The Oasis Draft SF: Physio/Synco vs Skizzo/Gio

[harms]

--------------- TEAM PHYSIO/SYNCO --------------------------- TEAM SKIZZO/GIO --------------------------​

Team Physio/Synco

Formation - 433 / 451 in defence

Defensive Line - Balanced

Marking - Zonal

Style - broadly direct, fast transition attacks if possible, with a focus on the wings. However, we are perfectly capable of slowing it down and playing with a more possession orientated style. The front three are reasonably industrious, so they will engage in some counter pressing to allow the rest of the team to reorganise. Primary defensive formation will be a compact 4-5-1.

Our wing duo are all-time greats. George Best was one of the greatest players of all time showcasing astonishing dribbling, agility and goalscoring mixed with a strong work ethic at his peak. Kurt Hamrin was an integral part of the great Swedish 1958 World Cup side and is still Fiorentina's all-time top goalscorer in all competitions, scoring more than Gabriel Batistuta. In addition he had astonishing acceleration, elegant dribbling and consummate provision to the striker from the wing.

Luigi Riva is criminally underrated in some quarters. Being the all-time leading Italian national team goalscorer with 35 goals in 42 games, he was a mobile, hardworking, complete striker; in addition, he started out as a winger and has allround capablities beyond the classical CF role. Testament to this complete package of ability and fighting mentality are his Ballon d'Or placements between 1968 and 1970, where he finished 6th, 2nd and 3rd. With all the creativity around him he will be a constant menace for Skizzio's CBs to contend with.

The front three will play in a fluid manner. Best was comfortable across the front line, Riva began as a left winger and could go inside or outside. Both wingers will limited Skizzio's full-backs forward forays and cause them headaches throughout the game. Cole and Lahm can provide balance, cover and offensive support, just as the situation requires. The wingers and full-backs will not only take advantage of Riva and Gullit's aerial ability with their expert crosses but also neat cutbacks.

Ruud Gullit's role as an attacking 8 allows him to get involved in all phases of the game and showcase his pace, power, strength, dribbling, passing, and heading ability. He will be a nightmare for Skizzio's CM. Against the ball, he will make his hardworking presence felt, and cover forward runs from Skizzio's midfielders (or Scirea, for that matter).

Our four most attacking players on averaged scored 0.55 goals a game at their peak in contrast to Skizzio's front four who averaged only 0.39 goals a game. Firepower is one area in which we have a clear advantage.

Luis Suárez Miramontes reprises his peak Inter role as a playmaking CM. He will have full freedom to be the brains of our midfield, and will spread the ball out wide or play through balls to the front three. was that he was a fine & active defender as well, perfectly capable of covering central midfield areas in collaboration with his partners.

Our new addition of Valerij Voronin adds exceptional defensive ability in defensive midfield, and will severely minimise Rivera's influence. His passing ability will also give us another option to effectively start quick transitions.

Ashley Cole is widely considered England's greatest left-back. Incredibly consistent with excellent stamina, good pace and defensive nous - he will cause a lot of problems for Figo. It is unfortunately forgotten too that he was very good going forward with his dribbling and crossing. He will play a balanced role but slightly more attacking than Lahm.

Gento has blistering pace, but Philipp Lahm has the defensive skills to contain him with his intelligence, anticipation, mobility, and trademark tackling ability - like he's done with so many wingers during his career. He will constantly have an eye on Gento's positioning & movement to intervene. He will support the offense with his playmaking abilities, while having the overall understanding of the game to avoid unnecessary risks.

If one could choose any center back to successfully defend Marco van Basten, Jaap Stam would be near the top of the list. Equipped with great anticipation & pace, toughness & tacking ability, and being exceptionally dominant in the air, he can address each of van Bastens strengths with his own. Marius Trésor is a world class allround defender with considerable ability on the ball, and a great partner to the Dutchman.

If anyone gets past these defenders, they must pass Bayern legend, IFFS goalkeeper of the year '87, and FIFA All-star keeper Jean-Marie Pfaff.

Team Skizzo/Gio

Defensive Tactics:

With the feedback given about Gullit last game, we expect Physio/Synco to go slightly more traditional with Best and Hamrin on the wings. With that in mind we decided to bring Dzodz back in at right back due to his prior success against Best.

