The natural successor: Has Neymar blown it?

[King7Eric]

Neymar is easily one of the most talented players of this generation, behind only Messi in my estimation.

But he is not one of the world's best players. To be labelled the best, you need a lot of stars to align for you. You must be ridiculously talented, incredibly driven, consistently successful, largely injury free and must make good career decisions.

The likes of Messi and Ronaldo fulfill all these criteria and have the individual and team honours to prove it. Neymar is not only miles behind these two, but I'd say also behind the likes of Lewandowski and De Bruyne in recent years.

People are free to disagree, but Real and Barca signed Bale and Neymar respectively in 2013 with the hope that in 5 years time, instead of Ronaldo and Messi, these two would be contesting for the crown of the best player in the world. But in my estimation both have fallen well short despite having successful careers.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Best player in the world?! Not even close. Very good dribbler yes but lacking vision and intelligence of when to release the ball. Yesterday half of the time he got hacked was because he didn't release the ball at the right time. In the end it nearly cost them. Instead of passing to Marquinhos (when he scored) he went for a shot and luckily for Paris his missed shot went to Marquinhos for tap in. Also easily one of most dis-likeable active footballers. Come to think of it PSG team is full of those (Neymar, DiMaria, Veratti, Marquinhos...). Even the coach is unbearable.

Is this an analysis based on one game?

 

[mu4c_20le]

It almost feels like he's lost the hunger after moving to PSG. Like he's happy to put in 50% effort every week, then jet off home to party. It's a shame he doesn't have the mentality and drive of a Ronaldo, because we'll never see what he could've become.

 

[saivet]

Going to PSG made it more difficult for his legacy playing in Ligue 1, but his biggest issue has been staying fit at PSG. He's not managed more than 30 appearances in any of the 3 seasons he's been there. He's been good for them when he has played but to be recognised at that elite level with the likes of Messi and Ronaldo you have to play more.

 

[giorno]

Ball striking and heading is where Ronaldo has Neymar beat. They are different players so I don't get this whole 'can do things he cant' debate.

That was my point

 

[Zehner]

Best player in the world?! Not even close. Very good dribbler yes but lacking vision and intelligence of when to release the ball. Yesterday half of the time he got hacked was because he didn't release the ball at the right time. In the end it nearly cost them. Instead of passing to Marquinhos (when he scored) he went for a shot and luckily for Paris his missed shot went to Marquinhos for tap in. Also easily one of most dis-likeable active footballers. Come to think of it PSG team is full of those (Neymar, DiMaria, Veratti, Marquinhos...). Even the coach is unbearable.

It's actually quite funny. Everytime you read such a post you think "well, the guy either hasn't seen him play or he allows his antipathy to fool his judgement". Then you read the bolded part and think "ah, here we go again".

The cringe fest of Neymar fanvoys here is unbelievable. If it were up to them they'd have already handed over Ballon D'or to him.

Actually, no. Personally I would've given every Ballon D'Or since 2009 to Messi. Neymar would probably been second in the last 3 or 4 prizes.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I have no trouble letting my personal dislike of Neymar cloud my judgement. He's a poor man's Steven Bergwijn and a cnut. Perfect for Oil money FC.

 

[paraguayo]

Neymar is easily one of the most talented players of this generation, behind only Messi in my estimation.

But he is not one of the world's best players. To be labelled the best, you need a lot of stars to align for you. You must be ridiculously talented, incredibly driven, consistently successful, largely injury free and must make good career decisions.

The likes of Messi and Ronaldo fulfill all these criteria and have the individual and team honours to prove it. Neymar is not only miles behind these two, but I'd say also behind the likes of Lewandowski and De Bruyne in recent years.

People are free to disagree, but Real and Barca signed Bale and Neymar respectively in 2013 with the hope that in 5 years time, instead of Ronaldo and Messi, these two would be contesting for the crown of the best player in the world. But in my estimation both have fallen well short despite having successful careers.

Neymar has 70 goals and 40 assists in 82 PSG appearances, why do people talk like he's been failing since he moved there. He was injured in all CL exits

 

[King7Eric]

Neymar has 70 goals and 40 assists in 82 PSG appearances, why do people talk like he's been failing since he moved there. He was injured in all CL exits

You've answered your own question there. It's hard to qualify you as a success if you're always injured when your team needs you the most.

