea of a Police Identification badge is brought into the 21st century. My staff are all on a clock in app, where they can start their shift once inside the geo location and then clock out again before they leave. While they're in, the screen looks green and when they've clocked out, it goes red on their phones.

We do it for payroll, but I'm sure creating a similar piece of software would be simple enough, to show that a police officer is on duty and carrying out the duties they are supposed to be. It could also provide a geolocation record for the officers, which I'm sure would be a great tool in the prevention of police corruption, as well as in outlier cases like this one.

I imagine your company are slightly smaller than the entirety of the police force. I'm not sure where this money is coming from to implement this software either ? considering the met already has gps on vehicles and radios, what exactly would it prevent? Explain exactly how this would work at stopping police corruption. And for arguments sake what part could it have played in stopping Wayne Couzens?

Also are you actually genuinely suggesting police should no longer carry identification badges and should instead use an app? Think it's clear that would be a very very stupid idea.

 

[Madthinker]

It’s very unlikely he was that inept to be given the positions he was though…

It’s worth remembering that many, if not all serial offenders tend to become more and more brazen as their crimes increase. It’s what often leads to them getting caught.

As I understand it, he bought the area of woodland in 2019.

That's and unusual thing to do, isn't it? - for a man of limited means to buy a small area of woodland. And then to keep hold it, despite his debt.

 

[oates]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...10-2021&utm_term=IND_Headlines_Masterlist_CDP

Police probe links to other crimes. - @Rhyme Animal @jojojo

Colleagues named Couzens the Rapist because he “had a reputation in terms of drug abuse, extreme pornography and other offences of this kind”. - this is what I find difficult to accept, that his drug use let alone his attraction to violent pornography is known and supposedly his colleagues thought he was a suitable officer to represent the Police Service.

 

[Damien]

The bit in bold, I mean really? is that actually a genuine thing you think should be implemented? A lot of the time plain clothes cars are used to catch suspects of actual stabbings, sexual assaults, robberies and burglaries. And you want people to have the right to refuse to be arrested? I mean, it shouldn't need pointing out but the answer to preventing another Wayne Couzens is clearly not to be stupid about things so that you cannot police properly at all.

There have actually been high ranking current and former members of the police on Sky News over the past 24 hours saying that people should ask for a colleague before going in an unmarked car, or at the very least ask to speak to the control room using the officer's radio or call 999 to ask a question (both the latter two said by the actual policing minister Kit Malthouse).

I completely agree with you that the government is responsible for the cut in police numbers over their tenure which is making it more difficult to police but an inadequate disciplinary system which led to this horrific crime occuring has consequences, and the trust that a lot of people had in the police has gone completely with the above being a must while actual reforms take place.

Deputy Commissioner Sir Stephen House said that the Met Police will not deploy plain-clothes police officers on their own, so if seeing one on their own due to being split-up it is reasonable to ask for verification that they're actively working before going anywhere with them.

 

[FootyGirl88]

So runaway from the police and call the police, im sorry but this very ghetto. We're living in a 3rd world country at this point.

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[Ananke]

So runaway from the police and call the police, im sorry but this very ghetto. We're living in a 3rd world country at this point.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I mean that's ridiculous.

 

[VP89]

So runaway from the police and call the police, im sorry but this very ghetto. We're living in a 3rd world country at this point.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I mean that's ridiculous.

No its not.

They state if its a plained clothed person claiming he's an officer.

This is stupid clickbait from LBC

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

The most disturbing institutional thing is that 1) He wiped his phone moments before they arrived (possible tipped off)

2) There were officers who spoke positively about him at sentencing (not actually heard what’s been said could be lies to spread further division )

Not getting the overall hate for the met police. No institution is perfect and all should strive to improve. However compared to most over countries I’d say the met is police is pretty good. This one apple shouldn’t be used to judge the entire force. This is one of the few countries in the world where he does that and gets caught first time (think it’s his first time, but won’t be surprised if he ends up like Levi Belfield)

Also I think the whole life tariff is very deserved but based on the crappy sentencing system in the U.K. it will probably get reduced on appeal. You have double murderers, with a sex motive, doing 30-38 minimum terms. An appeal lawyer will argue him getting a whole life tariff was based on him abusing police powers is and due to the publicity of the case.

