The mystery of Brazilian footballers

LawCharltonBest

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Anyone have any theories on why so many of them either never hit their potential, or decline so rapidly after hitting their peak?

Off the top of my head

Ronaldo, Robinho, Ronaldinho, Pato, Adriano, Kaka, would it be harsh to say Rivaldo? Anderson? There are probably more too.
 
Ronaldo is just harsh, even after injury, he still looked like one of the best in the world.
I'd say Ronaldinho is a little harsh too. Rivaldo shouldn't be there.

Kaka I think was an injury too? I may be wrong.
 
Don't think it's endemic amongst Brazilians really. Someone with more patience than me could probably do this with English, French, Italian, German and Spanish players.

Ronaldo was because he had a horrible injury in his early 20s.
 
francobaresi said:
Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Kaka and Rivaldo do not belong in that list
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The thread is about brazilian players who ''decline so rapidly after hitting their peak''.

In what way does Ronaldinho not belong on such a list?

It describes his career to a T, from the worlds best player to a shadow of himself within 2 years with no major injuries and shipped out of Barca at 28 when he should have been at his peak.

Kaka pretty much fits the bill as well. Though at least he had injuries.
 
I think there is definitely something in it and it does happen often

Either some are far too hyped when young and fail to live up to it, or the great ones don't seem to finish off their careers in a good way
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Ronaldo, Robinho, Ronaldinho, Pato, Adriano, Kaka, would it be harsh to say Rivaldo? Anderson? There are probably more too.
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Ronaldo - injury
Kaka - injury
Ronaldinho - lost motivation, hunger (literally & figuratively) & desire
Rivaldo - shouldn't be on the list
Anderson - just never developed or kicked on. Never had the mentality & desire to become a top footballer. Discipline.
Pato - maybe a bit overhyped to begin with and never kicked on? Don't know too much about his work ethic etc.
Robinho - still had/having a decent career, but never maintained those performance levels at the elite clubs. Though I also think he was a tad overhyped. Maybe he too, doesn't belong on this list.
Adriano - monster of a striker whose fall was probably worst of all. Ive heard mentally he was a bit fragile, & also some personal tragedy but don't know much about it.

In all, I don't think it's a Brazilian thing only, I think you'll find a few Argentinians who you could make the same list for etc - those nations are generally obsessed with hyping the next Pele/Maradona.

But I can imagine how difficult it must be to leave poverty in their home country (generalizing a bit here as I know Kaka was from a middle class family), find immense wealth, women etc overseas, & sort of have that discipline to stay focussed, motivated & grounded especially with the wrong advisers/influences around. I think there's too many variables in the end to pinpoint this to 1 region only. Brazil just happens to have a larger number of high profile imports to European football, compared to most other nations.
 
Ish84045 said:
Ronaldo - injury
Kaka - injury
Ronaldinho - lost motivation, hunger (literally & figuratively) & desire
Rivaldo - shouldn't be on the list
Anderson - just never developed or kicked on. Never had the mentality & desire to become a top footballer. Discipline.
Pato - maybe a bit overhyped to begin with and never kicked on? Don't know too much about his work ethic etc.
Robinho - still had/having a decent career, but never maintained those performance levels at the elite clubs. Though I also think he was a tad overhyped. Maybe he too, doesn't belong on this list.
Adriano - monster of a striker whose fall was probably worst of all. Ive heard mentally he was a bit fragile, & also some personal tragedy but don't know much about it.

In all, I don't think it's a Brazilian thing only, I think you'll find a few Argentinians who you could make the same list for etc - those nations are generally obsessed with hyping the next Pele/Maradona.

But I can imagine how difficult it must be to leave poverty in their home country (generalizing a bit here as I know Kaka was from a middle class family), find immense wealth, women etc overseas, & sort of have that discipline to stay focussed, motivated & grounded especially with the wrong advisers/influences around. I think there's too many variables in the end to pinpoint this to 1 region only. Brazil just happens to have a larger number of high profile imports to European football, compared to most other nations.
Click to expand...

Was going to type something very similar to this.
 
stevoc said:
The thread is about brazilian players who ''decline so rapidly after hitting their peak''.

In what way does Ronaldinho not belong on such a list?

It describes his career to a T, from the worlds best player to a shadow of himself within 2 years with no major injuries and shipped out of Barca at 28 when he should have been at his peak.

Kaka pretty much fits the bill as well. Though at least he had injuries.
Click to expand...
Maybe with Ronaldinho its related to the length of his career, he did start relatively young at a decent level. ? I remember him clearly in 1999 at the confeds cup. He was superb there and he has been playing at a decent level fo a long time. I think he holds some record as the only Brazilian player to have played for Brazil at every age level available.
Burn out came early because of how much he played from a young age?
 
