The Overlap Live Fan Debate

[Kush]

Neville is such a tit

Still pretending he didn’t drop a bollock, when he wrote Harry Kane would win us the Premier League and now he’s doing mental gymnastics to justify it. Pressing is the main reason ffs

Also, how deep you have to be reaching to bring out Barcelona away in 07/08 and Ronaldo playing up top with Tevez, Park and Rooney doing the donkey work as a stick to beat Ronaldo? As if, we played the teams of their quality throughout the season!

I wonder how Ronaldo won so much in his career, when he was such a huge handicap for the style he imposed on his team

Nothing but more excuses and bullshit from Neville to beat around the bush and not call out the elephant in the room.

 

[Spoony]

The Arse fan, clearly a sandwich short...

 

[groovyalbert]

I thought Neville made an interesting point about how much the likes of Tevez and Rooney had to sacrifice in order to accommodate Ronaldo back in the day, and that there is no way he can be expected to press/track-back.

With that in mind, trying to work a lot of our top attackers around him becomes tricky. With the exception of Bruno and Cavani, we don't really have players who can help offset Ronaldo's role in the team.

 

[roonster09]

Also, how deep you have to be reaching to bring out Barcelona away in 07/08 and Ronaldo playing up top with Tevez, Park and Rooney doing the donkey work as a stick to beat Ronaldo? As if, we played the teams of their quality throughout the season!

Did he really bring that to criticize Ronaldo?

Anything to defend Ole ffs.

 

[Spoony]

It's possible that Ronaldo's that elephant in that room. He's created a feel good factor though. If he needs players around him to work like donkeys, then our team is further away from success than we thought.

 

[Dante]

I thought Neville made an interesting point about how much the likes of Tevez and Rooney had to sacrifice in order to accommodate Ronaldo back in the day, and that there is no way he can be expected to press/track-back.

With that in mind, trying to work a lot of our top attackers around him becomes tricky. With the exception of Bruno and Cavani, we don't really have players who can help offset Ronaldo's role in the team.

Not for a high press.

But what Ole's doing instead is pushing the entire formation up into a 2-2-6 during attacks. It gives us numbers up front even if they're not all running around like madmen. People on this forum scoff at McFred, but they're honestly crucial to letting United get the most out of our talented players.

 

[Spoony]

Although I did chuckle when Carragher pointed out that Kane doesn't press either.

 

[Solius]

Ty thinks that because the PL schedule meant they ended up with a match to win the league at our ground it means they're bigger than us.

 

[Kush]

Did he really bring that to criticize Ronaldo?

Anything to defend Ole ffs.

As with everything, he didn’t bluntly state that. But, that was the gist of his point. Ronaldo doesn’t press, Utd are too open and they get punished aka not going to win the league. Carragher called him out in his BS by saying Kane in recent times doesn’t press either.

Watch from 11:30 onwards, some stupendous mental gymnastics by Neville.

 

[roonster09]

As with everything, he didn’t bluntly state that. But, that was the gist of his point. Ronaldo doesn’t press, Utd are too open and they get punished aka not going to win the league. Carragher called him out in his BS by saying Kane in recent times doesn’t press either.

Watch from 11:30 onwards, some stupendous mental gymnastics by Neville.

I'm not going to watch it, they talk too much shit.

 

[VP89]

It's a very good concept and I enjoy the debate. The only annoyance is the fans selected appear to be a reasonable and measured bunch so what the feck is TY doing there? If I were an Arsenal fan I'd be annoyed. There's what 10 minutes to talk about Arsenal and this bellend takes up 7 of them complaining that they're not a bigger club than United. They could have spent the time toward actually debating Arsenal a bit more.

The Kick Off have an Arsenal guy now and I think he's really good:

Here's a bit of him in a wider segment 1 month ago in case anyone wanted a listen to an actual sound Arsenal fan. AFTV have painted most of them in a bad way

 

[Kush]

It's possible that Ronaldo's that elephant in that room. He's created a feel good factor though. If he needs players around him to work like donkeys, then our team is further away from success than we thought.