I dont think it will, given that murdering a police officer is an automatic whole life tarrif, I cant see what grounds murder BY a police officer would be treated as less deserving.

 

[diarm]

I imagine your company are slightly smaller than the entirety of the police force. I'm not sure where this money is coming from to implement this software either ? considering the met already has gps on vehicles and radios, what exactly would it prevent? Explain exactly how this would work at stopping police corruption. And for arguments sake what part could it have played in stopping Wayne Couzens?

Also are you actually genuinely suggesting police should no longer carry identification badges and should instead use an app? Think it's clear that would be a very very stupid idea.

A very, very stupid idea to digitalise the identification badge? It's 2021 mate.

My company might be smaller than the police force, but my industry dwarfs it, and a large majority of industry is getting with the times.

How many of us are already carrying digital Covid vaccination certificates? A relatively simple, lightweight piece of software that will be the same for everyone won't necessarily be prohibitively expensive.

A police officer can leave a vehicle or radio behind and offer an excuse for it, as Couzens did in this situation. I'm saying that this should be on their phones which they can be instructed to carry with them at all times. It would provide a record of their location while on shift. Any police officer caught not carrying his phone while on shift would be breaking the law and could rightfully be ignored by a member of the public.

In this case, there is a good chance that the people who witnesses Sarah's "arrest" could've been alerted to the fact that this wasn't a legitimate action by an on duty police officer.

In the US, don't large swathes of the police force carry body cams while interacting with the public? That is far more technically challenging and expensive than this would be.

It would show any member of the public who is being approached, that the officer in question is on duty, and accountable for what they are doing at the time.

When you have a small number of police officers murdering people while in uniform, a larger number raping people while in uniform and a larger number still abusing their power for lesser evils, I reckon you find the money and more flexible mindset to start exploring ways to hold them more accountable.

 

[Ludens the Red]

There have actually been high ranking current and former members of the police on Sky News over the past 24 hours saying that people should ask for a colleague before going in an unmarked car, or at the very least ask to speak to the control room using the officer's radio or call 999 to ask a question (both the latter two said by the actual policing minister Kit Malthouse).

I completely agree with you that the government is responsible for the cut in police numbers over their tenure which is making it more difficult to police but an inadequate disciplinary system which led to this horrific crime occuring has consequences, and the trust that a lot of people had in the police has gone completely with the above being a must while actual reforms take place.

Deputy Commissioner Sir Stephen House said that the Met Police will not deploy plain-clothes police officers on their own, so if seeing one on their own due to being split-up it is reasonable to ask for verification that they're actively working before going anywhere with them.

What I’d say is that ‘high ranking police’ are generally quite oblivious to the practicalities of day to day policing. As I said, in most of London there won’t be an issue with single deployment because you’ll be double crewed most of the time. But there are many circumstances where you may be on your own for any given reason. One is the obvious numbers issue, although much more likely to be a problem outside of London.

Secondly I’ll give you a few examples which occur daily. If two plain clothed officers arrest someone, the arresting officer would travel in a separate van to a police station with the arrested person. That would then leave the other officer alone. At this stage this officer would then basically be on single patrol until the point he returned to a station.
Another scenario is calls involving multiple suspects. Predominantly during burglaries there are multiple suspects fleeing the scene and officers can be left alone/split up to contain suspects.
The higher ups can implement this non solo plain clothed deployments but it won’t stop members of public still coming across single officers in plain clothes a lot. I’d have refrained from blanket statements like that, especially if you don’t go on to explain in detail the practicalities of it. People will take it literally ….

What’s interesting and kind of terrifying is the approach points here were not actually factors in the case.
Wayne Couzens wasn’t deployed alone, he was off duty and went out on his own accord. He also did verify himself to Sarah and he was actually a legitimate officer. In the event that this was ever repeated, unfortunately none of these talked about implementations would make a difference.

 

[Mihai]

@diarm

I don't know if i understood correctly, so please let me know. But, do you suggest a sort of publicly available app that will show all patrolling officers in your vicinity? And if so, wouldn't this interfere with genuine crime prevention?

 

[diarm]

@diarm

I don't know if i understood correctly, so please let me know. But, do you suggest a sort of publicly available app that will show all patrolling officers in your vicinity? And if so, wouldn't this interfere with genuine crime prevention?