When the Soviet team found out that they were to play North Ireland in the qualifications, they immediately started a competition for a right-back place in the national side. The main question was, obviously, who was going to man-mark the best player in the world, George Best. 9 right-backs were chosen from all over the country for a trial and Dzodzuashvili proved to be the best. He studied Best for 6 months by watching the same 20-minute film over and over again, and when the time did come, he was prepared. He kept Best quiet that day, and in their next fixture Best was almost non-existent because of Dzodzuashvili’s man-marking skills.

With Brehme coming in at left back, and Mcgrath taking a central berth, we feel secure at the back with Scirea and Buffon to cover a variety of threats along the oppositions front line.

Attacking Tactics:

Released by Rivera's precision passing, Gento and Figo would both look to trouble their full backs and provide their own threat, before taking their ability to assist into consideration.

We also offer a considerable midfield upgrade in Breitner which offers a completely new dynamic and concern for the opposition.

Through the middle Marco Van Basten can score in a multitude of ways and should be well serviced through a range of supply lines. Gento and Figo can generate chances from out wide to complement Rivera’s creativity in the centre.

Good luck @Physiocrat @Synco @Skizzo @Gio

 

[Physiocrat]

Thanks for setting up @harms

 

[2mufc0]

Suarez Inter version was more of a DLP how is this working with Voronin there?

 

[harms]

Suarez Inter version was more of a DLP how is this working with Voronin there?

He usually had someone like Bedin there, on whom Voronin is a huge upgrade. And Suarez was never a sitting DLP anyway, he was very mobile and moved all over the pitch, left & right and up & down. It's just that he wasn't going on those dribbling runs into the box as often as he did at Barca.

For example:

 

[Physiocrat]

As suspected Dodz starts. Whilst he was obviously a good defender I don't think that those games prove that much. Having seen Best vs England in '69 he appears all over the pitch - left, right and centre. No unless he literally man-marked him across the entire pitch, Best's subdued performance was more a function of him playing against an overall much superior side than tiny Northern Ireland. Given the rest of Best's teammates here, the sides are much more evenly matched than USSR vs NIR. Further, Hamrin can play both sides so when he and Best decide to switch wings this will make it extra difficult for Brehme and Dodz.

A key point in this match up is Skizzio's relative lack of goals in his front four. He is very reliant on van Basten who Stam and Tresor are a good stylistic fit whereas Hamrin, Best and Riva are all great goalscorers.

 

[Physiocrat]

@2mufc0

Here's an Inter line-up. Whilst he was known as a DLP he wasn't Pirlo.

 

[harms]

Very even teams. Skizzo has an advantage in crucial areas with 3 positional GOATs (van Basten over Riva, Scirea over Tresor & Buffon over Pfaff), but he also has the weakest player on the pitch (albeit with a perfect record against Best). And Voronin/Stam are one of the best possible fits for Rivera/van Basten, even though they're not going to negate them completely since they're just too good.

Also, as I've said some time ago, Gento vs Lahm is also a likely path to a goal; Lahm isn't going to intercept every pass and the difference in pace between them is simply ridiculous.

Gullit vs Edwards would also be a midfield battle for the ages I have to say, I'm a huge fan of P/S midfield, it's a little unorthodox, but it would work brilliantly. S/G went with a more conventional midfield trio, albeit an absolutely amazing one as well.

 

[Gio]

As suspected Dodz starts. Whilst he was obviously a good defender I don't think that those games prove that much. Having seen Best vs England in '69 he appears all over the pitch - left, right and centre. No unless he literally man-marked him across the entire pitch, Best's subdued performance was more a function of him playing against an overall much superior side than tiny Northern Ireland. Given the rest of Best's teammates here, the sides are much more evenly matched than USSR vs NIR. Further, Hamrin can play both sides so when he and Best decide to switch wings this will make it extra difficult for Brehme and Dodz.

The report is clear though. Dzodzuashvili was recruited and called up specifically to face George Best. And he man-marked him to keep him quiet. And yes the USSR were a better team, but that was a strong and competitive Northern Ireland side too. They defeated arguably Scotland's greatest ever side - comprising many of the Celtic EC winning team - twice in three years. In the 20 matches Northern Ireland played before that double-header with the Soviet Union, they never conceded more than two goals in a game. And they were only two points behind the Soviet Union in qualifying for the World Cup in Mexico (a side who they also defeated 4-1 during that period).