 

[Sayros]

Disagree. For a player of his quality Mbappe still has too many technical flaws and I don't think he'll get that sorted out, to be honest. Technical ability is usually something that doesn't improve much throughout the career of a player. Messi, Cristiano and Neymar were all better technicians than Mbappe is at the same age already. When PSG went out against United last season, that was painfully obvious. That's why I think that Mbappe will never contribute as much as Neymar does while their output is very much on par. Even if Mbappe surpassed Neymar in terms of end product, I'd take the Neymar package over the Mbappe one. Don't think he'll ever be as good as Neymar is currently.

What Cristiano has going for him that neither Mbappe nor Neymar achieved so far is his insane consistency. He maintained his level for almost a decade while Neymar - although I think his ceiling is higher - can't even maintain it throughout one season. Mainly because of injuries but still.

Whatever technical flaws you see in Mbappe are greatly exaggerated, he's one of the most skilled forwards in football right now, and I'm suggesting you simply haven't seen enough of him or you have a very skewed perception of what technique is in football. Also, it's completely false that technique doesn't improve throughout a career, it absolutely does, shooting, dribbling, passing, first touch, finishing, all of those skills improve over time. Mbappe now is already an improved version of where he was in 2017 when people back then already said he wasn't going to improve much, for whatever crazy reason.

As far as contribution, Mbappe has consistently been contributing at a higher level than Neymar, which could be excused due to Neymar's absence through injuries in previous seasons, but even in this season where he has been healthy (and Mbappe missed a month), Kylian is still ahead of him in G+A, but only one assist off Neymar who should be far ahead as the main man and playmaker of the team. Mbappe is a monster in production, for you to even insinuate he'd never contribute as much as Neymar is pretty crazy considering he was up there with Messi last season in production and this season was on pace to surpass it if the league didn't get cut short.

Now, I need to make this very clear, I do not think Mbappe is a better player than Neymar, I think Neymar's game as a whole is still superior and there's no better dribbler in football today, but it's overall not a big chasm like some are claiming, especially when you consider Mbappe is seven years younger than Neymar.

CR7 has had an incredible consistency, along with Messi, which is what has made them great, but Mbappe's only flaw in that regard is that he hasn't played for 10 years yet. He has been consistently one of the best forwards in Europe since he's become a starter at Monaco, and I have no doubts that if he remains healthy, he will have seasons that match the output of CR7 and Messi.

 

[matherto]

Neymar has 70 goals and 40 assists in 82 PSG appearances, why do people talk like he's been failing since he moved there. He was injured in all CL exits

You've answered your own question there. It's hard to qualify you as a success if you're always injured when your team needs you the most.

As King Eric says, it's all well and good stat padding (and they should really be better given the difference between PSG and the rest of France) in Ligue 1 but he's never there when PSG actually need him (at least, not until last night) in the only important matches they get a season.

 

[Calidad]

Uncharacteristically wayward finishing aside, I thought he was excellent yesterday. His build-up play and reading of the game is up there with the best in the game currently.

 

[Ole'sattheWheel]

I always think a good question to ask in this situation is "out of the two in their prime, who would you have least wanted to see playing for the dippers?"
Usually gives a good solid answer on who they think is a better player. But the ex-United bias that comes into play with CR7 makes this question abit more difficult. Which also may be an indication of how the United bias is effecting this current debate.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Best player in the world?! Not even close. Very good dribbler yes but lacking vision and intelligence of when to release the ball. Yesterday half of the time he got hacked was because he didn't release the ball at the right time. In the end it nearly cost them. Instead of passing to Marquinhos (when he scored) he went for a shot and luckily for Paris his missed shot went to Marquinhos for tap in. Also easily one of most dis-likeable active footballers. Come to think of it PSG team is full of those (Neymar, DiMaria, Veratti, Marquinhos...). Even the coach is unbearable.

Hahahahaha

lacks vision and intelligence. My god.

how can be people be such bad judges ?

 

[JPRouve]

Hahahahaha

lacks vision and intelligence. My god.

how can be people be such bad judges ?

By not watching football but still commenting. Not only Neymar has great vision but unlike many top players, he has no issue passing the ball to someone he deems better positioned in particular if that someone is Mbappé or Messi.