No. I'm suggesting a digital identification card that the police officers themselves carry. The location of officers wouldn't be visible to the public, but would be recorded and visible to authorities later in any investigation.

It would work in the same way as the physical ID cards do, in that the officers can show the person they are speaking to that they are a police officer, but with simple software, it could also show members of the public that this officer is indeed on duty, and authorized to be stopping and speaking to them.

You could incorporate a QR code that members of the public could scan, that directs them to the officers basic profile on a central database. This would provide a record of interactions which would be useful for both the public and law enforcement.

 

[Ludens the Red]

A very, very stupid idea to digitalise the identification badge? It's 2021 mate.

My company might be smaller than the police force, but my industry dwarfs it, and a large majority of industry is getting with the times.

How many of us are already carrying digital Covid vaccination certificates? A relatively simple, lightweight piece of software that will be the same for everyone won't necessarily be prohibitively expensive.

A police officer can leave a vehicle or radio behind and offer an excuse for it, as Couzens did in this situation. I'm saying that this should be on their phones which they can be instructed to carry with them at all times. It would provide a record of their location while on shift. Any police officer caught not carrying his phone while on shift would be breaking the law and could rightfully be ignored by a member of the public.

In this case, there is a good chance that the people who witnesses Sarah's "arrest" could've been alerted to the fact that this wasn't a legitimate action by an on duty police officer.

In the US, don't large swathes of the police force carry body cams while interacting with the public? That is far more technically challenging and expensive than this would be.

It would show any member of the public who is being approached, that the officer in question is on duty, and accountable for what they are doing at the time.

When you have a small number of police officers murdering people while in uniform, a larger number raping people while in uniform and a larger number still abusing their power for lesser evils, I reckon you find the money and more flexible mindset to start exploring ways to hold them more accountable.

I’m afraid you’re just well off the mark here and clearly haven’t considered the practical side of this or the potential problems. To start with if officers are stopping people in plain clothes they should be identifying themselves with their badge. Bringing out your phone and opening up an app is not practical. A police officer can leave behind a radio or vehicle behind but they can’t leave their phone? Their phone can’t run out of battery? Lose signal? And Couzens was off duty as has been stated numerous times. How would this app have prevented this or had any effect whatsoever if he was off duty. You also seemed to have missed the fact without the app he was still caught.

“Any officer on shift caught not carrying his phone would be breaking the law”.
I think there should be some reflection on this sentence.

Please explain how witnesses would have been able to realise this was not a legitimate action by an officer ….. by the use of this app??

I don’t know what planet you’re living on where you think body worn cameras would cost more to implement than phones with top of the range actual positional gps trackers for 150, 000 officers in the U.K.

As for the last bit, again I don’t know what planet you’re on or where you live but thankfully in the U.K. we do not regularly have officers in uniform murdering and raping people. And please explain where this magic money is going to be found.

 

[Ananke]

No its not.

They state if its a plained clothed person claiming he's an officer.

This is stupid clickbait from LBC

Ah fair enough. Agreed on bolded then

 

[Ludens the Red]

No. I'm suggesting a digital identification card that the police officers themselves carry. The location of officers wouldn't be visible to the public, but would be recorded and visible to authorities later in any investigation.

It would work in the same way as the physical ID cards do, in that the officers can show the person they are speaking to that they are a police officer, but with simple software, it could also show members of the public that this officer is indeed on duty, and authorized to be stopping and speaking to them.

You could incorporate a QR code that members of the public could scan, that directs them to the officers basic profile on a central database. This would provide a record of interactions which would be useful for both the public and law enforcement.

Out of curiosity when an officer puts someone in handcuffs or attempts arrest for say example, carrying an offensive weapon, carrying drugs or worse having committed a serious assault on another. At what point during this interaction should that suspect be taken out of his/her handcuffs and allowed to scan the QR code on the officers phone?

Secondly I feel like investing in such top of the range software and distributing it to police officers would be a bit of a waste. I’d quite like to see such incredible gps tracking software used on say, registered sex offenders for example..there are 100,000 of them in the U.K. I think this would be a much better use of public money because ultimately that’s who would foot the bill.

