The online civil war in our fanbase

Dan-Utd

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It's different opinions that make forums, if everyone agreed all we would see is posts with "+1" or "agreed" or "good point" with very little content,

I like seeing different opinions, especially if they state their reason on why they disagree rather than using it to start an online argument.

Sometimes I see threads about ex players and the amusing thing is if since he left the club he says something not very nice about us - some people will say he was a crap player for us when he was actually very good, i find that more bizzare than the civil war.
 

Kopral Jono

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I’ve noticed this for a while but the euros seemed to amplify it. There seems to be 2 sides who all love/hate the same players

Bruno FC / Ole In
Bruno, Rashford, Maguire, Shaw, McTominay

Pogba FC / Ole out
Pogba, Martial, Fred, van de Beek, Bailly

has anyone else noticed this? Twitter is infested with it. I literally saw “United fans” wishing the worst for players like Bruno & Maguire at the euros, of course with the obligatory Pogba profile pic. What’s weird to me is they all parrot the exact same opinions as each other, particularly the Pogba side, they all hate Rashford & Bruno, they all think Maguire is a fridge & Shaw is fat, Bailly & Telles are better etc. If someone reps Pogba you can guarantee they love Martial and think Rashford/Bruno are shit. The other side are slightly less toxic but still unbearable, particularly with scrutinising every move Paul Pogba makes & making deluded claims about McTominay’s ceiling.
You could see a demographic element to this, too, which makes the disconnect even more pronounced. The former camp is represented by mostly local, usually older, Mancunian fans who regard class and tradition as the be-all and end-all, while the latter camp is mainly composed of younger out-of-towners/foreign fans, typically non-white, who value winning over tradition and would like to see us operate with more ruthlessness. Both sets have their own idiots who go way too far, to be sure, but in my opinion this all boils down to the inherently conflicting identity of United as a modern football club.

If you ask me which camp I belong to, I'd say I'm a bit of both. Bruno and Pogba are world class footballers, in an ideal world Ole needs to go, Shaw has proved me wrong, Maguire is still a question mark in fast-paced Premier League, Rashford is slightly overrated, Fred and McTominay should be nowhere near our first eleven, Martial is fecking lazy, Bailly is better than Lindelof and Van de Beek deserves more games!
 

Ayoba

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It all goes away when you win.
Nail.Head.

I've been a long time lurker on these forums and only recently signed up, but I was visiting frequently during the fergie years, Yes there was still some criticism but on the whole, as we were generally winning titles the atmosphere here was good, posters got along etc.

Ever since the Moyes days, its become more and more toxic and I feel a lot of people are quick to jump on each others back. It's just a symptom of where we are unfortunately, once a top club now struggling to win anything meaningful, which has manifested into an aggrieved fanbase.
 
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They’re probably are fake accounts, sad.

But there really is genuine difference of opinion amongst United fans regarding manager and players. It’s impossible for there not to be. Only time you’ll have universal agreement at elite clubs is when a manager wins the league regularly and CL at least once (for clubs that consider themselves top 5 in Europe)

I’d guess even amongst legitimate city fans there are probably fans who feel Pep has failed by not winning the CL in 4 or so attempts. Naturally these fans won’t voice their views too loudly or too openly at this time. But deep down they will look at he’s post Barca CL record and already have their logic/reasons.
 

Nash27

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Half of them are trolls and idiots. Does not help when fan channels feed into them.
 

Andycoleno9

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I don't think that we have civil war (especially in terms in OP post) but besides Ole (in or out) we have some players where fans are completely divided. (McT, James, Martial, Pogba).
 

OleBoiii

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we have some players where fans are completely divided. (McT, James, Martial, Pogba).
Really? I feel that the vast majority more or less agree on the mentioned players, although Martial and Pogba fanboys seem to be a very vocal minority.


McT = Good squad player. Very useful for certain games. Still relatively young, so could eventually become a sure starter.

James = Has obviously not been good enough up until now. Luckily he was cheap and he's still young. The fans seem a bit split on whether we should sell him already, but I think even his fans will admit that he's not been good enough.

Martial = Good player, but highly inconsistent. Most fans wouldn't care that much if he was sold, provided we had another striker coming in.

Pogba = Similar to Martial, but with a higher ceiling and floor. A bit of a nuisance off the pitch. Very difficult to slot into the starting XI as he requires a top class DM next to him.
 

tomaldinho1

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Really? I feel that the vast majority more or less agree on the mentioned players, although Martial and Pogba fanboys seem to be a very vocal minority.


