Wrighty is a good egg.
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood), Imran (@Annihilate Now!) & Jamie (@Vault Dweller) celebrate a fantastic victory as Manchester United won 2-0 in the Derby. They celebrate the changes Carrick has made, discuss our new coaching team and find time to play a Stupid Game. Enjoy!
Aye. Shows how crazy the football world has jumped within a decade though. Neville biggest at 1.75m a year to Keane at 5.5m a year to Rooney at 17m a year.
I like Wright and thankfully he has changed a lot of his views but this is still very funny
They should rename the cast to stick to Co92. It's all the same faces again.
I wish they'd invite other big names like Zidane or Zlatan or someone outside United
I wish they'd invite other big names like Zidane or Zlatan or someone outside United
But most of the hate towards becks was because of what he did on the pitch. Black players like Sterling got hate because of stuff he's done off the pitch.
and what did Sterling do that was so bad off the pitch?
I obviously don’t have any insider knowledge but you’d think that they would’ve tried to invite Zidane already and he either doesn’t want to or can’t do it yet. They’re quite open to inviting foreign stars.
I said all this stuff on here many times over the years in relation to Pogba. One of the most disliked players I’ve ever seen here, and it was inevitable. He’s everything that people instinctively dislike here. Yea sure, people will try and justify it with ‘his AGENT said he’s looking at options’ (as have hundreds of agents about hundreds of players) and any small thing is used as self-fulfilling. It then led to the discrediting of his actual work on the pitch. Any flaw was overly discussed, and you would think that he was not easily better than 90% of his peers most of the time.
The subliminal root cause was the hair, the dancing, the ‘attitude’ and ultimately, the skin colour. Of that I am truly convinced. Nobody can tell me that if a white player, came to the PL and replicated Pogba’s performances identically, without changing anything - the conversation would not be far far more glowing about him. Worse still, if it were an Englishman - there is absolutely no way that he’d have been spoken of as the big waster he was made out to be, certainly before his injuries.
Players like Kanté or Saka are such ‘loveable good boys’. But I never heard anyone talk about James Maddison’s hair when he used to dye it blonde and put bloody alice bands in it. On Redcafe, we had a whole thread entitled ‘does a player’s hair matter’ (or something to that effect) to discuss the folly of Pogba putring dye in his hair, which lasted days, and probably would have lasted a lot more if not for the misfortune of the fact that in his very next game - he went and scored 2 goals at the Etihad to win us the game which was probably inconveniently timed.
Even if we move out of football, in almost any sector in the UK, it is incredibly easy for a black person to be slapped with an ‘attitude problem’ label. I can 100% guarantee that many people in football have thrown Victor Osimhen on the ‘are we sure we want that sort of character at the club’ pile too, I saw those comments on here over the last year or so. It really doesn’t take much at all. He’s a striker who has scored a lot of goals for club and country, winning titles, and is young in a market where strikers are scarce - but of course he’s just a greedy mercenary for wanting to be paid as a superstar. No chance Osimhen goes to Turkey at 26 if he were white IMO. A PL club puts up the money for him.
The subliminal root cause was the hair, the dancing, the ‘attitude’ and ultimately, the skin colour. Of that I am truly convinced. Nobody can tell me that if a white player, came to the PL and replicated Pogba’s performances identically, without changing anything - the conversation would not be far far more glowing about him. Worse still, if it were an Englishman - there is absolutely no way that he’d have been spoken of as the big waster he was made out to be, certainly before his injuries.
Players like Kanté or Saka are such ‘loveable good boys’. But I never heard anyone talk about James Maddison’s hair when he used to dye it blonde and put bloody alice bands in it. On Redcafe, we had a whole thread entitled ‘does a player’s hair matter’ (or something to that effect) to discuss the folly of Pogba putring dye in his hair, which lasted days, and probably would have lasted a lot more if not for the misfortune of the fact that in his very next game - he went and scored 2 goals at the Etihad to win us the game which was probably inconveniently timed.