 

[F-Red]

You could incorporate a QR code that members of the public could scan, that directs them to the officers basic profile on a central database. This would provide a record of interactions which would be useful for both the public and law enforcement.

Do you really think that this would work in a real world? This is policing we're talking about, not checking into a pub with a covid app or downloading a menu from a restaurant.

 

[Damien]

What’s interesting and kind of terrifying is the approach points here were not actually factors in the case.
Wayne Couzens wasn’t deployed alone, he was off duty and went out on his own accord. He also did verify himself to Sarah and he was actually a legitimate officer. In the event that this was ever repeated, unfortunately none of these talked about implementations would make a difference.

He verified with his warrant card. The talked about implementation of having to speak to control room/another officer for example when requested would in all likelihood make a difference as it then involves another party rather than just Couzens alone.

Some select events from before, during and immediate aftermath:

March 3rd 4:50pm - Couzens drives hire car out of the centre
March 3rd 9:34pm - Couzens handcuffs Everard on Poynders Road by his hire car
March 3rd 11:31pm - CCTV shows Couzens in Dover, court told that he transferred her to his Seat then, and at some point after drove to a remote rural spot northwest of Dover and raped her
March 4th 2:31am - Seat picked up on number-plate recognition camera in Dover, by which point she was likely murdered
March 4th 6:32am - CCTV picks up Seat near Hoad's Wood
March 4th evening - Everard reported missing by boyfriend
March 5th 11:00am - Couzens buys petrol can which he then fills up
March 5th 12:45pm - witness sees fire in Hoad's Wood

Alternative:

March 3rd 9:30pm - Couzens stops Everard, she asks to speak to control room/she rings 999 where verified he's not on duty, car registration noted (would it flag up that it is not in the database of police cars?). If an actual incident, her name and what police station she's being taken to are noted (there are three or four in a 20 minute drive range). If, 30 minutes later there's no report back to control, the police station is rung, they try to get in contact with Couzens/Everard and if nothing then the alarm is raised.

He got away with everything as long as he did because there was nobody to be accountable to. Under the alternative he might have still raped and murdered her (though going through official channels may have been enough of a deterrent) but it wouldn't have got to the stage where he was able to set the body on fire.

And we're not talking about the implementations happening in all cases, but if the person being arrested is concerned they can go through the channels.

Ultimately what is needed is widespread reform with the onus not being on the woman to have to go through these measures to protect herself. That we're having to suggest that they may need to call the police to investigate whether what is happening to them is legit is a sad reflection of the present form of our justice system.

 

[FireballXL5]

A few bad apples.

Sarah Everard: Gross misconduct probe into Couzens WhatsApp group

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58760933

 

[dannyrhinos89]

This scumbag could’ve easily become a serial killer. He was certainly well on the way to it.

drug abuse
extreme narcissism
exposing himself
into violent pornography

unfortunately for Sarah he took the step up and made his dark thoughts into reality. I’ve no doubt had he not being caught he would’ve done it again. Tbh it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s already done it before.

 

[Ludens the Red]

He verified with his warrant card. The talked about implementation of having to speak to control room/another officer for example when requested would in all likelihood make a difference as it then involves another party rather than just Couzens alone.

I see what you’re saying but this is something already in place. If you arrive on scene or stop anyone you alert the control room and give them your position. You have to identify yourself if you give an order, it's all there in writing in the police manual. Many cases are thrown out of court and many people sue the police if this isn't adhered too.
There is no actual operational change that can be made from how it is now that would have stopped Couzens. This is more to make people aware of their rights should they come across police but it would be done by most officers carrying out their duties at the time anyway. Couzens kidnapped and murdered someone whilst off duty and so it's a safe bet to suggest that operational policing procedures are not something that on this day he would have chosen to follow. I'll go out on the limb and say someone who commits such an act probably wouldn't refrain from committing said act purely through not having ready access to a handcuff and police badge. You can buy handcuffs and fake police badges off the internet.

