The [non] use of Van de Beek - Ole's player?

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

Fabinho took 6 months to become a Liverpool regular. And before that the outside world had written him off as a flop.

Only curious thing about DVB is that he’s clearly been very good in the small amount of minutes he’s had.

I know there’s talk of the United way and flying wingers etc but our one winger is crap, the other players that play wide are all central players.

Maybe we should embrace this... our width comes from the FB and we dominate games through our superior central midfield. Pogba, DVB, Bruno, and either Fred or McTomminay holding

 

[Borys]

Meh, the more interesting question would be why we bought him in the first place. Number of possible scenarios:

1. Bought as backup for Bruno. Unfortunately now it's clear Pogba can't play in midfield so he VdB has found himself in difficult situation. Most likely.

2. Strategic move if Pogba leaves. Makes most sense.

3. Ole thought he is a midfielder and can be a cover for Fred/McTominay, but now he only sees him as attacking player. Unlikely as would be an amateur move. But would explain why we're using him so rarely.

Having 3 players per one position is OK, but we should've focused on getting AT LEAST one winger.

 

[VP89]

Jesus Christ mate, we've only played 8 games this season. Ziyech at Chelsea is being given exactly the same treatment and no one is complaining, it's just Sky and co making a big deal out of nothing.

Ziyech was injured for a long while. He tweaked his knee again in the Brighton pre season.

 

[mav_9me]

James and vdb play in different positions ffs

Yeah but I would shoehorn vdb into the side somehow instead of playing James.

 

[Lash]

Ziyech was injured for a long while. He tweaked his knee again in the Brighton pre season.

True, but he's been fit for the last 3 games and have been limited to 20 mins in all of those games. Same concept applies though. It's a long season and they will have ample chance to play.

 

[tjb]

Jesus Christ mate, we've only played 8 games this season. Ziyech at Chelsea is being given exactly the same treatment and no one is complaining, it's just Sky and co making a big deal out of nothing.

This is something that has irked me. Ziyech hasn't been playing yet literally no headlines.

 

[Bastian]

Still a bit early to be jumping to conclusions. Some of which are really out there, like VdB is a Woodward signing and therefore Ole doesn't play him. We are talking about a manager who has not rocked the boat one iota. He'd never leave him on the bench out of spite.

I suspect it's a mixture of Ole still figuring out his team, his approach, whilst also bedding him in slowly. I have no worries he won't soon be getting plenty of games. And I'd quite like to see him next to McTominay behind Bruno if Ole persists with the 4231.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

£40m 4th choice backup. Why not? I mean, it’s not like other areas need any strengthening.

 

[Lash]

This is something that has irked me. Ziyech hasn't been playing yet literally no headlines.

TBF, as mentioned above Ziyech has had some injury problems. It's just an easy target. Ole should rightfully have some faith in the Fred/Scott partnership after the last few games and Pogba is on off the bench before him every day of the week. He just wanted to see Cavani today and Greenwood was the choice if we wanted a goal.

 

[OrcaFat]

Neville was moaning about it on the Sky Sports commentary but I don't get it. It's a squad game. It was 0-0 and we were going for the win - why would we bring on VDB instead of Greenwood, or even Cavani or Pogba?

It's a long old season, Donny will get his chances. At the very least, it's refreshing to have a player of his quality sitting on the bench rather than the likes of Pereira or Lingard.

Yes, I agree.

 

[Lee565]

£40m 4th choice backup. Why not? I mean, it’s not like other areas need any strengthening.

This, if you add up his transfer fee/wages along with the likes of pellestri and cavani as well, then your looking at around 60 million which could have massively helped us in buying a defensive midfielder or central defender to strengthen our actual first 11.

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

He couldnt play worse than Mata and James on the wings.

 

[Dominos]

It was always a strange signing, if we were signing a midfielder this summer it should have been someone who can play in the double pivot. Back up for Bruno was not the priority as Pogba can deputise that role.