Stack said:
Maybe with Ronaldinho its related to the length of his career, he did start relatively young at a decent level. ? I remember him clearly in 1999 at the confeds cup. He was superb there and he has been playing at a decent level fo a long time. I think he holds some record as the only Brazilian player to have played for Brazil at every age level available.
Burn out came early because of how much he played from a young age?
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Burn out's definitely one theory mate no doubt, personally i think he just lost interest and liked to party too much. Thats what the rumours were on why Barca let him go anyway.

It was sad to watch him in the last few years in europe he was such an amazing player in his early years at Barca, that i couldn't help but feel if he gave a shit he could have gotten close to that level again.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Anyone have any theories on why so many of them either never hit their potential, or decline so rapidly after hitting their peak?

Off the top of my head

Ronaldo, Robinho, Ronaldinho, Pato, Adriano, Kaka, would it be harsh to say Rivaldo? Anderson? There are probably more too.
Click to expand...

I would say one common denominator is that they all had great pace and acceleration. Which we know is an ability that can decline rapidly due to injuries. Kaka/Pato/Ronaldo all suffered injuries which in Kaka/Ronaldo's case definitely forced a decline. I don't watch enough Pato to say that his injuries has affected his pace.

I think out of that list only Ronaldinho and Adriano fit the bill of having that Brazilian mentality/motivation decline. Robinho was never better than he turned out to be, impressive in form and erratic and wasteful when he wasn't in form.
 
Annahnomoss said:
I would say one common denominator is that they all had great pace and acceleration. Which we know is an ability that can decline rapidly due to injuries. Kaka/Pato/Ronaldo all suffered injuries which in Kaka/Ronaldo's case definitely forced a decline. I don't watch enough Pato to say that his injuries has affected his pace.

I think out of that list only Ronaldinho and Adriano fit the bill of having that Brazilian mentality/motivation decline. Robinho was never better than he turned out to be, impressive in form and erratic and wasteful when he wasn't in form.
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Personally I thought Robinho was going to be very good while he was at Madrid. And the first part of his City career. He always impressed me. And never became as good as he threatened to be.
 
francobaresi said:
Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Kaka and Rivaldo do not belong in that list
Click to expand...

Ronaldinho absolutely does. He had three unforgettable years at Barca, and then for some unknown reason put on a bunch of body fat and underperformed before eventually being sold..... he did reach his peak, but he declined well before he turned 30. It's like if Messi declined now, just turning 28, and put on a stone or two of fat; you'd be mystified.
 
Within the space of less than a year at Barca (not pre-season)

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But odd to put World players of the year on an underachieving list. Like most players they struggled to maintain their best form for more than a few years.

Ronaldinho's deline was due to partying. He lost the hunger for success on the pitch. It happens to loads of players at some point but you just notice it more when it is the best player in the world.

Ronaldinho and Messi are the outliers here.
 
Ish84045 said:
Ronaldo - injury
Kaka - injury
Ronaldinho - lost motivation, hunger (literally & figuratively) & desire
Rivaldo - shouldn't be on the list
Anderson - just never developed or kicked on. Never had the mentality & desire to become a top footballer. Discipline.
Pato - maybe a bit overhyped to begin with and never kicked on? Don't know too much about his work ethic etc.
Robinho - still had/having a decent career, but never maintained those performance levels at the elite clubs. Though I also think he was a tad overhyped. Maybe he too, doesn't belong on this list.
Adriano - monster of a striker whose fall was probably worst of all. Ive heard mentally he was a bit fragile, & also some personal tragedy but don't know much about it.

In all, I don't think it's a Brazilian thing only, I think you'll find a few Argentinians who you could make the same list for etc - those nations are generally obsessed with hyping the next Pele/Maradona.

But I can imagine how difficult it must be to leave poverty in their home country (generalizing a bit here as I know Kaka was from a middle class family), find immense wealth, women etc overseas, & sort of have that discipline to stay focussed, motivated & grounded especially with the wrong advisers/influences around. I think there's too many variables in the end to pinpoint this to 1 region only. Brazil just happens to have a larger number of high profile imports to European football, compared to most other nations.
Click to expand...
I believe Adriano's dad died and he became severely depressed following that.
 
Adriano's father was an inspiration to him and is his main motivation to play football. His father loves watching him play, and whenever he is on the field he tries his best to make his father smile. However after his father passed away he lost his motivation and passion for football completely. He was drinking heavily and suffered from depression. He even once retired from football at the age of 27 because he fell out of love with the game.