Some select events from before, during and immediate aftermath:

March 3rd 4:50pm - Couzens drives hire car out of the centre
March 3rd 9:34pm - Couzens handcuffs Everard on Poynders Road by his hire car
March 3rd 11:31pm - CCTV shows Couzens in Dover, court told that he transferred her to his Seat then, and at some point after drove to a remote rural spot northwest of Dover and raped her
March 4th 2:31am - Seat picked up on number-plate recognition camera in Dover, by which point she was likely murdered
March 4th 6:32am - CCTV picks up Seat near Hoad's Wood
March 4th evening - Everard reported missing by boyfriend
March 5th 11:00am - Couzens buys petrol can which he then fills up
March 5th 12:45pm - witness sees fire in Hoad's Wood

Alternative:

March 3rd 9:30pm - Couzens stops Everard, she asks to speak to control room/she rings 999 where verified he's not on duty, car registration noted (would it flag up that it is not in the database of police cars?). If an actual incident, her name and what police station she's being taken to are noted (there are three or four in a 20 minute drive range). If, 30 minutes later there's no report back to control, the police station is rung, they try to get in contact with Couzens/Everard and if nothing then the alarm is raised.

Like I said before Couzens wouldn't have followed these procedures had he been at work anyway, let alone outside of work. He abused his power and would have done regardless of this hypothetical situation you've presented where basically an off duty police officer is about to commit the worse act possible and basically stops mid way through to basically tell people that he's about to do it. If someone gets arrested police procedure states you call up the control room and take them to your nearest station., its recorded. So again, these things you seem to want implemented are already there. You need to be able to acknowledge Couzens did these things mainly because he's a piece of shit not because there's any significant operational policing flaw.

He got away with everything as long as he did because there was nobody to be accountable to. Under the alternative he might have still raped and murdered her (though going through official channels may have been enough of a deterrent) but it wouldn't have got to the stage where he was able to set the body on fire.

Again, this is a bit of a false point because it's again putting into place a scenario where someone about to murder someone basically snitches themselves up as they're doing it.

And we're not talking about the implementations happening in all cases, but if the person being arrested is concerned they can go through the channels.

Again, this more or less happens anyway. I think maybe you've kind of diverted away from my initial point as well because I never implied or said police needed to keep information away from people when dealing with them in one on one situations. It was more against the comment where the OP stated 'lone officers can't arrest people'.

Ultimately what is needed is widespread reform with the onus not being on the woman to have to go through these measures to protect herself. That we're having to suggest that they may need to call the police to investigate whether what is happening to them is legit is a sad reflection of the present form of our justice system.

It's kind of easy to throw the word reform around and come up with a load of operational changes that can fix everything but it all honesty it stems from a place where there's a distinct lack of knowledge of anything policing/justice system related. In the case of Couzens blaming 'institutional protection' or 'operational' problems doesn't fit at all.

Couzens was a suspect in two indecent exposures but he wasn't charged for any of them so how would the met justify sacking him? Indecent exposure is one of those grey area crimes too . If you took a piss on the street and turned around and someone saw your genitals you could be charged . Wanking on a bus you would be charged, in Couzens case it sounds like he was driving around naked from the waist down. If most people witnessed someone driving naked from the waist down they would think mental health as opposed to sexual predator. Those are all hugely different scenarios yet they carry the same offence. Did those cases fall because of inept investigating or because of lack of evidence? or did the court refuse to charge? that doesn't seem to have come out yet. Before the blame game begins, it's best to wait for the results of the inquiry.

The papers keep reporting on his love for violent porn and how he was nicknamed 'rapist' before joining the met, and whilst it's important to know that, did anyone put this down on paper? who said it? when did they say it? there has to be context and examples, was it looked into ? otherwise its just speculation and hearsay, you can't fire people based on that. It's obvious he was a wrong un but hunches and hearsay don't really fly in court.

What I find unbelievable are the accusations that those who didn't report on Couzens behaviours against women did so because they were 'protecting him' and 'closing rank'. We've had so many high profile cases down the years where women for a whole number of reasons are hesitant to report on men who harass them at work. Now you have people (who probably don't even realise it) potentially blaming these same women who may have been victims themselves, for not reporting on Couzens. I think people need to get perspective and go through these incidents with a bit of sense before they start bashing their keyboards, and that's not at all directed at you @Damien

 

[11101]

He verified with his warrant card. The talked about implementation of having to speak to control room/another officer for example when requested would in all likelihood make a difference as it then involves another party rather than just Couzens alone.