 

[Zehner]

Whatever technical flaws you see in Mbappe are greatly exaggerated, he's one of the most skilled forwards in football right now, and I'm suggesting you simply haven't seen enough of him or you have a very skewed perception of what technique is in football. Also, it's completely false that technique doesn't improve throughout a career, it absolutely does, shooting, dribbling, passing, first touch, finishing, all of those skills improve over time. Mbappe now is already an improved version of where he was in 2017 when people back then already said he wasn't going to improve much, for whatever crazy reason.

As far as contribution, Mbappe has consistently been contributing at a higher level than Neymar, which could be excused due to Neymar's absence through injuries in previous seasons, but even in this season where he has been healthy (and Mbappe missed a month), Kylian is still ahead of him in G+A, but only one assist off Neymar who should be far ahead as the main man and playmaker of the team. Mbappe is a monster in production, for you to even insinuate he'd never contribute as much as Neymar is pretty crazy considering he was up there with Messi last season in production and this season was on pace to surpass it if the league didn't get cut short.

Now, I need to make this very clear, I do not think Mbappe is a better player than Neymar, I think Neymar's game as a whole is still superior and there's no better dribbler in football today, but it's overall not a big chasm like some are claiming, especially when you consider Mbappe is seven years younger than Neymar.

CR7 has had an incredible consistency, along with Messi, which is what has made them great, but Mbappe's only flaw in that regard is that he hasn't played for 10 years yet. He has been consistently one of the best forwards in Europe since he's become a starter at Monaco, and I have no doubts that if he remains healthy, he will have seasons that match the output of CR7 and Messi.

Think we have a different definition of 'contribution'. What I meant was that Neymar is the one dropping deep and initiating attacks, creating superiorities through his dribbles, one twos and through balls. He's significantly ahead of Mbappe in this regard which is no shame given that Neymar is second only to Messi in this discipline.

Mbappe always had end product. For me the discussion is a little bit like a lite version of the Messi vs Cristiano one. As long as Neymar is the superior contributor - and I really don't see that changing in the future - and Mbappe's output doesn't blow Neymar's out of the water, I'll go with the Brazilian.

Regarding the technique part: There are different aspects of technique. Technique in the meaning of doing routine things correctly 100/100 times and then there's also the spectacular skill moves etc. Mbappe is great at the latter but IMO he's average at the former. I've seen many bad touches for him that would never happen to Neymar or Messi. Exemplarily when he forgot the ball after breaking through against United last year. Yesterday he also screwed up a bad chance because of a bad touch in between, by the way.

So yeah, great talent but I think it's more a case ofnveing mature very early than having an incredibly high ceiling. I also struggle to see the great development compared to the Mbappe of two years ago, to be honest. Do youbthink he's better than the Mbappe that played the WC 2018?and if so, in which areas?

 

[MrEleson]

If he dominates the world cup, probably?

Such as...? Being great in the air? Mbappé is also better than Neymar at it. Moving off the ball? Ditto. What else? Scoring in general? Which Mbappé is also already better at than Neymar

He’s better at him from shooting from long range with both feet. Like that goal last week, very few players are dangerous from that position with either foot and with players in front of them. Mbappe hasn’t shown anything to suggest he’s better than Neymar in the air. Even so, the difference isn’t so stark for it to be an advantage for him like it would be for Ronaldo.

Goalscoring; it’s debatable between neymar and mbappe as they play different roles. Neymar has shown his pedigree as a goalscorer for Barcelona in a much tougher la liga when he scored 39 goals at 22-23 years old in all comps. Pretty sure he registered over 20 goals in 3/4 of his 5 seasons at Barca too. His main job for PSG is more to create than be a sole scorer. Mbappe has more pace so he’ll get on the end of more chances but I’ve seen him miss similar gilt edge chances like Neymar did yesterday in a similar scenario (against Utd last season)

 

[fps]

Well last night what happened was Atalanta lost a player to injury with the team out on their feet and Mbappe made all the difference, Neymar having looked very skilful but missed several good chances badly.

 

[Infordin]

The biggest difference between Dinho and Neymar was that Dinho in his prime (2003-2006) had a much stronger build and was significantly more resilient to defenders kicking him than Neymar.

Neymar is more rapid but his skinny physique makes him fragile.