He's here now and it's surely worth giving him a run alongside Fred or Mctominay. It may also be worth playing one of the midfielders out of position in games we're struggling for options in the attacking front 3 - Pogba, Fernandes and VDB probably would have offered more than James on the left wing today.

 

[arthurka]

He is a good player he will get gametime here no doubt.

 

[OrcaFat]

He’ll get chances and will play 25 games I bet, maybe more, depending how well he plays (isn’t that how it works?).

 

[Greck]

I'm just glad we have squad depth

Last year if they weren't in the XI the question asked was why they weren't out of the club

 

[Canagel]

He should be a starter. Outside of penalties Bruno is mostly average in the majority of aspects of a 10 but people arent ready for that conversation yet. If VdB was given the same time on the pitch I have no doubt he would outproduce him in open play while also being more efficient. He scored within a few minutes on his debut by ghosting in the box and scored in the international break too

 

[RUCK4444]

Many said when he was signed that he was brought in to offer depth, and its looking like just that at the moment. He'll end the season with plenty games im sure.

This. I said at the time he would struggle to get into our starting 11 when all fit because he’s basically rotation for Bruno.

I don’t think Ole sees him as anything other than a no 10 and if that’s the case why would any of us want him to drop Bruno...

 

[SSSSnake]

I don’t understand what Ole see in Dan James. He offered nothing today and might as well not been playing. VDB offers so much more and its killing me we’re not playing him!

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

He’ll get chances and will play 25 games I bet, maybe more, depending how well he plays (isn’t that how it works?).

25 games for your €40mil summer signing

Not a bad player, simply not the player we need/needed.

 

[RORY65]

Fabinho took 6 months to become a Liverpool regular. And before that the outside world had written him off as a flop.

Only curious thing about DVB is that he’s clearly been very good in the small amount of minutes he’s had.

I know there’s talk of the United way and flying wingers etc but our one winger is crap, the other players that play wide are all central players.

Maybe we should embrace this... our width comes from the FB and we dominate games through our superior central midfield. Pogba, DVB, Bruno, and either Fred or McTomminay holding

The one difference was that Klopp had done that before, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Robertson weren't regulars straight away either, probably due it taking a while for players to get up to speed with the way they play. That's not really been the same with Solskjaer, I don't think there is a particularly sophisticated or complicated system to get to grips with, he's generally put signings in immediately (Maguire, AWB and Fernandes all came in straight away and James started the 2nd game having come on in the 1st).

I presume Van De Beek has been brought in as cover for Fernandes and Pogba but it would be strange for that to be the only signing we made before deadline day if that is the case when there were still holes in the first 11, like as you note the fact that Solskjaer seems fixated on playing 4-2-3-1 despite not having many options at all in wide areas as well as not being able to find a balance in midfield that means we can be proactive (rather than just solely counter-attacking) without being really open. I would also like to see the diamond tried a bit more although maybe without Telles and Martial and with Cavani not fully fit he felt he didn't have the personnel for it but I suspect it's more that he sees positives to playing 4-2-3-1 that I don't currently.

 

[Maureen-yo]

He should be a starter. Outside of penalties Bruno is mostly average in the majority of aspects of a 10 but people arent ready for that conversation yet. If VdB was given the same time on the pitch I have no doubt he would outproduce him in open play while also being more efficient. He scored within a few minutes on his debut by ghosting in the box and scored in the international break too

It's interesting, most posters think Bruno is undroppable but that's based on the heroics of last season.

 

[ForeverRed1]

He should be a starter. Outside of penalties Bruno is mostly average in the majority of aspects of a 10 but people arent ready for that conversation yet. If VdB was given the same time on the pitch I have no doubt he would outproduce him in open play while also being more efficient. He scored within a few minutes on his debut by ghosting in the box and scored in the international break too

Bruno has taken us up a level since he’s been here. Lucky to have him.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

The one difference was that Klopp had done that before, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Robertson weren't regulars straight away either, probably due it taking a while for players to get up to speed with the way they play. That's not really been the same with Solskjaer, I don't think there is a particularly sophisticated or complicated system to get to grips with, he's generally put signings in immediately (Maguire, AWB and Fernandes all came in straight away and James started the 2nd game having come on in the 1st).