Very even teams. Skizzo has an advantage in crucial areas with 3 positional GOATs (van Basten over Riva, Scirea over Tresor & Buffon over Pfaff), but he also has the weakest player on the pitch (albeit with a perfect record against Best). And Voronin/Stam are one of the best possible fits for Rivera/van Basten, even though they're not going to negate them completely since they're just too good.

Also, as I've said some time ago, Gento vs Lahm is also a likely path to a goal; Lahm isn't going to intercept every pass and the difference in pace between them is simply ridiculous.

Gullit vs Edwards would also be a midfield battle for the ages I have to say, I'm a huge fan of P/S midfield, it's a little unorthodox, but it would work brilliantly. S/G went with a more conventional midfield trio, albeit an absolutely amazing one as well.

Yes, it's a great battle, would love to watch those two going at it hammer and tongs. Personally think big Dunc is as good a fit as you can hope for against big Ruud - positionally, stylistically, physically.

 

[Skizzo]

Our four most attacking players on averaged scored 0.55 goals a game at their peak in contrast to Skizzio's front four who averaged only 0.39 goals a game. Firepower is one area in which we have a clear advantage.

I’d like to know what was decided was everyone’s peak.

Or another way to look at this is our striker leading the line averaged .77 goals a game (218/280) across his entire club career, while yours averaged .50 (170/338)

Different types of wingers in both sides. Ours will look to stretch the play and the defense. Gento’s pace would be a nightmare for Lahm, whereas Dzodz has a proven track record against Best as highlighted already. They’re also different set ups. You also decline to take any of Breitners goals into account. But otherwise yes, simplifying everything into a decimal looks ok.

 

[Physiocrat]

I’d like to know what was decided was everyone’s peak.

Or another way to look at this is our striker leading the line averaged .77 goals a game (218/280) across his entire club career, while yours averaged .50 (170/338)

I'm not reducing the game to decimals but the relative number of goals scored by our attacking players is important.

The peaks were three consecutive years (draft standard - we are dealing with players at their peak so career stats aren't that useful) with the players in their prime based around individual awards such as the Ballon d'or or their best three year goalscoring record such as I did with Gento. The only difference here is with Gullit who I missed out one season as he was injured for most of it and took the next. I could have included his last season at PSV but thought it fairer to keep it just in Serie A.

The full stats I had are here:

Physco -

Riva 54 goals in 83 games - 0.65 goals a game
Gullit 21 goals in 74 games - 0.28 goals a game
Best 62 goals in 119 games - 0.52 goals a game
Hamrin 67 goals in 98 games - 0.68 goals a game

Skizzio-

van Basten 55 goals in 88 games - 0.63 goals a game
Gento 30 goals in 76 games - 0.39 goals a game
Figo goals 25 goals in 94 games - 0.27 goals a game
Rivera 26 goals in 91 games - 0.29 goals a game

From this it is clear we have a goalscoring advantage. If you want more details please ask.

Re- Breitner which version are you playing? Presumably not early LB so it is either the playmaking later Bayern version or the B2B Real one. Could you please tell me which one it is?

 

[Physiocrat]

I have to say, I'm a huge fan of P/S midfield, it's a little unorthodox, but it would work brilliantly. S/G went with a more conventional midfield trio, albeit an absolutely amazing one as well.

Thanks

Very even teams. Skizzo has an advantage in crucial areas with 3 positional GOATs (van Basten over Riva, Scirea over Tresor & Buffon over Pfaff), but he also has the weakest player on the pitch (albeit with a perfect record against Best). And Voronin/Stam are one of the best possible fits for Rivera/van Basten, even though they're not going to negate them completely since they're just too good.

It's true Voronin probably wouldn't stop Rivera entirely on his own Suarez was pretty good defensively as you have argued in the past.

Also, as I've said some time ago, Gento vs Lahm is also a likely path to a goal; Lahm isn't going to intercept every pass and the difference in pace between them is simply ridiculous.

Lahm doesn't need to intercept every pass to control Gento - he needs to make sure he can intervene with his positioning. His anticipation, timing and tackling made him to subdue many wingers more pacy than him in direct duels. Doesn't mean Gento isn't a threat, but the matchup is about more than pace and interceptions.

Relevant scenes are 0:59 to 1:55.

 

[Physiocrat]

The report is clear though. Dzodzuashvili was recruited and called up specifically to face George Best. And he man-marked him to keep him quiet. And yes the USSR were a better team, but that was a strong and competitive Northern Ireland side too. They defeated arguably Scotland's greatest ever side - comprising many of the Celtic EC winning team - twice in three years. In the 20 matches Northern Ireland played before that double-header with the Soviet Union, they never conceded more than two goals in a game. And they were only two points behind the Soviet Union in qualifying for the World Cup in Mexico (a side who they also defeated 4-1 during that period).