 

[VBI]

Going to PSG made it more difficult for his legacy playing in Ligue 1, but his biggest issue has been staying fit at PSG. He's not managed more than 30 appearances in any of the 3 seasons he's been there. He's been good for them when he has played but to be recognised at that elite level with the likes of Messi and Ronaldo you have to play more.

It's probably a real factor, Messi and Ronaldo are generally playing around 44-52 club fixtures a season, year in year out. Neymar hasn't passed 30 club games in a PSG season yet, but at Barca he passed 40 every single year with his lowest being his first with 41 and his highest being 51. Not just the not playing, but not being able to really get into a groove when the business end of a season turns round. I think Neymar has missed at least two cup finals at PSG due to physical problems.

 

[Sayros]

Think we have a different definition of 'contribution'. What I meant was that Neymar is the one dropping deep and initiating attacks, creating superiorities through his dribbles, one twos and through balls. He's significantly ahead of Mbappe in this regard which is no shame given that Neymar is second only to Messi in this discipline.

Mbappe always had end product. For me the discussion is a little bit like a lite version of the Messi vs Cristiano one. As long as Neymar is the superior contributor - and I really don't see that changing in the future - and Mbappe's output doesn't blow Neymar's out of the water, I'll go with the Brazilian.

Regarding the technique part: There are different aspects of technique. Technique in the meaning of doing routine things correctly 100/100 times and then there's also the spectacular skill moves etc. Mbappe is great at the latter but IMO he's average at the former. I've seen many bad touches for him that would never happen to Neymar or Messi. Exemplarily when he forgot the ball after breaking through against United last year. Yesterday he also screwed up a bad chance because of a bad touch in between, by the way.

So yeah, great talent but I think it's more a case ofnveing mature very early than having an incredibly high ceiling. I also struggle to see the great development compared to the Mbappe of two years ago, to be honest. Do youbthink he's better than the Mbappe that played the WC 2018?and if so, in which areas?

So we have different definitions of technique and contributions? This is going to be complicated!

Well Neymar's very role is that of the playmaker, so he's going to find himself involved more in those situations and he is maybe the best in the world at it, and while Mbappe is a very creative player in his own right and thrives in those situations, his role is to be on the end of it more than initiating them.

He's definitely better today than during that WC. His first touch, movement, vision, and especially his range of finishing has gone up a level since then, physically he's also stronger, or at least knows how to use his body better with his pace, and his consistency is at an elite level now. After settling in his first season at PSG (which was that world cup year), he's taken his game to a new level and his production along with it. He was only trailing Messi last year for the golden boot (and would have gotten it had he not stupidly gotten sent off for 2-3 games, or if he took penalties), and the following year (this season), he was at 30 goals and 17 assists in half of a season, basically on pace to do even better than last season (despite missing a month of action).

You seem to isolate two bad touches, and try to claim you've never seen Messi or Neymar have those simple bad touches, which I'd say is a classic case of selective memory. I've seen every player out there, even Zidane, have bad touches, or screw up simple moves, we just tend to forget them and remember the greatness, and it's usually something you apply to players after years of being impressed and delighted by them, but let's not try and pretend Neymar or Messi never screwed up a simple touch, etc, they are humans after all (despite Messi's evidence to the contrary at times). Again, I think Neymar is the better player, but the difference between the two in output is not very big, and I suspect Mbappe will be a better player than Neymar and have accomplished more by the time he's his age in seven years.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Neymar is only behind Messi in terms of attacking ability and if I were to take either one of them it would be Neymar. He's the best dribbler in one vs ones situations at the moment. Last night his finishing was lacklustre probably because of the long lay off he's had from football. He would be the perfect player for Manchester City.

I think Pep would prefer Neymar over Messi at the moment too(but he'd likely never admit it).

 

[Oly Francis]

Lord i'm reading this thread and i don't understand why people comment about a player without watching the games or knowing what they're talking about. Neymar is hands down the best player at PSG and his playmaking abilities or vision are ridiculously underrated. Nobody can pass from both feet like he does, he can do pretty much everything (except header even if he actually scored one against Dortmund). Very very sad read.

 

[Zehner]

So we have different definitions of technique and contributions? This is going to be complicated!

Well Neymar's very role is that of the playmaker, so he's going to find himself involved more in those situations and he is maybe the best in the world at it, and while Mbappe is a very creative player in his own right and thrives in those situations, his role is to be on the end of it more than initiating them.

