The need for creativity in our squad

Canagel

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
12,306
Our squad reflects our position imo. No way do we have a better squad than Liverpool nor Spurs. I would say we're on par with Chelsea and Arsenal. I think people who think we have better players than that probably do because they overrate the likes of Martial, Rashford and even Pogba.
disagree .we're top of the league since Ole came- more points than any other team. we are behind City and closer behind Liverpool maybe on a par with Spurs but definitely ahead of Chelsea and Arsenal. we even gave those three a half season head start and still caught up . if ole started the campaign we'd be sitting in 3rd place comfy right now no questions.
 

Janson

Full Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Messages
6,027
Location
Sweden
disagree .we're top of the league since Ole came- more points than any other team. we are behind City and closer behind Liverpool maybe on a par with Spurs but definitely ahead of Chelsea and Arsenal. we even gave those three a half season head start and still caught up . if ole started the campaign we'd be sitting in 3rd place comfy right now no questions.
Yeah we have had a very good start under OGS but we will have to see if we can keep that up until the end of the season. I'm not convinced that our record with Ole is our true level.
 

Maticmaker

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
1,507
It's not just creativity that we have a dearth of, its players who can make others play; either by giving encouragement, or by exercising authority or by anticipating the next move and forcing the play.

The best forward played and telling pass yesterday was a straight ball down the right channel from Smalling launched from his own half to a good inside the full back run forward by Dalot who then played a first time pass into the pen area. Now very few would describe Chris Smalling as our most creative player, he often looks scared to death when in possession, but he saw the next move he didn't wait for Dalot, he forced the play... it came to nothing because that's where the anticipation/ perception amongst our attackers failed; Lingard too far back, Rashford stood amongst three Wolves defenders, not seeking space and Martial still hugging the left-hand touchline.

The most worrying thing for me about yesterday was not just the slow build up or lack of intense pressing, but that our three front men went back to playing their own game and against a resolute well drilled defence like Wolves it was virtually useless.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
20,072
Location
Birmingham
Our squad reflects our position imo. No way do we have a better squad than Liverpool nor Spurs. I would say we're on par with Chelsea and Arsenal. I think people who think we have better players than that probably do because they overrate the likes of Martial, Rashford and even Pogba.
Does our squad reflect our position, though? To me, we were underachieving massively under Jose and since Ole has come in, we've been playing at the level we're capable of and form shows that if he were here at the start of the season, we'd be title challengers.

Dont get me wrong, we are far from the finish article, but in my opinion, we have a better squad than our current position would suggest.
 

Janson

Full Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Messages
6,027
Location
Sweden
Does our squad reflect our position, though? To me, we were underachieving massively under Jose and since Ole has come in, we've been playing at the level we're capable of and form shows that if he were here at the start of the season, we'd be title challengers.

Dont get me wrong, we are far from the finish article, but in my opinion, we have a better squad than our current position would suggest.
I just don't see this form continuing next season without serious reinforcements. Martial and Rashford are still too inconsistent for one to be starters. Just the eye test tells me that we're not even close to Liverpool and City when it comes to passing and fluidity. I think we might be better than Arsenal and Chelsea but that's it.
 

simplyared

Full Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Messages
2,726
Location
somewhere ouside the UK
We're far too reliant on Pogba. If he has an off day, which he has too many of, nothing creative comes from our midfield. Herrera for all he's worth, justn't doesn't cut it creativitywise. Matic has another role which he performs very well. So yes we're screaming for a creative midfielder. Özil maybe!
 

Patrick08

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Messages
5,447

I miss this level of creativity in our club.
 

Art Vandelay

Full Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
5,709
Location
Northern Ireland
We need someone like Eriksen in midfield along side Pogba
Yeah, if he's really looking to leave we should be trying to break the bank for him. Great player in his prime that could play instead of Pogba, can be a massive upgrade on Lingard or work as more of a wide playmaker. He would give us options and we'd have one of the best players in the league.

Spurs would be looking for a fortune though.
 

Canagel

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
12,306
RW like Sancho has bagged 12 assists this year . if you add a ball playing CB and DM we're sorted creativity wise.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
20,072
Location
Birmingham
We need an upgrade on Lingard. Whoever plays in that right wing/number 10 role is more often than not, not good enough.
I personally think we should get rid of the false winger and just get a playmaking centre midfielder.

Games such as yesterday shouldn't really require our wingers roaming and playing centrally. We need to stretch compact teams and in order to do that, we really need wingers who stay wide.

Give the job to the centre midfielder to create. After all, that is their job.
 

AaronRedDevil

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2018
Messages
3,180
The only thing that annoys me is that the team hasn't a clue what to do in the final third. They just wing it. You'd think after all the years they've played together, they'd know what to do. Barca is a perfect example. They'd look at the player and he know exactly where to run to. Like it a plan. How many backheel passes have we seen where's there's no one even there.
 