It's saddening to see how one of the most powerful striker in recent times completely destroyed by an unfortunate tragedy.
 
Same thing can also be said about England to be completely fair. Players like Scott Parker Ashley Young Francis jeffers James Milner theo Walcott Tom huddlestone jake Livermore Steven caulker Aaron Lennon etc who were good at youth levels and even were given England caps have been nothing short of disappointing. It's not only for Brazilians. It's about countries where every up and coming footballer are put under the spotlight
 
That's because they "the next Pele/Zico/Falcao (insert Brazil legend name)" literally almost every youth prospect with decent talent they have produced over the years.
 
What's Ronaldo and Rivaldo doing on this list? I wouldn't have Dinho and Kaka here either.
 
Seems like a few folk are not reading the original post too well.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Anyone have any theories on why so many of them either never hit their potential, or decline so rapidly after hitting their peak?

Off the top of my head

Ronaldo, Robinho, Ronaldinho, Pato, Adriano, Kaka, would it be harsh to say Rivaldo? Anderson? There are probably more too.
Click to expand...

Take out Ronaldo and Rivaldo.

Kaká was primarily injuries, his "special trick" was his bursts of speed on the counter. His unplayability relied far too much on a physical trait which injuries can remove all too suddenly.

Robinho, Pato (not sure), Adriano, Anderson... temperament and poor education and backgrounds are a significant factor differentiating the monumental vcollapses you see in Braazilians from those you see in players who just don't reach their potential. It's quite a meteoric rise in fortunes for them all and you know what they say about the faster they rise...
 
Ronaldinho never considered football as a job, it was a game for him. Professional football was always going to kill his hunger, also like @Stack said he begun very young, if I'm not mistaken he was playing futsal at a high level too, like Ronaldo. Also Ronaldinho even with Mineiro was magnificent to see.
 
A lot of them probably broke through a lot earlier so had a lot of mileage on their bodies by the time they reached their mid 20s. See Michael Owen.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Anyone have any theories on why so many of them either never hit their potential, or decline so rapidly after hitting their peak?

Off the top of my head

Ronaldo, Robinho, Ronaldinho, Pato, Adriano, Kaka, would it be harsh to say Rivaldo? Anderson? There are probably more too.
Click to expand...

Ronaldo and Rivaldo? No.
 
A few of these hit their peak, the problem is they werent at their peak for too long (or as long as they should have been which is a shame).

Whilst injuries too a toll, id also say hunger and effort once some of them reached the top and willingness to remain there, especially when theres so much money, party life, women and other influences around them.
 
The main reasons have already been covered above. It's also evident that quite a number of Brazilians have suffered from unjustified hype the last ten years or so, just look a the state of their national team. A player like Kerlon comes to mind, others are Lucas Moura and Ganso if I recall correctly.
 
Welsh Wonder said:
I believe Adriano's dad died and he became severely depressed following that.
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Thanks WW. Yeah, it's understandable also factor in most of them being that far away from home/families etc.
2 Man Midfield said:
Was going to type something very similar to this.
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Yeah, there's just so many variables. I was just thinking about some of our African players with similar stories. Though most never reach "those" heights like some of the names brandied in the OP, discipline and attitude etc means their careers follow similar paths. There must be lots of names on that list as well.
 
What's far more interesting is why they can't produce any great talents anymore. Bar Neymar, their NT looks bang average and I don't know any great talents that I'd consider to be wc in the future.
 
Anderson18 said:
What's far more interesting is why they can't produce any great talents anymore. Bar Neymar, their NT looks bang average and I don't know any great talents that I'd consider to be wc in the future.
Click to expand...

Andreas Pereira :nervous:
 
I've read several times that it's a cultural thing.

For many young kids growing up in poverty football is their ticket to escape and wealth. Once they have achieved that they are satisfied. In comparison European players have different drivers - glory, awards, plaudits etc

I have no knowledge or strong opinion on this theory but I think there is some truth in it. And I don't think it's a bad thing either - it seems a healthier outlook than those driven by a narcissistic craving for status, recognition, awards and shiny trinkets.

I would speculate that these days it's the Brazilians that come from wealthy backgrounds that are more likely to reach the top of the game than those from the poorer areas.
 
Many of the Brazilian players come from a poor background. They spend their entire youth honing their skills in order to attract a top club. Once they sign with a big club, their night life and other stuff takes over, and their career goes backwards. Fat Ronaldo can be excused for some of his injuries, but players like Ronaldinho should never have declined so quickly. Way too many players to list here, but it's the same story when you look into it a little bit more.
 
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