The murder of Sarah Everard | Couzens sentenced to a whole-life order

Classical Mechanic

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Worth noting she does describe it as a "thought-experiment" in multiple attached tweets.



Sounds like a cynical ploy to get people to sign up and pay to get past their paywall. Not sure why Moran seems to think that it's a win that men are reacting negatively to the tweet that doesn't say it's a thought experiment.
 

Smores

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Happy to be challenged on bullshit but i don't quite get why this has become such a big gender issue. There's a whole host of genuine issues around gender but is this one really a societal issue and not just an issue of murderers being bad?

Unfortunately women are more at risk that's not going to change because they'll always be the threat of murderers. Changing toxic male behaviour is an admirable goal but it's not going to stop murderers.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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The Times are apparently genuinely supporting a 'temporary' curfew of men. :nervous:

Just saw the Sunday Times editor Emma Tucker on the news saying that their editorial stance is supportive of a curfew on all men - temporarily, she stressed - and that they'll be publishing a series of articles as part of that campaign.

Some of the articles here that they've already published, currently a trending event topic on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/i/events/1372509390075465728

Caitlin Moran opinion piece today:

Strange that what started as a flippant, throwaway comment is now getting actual support.
Ill be doing time then, I run at night, shop at night etc as Im working all day.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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Add to that is she offering to cover the wages for men who have to take a "temporary" leave from work, either because they start before dawn, finish after dark or generally work night, or is she going to personally drive the 1000s of trucks on our roads at night, whilst maintaining those roads at the same time. And how will she deal with her local waitrose having empty shelves for the duration, or being caught in ridiculous traffic during the day as all deliveries now need to made before its dark. Another well thought out idea from someone with no idea about how the practical world actually works.
 

hobbers

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As a thought experiment...

All law-abiding men indoors after dark.

All non law-abiding men continue doing whatever they like. Now with even less of a deterrent.

Genius.
 

Pexbo

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As a thought experiment...

All law-abiding men indoors after dark.

All non law-abiding men continue doing whatever they like. Now with even less of a deterrent.

Genius.

How ever would we know which men that were out after the curfew were law abiding?
 

hobbers

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How ever would we know which men that were out after the curfew were law abiding?
Who's going to be out combing every suburban street and dark alley to catch these curfew breakers?

Police(men)?

Eureka?
 

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Sounds like a cynical ploy to get people to sign up and pay to get past their paywall. Not sure why Moran seems to think that it's a win that men are reacting negatively to the tweet that doesn't say it's a thought experiment.
You can literally put a / at the end of their URL’s and it bypasses their paywall

edit: they appear to have caught on
 

Synco

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Worth noting she does describe it as a "thought-experiment" in multiple attached tweets.
Hm. Headline & summary suggest otherwise and the article is paywalled. After some tweets taking the initial information at face value, she comes up with the "thought experiment" line, which apparently could have only been comprehended by reading the paywalled article. Looks like a deliberate baiting/shit stirring strategy to me.
 

Pexbo

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Who's going to be out combing every suburban street and dark alley to catch these curfew breakers?

Police(men)?

Eureka?
Is that not the same for every law ever? The point of this thought experiment is that if men are under curfew, any man seen out after the curfew would be deemed a threat and could legitimately have the police called on them. As things stand, a man could act entirely threateningly and it still not be deemed a legitimate reason for the police to be called.
 

hobbers

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Is that not the same for every law ever? The point of this thought experiment is that if men are under curfew, any man seen out after the curfew would be deemed a threat and could legitimately have the police called on them. As things stand, a man could act entirely threateningly and it still not be deemed a legitimate reason for the police to be called.
Seems to be basically the same as saying if everyone leaves their doors and windows wide open when they go on holiday it'll be fine because the burglars will be kind enough to always telegraph their arrival.

Any motivated sex attacker/mugger/kidnapper/trafficker could alter their appearance to look female. It's dark - who's going to be approaching them to check their gender? And that's before we even get to the obvious issue of vehicles. Going to need a blanket curfew on vehicles as well because we sure as feck ain't gonna be checking the gender of every driver.
 

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Seems to be basically the same as saying if everyone leaves their doors and windows wide open when they go on holiday it'll be fine because the burglars will be kind enough to always telegraph their arrival.

Any motivated sex attacker/mugger/kidnapper/trafficker could alter their appearance to look female. It's dark - who's going to be approaching them to check their gender? And that's before we even get to the obvious issue of vehicles. Going to need a blanket curfew on vehicles as well because we sure as feck ain't gonna be checking the gender of every driver.

But women drivers are very easy to spot. Because men drive like cnuts
 

Dr. Dwayne

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Is that not the same for every law ever? The point of this thought experiment is that if men are under curfew, any man seen out after the curfew would be deemed a threat and could legitimately have the police called on them. As things stand, a man could act entirely threateningly and it still not be deemed a legitimate reason for the police to be called.
Is that true in the UK? I once called the cops on someone and they asked me if I felt threatened, implying that they'd send someone right over if I did. Since I said no it took them a while to show up but this is Canada.
 