He's definitely better today than during that WC. His first touch, movement, vision, and especially his range of finishing has gone up a level since then, physically he's also stronger, or at least knows how to use his body better with his pace, and his consistency is at an elite level now. After settling in his first season at PSG (which was that world cup year), he's taken his game to a new level and his production along with it. He was only trailing Messi last year for the golden boot (and would have gotten it had he not stupidly gotten sent off for 2-3 games, or if he took penalties), and the following year (this season), he was at 30 goals and 17 assists in half of a season, basically on pace to do even better than last season (despite missing a month of action).

You seem to isolate two bad touches, and try to claim you've never seen Messi or Neymar have those simple bad touches, which I'd say is a classic case of selective memory. I've seen every player out there, even Zidane, have bad touches, or screw up simple moves, we just tend to forget them and remember the greatness, and it's usually something you apply to players after years of being impressed and delighted by them, but let's not try and pretend Neymar or Messi never screwed up a simple touch, etc, they are humans after all (despite Messi's evidence to the contrary at times). Again, I think Neymar is the better player, but the difference between the two in output is not very big, and I suspect Mbappe will be a better player than Neymar and have accomplished more by the time he's his age in seven years.

Those two touches were just examples, I've seen Mbappe a lot of times and it never occurred to me that he's good in tight spaces and always had some inconsistencies in his technique. The two occasions I mentioned were just the first to come to my mind. Mbappe is a little bit like Dembele in that regard, both sometimes show outrageous skill on the ball but when it comes to getting the easy things right, they aren't as good. An example of that by the way is the famous pass Mbappe made against Belgium. He can pull off such stuff but in the next sequence, he can also be a little bit clunky. You don't see that from Messi or Neymar, IMO. They can have bad games, make bad decisions, but their technique is always on point. And while I've seen them screwing up a touch very rarely, I've never witnessed them forgetting a ball at full speed. With Mbappe on the other hand I often have the feeling that he's a little bit too quick for the ball or kicks it a little bit too far. Take exemplary the first chance of Neymar against Atalanta, after the goal kick. Those were 4 or 5 perfect touches that had the perfect length. Because of such things I believe that both players are simply better technicians than Mbappe - and they already were as good as they are now at the age Mbappe is in now. Hazard by the way, too, although he lacks the end product of Mbappe. That's obviously criticism on a very, very high level since Mbappe is one of a kind but since he's compared to one of the best players in history already, that's just the standard he has to prove if you ask me.

Anyway, bit pointless to discuss this now. I'll mention you the next time I notice such stuff from Kylian


Edit:

Here's a highlight video of the game against Manchester I mentioned. I think that sums up pretty well what I mean. His off the ball movement is phenomenal, he had many good plays but also 3-4 technical mistakes that left the viewers scratching their heads. I've never seen such stuff happen to Messi or Neymar, very very rarely to Cristiano in such a density.

 

[sokol11]

Is this an analysis based on one game?

Watched quite a few his games for club and country. I saw I ruffled a few feathers with my post.
Everybody can have his opinion on a player and mine is that elite dribbling that Neymar possesses doesn't outweigh his negatives. Based on that I think he is not even close to Ronaldo and Messi. Also if I would have to pick an attacker outside of the top two players I would take quite a few ahead of him that would improve a team more than him.

Someone asked to who he should pass? If you dribble all the time people around you will stop making runs and get themselves available as they don't expect to get a ball from you.

Simply put for all his dribbling in the last game if Mbappe wouldn't come on the pitch they probably would be eliminated. And for all complaining Mbappe can only dream of the skills with the ball that Neymar possesses it goes both ways. Neymar can only dream of understanding of football that Mbappe possesses. If he would release ball early enough he would get fouled a lot less, he would receive ball back with less players around him and his effectiveness would improve. But unfortunately he is to focused on dribbling sometimes very far away from goal just for the sake of beating a man.

Let's see it they win the whole thing. I don't think they will. If he is in Ronaldo and Messi territory then he will inspire his team to win CL this year no?

 

[Zehner]

Watched quite a few his games for club and country. I saw I ruffled a few feathers with my post.
Everybody can have his opinion on a player and mine is that elite dribbling that Neymar possesses doesn't outweigh his negatives. Based on that I think he is not even close to Ronaldo and Messi. Also if I would have to pick an attacker outside of the top two players I would take quite a few ahead of him that would improve a team more than him.