Some select events from before, during and immediate aftermath:

March 3rd 4:50pm - Couzens drives hire car out of the centre
March 3rd 9:34pm - Couzens handcuffs Everard on Poynders Road by his hire car
March 3rd 11:31pm - CCTV shows Couzens in Dover, court told that he transferred her to his Seat then, and at some point after drove to a remote rural spot northwest of Dover and raped her
March 4th 2:31am - Seat picked up on number-plate recognition camera in Dover, by which point she was likely murdered
March 4th 6:32am - CCTV picks up Seat near Hoad's Wood
March 4th evening - Everard reported missing by boyfriend
March 5th 11:00am - Couzens buys petrol can which he then fills up
March 5th 12:45pm - witness sees fire in Hoad's Wood

Alternative:

March 3rd 9:30pm - Couzens stops Everard, she asks to speak to control room/she rings 999 where verified he's not on duty, car registration noted (would it flag up that it is not in the database of police cars?). If an actual incident, her name and what police station she's being taken to are noted (there are three or four in a 20 minute drive range). If, 30 minutes later there's no report back to control, the police station is rung, they try to get in contact with Couzens/Everard and if nothing then the alarm is raised.

He got away with everything as long as he did because there was nobody to be accountable to. Under the alternative he might have still raped and murdered her (though going through official channels may have been enough of a deterrent) but it wouldn't have got to the stage where he was able to set the body on fire.

And we're not talking about the implementations happening in all cases, but if the person being arrested is concerned they can go through the channels.

Ultimately what is needed is widespread reform with the onus not being on the woman to have to go through these measures to protect herself. That we're having to suggest that they may need to call the police to investigate whether what is happening to them is legit is a sad reflection of the present form of our justice system.

He would stop and detain her (you cant have a situation where police have to wait to detain or arrest somebody) and then the rest becomes irrelevant. Once she's handcuffed and in the car it doesn't matter what is supposed to happen, she's gone. It probably didn't take her long to figure out something was wrong anyway.

To implement that she has to be given an opportunity to verify who he is before he gets control of her, and that can't work within the context of policing. Step one for the police must always be to get control of the person.

 

[oates]

What I find unbelievable are the accusations that those who didn't report on Couzens behaviours against women did so because they were 'protecting him' and 'closing rank'. We've had so many high profile cases down the years where women for a whole number of reasons are hesitant to report on men who harass them at work. Now you have people (who probably don't even realise it) potentially blaming these same women who may have been victims themselves, for not reporting on Couzens. I think people need to get perspective and go through these incidents with a bit of sense before they start bashing their keyboards, and that's not at all directed at you @Damien

You are the expert, how many colleagues did he have? What's the likely/average make-up? Some men - some women? Enough to have had some locker room banter over his activities? How many would it have taken to raise concerns with superiors where it might have clicked that this isn't the sort of officer you want in the service?

 

[CassiusClaymore]

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Utterly tone deaf.

 

[esmufc07]

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Utterly tone deaf.

Absolutely horrendous comment.

 

[Jippy]

When you have a small number of police officers murdering people while in uniform, a larger number raping people while in uniform and a larger number still abusing their power for lesser evils, I reckon you find the money and more flexible mindset to start exploring ways to hold them more accountable.

Just reading back through this- can you quantify these? This case more seems a ghastly outlier, rather than of several instances of murder by police, let alone the rapes?

 

[FootyGirl88]

This country is sick

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[esmufc07]

Has retracted his comments but I’d imagine he’ll resign within the coming days.

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[Ixion]

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Utterly tone deaf.

Be more streetwise about a genuine police officer showing you a legit warrant card carrying handcuffs saying all the correct things.

There was literally nothing she could have done once he picked her out.

 

[oates]

Has retracted his comments but I’d imagine he’ll resign within the coming days.

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Inept? Sets a standard?

 

[sullydnl]

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Utterly tone deaf.

It's like some people want to lose their jobs.

 

[FootyGirl88]

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[Ludens the Red]

You are the expert, how many colleagues did he have? What's the likely/average make-up? Some men - some women? Enough to have had some locker room banter over his activities? How many would it have taken to raise concerns with superiors where it might have clicked that this isn't the sort of officer you want in the service?

