You could say that but I think that it's pure snobbery from a part of the football fanbase. Players like Lewandowski and Insigne have suffered from the same phenomenon where a player that isn't playing for one of Barcelona, Real Madrid or the in form PL clubs is automatically downgraded or ignored.
The natural successor: Has Neymar blown it?
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Clearly people don't actually watch Neymar play in this thread - the under rating of him is staggering.
His figures in Spain were frighteningly good, his figures in France are just as good.
His figures in Spain were frighteningly good, his figures in France are just as good.
The case with PSG is unique though, isn't it? At the time they were snapping up all the elite talent and composing a team that had no reason not to be challenging for the CL, people had a wait and see attitude, which has diminished over time with their subsequent showings and with that, the past perspective is being retrospectively rewritten.
I think there is a casual dismissal of the non-'elite' leagues, for sure, but any thoughts regarding that are compounded or shut down by the showing of a team from those leagues in the CL.
I don't think so. PSG haven't snapped all the elite talent and their team has never been one guaranteed to challenge for the CL because they generally lacked depth and have never had a first eleven fully made of elite players. They also always face a strong team at the exception of last year with United and had some bad luck with injuries around February-March, last year they had to start Choupo-Moting. In some way PSG are comparable to Inter in the 2000s when it comes to their CL recent history, a strong team when healthy but not one of the favorite. I'm pretty sure that in the last two years Neymar would have made a massive difference in the knockout stages but he broke his foot and had a relapse.
In my opinion, not playing for one of the current flashy clubs(City, Liverpool, Barça and Real) and being in Ligue 1, Serie A or Bundesliga means that people will either overlook or underrate a player.
Simply put magical player one of the best of the last 15 years but he needs to put in a few more big game performances for him to actually be down as a "great".
It would be a real shame and poor use of his ability if he isn't able to influence top level football for the rest of the time he has at the top.
It would be a real shame and poor use of his ability if he isn't able to influence top level football for the rest of the time he has at the top.
They took the two literal hottest available properties in the world in succession for, what, €367,000,000? And added that to Cavani for what was unarguably one of the best strikeforces in the world, on paper, at least. Verratti, Thaigo Silva Marquinhos (rated higher then than now), Di Maria supplemented with Motta, Alves... you're not going to sit here with a straight face saying that team were not expected to do great things, are you?
The whole point of assembling what they did was to take on all-comers irrespective of when they faced them. In hindsight, it hasn't worked out, but the prevailing thought then wasn't that this was a quarter-final level side - if not par with those expected to win it, then certainly not far off, at all.
Not sure about your last paragraph, as you're entitled to your opinion, but I think a player like Neymar needs the majors and the CL far more than the league, whichever that is because he has always been touted as one who will be an all-timer and all the rest of it - glitz and glory on the grandest stages. If PSG had've won the CL once or twice during his time there, the status of the league would have been elevated... imo, at the very least, being in Ligue Un wouldn't have been held against him.
I thought that you were talking about pre Neymar otherwise I don't really follow your point since Neymar was out two straight years during the knockout stages and Cavani was out last season. Alves was a shadow of his former self and Motta was on his last leg and retired in 2018. Thiago Silva is back in form but was underwhelming for a couple of seasons. This team wasn't expected to do great things because everyone in France was questioning their fullback and center midfield options, last season one of them was ostracized by their future ex DOF. The only way to think that they were destined for great things would be to not know the team at all.
The pre Neymar team was better with prime Motta, Matuidi and Verratti in midfield, their left side was great but their right side very average with mainly Jallet/Aurier and Lucas Moura as options. That team played at a high level against very good teams but lost to the likes of Barcelona, City, Chelsea and Real Madrid.
I believe Neymar to be a more talented player than Mbappe. His passing and long distance shooting are better than anything Mbappe can pull off and he’s not bad in front of goal either. Injuries have plagued him badly however and his attitude has hardly endeared himself to anyone in football.
Mbappe is more a poster boy for PSG now. I actually think another player like Sancho might become the ‘actual’ next best player in the world since he’s got more to his game than Mbappe on the ball.