Someone asked to who he should pass? If you dribble all the time people around you will stop making runs and get themselves available as they don't expect to get a ball from you.

Simply put for all his dribbling in the last game if Mbappe wouldn't come on the pitch they probably would be eliminated. And for all complaining Mbappe can only dream of the skills with the ball that Neymar possesses it goes both ways. Neymar can only dream of understanding of football that Mbappe possesses. If he would release ball early enough he would get fouled a lot less, he would receive ball back with less players around him and his effectiveness would improve. But unfortunately he is to focused on dribbling sometimes very far away from goal just for the sake of beating a man.

Let's see it they win the whole thing. I don't think they will. If he is in Ronaldo and Messi territory then he will inspire his team to win CL this year no?

To each their own and stuff but I'm sorry, this is just so much nonsense. Neymar was instrumental in both goals, far more instrumental than Mbappe. PSG also had multiple chances in the first half, most of those were also created by Neymar while Mbappe was sitting on the bench. His finishing was off, that was the one thing you can criticize him for. His decision making isn't as good as Messi's, true, so he sometimes dribbles in the wrong situations but in the majority of time, what he does is exactly the right thing to do with his abilities.

And no, if he is in Ronaldo/Messi territory he will not inspire his team to win the CL necessarily since both players couldn't do so for the majority of their career either. CL is luck for a good proportion. You can't force it, even if you're the best team (which PSG probably isn't to begin with).

I'm honestly baffled that anyone could think Mbappe was more instrumental than Neymar in PSG going through, though. Can't explain that at all. Maybe you should re-watch the game.

 

[mshnsh]

His finishing has always been off, his creativity is absurd and the way he can dribble through players plus his speed are up there with the best players in history. If he could finish his chances like Leo, he probably would be considered his equal.

The difference between Messi and Neymar is not just that Messi is a better finisher but that Messi is far more likely to make the right decision, is more likely to spot and execute a higher quality final pass and Messi's dribbling is easily more purposeful and more likely to lead to creation of a chance or to himself scoring.

Messi has therefore always been easily the superior footballer even if not as flashy as Neymar. Right now though, Messi is not as explosive as he once was.

 

[Stacks]

We need to create a "the disrespect of Neymar" thread
https://talksport.com/football/745090/overrated-neymar-liverpool-man-united-cundy-psg-messi-ronaldo/

 

[Sayros]

Those two touches were just examples, I've seen Mbappe a lot of times and it never occurred to me that he's good in tight spaces and always had some inconsistencies in his technique. The two occasions I mentioned were just the first to come to my mind. Mbappe is a little bit like Dembele in that regard, both sometimes show outrageous skill on the ball but when it comes to getting the easy things right, they aren't as good. An example of that by the way is the famous pass Mbappe made against Belgium. He can pull off such stuff but in the next sequence, he can also be a little bit clunky. You don't see that from Messi or Neymar, IMO. They can have bad games, make bad decisions, but their technique is always on point. And while I've seen them screwing up a touch very rarely, I've never witnessed them forgetting a ball at full speed. With Mbappe on the other hand I often have the feeling that he's a little bit too quick for the ball or kicks it a little bit too far. Take exemplary the first chance of Neymar against Atalanta, after the goal kick. Those were 4 or 5 perfect touches that had the perfect length. Because of such things I believe that both players are simply better technicians than Mbappe - and they already were as good as they are now at the age Mbappe is in now. Hazard by the way, too, although he lacks the end product of Mbappe. That's obviously criticism on a very, very high level since Mbappe is one of a kind but since he's compared to one of the best players in history already, that's just the standard he has to prove if you ask me.

Anyway, bit pointless to discuss this now. I'll mention you the next time I notice such stuff from Kylian


Edit:

Here's a highlight video of the game against Manchester I mentioned. I think that sums up pretty well what I mean. His off the ball movement is phenomenal, he had many good plays but also 3-4 technical mistakes that left the viewers scratching their heads. I've never seen such stuff happen to Messi or Neymar, very very rarely to Cristiano in such a density.