In Rainbows

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
4,818

I miss this level of creativity in our club.
Develop Gomes. He needs to start getting first team minutes. I don't see much separation from Pereira and Gomes apart from one being older. We're not all that progressive with youngsters.
 

reddaz71

New Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
960
Location
Cheshire
Sancho and Rabiot would enhance us but will the Glazers stump up whats needed, doubtful!
 

buckooo1978

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
12,970
agree with the OP

we've barely invested in the attack the last couple of years and we are reliant on Pogba, a tired looking Rashford and the inconsistency of Martial/Lukaku and Lingard. Sanchez has been a disaster and Mata is a player with a reputation for unlocking defences but his influence has been close to zero this year.

we should sign a CB but next priorities have to be a playmaker and a couple of other attackers - someone who can beat a man is essential

one possible scenario is

De Ligt, Neves, Dembele and Fekir

you are talking about 300m there though most likely
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
3,215
I'm not bothered to do that because it's been done to death. It's too subjective and pointless.

I know how this goes. Someone is inevitably going to come in and ask me if I really think we have better than Henderson and Milner. Apparently these two are garbage despite making up most of the midfield in a title challenging team. So the answer is yes, I would take those two ahead of Herrera and Matic. And obviously Salah and Mane are miles better than Rashford and Martial.

As a whole, imo our team belongs in a top four fight, nothing more.
We are in this current position because of Mourinho so our position right now doesn’t reflect the squad, last season we finished 2nd. If you are bothered to take your time to think and answer what I asked you, may be you won’t be overrating Spurs, Chelsea & arsenal squad or even Liverpool.
 

E-mal

Full Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2017
Messages
676
We need a lot of creativity, perhaps a player like Thiago or Ericksen in midfield and Sancho on the right.
Think Delight, Ericksen/Thiago, Sancho and Munier is OK for the summer.
 

Janson

Full Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Messages
6,027
Location
Sweden
We are in this current position because of Mourinho so our position right now doesn’t reflect the squad, last season we finished 2nd. If you are bothered to take your time to think and answer what I asked you, may be you won’t be overrating Spurs, Chelsea & arsenal squad or even Liverpool.
I have thought about it, but it's pointless to list players against eachother since it never ends in a constructive debate. It's been done many times on here. That is my opinion on our squad strength, and you're welcome to disagree.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
3,215
I have thought about it, but it's pointless to list players against eachother since it never ends in a constructive debate. It's been done many times on here. That is my opinion on our squad strength, and you're welcome to disagree.
So far you haven’t provide an evidence of your own statement. The rank of the league doesn’t reflect our squad because of Mourinho. A manager can make good players look bad.

This is why we having this discussion.

It’s your opinion who do you think worthy the money to upgrade our squad. It’s similar to signing new players bandwagon, So it’s useful to provide your original statement a solid proof.
 

Eli Zee

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
359
Yeah we have had a very good start under OGS but we will have to see if we can keep that up until the end of the season. I'm not convinced that our record with Ole is our true level.
Very true and that’s not a slam at Ole. We need a better squad if we want to compete with city, liverpool, and Europe’s best.


Just cause Ole had a great record coming in, doesn’t mean it’s sustainable. I love Ole and can’t wait to see what he can do when we have a few additions to the squad. We really do lack in a lot of areas of the pitch.
 

Nuts

Full Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
1,288
Very true and that’s not a slam at Ole. We need a better squad if we want to compete with city, liverpool, and Europe’s best.


Just cause Ole had a great record coming in, doesn’t mean it’s sustainable. I love Ole and can’t wait to see what he can do when we have a few additions to the squad. We really do lack in a lot of areas of the pitch.
I agree with this. At least Ole can get the best out of even weak players. There’s no reason why, against Barcelona, players like Mata, Young or Dalot can’t give exceptional performances. SAF would always get performances out of guys like Butt, McClair, Phil Neville, David May etc etc when he needed to.

It was something Mourinho was simply awful at - he’d make the weaker players so underconfident they became worse. With Ole I can see a return to the vital habit of getting great performances from squad players.
 