Dzodz clearly has it in him to make it difficult for Best as the past game shows but it whether he has it in him to stop him in this game is another question. Here both sides are more even quality wise - Dodz is also facing here Hamrin (when he switches flank) in addition to Best, both being being fed by Suarez. This would be seriously tough for any defender.

 

[Gio]

The peaks were three consecutive years (draft standard - we are dealing with players at their peak so career stats aren't that useful) with the players in their prime based around individual awards such as the Ballon d'or or their best three year goalscoring record such as I did with Gento. The only difference here is with Gullit who I missed out one season as he was injured for most of it and took the next. I could have included his last season at PSV but thought it fairer to keep it just in Serie A.

The main difference here is that Gullit played up top for Milan under Sacchi. You are using him as an 8, which is fine, but you can't use his goalscoring record for a clearly different role.

It's probably worth highlighting too that there are many right wingers with better goalscoring records than Figo. But there are few if any better at creating goalscoring opportunities for others while being a productive team-player. And frankly I'd rather have that balance of creativity, goalscoring and collective play as part of a functioning attack. Ultimately Marco Van Basten is indisputably the best goalscorer on the park and has the creative platform behind him, with a range of service from central and wide areas, to exploit that.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

The goal scoring stats thing is not fully fair IMO.

One team is built with suppliers to create chances for their main scorer, the Goat No.9.

The other is naturally built to spread scoring across the pitch.

You wouldn't be surprised with the below score

1-0 Van Basten (assist Gento)
1-1 Riva (assist Suarez)
2-1 Van Basten (assist Rivera)
2-2 Hamrin (assist Gullit)
3-2 Van Basten (assist Figo)
3-3 Best (assist Riva)

Edit: feck, Gio beat me to it.

 

[Physiocrat]

The main difference here is that Gullit played up top for Milan under Sacchi. You are using him as an 8, which is fine, but you can't use his goalscoring record for a clearly different role.

That's fair although he will be able to get forward to some extent. Also he dropped deep when he played as a 10 for Milan.

It's probably worth highlighting too that there are many right wingers with better goalscoring records than Figo. But there are few if any better at creating goalscoring opportunities for others while being a productive team-player.

Whilst it was post-peak Figo by a couple of years, he played three times against Cole (when played on the right) for the Golden Generation Portugal side - he scored and assisted zero times. He also played on the left against England with Cole in the side and assisted and scored zero times.

And frankly I'd rather have that balance of creativity, goalscoring and collective play as part of a functioning attack.

I agree which is what we have but with more goals

 

[Physiocrat]

One team is built with suppliers to create chances for their main scorer, the Goat No.9.

The other is naturally built to spread scoring across the pitch.

Riva will get very similar service from Suarez, Best and Hamrin as MVB gets from Figo, Gento and Rivera. It's just we have more options which is especially important when Stam and Tresor will limit MVB is a large extent

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Riva will get very similar service from Suarez, Best and Hamrin as MVB gets from Figo, Gento and Rivera

That's debatable at a couple of levels.

1. Inter Suarez was more about starting moves rather than creating chances. I wouldn't expect his assists number to be high. Like Scholes' was really low.
2. Hamrin from what I have seen was more a scorer than creator. For example hardly put a cross in and mostly made runs from wide like Salah.
3. Probably fair to say MVB would be more prolific.

Not to say one is better than another, just the stats might not be the right way to look at it.

 

[Physiocrat]

That's debatable at a couple of levels.

1. Inter Suarez was more about starting moves rather than creating chances. I wouldn't expect his assists number to be high. Like Scholes' was really low.
2. Hamrin from what I have seen was more a scorer than creator. For example hardly put a cross in and mostly made runs from wide like Salah.
3. Probably fair to say MVB would be more prolific.

Not to say one is better than another, just the stats might not be the right way to look at it.

1. I wasn't meaning to say that Suarez would necessarily be the assister but he would help create the openings further away from goal.

2. The Hamrin Salah comparison is not entirely accurate. The latter has never played without an attacking right back. Hamrin owned the front right attack on his own.