I presume Van De Beek has been brought in as cover for Fernandes and Pogba but it would be strange for that to be the only signing we made before deadline day if that is the case when there were still holes in the first 11, like as you note the fact that Solskjaer seems fixated on playing 4-2-3-1 despite not having many options at all in wide areas as well as not being able to find a balance in midfield that means we can be proactive (rather than just solely counter-attacking) without being really open. I would also like to see the diamond tried a bit more although maybe without Telles and Martial and with Cavani not fully fit he felt he didn't have the personnel for it but I suspect it's more that he sees positives to playing 4-2-3-1 that I don't currently.

great points. It was very noticeable during the match vs Newcastle, and to a much lesser extent yesterday vs Chelsea. Mata and Bruno combine well to produce good play and openings, but everything behind them lacks creativity. Against Newcastle bringing on Pogba and DVB changed that and gave us creativity deeper and led to our 2nd goal.

But today I can understand Ole playing 2 defensive CM’s it was probably more about not losing again at OT... I just hope in the long term he starts playing to our strengths

 

[RedRonaldo]

He is backup for Bruno. Simple as that.

 

[UmbroDays]

people need to stop saying that he came here for squad depth

VdB never came here to warm the bench and he specifically said that him and Ole talked and he liked the plan to use him. No player would like to move countries, leave friends and family just to sit on the bench and come on last few minutes of a game in the biggest games of the season so far

 

[Dante]

Easy.

Pogba and Fernandes have both been better than VdB on the training ground.

 

[Flexdegea]

I think he was signed mostly because fan uproar was at the highest; we hadn’t signed a single player and the league was about 3-4 weeks away, and Ajax were extremely easy to work with — player wanted the move, Ajax had a fee in mind, both clubs have a good relationship with each other.

Whether he was an “Ole player” or not, eh. I’m sure he was on the list and I doubt Ole was going to say ‘nah, not him’ when it looked very possible to do the deal.

He’s a good player though, and should definitely be playing more than what he has done.

Disaster of a post..


Like a back page opinion piece

 

[Marcus]

I don’t understand what Ole see in Dan James. He offered nothing today and might as well not been playing. VDB offers so much more and its killing me we’re not playing him!

I feel the same way. VDB can play practically all our attacking positions. I have no issues with not subbing him on given we were going for a win. But he should already have been on the field instead of James. Even if United were playing counterattacking football, I am sure VDB can fit into that system as well given his footballing intelligence.

 

[Adnan]

He's better than Fred, McTominay and Pogba in a double pivot IMO and has been deployed in such a role for Ajax numerous times. Below is one example against Chelsea in the UCL game at Stamford bridge last season. He's adept at applying pressure and would be ideal to initiate the wide pressing trap, similar to how Nagelsmann deploys Konrad Laimer at RB Leipzig to win the ball back by swarming the opposition wide receiver in a wolf like press.

I would personally even start him ahead of Bruno due to VdB's superior link up play and movement in the final third which would see us make better use of the ball. He's someone that would help us quicken the tempo and also defend from the front due to his high work rate and intelligence which would see him either trigger the high press or occupy the half space which would cut off passing lanes. He's tactically and technically proficient and would enhance team synergy going forward IMO.

Plays in a double pivot below at Stamford Bridge next to Lisandro Martinez with Ziyech deployed as the most advanced CAM. Promes and Neres occupying the wide roles with Tadic playing as the forward.



VdB v Chelsea in a advanced role for Ajax against Chelsea below in a 4-2-3-1 with Alvarez and Martinez in a double pivot with Tadic through the middle and Promes - Ziyech as the wide attackers.

 

[Jibbs]

He will play more once Pogba is sold.

 

[AbusementPark]

Its criminal having the guy on the bench then not using him at all yesterday. He should have came on for Fred. Not saying Fred played badly, but we needed more attacking flair. Can see him seeking a move away soon along with Pogba.