McT = Good squad player. Very useful for certain games. Still relatively young, so could eventually become a sure starter.

James = Has obviously not been good enough up until now. Luckily he was cheap and he's still young. The fans seem a bit split on whether we should sell him already, but I think even his fans will admit that he's not been good enough.

Martial = Good player, but highly inconsistent. Most fans wouldn't care that much if he was sold, provided we had another striker coming in.

Pogba = Similar to Martial, but with a higher ceiling and floor. A bit of a nuisance off the pitch. Very difficult to slot into the starting XI as he requires a top class DM next to him.
McT I think divides opinion a lot more that. I also think it's completely fair if people really don't rate him or think he could be a valuable player for us, he's young, his form is quite erratic but he's shown promise. I like him but I don't think he should start for us. I've seen people calling him average/poor and I have no problem with it, we'll see in a few years!
 

Andycoleno9

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Really? I feel that the vast majority more or less agree on the mentioned players, although Martial and Pogba fanboys seem to be a very vocal minority.


McT = Good squad player. Very useful for certain games. Still relatively young, so could eventually become a sure starter.

James = Has obviously not been good enough up until now. Luckily he was cheap and he's still young. The fans seem a bit split on whether we should sell him already, but I think even his fans will admit that he's not been good enough.

Martial = Good player, but highly inconsistent. Most fans wouldn't care that much if he was sold, provided we had another striker coming in.

Pogba = Similar to Martial, but with a higher ceiling and floor. A bit of a nuisance off the pitch. Very difficult to slot into the starting XI as he requires a top class DM next to him.
Damn, we (me and you) don't agree about any of those players :lol:
 

OleBoiii

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Damn, we (me and you) don't agree about any of those players :lol:
Well then it's no wonder you think the fanbase is split :D

I'm curious about your take on these players, though! I feel that I went straight down the middle with all of them, apart from James. Do you think James has been good for us?
 

Andycoleno9

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Well then it's no wonder you think the fanbase is split :D

I'm curious about your take on these players, though! I feel that I went straight down the middle with all of them, apart from James. Do you think James has been good for us?
I am very demanding towards our players because imo, squad player or first team player must be United quality. And that doesn't mean that we must have 22 world class players but certain standards must be reached. And for me "passion" or "runs all day" are not traits. Technique, skill, passing etc....are traits (for midfielder and attacker for example) so McT and James are nowhere near good enough for United. They are midtable players (at best).

Pogba is fantastic player, by far our best mc who i agree, didn't reached heights what we expected, but was nowhere near bad for us as some think here. And i want him to stay.
Martial; yes, he is tricky one. But based on his talent and some parts of his career when he was great, i think that he can be first 11 player.

What can i say? I rate skill. I respect that i am to demanding but what is the use of attacker who "runs his socks off" when he can't dribble or shoot? What is the use of midfielder who "is United through and through" but who can't pass or control the ball?
 

OleBoiii

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@Andycoleno9

It seems that the only player we really disagree on is McTominay then. We more or less agree completely on James and Martial. You rate Pogba a little higher than me, but not preposterously so.

Keep in mind that I don't want to sell Pogba and Martial. It's just that I wouldn't care that much if we did.

I wouldn't say you're that demanding(as evidenced by how highly you rate Pogba and Martial). But you're maybe a bit particular? Personally, I think consistency, adaptability, fitness and mental fortitude are almost as important as pure skill.
 

Ali Dia

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I don't think that we have civil war (especially in terms in OP post) but besides Ole (in or out) we have some players where fans are completely divided. (McT, James, Martial, Pogba).
You could add Rashford DDG Fred Lindelof and previously Maguire and Shaw onto that list too. Is this because players brands are now more seen as separate/in some cases for some fans possibly even more important than the specific clubs they represent?

A new kind of brand loyalty?

I just want United to get back to winning. The players stop mattering nearly as much to me when they move on. When we do start winning again all the players that divided people so much will surely be great again.
 

kouroux

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You could add Rashford DDG Fred Lindelof and previously Maguire and Shaw onto that list too. Is this because players brands are now more seen as separate/in some cases for some fans possibly even more important than the specific clubs they represent?

A new kind of brand loyalty?