It will be close and a bit like the 90’s not many say Ronaldo was better than Zidane these days. At the time though he was the phenomenon and the most marketable player. Mbappe needs to stay away from injuries obviously with his style.
Mbappe is more a poster boy for PSG now. I actually think another player like Sancho might become the ‘actual’ next best player in the world since he’s got more to his game than Mbappe on the ball.
It will be close and a bit like the 90’s not many say Ronaldo was better than Zidane these days. At the time though he was the phenomenon and the most marketable player. Mbappe needs to stay away from injuries obviously with his style.
I did point out 'at the time,' as in initial expectation of what he could do and what was to be expected from that side. And subsequently, his injuries have led to him missing out on the majors etc, which has done more harm to him than the league he's playing in as far as perception is concerned. It's a conflation of things by now as far as Neymar and his legacy is concerned, I think. I don't think it's football snobbery, per se, that is the overbearing reason why he's seen as he is now.
I'm sorry but that's not true, you just have to look at this thread and previous ones, people are more focused on "he is playing in the farmer league" than anything else, some even admit that they don't watch PSG at all but still have an opinion on how he performs for PSG. And I didn't limit it to the league but also the club, players are rated differently depending on the club they are playing for and how the press talk about these clubs. In this thread we have people rewritting Neymar's history at Barcelona and ignoring his great performances in CL.
AIso mentioned Lewandowski because earlier in the season many people were downplaying his goalscoring record in Bundesliga, some went as far as to claim that he never performed in big CL games which is wrong.
There is clearly something going on and it has nothing to do with injuries or missing out on the majors.
When he plays he’s a world class player without a doubt. His image, the way he acts and the fact he plays in a lesser league all seem to skew opinions of him a bit too much.
He’s been injured too often and at the wrong times in recent years as well, but he’s still the best player at PSG, despite Mbappe being the one getting all the hype and praise. Saying he never reached the level of Messi and Ronaldo is hardly an insult. You could count every player who has ever reached that level on one hand.
He’s been injured too often and at the wrong times in recent years as well, but he’s still the best player at PSG, despite Mbappe being the one getting all the hype and praise. Saying he never reached the level of Messi and Ronaldo is hardly an insult. You could count every player who has ever reached that level on one hand.
Andreas Iniesta says hi
He shouldn't be lower rated because he plays for PSG. The club game is so skewed in all of the top leagues that they all follow the same pattern of big clubs coasting to 90+ points as they plough over the top of the rest of the league barely breaking sweat. The only difference is you occasionally have a a title challenge in Spain or England, but 75% of games for these clubs are still relatively routine. Or to give examples, Neymar scoring and assisting three goals against mid-table St Etienne or Monaco is little different to Cristiano doing the same against Verona, Messi against Mallorca or Salah against Bournemouth.
Like others have said though, he does need to deliver at the business end of a Champions League for PSG and boss a World Cup to make good on his talent. He's been unfortunate with injuries, doubly so because they were challenges outwith his control in the 2014 World Cup and then the broken toe in 2017/18 that scuppered his sharpness in Russia and PSG's chances in Europe.
Like others have said though, he does need to deliver at the business end of a Champions League for PSG and boss a World Cup to make good on his talent. He's been unfortunate with injuries, doubly so because they were challenges outwith his control in the 2014 World Cup and then the broken toe in 2017/18 that scuppered his sharpness in Russia and PSG's chances in Europe.
He hasn't shared the light with Messi though, Xavi is the only one that is arguably seen as the best in his position, Iniesta for most is an inferior player to Xavi.Andreas Iniesta says hi
Both GOAT's but Iniesta is the one! In Spain they'd probably go with Iniesta too, simply for scoring the winner in a world cup final. Iniesta was the more agile and better dribbler imo.
It's kind of funny how people have such a clear cut idea of a player's level while admitting at the same time they didn't watch him play for the past 2 years and basing there opion on Neymar rolling during the world cup.