Even if we move out of football, in almost any sector in the UK, it is incredibly easy for a black person to be slapped with an ‘attitude problem’ label. I can 100% guarantee that many people in football have thrown Victor Osimhen on the ‘are we sure we want that sort of character at the club’ pile too, I saw those comments on here over the last year or so. It really doesn’t take much at all. He’s a striker who has scored a lot of goals for club and country, winning titles, and is young in a market where strikers are scarce - but of course he’s just a greedy mercenary for wanting to be paid as a superstar. No chance Osimhen goes to Turkey at 26 if he were white IMO. A PL club puts up the money for him.
I like Wright and thankfully he has changed a lot of his views but this is still very funny
As people have gone over in the Osimhen thread multiple times, he would have to be almost the best paid player in the PL to be on the same wages that he gets at Turkey and he's only had one great season in a top league. The reason PL clubs didn't sign him is nothing to do with race.
That's my point.
I remember uproar about Sterling because he had a gun tattoo on his leg. Another uproar because he bought an expensive mansion or something. The hate he got was nothing related to football.
Not a single player before or since has had the scrutiny Beckham got
Manchester United are the blacks of the Premier League, or something.
And maybe he would have been a lot closer to being considered worth it if he were from a different background. I can pick plenty decent PL players that there have likely only been a handful of African players EVER in football (outside of Saudi/China etc) who have earned more than them. Jack Grealish, for one, who I believe is on £300k at City.
There is a pay disparity between African footballers and their equivalents from other places.
He is a national treasure. When Eni Aluko went for him, it was the equivalent to having a pop at David Attenborough.
Buy a house for his mum?
It's mad people still go to this incident, coming up 30 years ago. "Can't be true, Beckham got it worse" is not a defence.
Black players are treated differently, held to a different standard. Quite frankly I don't care what happened to sir David Beckham 30 years ago because it doesn't have any bearing on how the media treats black players today.
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Buy a house for his mum?
It's mad people still go to this incident, coming up 30 years ago. "Can't be true, Beckham got it worse" is not a defence.
Black players are treated differently, held to a different standard. Quite frankly I don't care what happened to sir David Beckham 30 years ago because it doesn't have any baring on how the media treats black players today.
Yeah, not a great look for a person from a minority themselves to have written an article like the one on the left.
I agree with Ian Wright but at the same time it doesn’t mean that Bellingham can’t be called out for being an arrogant tosser. I hate the way he conducts himself on the pitch, his attitude a lot of the time is quite poor.
This is a weird one where I absolutely agree with what Wrighty is saying in general. It’s pretty blatant and as the saying goes if you know you know.
That said, I’ve never been a fan of Bellingham’s attitude and behaviour. He’s always come across as contrived and fake and he’s a moany twat as well. I think the media have sank their teeth into the most easy story to generate controversy and don’t actually think there are much racial tones to his criticism, yet. But we’re only in November, all the early signs are there that it could grow and morph into something else as it has with other players. I think Wright bringing this up now is very important because it could make a few in the media really think twice about going overboard.
That said, I’ve never been a fan of Bellingham’s attitude and behaviour. He’s always come across as contrived and fake and he’s a moany twat as well. I think the media have sank their teeth into the most easy story to generate controversy and don’t actually think there are much racial tones to his criticism, yet. But we’re only in November, all the early signs are there that it could grow and morph into something else as it has with other players. I think Wright bringing this up now is very important because it could make a few in the media really think twice about going overboard.
What's your logic here?
Perspective.
You need way more data for perspective. One example gives pretty much zero perspective.One example doesn’t cancel out a whole trend. Using Beckham to dismiss racism is like saying poverty isn’t a factor in the judicial system because a millionaire once went to prison.
By far the nicest Premier League footballer who ever bought me a pint (may also be the only Premier League footballer who ever bought me a pint)
Found his comment about England not being ready for a black star to be completely out of touch. Antony Joshua, Mo Farah, Kelly Holmes, all rightfully lauded.
Football is its own world, especially regarding race. No black managers etc. Boxing and athletics have had black superstars for decades now. The racism discussion is very much alive in football, just look at what the black players have said. They would know better than me.
I have most certainly not dismissed racism. I find the responses to Bellinghams behaviour normal from anyone, he conducts himself in a way that’s easy to chat about, because he does come across as petulant at times. Personally think wright is a bit offside on this one, especially compared to what happened to Sterling which in my opinion was beyond a doubt fuelled by casual racism.
From Kick it Out.