Never said I was an expert… not sure why you’re taking that tone. I’m explaining things in detail so that people understand things better. This isn’t e-fighting.
I also half answered that in the paragraph above the quote you posted.
Everything at the moment is speculative, there doesn’t seem to be a significant incident involving him that got to the point of complaint and then investigation. Youve got claims that he was nicknamed a rapist before he joined the Met. And a colleague from 2002 (again before he joined the Met) said he liked violent pornography. He joined the Met in 2018 and moved around a fair bit since then so this was clearly not something that was easy to pinpoint.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

It's like some people want to lose their jobs.

They're just naturally vile and they can only hide it for so long.

 

[horsechoker]

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Just a few bad apples

 

[oates]

Never said I was an expert… not sure why you’re taking that tone. I’m explaining things in detail so that people understand things better. This isn’t e-fighting.
I also half answered that in the paragraph above the quote you posted.
Everything at the moment is speculative, there doesn’t seem to be a significant incident involving him that got to the point of complaint and then investigation. Youve got claims that he was nicknamed a rapist before he joined the Met. And a colleague from 2002 (again before he joined the Met) said he liked violent pornography. He joined the Met in 2018 and moved around a fair bit since then so this was clearly not something that was easy to pinpoint.

There's no tone as such, just questions, I haven't been the one to accuse people of being keyboard warriors. From your detailed posts I had begun to think that you were either police yourself or had experience.

It has been stated that his colleagues knew of his misogynistic and sexual proclivities - there needs to be a mindset that certain things need to be reported or the police services let themselves down time after time from within.

Personally I think we can all see the point of the questions without the need to get arsey.

 

[Ludens the Red]

There's no tone as such, just questions, I haven't been the one to accuse people of being keyboard warriors. From your detailed posts I had begun to think that you were either police yourself or had experience.

It has been stated that his colleagues knew of his misogynistic and sexual proclivities - there needs to be a mindset that certain things need to be reported or the police services let themselves down time after time from within.

Personally I think we can all see the point of the questions without the need to get arsey.

I think when someone starts talking about officers bringing out apps and getting people to scan them with a qr code it’s a fair assessment to describe said posting with the term ‘keyboard warriors’.
I am indeed, hence the tone of my posts, it’s from experience.

They had but these reports vary from before his time with the Met to unsubstantiated ones in the Met. As I said in the last post, going back even to 2002.
The bottom line is everyone seems to be acknowledging that he harassed or made women feel uncomfortable at work and it wasn’t reported. To label this as some sort of cover up or ‘protecting’ or ‘letting themselves down’ seems in bad taste and I don’t think it would be said about females in any other working environment.

 

[RedSky]

So runaway from the police and call the police, im sorry but this very ghetto. We're living in a 3rd world country at this point.

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1. Call someone immediately so they're aware of the situation.
2. Flag down literally anyone, a car, a house, anyone to be there with you.

Running away seems utterly mental. Why would you turn your back on someone pretending to be Police? Get as many people around you as soon as possible is surely better?

 

[oates]

I think when someone starts talking about officers bringing out apps and getting people to scan them with a qr code it’s a fair assessment to describe said posting with the term ‘keyboard warriors’.
I am indeed, hence the tone of my posts, it’s from experience.

They had but these reports vary from before his time with the Met to unsubstantiated ones in the Met. As I said in the last post, going back even to 2002.
The bottom line is everyone seems to be acknowledging that he harassed or made women feel uncomfortable at work and it wasn’t reported. To label this as some sort of cover up or ‘protecting’ or ‘letting themselves down’ seems in bad taste and I don’t think it would be said about females in any other working environment.

I have no ideas regarding apps but from my perspective you have been coming across as a bit sensitive on this topic, maybe with your experience that's understandable but people with little knowledge are trying to come up with some ideas which will help not be a pain the bum about, maybe we could all take a step back and get some perspective.

However I'm not understanding your second paragraph at all I'm afraid. I don't understand the part about thinking it would be said about females etc.

I think we can talk about our feelings surrounding the case regarding what was known by his colleagues and what should be reported in future all we like, this is a forum and thread for that purpose and standards even amongst some top officers are clearly lacking. We should all want better from our police force than for someone with a record on exposing himself and openly discussing what we wouldn't think is acceptable being a police officer with some very obvious powers over citizens.