He's absolutely phenomenal since the end of his last injury. Not only offensively but also in his defensive intensity, showing Mbappe and Di Maria the efforts you need to display to be a top player. At this very moment, i'd take Neymar over any other player in the world without thinking twice. Now, we know that his performances will only be acknowledged if he performs at the same level in the CL but i've rarely seen him that good, even in Barcelona. And to be honest, I don't think it's easier to score in Ligue 1 than it is in Liga, teams facing PSG play really low on the pitch and try not to concede goals first and foremost.
Ignorance is not an excuse for a poor review of a player.
He's absolutely phenomenal since the end of his last injury. Not only offensively but also in his defensive intensity, showing Mbappe and Di Maria the efforts you need to display to be a top player. At this very moment, i'd take Neymar over any other player in the world without thinking twice. Now, we know that his performances will only be acknowledged if he performs at the same level in the CL but i've rarely seen him that good, even in Barcelona. And to be honest, I don't think it's easier to score in Ligue 1 than it is in Liga, teams facing PSG play really low on the pitch and try not to concede goals first and foremost.
Ignorance is not an excuse for a poor review of a player.
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I will like to believe your opinion more as a PSG fan than for people who said they haven't watched him in years but have an opinion on his current game
People tend to hate on Neymar and underrate him because of his flamboyant image and big ego. If he had a more "working class" image, people would probably cut him some slack.
He is easily top 3 biggest talent in world football for me. If PSG wins the CL he will be propelled back into the discussion again because I don't see how PSG are going to win it unless he turns it up in the knockout stages.
Some of the lazy talks here are truly bizzare. Neymar might be a big diva but he definitely works hard for the team.
He is easily top 3 biggest talent in world football for me. If PSG wins the CL he will be propelled back into the discussion again because I don't see how PSG are going to win it unless he turns it up in the knockout stages.
Some of the lazy talks here are truly bizzare. Neymar might be a big diva but he definitely works hard for the team.
Like a few others here I agree Neymar is the better player.
Neymar is the player, who as an attacker can have the ball anywhere in the pitch and make something happen. He is a phenomenal chance creator and playmaker that can make the most disadvantageous situations into something attacking and open up any phase of play. It's that mix of pure skill, technique, athleticism and consistency of those situations happening that you see in other players like Hazard, Pogba, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Messi and Maradonna etc. I know it's cliche but it's purely elite levels of 'magic' happening.
Mbappe is an explosive player with all the clinical ability to do all those things mentioned above in isolation but he's just not that naturally inclined as player. I guess he's more transitional, link up and at the end of chances. I.e If you religiously fed Mbappe the ball the same way you would Neymar, you would be getting 'less' output. That's not to say he's a much worse player, it's just his ability isn't suited for that and by extension his influence is less/'different'.
They're obviously stylistically different players so it's hard to compare but in a vacuum (e.g ignoring things like what team they are playing in/set up with), their influence is probably the right measurement here to quantify it.
Pretty much everyone, today and in the 90's, says that Ronaldo was better than Zidane.
Most people hate that he behaves like a brat and the last world cup ruined his image a lot plus the manner which he left Barcelona, Those have nothing to do with his abilities as a footballer and he has a lot in his arsenal to hurt any opponent, elite dribbling skills, pace and scoring abilities
He is the 3rd all-time scorer for Brazil. In the CL (he came to Europe 6 seasons ago) he has 33 goals despite the injury worries and not being a central striker
There's no doubt about the fact that at this point, Neymar is a FAR better football player. His passing ability is dramatically underrated, and there's only few things that Mbappe can do that Neymar cannot. The opposite is far from being true though. Imo, Neymar is currently the best passer in the world. You have players with a strong foot as good as his (KdB, Messi...) but the fact that his left foot is almost as good makes him lethal from any position.
If i were to keep only one of the 2 for PSG next year (based on performances on the pitch only), i would keep Neymar in a heartbeat.
I think we have been spoilt recently with Messi and with Ronnie in that we have had the best ever and one of the best ever playing at the same time for a long period.
In past times there could always be a player that was considered the best but injuries would kick in or loss of form and there was not a gulf between the other best players at that time at the time. Diego was different of course as no one came close.
I think once Messi and Ronnie kick their ball off to the sunset we will go back to those past times once more.
In past times there could always be a player that was considered the best but injuries would kick in or loss of form and there was not a gulf between the other best players at that time at the time. Diego was different of course as no one came close.