"The figures come after policing hate crime statistics released last month showed that hate crime remained the most prevalent form of disorder at matches last season, with 420 incidents reported. Of these, 287 related to race, 140 to sexual orientation, 20 to religion, 19 to disability, and three to gender identity"
Football is behind the curve on a few issues, in the boardroom and the terraces.
"The figures come after policing hate crime statistics released last month showed that hate crime remained the most prevalent form of disorder at matches last season, with 420 incidents reported. Of these, 287 related to race, 140 to sexual orientation, 20 to religion, 19 to disability, and three to gender identity"
Football is behind the curve on a few issues, in the boardroom and the terraces.
So, racism does exist but is not at play here? You don't think that any 'deserved' criticism of Jude would be greater because of these racist elements?
I believe Abramovich essentially ramped up the upper pay scale and extra level than it was due to climb organically. Around 2006/2007 I think it was that a few of their lads got contracts north of 100k a week which was huge and then it went on from there pretty quickly.
From what I’ve seen I don’t deem it to be racist, but of course I can understand why wright can “see what’s coming” as he put it.
There are loads and loads of racist football fans in the country. It's almost impossible that it wouldn't be constantly simmering and waiting to come out if his performances slightly dropped or he's deemed to not be a "good lad" (which Wright pointed to basically means acting like he's lucky to be there).
Yep. I think it's a brilliant talk he gives there, not euphemizing anything, naming it.
Aye.
Yeah with you here. The Sterling and Rashford stuff was quite blatant with the undertones. As much as I disliked how rashford conducted himself in his last few years here, there became a period where some of the stories narratives were clear and the tones were obvious.
But yeah the Bellingham one is slightly more tricky because on the other side of the fence he’s arguably been the most overhyped and propelled England player in the last five years.
Bellingham basically up until and during the euros was put on quite a pedestal. And probably an undeserved one.
He had quite an in your face personality then too.
I don’t know what’s changed and has caused the media to turn but as per your bolded, Wrighty addressing it now may just make them think twice before they start posting their Sterling level diarrhoea journalism on Bellingham.
Sorry but this sort of thing winds me up. Pogba was criticised because he had an enormous level of talent yet frequently played like a clown. He spent years underperforming at United, was purposely problematic at times under Mourinho, then when he left got embroiled in a voodoo scandal, a family gunland feud, and then got hmself banned from playing football. It is not unfair or racist to criticise a professional footballer who is so unprofessional at football, that they get themselves banned from being allowed to play it.
Moreover, Pogba was actually endlessly defended on here, far more so than I can ever remember ANY underperforming player being defended on here. Probably because people could see that he actually had bags of ability and wanted him to show it more often or more consistently as opposed to writing him off...but, again, he instead chose to leave and get himself banned, from football.
Trying to take justified and normal criticism of a player and paint it as racism based on nothing at all, is dissingenous, counter productive and frankly out of order. It means where there is a genuine instance of a player being unfairly treated due to their race or skin colour, it is less likely to be taken as seriously as it should (which is what generally happens). It also results in accusing people who aren't racist of being racist, based on them doing absolutely nothing wrong, which is the behaviour of a child.
I don't disagree with the general idea that there is still a level of prejudice against black people in football and in general. It is actually quite blatant in the current climate how significant a problem it still is. I don't even disagree that Pogba would have had to battle this the same as any other black player (e.g. Souness and his pathetic obsession with him, the weird fascination with how he chose to dress to watch games, etc.), but there is no linking this with him getting perfectly valid criticisms for his on field performances, that are no different from those directed at any other player. Literally every Man Utd player constantly gets slated on redcafe and in the media the second they hit a patch of poor form. Often the most talented playrs get the most stick.
The Bellingham situation is different in that he probably does merit a bit of fair criticism for a drop in performance levels, but what is happening within certain (predictable) elements of the media is straying beyond that, and definitely does need to be called out. It also shouldn't be left to Ian Wright or other black players to fight these battles. Managers, pundits and players in general should be brave enough to call out and shut this down as a collective IMO. .
It's not just England if you saw the Yamal thread recently. In general folks are more accepting of white players having an "in your face" attitude, yet the threshold is lower for black players and people get polemical over their attitude even if they're literal children and all they did was bitch about Real Madrid then fail to play well after recently returning from injury.