3. It is true Skizzio is individually setup for MVB to thrive, my issue is that if MVB is stopped, there are few goals elsewhere. I'm not saying MVB will be entirely stopped but stopping him about 80% of the time stops like 75% of Skizzio's goal threat. I'd normally want two big goalscorers but we have a situation of only one.

Whilst you could argue it is a better setup for MVB than Riva (although it is close) this is more than made up for by two additional bug goal threats.

Something, I don't know is whether Brehme ever faced a winger like Hamrin. If he did it would interesting to hear how he faired.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

2. The Hamrin Salah comparison is not entirely accurate. The latter has never played without an attacking right back. Hamrin owned the front right attack on his own.

They played in different eras. Attacking fullbacks were just showing up. Hamrin often played in 5 man attacks.
There is enough footage to verify his style of play of course.

Sweden

AC Milan (European Cup final)

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

@Physiocrat

This is a pretty good highlight of his style of play.

The 1958 Sweden game against USSR.

You can quite clearly see he always wants to runs inwards towards the goal.

Hardly ever sticks to the byline, never puts a cross in, even when there is loads of time and space to cross, his instinct was always to run inwards and score.

Also, when he moves in, you can see one of the central attackers always drifts wide (no attacking fullbacks)

I think he will gel well with Gullit and Lahm in that regards. But I wouldn't bank on him to create a lot of chances for others.

 

[Synco]

Picking up on a discussion point from before...

Luigi Riva is criminally underrated in some quarters.

While there's no doubt van Basten is the best striker on the pitch, the notion Riva is just one of several secondary goal threats in our team is absolutely wrong. Peak Riva was a world class center forward and a primary scorer, plain and simple.

A bit of info to get a better idea on the player's prime:

Riva played his whole top flight club career at Cagliari - despite many offers, he continually refused to join one of the Serie A giants. Between 1967 and 1970 (age 22 to 25), he finished as Serie A scoring leader three times in four seasons. For the only dominant world class team he played in - Italy -, he scored 35 in 42.

His Ballon d'Or placements during that timeframe were: 13 - 6 - 2 - 3. So at his peak he was seen as not only as one of the best strikers, but one of the best players in the world. Again: playing for Cagliari.

His scoring & overall performances truly escalated between the summer of 1968 and autumn of 1970. These are the times of his Ballon d'Or top 3 finishes, and Cagliari & Riva were sensationally crowned Serie A champion in 1970. For Italy, he scored the opening goal in the 1968 EURO final replay (after being injured for the first match), and his goals helped to beat Mexico and Germany in the 1970 World Cup knockouts (he didn't score against Brazil). In all matches during that period, he averaged more than 4 goals every 5 games.

As a Ballon d'Or regular, he started the 1970/71 season better than ever (4 in 4 in Serie A, 5 in 3 in the Coppa, 3 in 3 in the European Cup) - then he broke his leg, for the second time in his career. He was out for most of the season, and while still a prolific striker afterwards, he never reached the same level as before. This sudden end to his peak (along with his loyalty to Cagliari) is the main reason he's rarely on people's radar when it comes to the great strikers in the game.

But while bad luck prevented Riva from maintaining his peak level over a longer period than four years, it's exactly peak Riva we're playing here. And that means Skizzo's & Gio's defense faces an attacking threat of the highest calibre.

---------

For everyone interested, here are two really good articles on the subject, great reads regardless of this draft game.

On Riva's life and career:
Gigi Riva, the Roar of Thunder

On the legendary Cagliari team that won the league:
Cagliari's Scudetto Heroes of 1969-70

 

[Jim Beam]

Does my vote even count? Supose not?

@Physiocrat

 

[Synco]

You can quite clearly see he always wants to runs inwards towards the goal.

Hardly ever sticks to the byline, never puts a cross in, even when there is loads of time and space to cross, his instinct was always to run inwards and score.

Also, when he moves in, you can see one of the central attackers always drifts wide (no attacking fullbacks)

I think he will gel well with Gullit and Lahm in that regards. But I wouldn't bank on him to create a lot of chances for others.

But you have seen the assist at 3:21 (from the left side, btw)?

Or the cross at 2:03? (certainly not the only cross in surviving footage)

Or the pass in the box at 1:58 (even though it leads to nothing)?

Or the nice nutmeg pass from AM position for the cross at 0:15?