I think once Messi and Ronnie kick their ball off to the sunset we will go back to those past times once more.
I don’t think that’s true at all after the 1998 World Cup. Zidane was pulling teams apart around that time on a regular basis.
The major thing that sticks out to me about Ronaldo having watched him at Inter is after 1998 he was never on the pitch for them often and it was sad.
Zidane was the better player in 2002 when Ronaldo won the World Cup. That and 2004 where his main feel good moments but he didn’t dominate world football like Zidane did for a large portion of his career. He was France’s absolute number one for like 10 years.
Granted they aren’t that far apart career wise but I just don’t see how he impacted games more regularly than Zidane or had more peaks.
Out of the 61 goals he scored for Brazil, 42 are from friendly, and only 19 are from competitive matches.
Not saying he is not great, but the so called 3rd all-time scorer for Brazil is abit overrated for his country. He has done nothing special for Brazil so far in his career.
Being a cheating cnut hasn't helped him either. Clearly one of the best, based on his talent and what he can do on the pitch, but chasing the money in going to PSG means this guy will never be the legend his talent says he could have been. He deserves not to be, frankly.
Don't think he's blown anything.
By all accounts, he'll return to Barcelona in the summer.
He's probably been the most in-form player in the world in 2020 thus far.
And were it not for injuries, maybe PSG could have done something in Europe. He's by far their best player.
By all accounts, he'll return to Barcelona in the summer.
He's probably been the most in-form player in the world in 2020 thus far.
And were it not for injuries, maybe PSG could have done something in Europe. He's by far their best player.
He won the Confed cup for Brazil
Didn't Brazil withdraw him from a Copa America to win the Olympics for them at home? At that point, the Olympics was quite important to Brazil as that was the only trophy that was missing from their collection.
He was absolutely epic in that MSN season! I agree I’d take him over Mbappe. and Di Maria can’t even lace his boots.
Think it's less to do with Neymar being inconsistent and more to do with Messi and Ronaldo being preposterously consistant. That's a big reason they're so far ahead of the rest. They've performed out of this world for practically their entire career. When Ronaldo doesn't score for 3 games in a row, people start saying he's over the hill. When a normal attacker scores every 3rd game, he's having a great season.
To illustrate this topic and to show he still "got it", here's his goal during PSG's last game.
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Neymar and Mbappe will never be recognized as the best players in world until they leave PSG, there's no credit in winning domestic titles for Paris and even a CL wouldn't prove they're the number 1.
Don't really wanna derail the thread but Iniesta really wasn't inferior to Xavi.
Both Luiz Ronaldo's and Zidane's club trophy haul is actually quite lacking considering their status.
I think a CL win would change that line of thinking. It's such a big and important trophy, the most important in club football, and for a French club to win it would be a huge deal.
I didn't say that he was, I said that it's how most people perceived it and a lot of it is based on stats, Xavi accumulated assists while Iniesta didn't.
But Neymar is nearly as consistent his stats in France have been on par, no actually better than the Cr9 of the last couple seasons.
Plus in all honesty Cristiano is nowhere as good as a passer or playmaker as Neymar is.
Yeah agree he's better at that, but I meant Ronaldo being consistent at being Ronaldo i.e. Scoring lots of important goals. I dont think Ronaldo and Messi are on the same level either, but this is not the thread for that
Regarding stats, does Neymar score the same amount of goals as Ronaldo since he's at PSG? Didnt know that to be honest.
Olympic and Confed cup, the 2 most forgettable international cup competitions where nobody in the world cares...and where best players don't even bother to take part in and its the competition for their B team.. kind of like Micky Cup... I can't even remember or name any past winner from these to be honest. Its almost like some pre-season friendly tournament where winner does get the trophy, but its just so insignificance..
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Confederations cup
My lasting image of that competition was our penalty shootout against Spain, and Iker's face after they "won" (they so clearly did not want to win
neither did we. Winning that cup was a death sentence for the World Cup)The olympics yeah, those were a big deal for brazil because it was at home and they'd never won it
Still not the kind of stuff that make up a footballer's CV though