Everyone talks about Maradona, Gazza, Rooney as if they're adorable rascals despite their drug addiction, alcoholism, domestic violence, gambling, cheating proclivities. Somehow doubt it'd be the case if they were black.
Saka, Rashford, Sterling, Guehi, Eze, most black England NT players seem nice and quiet in general, as if they're aware of a need to keep their head down to avoid trouble as a minority? Guehi oft gets comments like "what a nice, well-brought up lad" because his dad is a Christian minister, i.e. this black player was inculcated with white Christian values so he's a good boy not from the ghetto. It's a little funny.
To be honest i'd think some of the grief gazza or rooney got was due to the working class background. I'm not sure its proof that its entirely even handed or fair to what the average player faces. The average player shouldn't be facing the bullshit sections of the british press subject them to anyway. Just because other players have been mistreated doesn't make it ok
I think Wrighty is off the mark with this one (I generally like him and his opinions), an excerpt from his quote from the bbc article:
But if you get a [Paul] Pogba, or a Bellingham, and you get that kind of energy, that does not sit well with people. So someone like Jude, for some reason, frightens these people because of his capability and the inspiration he can give.
He is implying that all people have a problem with it. Which just isn't true at all.
Bellingham is inspirational for sure, but he also comes across as a bit of a twat on occasion. So do a lot of players. He happens to be one that cost £100m and went to Real Madrid, so everything he does will be under a microscope and behaving poorly when subbed isn't a good look even if it comes from a place of general frustration.
If Wirtz for example was kicking off when subbed we'd get similar articles about it (media Liverpool love-in notwithstanding). The fact he mentions Kante as someone who got his head down and did his job (inference being he did that because he was black and wanted to behave and not cause a fuss) is insulting to Kante - some players, including white players, are exactly the same. How on earth would he know what went through Kante's head or what his personality is and why?
I'd say its way more about behaviour than skin colour although I don't doubt a minority of people bring the fact Bellingham is black into their opinion of him.
But if you get a [Paul] Pogba, or a Bellingham, and you get that kind of energy, that does not sit well with people. So someone like Jude, for some reason, frightens these people because of his capability and the inspiration he can give.
He is implying that all people have a problem with it. Which just isn't true at all.
Bellingham is inspirational for sure, but he also comes across as a bit of a twat on occasion. So do a lot of players. He happens to be one that cost £100m and went to Real Madrid, so everything he does will be under a microscope and behaving poorly when subbed isn't a good look even if it comes from a place of general frustration.
If Wirtz for example was kicking off when subbed we'd get similar articles about it (media Liverpool love-in notwithstanding). The fact he mentions Kante as someone who got his head down and did his job (inference being he did that because he was black and wanted to behave and not cause a fuss) is insulting to Kante - some players, including white players, are exactly the same. How on earth would he know what went through Kante's head or what his personality is and why?
I'd say its way more about behaviour than skin colour although I don't doubt a minority of people bring the fact Bellingham is black into their opinion of him.
Bellingham isn't a shrinking violet and has a bigger personality (hate to use the word alpha unironically) than Rashford, Saka, Sterling, Guehi which is always going to rub some people the wrong way regardless of race. It's oft mentioned he wasn't liked at Dortmund because he shouted at his teammates e.g. Nico Schulz (fyi Schulz was accused of DV so nobody cared too much) but he was in the leadership group and captained the team at 19 so players much older than Jude had to contend with the fact some young English upstart who can't speak German wanted to win at all costs and was upset when it didn't happen. Madrid is a good fit because he's surrounded by bigger names, and his need to win and frustration at his own performances is perceived as healthy rather than petulant.
Rooney and Beckham had their petulant eras of getting infamous reds and still captained England so this is part of the growth process, Jude has to learn to channel his competitiveness more effectively. He has to figure out how to come across as a public personality as he ages into a senior England international; if he's very aggressive on the pitch and doesn't talk to the media off duty he'll definitely ruffle feathers if he ever wants to return to the PL.
It's interesting how Tuchel isn't trying to diffuse the situation and let's the media pressure Jude, let's see if it pays off next July.
I don’t think he meant ‘all people’ at all. I think he was referring to a specific group of people that have a subconscious bias, and I agree with him.