Sure, Hamrin is primarily a wing forward with a drive towards goal & a first rate scorer (which we see as a plus compared to the opposition wingers). But he's also a versatile and creative player. And since Riva was neither a one-dimensional nor static CF, Best surely knew how to pass and move, and Gullit was rather good in terms of creating, there sure is potential for serious creative synergy in our frontline.

 

[Physiocrat]

Does my vote even count? Supose not?

@Physiocrat

Nope, but would be good to hear you thoughts

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Or the cross at 2:03? (certainly not the only cross in surviving footage)

Just because someone made a cross from the right, it doesn't mean he is Hamrin.

Hamrin was inside the box at the end of the cross. His number is 7. He didn't make that cross

But you have seen the assist 3:21 (from the left side, btw)?

It was a 2 v 1. Not like he pierced the defense with a brilliant pass.

Or the pass in the box at 1:58 (even though it leads to nothing)?

Or the nice nutmeg pass from AM position for the cross at 0:15?

He was a fecking Ballon Dor. Sure he could pass and its not like he had zero assists. But if you watch any of his highlights, the number of chance creating moves are absolutely minuscule.

Its one of the players I adore a lot (like with most of the 50's players) and I am pretty sure my assessment is right.

 

[Jim Beam]

Nope, but would be good to hear you thoughts

It's close. I don't think Stam/Tresor is that perfect for MVB. He was just so technically sound and like a snake when he was near penalty area.
My favorite goal to show how little he needs is this first vs England at Euro. He doesn't just goes past defender after a diffucult pass he also lifts it a bit to get past him absolutely unbalanced and make a clear shot.


But... I think you're well equiped to stop Rivera/Figo/Gento. Don't agree with Gento - Lahm which was harms point last time. The problem is that they also put Brehme on that flank and Brehme would be fantastic source for MVB.

Saying that, would still give a little edge to your unpredictability with Gullit and Best. Forced to vote I would give a slight edge to you, but that could also be a case of me rating Riva really high and, yeah, not being the biggest fan of Gento. At least, in the way he is rated in draft terms. I think he can be stopped here.

 

[Physiocrat]

Thanks for the considered thoughts @Jim Beam

 

[Synco]

Just because someone made a cross from the right, it doesn't mean he is Hamrin.

Hamrin was inside the box at the end of the cross. His number is 7. He didn't make that cross

Damn you're right on that one, I retract it. But what about the compilation I posted - Hamrin can be seen crossing at 2:12, 2:52, 3:20 - the scene at 3:36 cuts off, but looks like ending with a cross as well. And the assist in the match comp you posted is, well, an assist.

I don't even disagree with your general assessment:

Sure, Hamrin is primarily a wing forward with a drive towards goal & a first rate scorer (which we see as a plus compared to the opposition wingers).

I just think you're overdoing it ("absolutely miniscule").

Three posts are up, have to go.

 

[Jim Beam]

Will vote just to see the score. Ignore me of course.

 

[Skizzo]

Whilst it was post-peak Figo by a couple of years, he played three times against Cole (when played on the right) for the Golden Generation Portugal side - he scored and assisted zero times. He also played on the left against England with Cole in the side and assisted and scored zero times.

Bit irrelevant when you're focusing so much on three-year peaks. But anyway as you say, two of those games were in 2004 and 2006 when Figo was pushing 34 and a good 5-6 years past his best. To be honest I don't think Figo aged that well into the mid-2000s and had to become more of a central playmaker to compensate for loss of his quickfire acceleration. Interestingly when he did play against Cole nearer his own peak, these are excerpts from the match reports of the BBC and the Guardian:

England were occasionally caught out by the slick passing of the Portuguese, with Real Madrid superstar Luis Figo prominent.

Portugal then won four corners in quick succession as David James and his defenders failed to deal convincingly with a stream of crosses by Luis Figo

The effect was to galvanise Portugal into showing what they could do. Figo took on and beat Butt before delivering a disappointing shot straight at James, Sergio Conceição raced through from the right to shoot narrowly past a post and Rio Ferdinand had to make an excellent block to deny Simão after more trickery from Figo.

That's all in the first half. No surprise that Cole got hauled off at half-time for Wayne Bridge. Who seems to have done a better job at keeping Figo quiet because there were no mentions of Figo's exploits in the second half.

As we've said, I'd rather have Van Basten supported by Figo and Gento creating space out wide and delivering telling crosses and cut-backs into the box, than two wing-forwards occupying space Marco wants to hit. There's loads of creativity and goals in there (don't forget Breitner backing it all up with his 59/35 game-to-goals peak, scoring in 2 World Cup Finals), with Van Basten particularly proven in netting almost goal-a-game records (31/25 and 22/20) in Serie A when it was at its stingiest and meanest.