Abe144

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 1, 2019
Messages
125
Supports
CD Guadalajara
DM ? He has, multiple times even. For both Bilbao and United
Through injuries maybe. Javi Martinez or Ander Iturraspe was the DM when Herrera was at Bilbao
 

Gasolin

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
4,479
Location
NYC
I thought Herrera was too safe with his passing. I like him, but in days like this, you get reminded of his limitations. Surely Ole would allow him to be more expansive in his passing?
It depends of games, but it seems that he is asked to cover most of the times. Only against Chelsea he was allowed to move forward, and that translated in a goal for example. Overall, it's never one player because I think the failure was collective, but we did need to create more movement off the ball to ask for it, and no one was asking for it. Rashford made some calls behind the defensive line but they were too few, we need much more movement to ask for the ball again and again to have a chance in this kind of game. Maybe fitness was not top notch as well.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
74,239
Location
india
The only thing that annoys me is that the team hasn't a clue what to do in the final third. They just wing it. You'd think after all the years they've played together, they'd know what to do. Barca is a perfect example. They'd look at the player and he know exactly where to run to. Like it a plan. How many backheel passes have we seen where's there's no one even there.
It helps to have a few playmakers in the team. Teams are out of synch when little things go wrong like a player not making an obvious pass or holding on to the ball for too long. A small (ironically) moment yesterday was when Smalling had a simple passing inside to try CM but didn't have the confidence to make it and went to the marked fullback instead.

I think in the end it boils down to having footballers who are comfortable in tight spaces. We need more.
 

Slamar85

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
Messages
26
Buy James Rodriguez, Dybala and Allan to improve our midfield, creativity and attack. Koulibaly and Hysaj in the back. Would cost over 250 even after selling few players.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
45,843
Location
Hope, We Lose
Buy James Rodriguez, Dybala and Allan to improve our midfield, creativity and attack. Koulibaly and Hysaj in the back. Would cost over 250 even after selling few players.
You really think Napoli are going to sell 3 of their players to us without asking for ridiculous fees to make it worthwhile them dismantling their team?

Sounds easier if you just support Napoli.
 

Janson

Full Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Messages
6,027
Location
Sweden
It really does though. You can choose to disagree with it
Well yeah I do choose to disagree. We will just have to see if any manager ever plays him there in the future. And I mean consistently as first choice, not as a stand in from time to time.
 

kouroux

45k posts to finally achieve this tagline
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
78,269
Location
Djibouti (La terre des braves)
Well yeah I do choose to disagree. We will just have to see if any manager ever plays him there in the future. And I mean consistently as first choice, not as a stand in from time to time.
Whatever Ole does, we definitely need another body there. Matic shouldn't start every game and specially the tougher ones.
 

Janson

Full Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Messages
6,027
Location
Sweden
Whatever Ole does, we definitely need another body there. Matic shouldn't start every game and specially the tougher ones.
Definitely, I would faze out Matic anyway and get someone else to start at the same time.
 

Dec9003

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
5,525
Herrera was United's POTY playing deep in midfield,it's 100% a role he can play well.
 

RedorDead21

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Messages
8,149
Herrera was United's POTY playing deep in midfield,it's 100% a role he can play well.
Doesn't pass through the lines well enough or often enough for me. Not good enough to be our DM long term and rarely does a manager play him in there. I like him where he is why change his position? We should buy a top DM.
 

jem

Full Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,577
Location
Toronto
So far you haven’t provide an evidence of your own statement. The rank of the league doesn’t reflect our squad because of Mourinho. A manager can make good players look bad.

This is why we having this discussion.

It’s your opinion who do you think worthy the money to upgrade our squad. It’s similar to signing new players bandwagon, So it’s useful to provide your original statement a solid proof.
Sorry to jump into this, but it's a bit weird to be asking for evidence and then make a completely subjective statement like this.
 

buckooo1978

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
12,970
Sorry to jump into this, but it's a bit weird to be asking for evidence and then make a completely subjective statement like this.
I would have thought the evidence was there for all to see

Ole's team has done things Mourinho's didn't/couldn't for months now
 

KingMinger22

City >>> United. Moaning twat
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
7,245
Location
Chicago
We need a lot of creativity, perhaps a player like Thiago or Ericksen in midfield and Sancho on the right.
Think Delight, Ericksen/Thiago, Sancho and Munier is OK for the summer.
This.

We need two TOP CLASS creative additions minimum.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
3,215
Sorry to jump into this, but it's a bit weird to be asking for evidence and then make a completely subjective statement like this.
It’s not weird because he said that the rank/position of the league reflect our squad. And that’s why I make statement to say that’s not the case.
 

Oneunited26

New Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
4,635
We just seeing limitations with the squad, and even our best players mentally they need to do more also. I would love to say we rebuilding, but? It’s a problem when none of us know the direction and the investment we need in the squad big time
 

jem

Full Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,577
Location
Toronto
I would have thought the evidence was there for all to see

Ole's team has done things Mourinho's didn't/couldn't for months now
There's still no tangible way to prove that it would have been that way from the start. Many would claim that the 'new manager bounce' had an effect on our great start. I happen to think Ole has done a great job and would've been a good appointment from the start of the season, but it's an opinion, and not something that anyone could prove would have happened from the start of the season.