Then why even sign Ronaldo in first instance? Why not let him go to Manchester City where his signing would cause all these “problems” where they’d become more open to play against?

Something doesn’t add up!

Our team is further away from success due to Ole and his minions who should never be in this job. You know this deep down too.

 

[charlenefan]

Neville is such a tit

Still pretending he didn’t drop a bollock, when he wrote Harry Kane would win us the Premier League and now he’s doing mental gymnastics to justify it. Pressing is the main reason ffs

Also, how deep you have to be reaching to bring out Barcelona away in 07/08 and Ronaldo playing up top with Tevez, Park and Rooney doing the donkey work as a stick to beat Ronaldo? As if, we played the teams of their quality throughout the season!

I wonder how Ronaldo won so much in his career, when he was such a huge handicap for the style he imposed on his team

Nothing but more excuses and bullshit from Neville to beat around the bush and not call out the elephant in the room.

Everywhere Ronaldo has been his teammates have had to make sacrifices for him, look at Benzema at Real Madrid and how his numbers and stature has grown since Ronaldo left

You can call Neville at tit all you want but he knows what he's talking about

 

[Spoony]

Then why even sign Ronaldo in first instance? Why not let him go to Manchester City where his signing would cause all these “problems” where they’d become more open to play against?

Something doesn’t add up!

Our team is further away from success due to Ole and his minions who should never be in this job. You know this deep down too.

He was a romantic signing he's also worth it for other reasons. We'll see though.

 

[Zoo]

It was good until Ty. He was making no sense and they just seemed to pander to him probably knowing that it gets the clicks. Also his mate Pippa brought along her tinfoil hat.

 

[Adisa]

Although I did chuckle when Carragher pointed out that Kane doesn't press either.

Exactly. It's a nonsense argument.

 

[Kush]

Everywhere Ronaldo has been his teammates have had to make sacrifices for him, look at Benzema at Real Madrid and how his numbers and stature has grown since Ronaldo left

You can call Neville at tit all you want but he knows what he's talking about

I know this, but he isn’t such a huge handicap where he’s making this team easy to play against just by himself. We’ve been open a lot of times under Ole with different set of personnel, up top.

And sorry, if a signing like Ronaldo has such a huge detriment to a team, then wouldn’t it be wise to let him go to Manchester City are ruin their perfect in-sync unit both in attack and defence? Kill two birds with one stone! Like I said something doesn’t add up.

I called him a tit because he’s still sticking to his guns on Harry Kane winning is the league because he presses, which is total bollocks. Neville knows what he’s talking about until he contradicts himself or has a mate to protect.

 

[Spoony]

It was good until Ty. He was making no sense and they just seemed to pander to him probably knowing that it gets the clicks. Also his mate Pippa brought along her tinfoil hat.

They let him on because he's the village idiot and everyone laughs at him.p

 

[cyberman]

Everywhere Ronaldo has been his teammates have had to make sacrifices for him, look at Benzema at Real Madrid and how his numbers and stature has grown since Ronaldo left

You can call Neville at tit all you want but he knows what he's talking about

Benzene has always been world class, it just shows better make when he isn’t being outshone by perhaps the greatest player to ever play the game playing alongside him

 

[groovyalbert]

Neville is such a tit

Still pretending he didn’t drop a bollock, when he wrote Harry Kane would win us the Premier League and now he’s doing mental gymnastics to justify it. Pressing is the main reason ffs

Also, how deep you have to be reaching to bring out Barcelona away in 07/08 and Ronaldo playing up top with Tevez, Park and Rooney doing the donkey work as a stick to beat Ronaldo? As if, we played the teams of their quality throughout the season!

I wonder how Ronaldo won so much in his career, when he was such a huge handicap for the style he imposed on his team

Nothing but more excuses and bullshit from Neville to beat around the bush and not call out the elephant in the room.

Think that's a bit simplistic - Neville mentioned that game as an example of a time where "sacrificing" the likes of Rooney and Tevez, and using Park's engines, really helped. He also said this was a tactic SAF often deployed in big games, which is also true.