 

[Physiocrat]

I've just had a look at those friendly games again on transfer and they're hard to assess in retrospect especially as it was the time you had like 7 subs take place per side. In one of them Figo is listed as playing on the left, but well be wrong. Btw which game are the quotes from?

It is hard to take much from them given their differential peaks but it was more to show Cole's overall quality than anything. Now I know they are very different players, but Ronaldo had a hard time against him when he was close or at his Utd peak.

As we've said, I'd rather have Van Basten supported by Figo and Gento creating space out wide and delivering telling crosses and cut-backs into the box, than two wing-forwards occupying space Marco wants to hit. There's loads of creativity and goals in there (don't forget Breitner backing it all up with his 59/35 game-to-goals peak, scoring in 2 World Cup Finals), with Van Basten particularly proven in netting almost goal-a-game records (31/25 and 22/20) in Serie A when it was at its stingiest and meanest.

On Breitner. Until he returned to Bayern his goalscoring was never that great, he didn't manage double figures in the league before then. According to Transfermarkt -

Bundesliga from 79/80, 80/81 and 81/82 (his peak goal scoring at Bayern around his 1981 peak when he came second in the Ballon D'or)

91 games
18 pens (1 of them a pen rebound)
27 goals from open play or undisclosed

0.30 ratio from open play

So whilst not bad for a CM he is unlikely to be a major threat in open play.

 

[Skizzo]

It's a collective goal threat from all over the park - that's what makes it hard to defend against. Van Basten's goalscoring record is sensational even in a brutally tough era. Gento and Figo could contribute from their outside left/right positions, and deployed in a modern 4-3-3 as inverted wingers it's quite possibly both would be 20-30 goals-a-season men. Both certainly had excellent finishing, Figo's two-footedness made him unpredictable and hard to shepherd to safety. Remember him cutting inside Carlos and twatting it in the far corner with his left peg?

And then someone like Andreas Brehme possessed immense playmaking attributes and scored 3 goals in World Cup Semi-Finals or Finals. Like Breitner, he was capable of scoring when it mattered most. Multiple threats and multiple lines of service - I think that's more important than just cherrypicking 3 goalscoring stats for player comparisons

 

[Skizzo]

The way we see it:

• We have the best goalkeeper (Buffon), defender (Scirea), midfielder (Breitner) and striker (Van Basten) on the park. Not only that we have a Brehme/Gento left flank that looks like it is custom-designed for servicing Van Basten, or winning the game on its own, as Brehme did so famously against Gullit's Holland at the 1990 World Cup.
• Physcho's two best players in Best and Gullit are up against two very challenging opponents. Best plays against the man who tamed him not once but twice when he was at the peak of his powers as the reigning Ballon D'Or holder. If not for Dzodzuashvili, it's quite possible that Soviet Union don't make the 1970 World Cup ahead of Northern Ireland (before eventually falling in extra time in the quarters). Meanwhile, Duncan Edwards is probably the number one opponent who I'd want Gullit to face in that #8 role - probably unique amongst elite CMs in matching up to the big Dutchman physically and sharing many of his broader range of attributes, whilst being deployed in his preferred left-half role.
• In contrast, I can see advantages opening for our three attackers in Gento v Lahm, Figo v Cole and Van Basten v Stam/Tresor. Nothing clear cut because they are all solid defenders and at home in this company, but enough to make the difference. Especially with Van Basten and Figo's experience in opening up defences when the art of defending was at its purest in the 1980s and 1990s.

 

[Physiocrat]

It's a collective goal threat from all over the park - that's what makes it hard to defend against.

But the point is we have a better goal threat from around the park. Take Suarez for instance. In his first three seasons at Inter scored 22 goals in 82 games - 0.27 goals a game. This is the same as Figo's peak record but the Italian league back then had far fewer goals and he played in a team renowned for being defensive. I admited that Gullit won't score as many as he would if he played at 10 here but his goal threat is similar to Rivera's

Gullit 21 goals in 74 games - 0.28 goals a game, compared with Rivera's 26 goals in 91 games - 0.29 goals a game

Van Basten's goalscoring record is sensational even in a brutally tough era.

It was but the average number of goals scored per game was lower when Riva was at his peak. If you take both players best scoring years on a consecutive three year basis at their peak you get the following.