I know its early days in the season but he's been ignored for nearly all games and when he has came on hes done brilliantly.

 

[Jibbs]

That's why I hate Evra. He clearly comments on United with an agenda. Clearly he was after DoF job which was rightly not given to him. His punditry is as average as any poster's on CAF.

 

[kerryman]

Fred, McTominay and Mata deserved a chance as backups ahead of him and they've taken it. Bruno's too productive to drop, Pogba has too much potential to not have on the pitch one way or the other, and we need pace to complement the others. He was never going to slot straight into the first team because he was never that good. If we wanted a first team player in his position it would've been Grealish for twice the price. Not much to see really. None of the signings are Ole's players.

Not much having potential if he rarely reaches it...come on, Pogba's been at the club 4 years now, he has never realised his potential and most likely never will. He's shown flashes of brilliance here and there but has never had the impact on the team that Bruno has had. Having him in the team based on potential is rubbish. He should be in the team based on his recent performances and form and that's been average at best. I'd have VdB in the team ahead of him based on that.

 

[Freak]

He'll be fine. He's still settling in and getting used to what's required. Not every new signing fits like a glove from day 1.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

He is Ole's player.
Ole knows the value of good squad player, to add in squad depth.

The problem is he still don't know how to fit VDB into the starting 11... easy really but I'm doubting he's going to try. Hopefully not yet and he will soon.
= (1)Just give him the "Mata" role, false winger. James isn't that good and wasting valuable position anyway. Pogba and VDB should start playing on the wings with Fred and McT shoring up the midfield. (2)Alternatiely he should start testing out VDB and either Fred or McT, best with latter.

Another problem about solution (1) is Cavani is getting into the eleven, then after 2 games later, Martial will be back. Less chances for VDB.

VDB is that good and it's sad we're wasting his talent for the dross like James still getting more and more games. He must've felt this is a bad career move. Oh well, he have to fight for places so this is also a good test for his mentality and character.

 

[Fortitude]

He'll be fine. He's still settling in and getting used to what's required. Not every new signing fits like a glove from day 1.

This suggests there's something/anything wrong with his game when he plays whilst his performances in the little time he's had suggest he'd be of great benefit to us in games like yesterday.

VdB looks like someone we should be using right now given the output seen from him thus far, so it does beg the question of how come we're not doing so when he could be the player who plays a hand in determining the game in our favour.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Maybe Donny has been crap in training? He seems fit and eager. Personally, I don't really rate Vd Beek and think out of that Ajax team he was the passenger benefitting from the creativity around him, but if you buy him for 45 million, you could at least give him some minutes.

 

[Brwned]

Not much having potential if he rarely reaches it...come on, Pogba's been at the club 4 years now, he has never realised his potential and most likely never will. He's shown flashes of brilliance here and there but has never had the impact on the team that Bruno has had. Having him in the team based on potential is rubbish. He should be in the team based on his recent performances and form and that's been average at best. I'd have VdB in the team ahead of him based on that.

Agree that if he played like he did yesterday or as he has for most of the season then he'll be displaced by VdB quite quickly. In his last couple of appearances off the bench he was a lot more useful, even though he wasn't playing to his potential. But there have been plenty of periods at United where he's been one of our best players - that's the only potential I was talking about. When he gets in those runs of form, he's better than VdB ever will be. So it's reasonable for Ole to try and get him into that form over VdB. But that will only last so long and I would think it's pretty competitive between them two right now. Bruno's not far off either, IMO. VdB is a very capable backup for either of them and they've both shown this season why we need that backup. Expecting him to be more than set is setting him up for failure because he isn't at their level, nor was he bought in the hope that he would be.

 

[OrcaFat]

25 games for your €40mil summer signing

Not a bad player, simply not the player we need/needed.

Well I’m sure how good or bad he is but I’d sure like to see him play a bit. However, let’s say he does play just 25 games, these appearances previously were given to Pereira and Lingard, if Donny is better than them, it’s not a bad outcome.
If we wanted a player who walks into the team and plays 50 games he would likely cost more, don’t you think?