I know you're going to show the United game, because that's really the only example in 4-5 years I can think of such an instance where he loses the ball on his own with no interference, something I've seen Neymar/Hazard do themselves at different points in their long career (I'm sure Messi has as well but I can't remember for sure), it's going to happen to everybody at some point. I don't think Mbappe is on the level of those three when it comes to pure dribbling, but I'd argue none of them have his ability to run with the ball at such speeds while keeping control of it, or have his ability to create space for themselves off the ball in the same way. I completely disagree with your point about how he's too quick for the ball, it's very rare that he loses control of it even at the highest of speeds. His run against Argentina is just one of many examples of what makes him special with the ball at his feet in full speed.

But I get it, Mbappe is an all-time great prospect so he should be judged against the highest standards but I feel you're nitpicking a bit too much when the truth is that there's plenty of ways to skin a cat, and while Mbappe might not have the silky dribbling of a Neymar/Hazard/Messi/Martial (), he's got plenty of skills to get past his man and I feel he's already better at 21 than Hazard and will surpass Neymar when it's all said and done. Martial and Messi might be another story.

Anyways, we can agree to disagree on any of these points. Ultimately, I think it's silly for people to put Mbappe as more important or better than Neymar already, but that's just the standard disrespect that Neymar has to go through, and not to be too cliche, but the best ability is availability and Neymar's been lacking in that aspect, hence why some are acting like they forgot how great of a player he can be. Neymar needed Mbappe to come on to get this team to win, because he can't do it on his own, no one can, but if Mbappe was on his own out there without Neymar, it's hard to say he would have done any better without service as there was no one else on the team but Neymar trying to create something for the first 60 minutes of the game. I was most disappointed by Sarabia, I expected far more from him as he impressed me at times during the season. I think we will look back on the time they've played together and regret they didn't get to have more time in big games together, because these are two all-time greats-in-the-making, one of them in his prime, playing and enjoying the game together. I hope they win it all.

 

[Ecstatic]

Neymar is easily one of the most talented players of this generation, behind only Messi in my estimation.

But he is not one of the world's best players. To be labelled the best, you need a lot of stars to align for you. You must be ridiculously talented, incredibly driven, consistently successful, largely injury free and must make good career decisions.

The likes of Messi and Ronaldo fulfill all these criteria and have the individual and team honours to prove it. Neymar is not only miles behind these two, but I'd say also behind the likes of Lewandowski and De Bruyne in recent years.

People are free to disagree, but Real and Barca signed Bale and Neymar respectively in 2013 with the hope that in 5 years time, instead of Ronaldo and Messi, these two would be contesting for the crown of the best player in the world. But in my estimation both have fallen well short despite having successful careers.

Bitterness from a Barcelona fan at his finest

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

This forum has a weird obsession of hating him. He's ridiculously talented and right now he's the best player in the world.

Right now. You mean based on the game two days ago.

It’s not about hating him, he doesn’t have to do it week on week out at PSG, he’s on auto pilot for 90% of the time.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

If Neymar wins a world Cup with Brazil would this put him up there with Messi and Ronaldo?

Of course not. People are obsessed with team trophies defining individual players. I'd rather watch footballers over a decade to rationally know where they stand rather than dumbing it down into moments and a focus only on glory

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Right now. You mean based on the game two days ago.

It’s not about hating him, he doesn’t have to do it week on week out at PSG, he’s on auto pilot for 90% of the time.

No, this has been going on for quite a while. People simply not rating him since he joined PSG yet praise Mbappe like he's the second coming of Pele despite the same flaw and spending his crucial development years in the same league.

 

[King7Eric]

Bitterness from a Barcelona fan at his finest

Mate I'm a Utd fan. It's my location that's listed as Barcelona, though now I ought to change even that as I'm no longer there.

 

[Oly Francis]

Right now. You mean based on the game two days ago.

It’s not about hating him, he doesn’t have to do it week on week out at PSG, he’s on auto pilot for 90% of the time.

It's a clever attempt to cover the fact that you don't watch the games. You do realize that even in top leagues theres usually 3-4 very good teams, the rest is subpar. PL is an exception but i don't remember anyone saying "Messi is on auto pilot for 80% of the time".

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It's a clever attempt to cover the fact that you don't watch the games. You do realize that even in top leagues theres usually 3-4 very good teams, the rest is subpar. PL is an exception but i don't remember anyone saying "Messi is on auto pilot for 80% of the time".

The french league is poor. At least in Spain you have a handful a good teams, same with Italy, although many would be considered sleeping giants. It’s about as competitive as Scotland, actually Scotland would be more competitive.