It's not a dig at Ronaldo to say that the best clubs build their teams to suit their best players. Ronaldo is an incredible asset to have, but you do need to offset him by having players who can cover for him/create chances - particularly at this stage in his career. It's what pretty much all top teams have to do (and what Ronaldo had at every club he won top trophies) - you have your star players who win you games, but you need the workers to ensure those players have the platform to do that.

We lack the players to provide us that platform - McFred is a too porous midfield currently, and we don't really have the attackers to provide consistent and effective high-presses. Instead we end up keeping possession with lots of players in the opposition's half, and are susceptible to the break - this is pretty much how every goal we've conceded this season has come about.

We've got an incredible squad on paper, but sadly we're not seeing that materialise on the pitch right now. There's lots I think Ole can/should be blamed for, but I think the major issues facing us would be tricky for all but the best managers in the world to contend with (sadly, those at our biggest rivals).

 

[Adisa]

Everywhere Ronaldo has been his teammates have had to make sacrifices for him, look at Benzema at Real Madrid and how his numbers and stature has grown since Ronaldo left

You can call Neville at tit all you want but he knows what he's talking about

According to Neville, those sacrifices are the difference between this team being where it is and winning the league. That's beyond nonsensical.
The defensive work rate between Kane and Ronaldo is marginal.

 

[Jaxa]

Ty is the epitome of Football Twitter, nonsensical arguments trying to prove a point with no basis or real logic,

He's a 12 year old boy in a grown mans body, proper weirdo

 

[GoonerBear]

They let him on because he's the village idiot and everyone laughs at him.p

Basically. And @VP89 is right, it's quite annoying when you want some reasoned discussion about your club & it's Ty they wheel out.

I watch some AFTV videos & there's plenty even on there that would offer more reasoned discussion, & that's saying something. I deliberately skip Ty's videos as I can't stand listening to him, he just talk so much sh!t it makes my ears bleed.

 

[Xaviesta]

Imagine how unbearable Ty will be if Arsenal become title challengers again.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Everywhere Ronaldo has been his teammates have had to make sacrifices for him, look at Benzema at Real Madrid and how his numbers and stature has grown since Ronaldo left

You can call Neville at tit all you want but he knows what he's talking about

He's right but there definitely seems to be a bit of resentment there at the free ride SAF gave Ronaldo compared to the rest of the team

 

[Vault Dweller]

It's getting tiresome some of the stuff being said in order to beat on Ronaldo with.

How about we just don't play to a way that maximises his strengths? He is literally one of the greatest goalscorers and players of all time, and still scores goals. Surely, then, you try and create loads of chances by using the ball quickly and keeping possession in a manner that allows you to get the ball around him and make chances?

Yes the game has changed, but my word not having one player, your fecking centre forward, press should not significantly impact everything else about the team. The matter is this, we have bought Ronaldo and as far as I can see Ole has no clue yet how best to utilise him.

 

[WeePat]

Bloody hell, I had to turn the volume down when Carragher started squealing at that City fan around the 20th minute.

 

[Lay]

I skipped the Arsenal part but before that was a decent watch.

 

[WeePat]

Also, I hope they don't bring Scholes back for these. He's terrible to listen to.

 

[Kaos]

Also, I hope they don't bring Scholes back for these. He's terrible to listen to.

Yep, would rather they just kept Keane tbh.

 

[11101]

Everywhere Ronaldo has been his teammates have had to make sacrifices for him, look at Benzema at Real Madrid and how his numbers and stature has grown since Ronaldo left

You can call Neville at tit all you want but he knows what he's talking about

That's what you get with great players. Benzema might be better now but what exactly have Madrid done since Ronaldo left? Do you think Barcelona didn't sacrifice to get the best from Messi? Of course they did. You build your team around your best players, if you want to win anything at least.

He also said Ronaldo doesn't work out in the big games?? He couldn't speak more nonsense if he tried. He's got 5 Champions Leagues ffs.

 

[Bubz27]

That City fan is a prick so glad Carragher was rude to him.

 

[Dante]

Think that's a bit simplistic - Neville mentioned that game as an example of a time where "sacrificing" the likes of Rooney and Tevez, and using Park's engines, really helped. He also said this was a tactic SAF often deployed in big games, which is also true.