I just want United to get back to winning. The players stop mattering nearly as much to me when they move on. When we do start winning again all the players that divided people so much will surely be great again.
I highly doubt it when it comes to your last paragraph. The caf is a good place for moaning and it's been doing it consistently even in the most successful periods. Winning will never stop some being savage on some players
 

JebelSherif

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If you ask me which camp I belong to, I'd say I'm a bit of both. Bruno and Pogba are world class footballers, in an ideal world Ole needs to go, Shaw has proved me wrong, Maguire is still a question mark in fast-paced Premier League, Rashford is slightly overrated, Fred and McTominay should be nowhere near our first eleven, Martial is fecking lazy, Bailly is better than Lindelof and Van de Beek deserves more games!
Between now and the 13th August there will be thousands, no hundreds of thousands of words written debating the pros and cons of Man Utds. main players and the Manager too. But really - this says all that needs to be said!

Its brilliant.

Kopral, can you just give us your views on the transfers (in) just before the season starts!
 
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Andycoleno9

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@Andycoleno9

It seems that the only player we really disagree on is McTominay then. We more or less agree completely on James and Martial. You rate Pogba a little higher than me, but not preposterously so.

Keep in mind that I don't want to sell Pogba and Martial. It's just that I wouldn't care that much if we did.

I wouldn't say you're that demanding(as evidenced by how highly you rate Pogba and Martial). But you're maybe a bit particular? Personally, I think consistency, adaptability, fitness and mental fortitude are almost as important as pure skill.
I agree that mental and fitness traits are important. Of course they are. But i can't accept that player is good enough for Man Utd just because he gives 100%. Giving 100% is bare minimum for any player in any club.
 

OleBoiii

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But i can't accept that player is good enough for Man Utd just because he gives 100%.
I agree.

I think McTominay brings much more than just hard work, though. If he became a better passer, then he'd be a great CM. It's a bit frustrating.
 

JebelSherif

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Its just been on the radio that Ole Gunnar Solskjær has signed a new contract with Manchester Utd. so at least that argument can be dropped from the 'civil war' for the time being.
 

McTerminator

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I’ve noticed this for a while but the euros seemed to amplify it. There seems to be 2 sides who all love/hate the same players

Bruno FC / Ole In
Bruno, Rashford, Maguire, Shaw, McTominay

Pogba FC / Ole out
Pogba, Martial, Fred, van de Beek, Bailly

has anyone else noticed this? Twitter is infested with it. I literally saw “United fans” wishing the worst for players like Bruno & Maguire at the euros, of course with the obligatory Pogba profile pic. What’s weird to me is they all parrot the exact same opinions as each other, particularly the Pogba side, they all hate Rashford & Bruno, they all think Maguire is a fridge & Shaw is fat, Bailly & Telles are better etc. If someone reps Pogba you can guarantee they love Martial and think Rashford/Bruno are shit. The other side are slightly less toxic but still unbearable, particularly with scrutinising every move Paul Pogba makes & making deluded claims about McTominay’s ceiling.
I can see what you're saying, but think it's harsh to include DVB. I would be in the top camp really, but don't have any really major feelings towards Fred DVB or Bailly.

Pogba and Martial can do one though.
 

thundercats

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It's different opinions that make forums, if everyone agreed all we would see is posts with "+1" or "agreed" or "good point" with very little content,

I like seeing different opinions, especially if they state their reason on why they disagree rather than using it to start an online argument.

Sometimes I see threads about ex players and the amusing thing is if since he left the club he says something not very nice about us - some people will say he was a crap player for us when he was actually very good, i find that more bizzare than the civil war.
Agreed 200%. I often have different opinions to the majority here since I joined a few weeks ago. I can already tell some people just think I’m a wum which can’t be further from the truth.

There are a lot of short sighted opinions around
 

Sayros

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You could add Rashford DDG Fred Lindelof and previously Maguire and Shaw onto that list too. Is this because players brands are now more seen as separate/in some cases for some fans possibly even more important than the specific clubs they represent?

A new kind of brand loyalty?

I just want United to get back to winning. The players stop mattering nearly as much to me when they move on. When we do start winning again all the players that divided people so much will surely be great again.
I'm not the poster you quoted, but I wanted to highlight this post because I really think the younger generation is a lot less loyal to clubs than they are to simply appreciating individual players, regardless of the club they're in (I'm in my 30's but I also don't really feel much care for club loyalty). In general, it feels like there's a shift across sports from teams to players taking control in a way we never saw in sports before. That's not to say club fans are going away or aren't the majority, but on social media (which always seems to be more people than it really is), I do think there is something to the player or brand loyalty over a club. We definitely see it with CR7 fans and the jump in social media clout whenever he moved to Juventus. Those obviously aren't Madrid fans just keeping an eye on their boy.