67/68-69/70- average goals scored per game 2.0347
89/90-91/92 - average goals scored per game 2.2667

Now we can debate the relative quality but this marks out Riva's goalscoring record of 54 in 83 games even more brilliant than it first appears.

 

[Physiocrat]

The way we see it:

• Meanwhile, Duncan Edwards is probably the number one opponent who I'd want Gullit to face in that #8 role - probably unique amongst elite CMs in matching up to the big Dutchman physically and sharing many of his broader range of attributes, whilst being deployed in his preferred left-half role.
• Best plays against the man who tamed him not once but twice when he was at the peak of his powers as the reigning Ballon D'Or holder. If not for Dzodzuashvili, it's quite possible that Soviet Union don't make the 1970 World Cup ahead of Northern Ireland (before eventually falling in extra time in the quarters).

Edwards is indeed a could match for Gullit but Gullit has the freedom on occasions to drift wide as he did for Milan when Lahm cuts in. His intelligent movement will be difficult to track all game for Edwards especially when he goes wider.

Best is now playing in a side better matched for overall quality than he did with NIR and can switch with Hamrin as part of a fluid front three. Dodz will have an even harder game this time around with the creativity of the midfield and wingers.

 

[Physiocrat]

The way we see it:

• We have the best midfielder (Breitner)

Better than Suarez or Gullit?

 

[Skizzo]

But the point is we have a better goal threat from the front five. Take Suarez for instance. In his first three seasons at Inter scored 22 goals in 82 games - 0.27 goals a game. This is the same as Figo's peak record but the Italian league back then had far fewer goals and he played in a team renowned for being defensive. I admited that Gullit won't score as many as he would if he played at 10 here but his goal threat is similar to Rivera's

Gullit 21 goals in 74 games - 0.28 goals a game, compared with Rivera's 26 goals in 91 games - 0.29 goals a game

And Figo is only second to Messi in assists and knows how to put the service in for a GOAT striker.

You’ve compared a past his peak Figo to Cole, but downplay Best vs Dzodz where Best was neutralized entirely in two separate games while at his peak.

It was but the average number of goals scored per game was lower when Riva was at his peak. If you take both players best scoring years on a consecutive three year basis at their peak you get the following.

67/68-69/70- average goals scored per game 2.0347
89/90-91/92 - average goals scored per game 2.2667

Now we can debate the relative quality but this marks out Riva's goalscoring record of 54 in 83 games even more brilliant than it first appears.

We’re not the ones downplaying players and their records. It’s relatively futile to break it down to just stats. I’ve certainly done it before, but it needs to be taken into account who they’re facing directly here too.

You mention how Stam/Tresor would limit MVB, but overlook the fact that Best was proven to struggle against Dzodz, how Riva faces Scirea/Mcgrath, and Hamrin is up against Brehme. You have more players with goals, but also face a tougher task of scoring them.

 

[Skizzo]

Best is now playing in a side better matched for overall quality than he did with NIR and can switch with Hamrin as part of a fluid front three. Dodz will have an even harder game this time around with the creativity of the midfield and wingers.

On the same topic, Dzodz also has better protection with the best defender (Scirea) and best left back (Brehme) on the park with him.

 

[Skizzo]

Better than Suarez or Gullit?

Midfield Breitner to midfield Suárez yes, although I wouldn’t begrudge someone believing otherwise. Obviously they’ve had different roles at different times, and Suárez is a fantastic playmaker.

Gullit I wouldn’t compare in terms of the same position. He’s his own hybrid juggernaut.

 

[Physiocrat]

You’ve compared a past his peak Figo to Cole, but downplay Best vs Dzodz where Best was neutralized entirely in two separate games while at his peak.

Because there was a clear quality difference between NIR and USSR. Further, if Best played anything like he did against England in '69, or for most games for Utd for that matter, who would have played all over the front line so to credit Dzodz entirely for neutralising Best is unwarranted. Portugal were probably overall a better side than that England one.

You mention how Stam/Tresor would limit MVB, but overlook the fact that Best was proven to struggle against Dzodz, how Riva faces Scirea/Mcgrath, and Hamrin is up against Brehme. You have more players with goals, but also face a tougher task of scoring them.

Scriea didn't like playing against physical forwards so could be got at by Riva a bit and especially Gullit on a late run into the box following a cross from Best, Hamrin, Cole or Lahm.