TheReligion

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Just listening to the news and a lady is complaining that she believes if she reported a shoplifter she'd get a quicker response than if she said she'd been raped. Knowing that's factually incorrect why is this type of thing finding its way on the national news and helping spread more misinformation?
 

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The Corinthian

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56567387

The family of a student from west London who has been missing for a week say they are becoming increasingly worried about his safety.
Richard Okorogheye, 19, has been shielding throughout the coronavirus pandemic because he has sickle cell disease, which affects how red blood cells work in the body.
His mother, Evidence Joel, said he left the family home in the Ladbroke Grove area on 22 March.
He said he was going to see a friend.
Ms Joel, a nurse, said she returned home from work at about 21:00 GMT and assumed her son - who had only been leaving the house for his regular blood transfusions - was back home and in his bedroom.
But Richard has not been seen since, and he did not take his wallet, bus pass or bank card with him.
Ms Joel said her son, who has also in the past been known to frequent the Westminster, Hammersmith and Fulham areas, had been "struggling to cope" with his university course.
He is in the first year of a business and IT degree at Oxford Brookes.
The Met said it was "following every lead possible" to find the teenager; speaking with witnesses and examining CCTV.
Not about Sarah Everard, but a young black student has been missing for over a week now.
 

Pexbo

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I don't disagree. I'm sure they'll be no candle light vigils either.
If middle class white women are going to be subject to police violence for holding a candle lit vigil, I can’t imagine young black males are going to fare much better.
 

TheReligion

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If middle class white women are going to be subject to police violence for holding a candle lit vigil, I can’t imagine young black males are going to fare much better.
As I say I'd wager there won't be a candle lit vigil in this instance.
 

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To be fair, I've seen the same amount of coverage in my social media sphere for both. The Sarah Everard one totally exploded everywhere when it became known that a serving police officer did it.

Exactly. That sort of thing is massive news. What are the figures on people disappearing every year?
 

The Corinthian

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Exactly. That sort of thing is massive news. What are the figures on people disappearing every year?
The police are meant to be protectors not the psychopaths.
That's not strictly true.

The Sarah Everard case was fairly big before the suspect was known to be an officer.

There was quite an extensive social media awareness campaign to get the message out there that she's missing and asking people to come in with more information. The case obviously blew up when a police officer was arrested.

There hasn't been the same level of exposure as with Richard Okorogheye.
 

golden_blunder

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That's not strictly true.

The Sarah Everard case was fairly big before the suspect was known to be an officer.

There was quite an extensive social media awareness campaign to get the message out there that she's missing and asking people to come in with more information. The case obviously blew up when a police officer was arrested.

There hasn't been the same level of exposure as with Richard Okorogheye.
How come the ones that are missing for a week and turn up later are never on the news? One assumes a journo has done their job and worked out what’s gonna be big news.
 

unchanged_lineup

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That's not strictly true.

The Sarah Everard case was fairly big before the suspect was known to be an officer.

There was quite an extensive social media awareness campaign to get the message out there that she's missing and asking people to come in with more information. The case obviously blew up when a police officer was arrested.

There hasn't been the same level of exposure as with Richard Okorogheye.
What I'm saying though is that I've seen the same folks in my social media sharing it. Might be different from what you see, but it's looks about the same on mine to be honest.
 

langster

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How come the ones that are missing for a week and turn up later are never on the news? One assumes a journo has done their job and worked out what’s gonna be big news.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.de...ws/massive-search-missing-33-year-5237838.amp

A lad who is brother of a friend of mine, and someone himself who is a customer in my pub, has been missing for two weeks now and aside from the local rag and lots of Facebook posts, I don't think I've seen anything about it at all. It's not looking good, especially given some of the evidence etc, but still, just putting it in to perspective about coverage in the news. There must be thousands a week, hundreds at least that we never hear about.
 

The Corinthian

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How come the ones that are missing for a week and turn up later are never on the news? One assumes a journo has done their job and worked out what’s gonna be big news.
Sorry, not entirely following you here.

Are you saying a journo will know if a missing person will be found alive or not and report accordingly?
 

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.de...ws/massive-search-missing-33-year-5237838.amp

A lad who is brother of a friend of mine, and someone himself who is a customer in my pub, has been missing for two weeks now and aside from the local rag and lots of Facebook posts, I don't think I've seen anything about it at all. It's not looking good, especially given some of the evidence etc, but still, just putting it in to perspective about coverage in the news. There must be thousands a week, hundreds at least that we never hear about.
Sadly, when these end badly they invariably turn out to be suicides. Which are less newsworthy than a kidnap/murder as the public crave scare stories about bogey men. A mental health crisis just doesn’t tick the same boxes.