It's not a dig at Ronaldo to say that the best clubs build their teams to suit their best players. Ronaldo is an incredible asset to have, but you do need to offset him by having players who can cover for him/create chances - particularly at this stage in his career. It's what pretty much all top teams have to do (and what Ronaldo had at every club he won top trophies) - you have your star players who win you games, but you need the workers to ensure those players have the platform to do that.

We lack the players to provide us that platform - McFred is a too porous midfield currently, and we don't really have the attackers to provide consistent and effective high-presses. Instead we end up keeping possession with lots of players in the opposition's half, and are susceptible to the break - this is pretty much how every goal we've conceded this season has come about.

We've got an incredible squad on paper, but sadly we're not seeing that materialise on the pitch right now. There's lots I think Ole can/should be blamed for, but I think the major issues facing us would be tricky for all but the best managers in the world to contend with (sadly, those at our biggest rivals).

Good post. A rare example of someone who gets it totally right.

 

[tenpoless]

Everywhere Ronaldo has been his teammates have had to make sacrifices for him, look at Benzema at Real Madrid and how his numbers and stature has grown since Ronaldo left

But it's kinda worth it wasn't it? what has Madrid won since Ronaldo left?

 

[Dante]

Debate 2 part 2

Lots more stuff about Newcastle.

 

[SilentWitness]

The City lad does waffle a bit and I think Carragher was trying to joke about it but it comes across bad because it’s a ‘celeb’ pundit doing it to an average fan who makes YouTube content and people will take it as a TV hates YouTube/doesn’t want them to be successful schtick. Some of the fans come across well and some just aren’t cut out for the bigger forums. Ty is shite too. I know they get him on to laugh at but it’s a bit sad and demeaning to him that they do.

 

[WeePat]

Debate 2 part 2

Lots more stuff about Newcastle.

Nice chat to be honest, but I was rolling my eyes when Carragher around minute 11 starting waffling about what a big club Newcastle, placing them in the tier below United, Liverpool and Arsenal historically. No title in 100 years, and no trophy of any kind in about 50 years. They're a small to mid-sized club with a huge stadium.

 

[Dante]

Nice chat to be honest, but I was rolling my eyes when Carragher around minute 11 starting waffling about what a big club Newcastle, placing them in the tier below United, Liverpool and Arsenal historically. No title in 100 years, and no trophy of any kind in about 50 years. They're a small to mid-sized club with a huge stadium.

What would your tiers be? For me it's:

Tier 1: United
Tier 2: Liverpool
Tier 3: Chelsea, Arsenal
Tier 4: City, Everton, Tottenham, Villa
Tier 5: West Ham, Leeds, Leicester, Newcastle

At best, Newcastle are in the range of 9th to 12th biggest club in England. But what they have going for them is a potentially huge catchment area. The room for growth in the North East is massive compared to other major cities like Manchester, London or Birmingham.

 

[Oranges038]

Newcastle fans are a laugh, love Benitez. Hate Bruce, who has done as well as Benitez did.

Who do they want as manager?

Rodgers - Fair enough, he's done a good job at Leicester.
Eddie Howe - Highest points total was 46 - Relegated with Bournemouth and finished below Bruce and Newcastle.
Potter - Better manager than Bruce? - Finished below Bruce and Newcastle. He'd be relegated with this current Newcastle team.

 

[WeePat]

What would your tiers be? For me it's:

Tier 1: United
Tier 2: Liverpool
Tier 3: Chelsea, Arsenal
Tier 4: City, Everton, Tottenham, Villa
Tier 5: West Ham, Leeds, Leicester, Newcastle

At best, Newcastle are in the range of 9th to 12th biggest club in England. But what they have going for them is a potentially huge catchment area. The room for growth in the North East is massive compared to other major cities like Manchester, London or Birmingham.

I'd definitely put United and Liverpool in the same tier, then move everyone else up a level, but otherwise I'd agree with those tiers.

The potential with Newcastle is massive though. Being a one club city in such a big city is a big advantage they have over those other cities you mentioned.