It’s a foregone conclusion PSG will win the league next year.

 

[TsuWave]

so it's between him and Lewandowski for best in the world right now huh

 

[Oly Francis]

We need to create a "the disrespect of Neymar" thread
https://talksport.com/football/745090/overrated-neymar-liverpool-man-united-cundy-psg-messi-ronaldo/

This is pathetic.

 

[jdotman]

I know you're going to show the United game, because that's really the only example in 4-5 years I can think of such an instance where he loses the ball on his own with no interference, something I've seen Neymar/Hazard do themselves at different points in their long career (I'm sure Messi has as well but I can't remember for sure), it's going to happen to everybody at some point. I don't think Mbappe is on the level of those three when it comes to pure dribbling, but I'd argue none of them have his ability to run with the ball at such speeds while keeping control of it, or have his ability to create space for themselves off the ball in the same way. I completely disagree with your point about how he's too quick for the ball, it's very rare that he loses control of it even at the highest of speeds. His run against Argentina is just one of many examples of what makes him special with the ball at his feet in full speed.

But I get it, Mbappe is an all-time great prospect so he should be judged against the highest standards but I feel you're nitpicking a bit too much when the truth is that there's plenty of ways to skin a cat, and while Mbappe might not have the silky dribbling of a Neymar/Hazard/Messi/Martial (), he's got plenty of skills to get past his man and I feel he's already better at 21 than Hazard and will surpass Neymar when it's all said and done. Martial and Messi might be another story.

Anyways, we can agree to disagree on any of these points. Ultimately, I think it's silly for people to put Mbappe as more important or better than Neymar already, but that's just the standard disrespect that Neymar has to go through, and not to be too cliche, but the best ability is availability and Neymar's been lacking in that aspect, hence why some are acting like they forgot how great of a player he can be. Neymar needed Mbappe to come on to get this team to win, because he can't do it on his own, no one can, but if Mbappe was on his own out there without Neymar, it's hard to say he would have done any better without service as there was no one else on the team but Neymar trying to create something for the first 60 minutes of the game. I was most disappointed by Sarabia, I expected far more from him as he impressed me at times during the season. I think we will look back on the time they've played together and regret they didn't get to have more time in big games together, because these are two all-time greats-in-the-making, one of them in his prime, playing and enjoying the game together. I hope they win it all.

One thing you didn't mention that I believe is a big contributing factor to a players career is mentality. Some people dont like Mbappe for it but I believe its very necessary to have that selfish arrogance about you to want to be the best. I dont have a doubt in my mind that Mbappe is fully committed to becoming the best player of his generation. Neymar is a more talented player but I cant say he has shown that sort of dedication throughout his career. That weird stat about him always being either injured or suspended around the birthday of his sister isnt a coincidence if you ask me. Its a funny thing to bring up but its an example of Neymar not doing all it takes to prove he is the best player in the world, and this is quite a common narrative for brazilian players also to be immensely talented but just dont have the same drive other players at the top level usually have. I dont think Mbappe would ever do something like that and its that Cristiano-esque dedication to being the best that I think will lead to him eventually having a more successful career than Neymar.

 

[Oly Francis]

One thing you didn't mention that I believe is a big contributing factor to a players career is mentality. Some people dont like Mbappe for it but I believe its very necessary to have that selfish arrogance about you to want to be the best. I dont have a doubt in my mind that Mbappe is fully committed to becoming the best player of his generation. Neymar is a more talented player but I cant say he has shown that sort of dedication throughout his career. That weird stat about him always being either injured or suspended around the birthday of his sister isnt a coincidence if you ask me. Its a funny thing to bring up but its an example of Neymar not doing all it takes to prove he is the best player in the world, and this is quite a common narrative for brazilian players also to be immensely talented but just dont have the same drive other players at the top level usually have. I dont think Mbappe would ever do something like that and its that Cristiano-esque dedication to being the best that I think will lead to him eventually having a more successful career than Neymar.

Even if he didn't really do the bday thing since he's at PSG, I agree with you, he's not as hardworking as a Cristiano.

But the thing is, you can't really know what would happen with these brazilian players without the fun/over the top partying behaviour. Most say that Ronnie or R9 wouldn't have reached the same kind of genious without it. That's just the way they are.