The positivity after losing 2-0 to our title winning rivals...

[AdamColeBebe]

What is the purpose and intended result of criticising positivity? What debate are you trying to start?

Carragher nailed it for me when he said that United did the best they could do all things considered, and that they aren't capable of doing any better than they did.

Let's get the injured players back and crack on. Realistically we were never going to win today, and could have been considerably worse than 2-0.

 

[noodlehair]

What are you talking about? We routinely do not get played off the park at Anfield under SAF. yes we have lost occasionally but we always beat them at OT.

Erm yes we did. Even when we won there we would be second best and just nick a goal due to some fluke or set piece. The only time I've seen us actually outplay Liverpool at Anfield was under Van Gaal.

Not sure what "always" beating them at Old Trafford has to do with anything but that is also wrong. Danny Murphy made a habbit of scoring winning goals at OT, and they also beat us 4-1 there.

Honestly what were some people expecting from today? It's taken us losing at Anfield for you to realise that the team about 30 points ahead of us might actually be a bit better than we are?

 

[Snow]

Not much good can come off of putting down people that are positive.

 

[Full bodied red]

Days like today clearly show how far we've slipped from the Glory Years of SAF.

Having said that, I was actually quite pleased with the way our team today didn't fold despite being outclassed. We had our chances, we gave away a poor goal, and the Ref didn't help us much.

Maybe, just maybe, some of them actually do have some professional pride and love of United which we all thought they didn't after the Watford match.

Sure, we're now light years behind Liverpool and Citeh, both as a club and on the pitch, but it hasn't turned me into a Mr Angry like so many here on TheCaf - I simply try to manage my ( revised since SAF !! ) expectations and will do until we get our own Sugar Daddy or manage to con Barcelona / Real Madrid / Juventus into coughing up £ 125 million for one of our over-rated divas and then learn how to spend that money wisely rather than blowing it on over-priced and over-hyped wannabe galacticos.

 

[U99ted]

I can't really be positive about a 2-0 loss, although granted, they are the European champions and we could have got a draw on another day. All I do is look at us not losing ground to Chelsea, and move onto the next one, where we should be beating Burnley at home.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

It’s not about standards slipping, it’s reality. Frankly, the obsession with still believing we’re the best is part of the reason why we keep failing. It’s not until we accept what we are that we can progress beyond it. Anyone who still talks about Man Utd in terms of competing for top prizes is deluded beyond belief.

With the right manager and some good investment we could challenge for top honors though. Of course if we stick with thrash and do not try to improve we will not.

 

[Josep Dowling]

‘Title rival’ I wouldn’t call us that!

 

[Big Ben Foster]

0-0 at Anfield just two seasons ago. Mourinho and the players were crucified on here and in the media for the performance. Standards have indeed slipped.

 

[Josep Dowling]

What is the purpose and intended result of criticising positivity? What debate are you trying to start?

Carragher nailed it for me when he said that United did the best they could do all things considered, and that they aren't capable of doing any better than they did.

Let's get the injured players back and crack on. Realistically we were never going to win today, and could have been considerably worse than 2-0.

He was making that point to criticise Ole for the lack of coaching the team. He repeated many times United players don’t improve when they sign for us.

 

[TheGame]

Not much good can come off of putting down people that are positive.

Some people on this forum make a good job of it.

 

[Smores]

0-0 at Anfield just two seasons ago. Mourinho and the players were crucified on here and in the media for the performance. Standards have indeed slipped.

Shh you're not allowed to point out people's previous opinions. They're happy being hypocrites.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

0-0 at Anfield just two seasons ago. Mourinho and the players were crucified on here and in the media for the performance. Standards have indeed slipped.

Yeah although at that season we wanted to challenge for the league and had started very well scoring goals for fun most of the time.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Days like today clearly show how far we've slipped from the Glory Years of SAF.

Having said that, I was actually quite pleased with the way our team today didn't fold despite being outclassed. We had our chances, we gave away a poor goal, and the Ref didn't help us much.

Maybe, just maybe, some of them actually do have some professional pride and love of United which we all thought they didn't after the Watford match.

Sure, we're now light years behind Liverpool and Citeh, both as a club and on the pitch, but it hasn't turned me into a Mr Angry like so many here on TheCaf - I simply try to manage my ( revised since SAF !! ) expectations and will do until we get our own Sugar Daddy or manage to con Barcelona / Real Madrid / Juventus into coughing up £ 125 million for one of our over-rated divas and then learn how to spend that money wisely rather than blowing it on over-priced and over-hyped wannabe galacticos.

Haven’t we tried to do that this summer and ended up with a world record CB that isnt world class and a RB who can only run backwards and tackle someone?

 

[christy87]

We were without 3 of our better players and we were still in the game with minutes to go

 

[Josep Dowling]

0-0 at Anfield just two seasons ago. Mourinho and the players were crucified on here and in the media for the performance. Standards have indeed slipped.

This is very true. The expectation levels on Mourinho’s United was on a different scale to any other manager we have had post Fergie.

 

[eire-red]

We've experienced a lot of bad days at Anfield, under SAF as well. There are positives to take from the game, as with all games. I get what bugs a lot of people, the attitude that it was 'not bad all things considered'. There's no shame in getting beat by Liverpool, but we shouldn't be trying to polish it into something that it's not.

These losses always sting the worst, but games like this don't define a season. It's the Everton, Watford, Crytsal Palace, West Ham etc. performances that have cost us dearly. That's the obvious area of improvement. Let's not make this into something it's not.

 

[Phil]

Brave person for mentioning this, absolutely true for me.

We were outplayed and outclassed but our players tried their hardest, it’s something?

 

[Steve Bruce]

I can't fault the players effort today. They are just not good enough. We where beaten by abetter team of players.

That's not being positive or negative about the team. It's the reality of what happened.

I'm annoyed at the result. But the effort was their, we're just far from good enough.

 

[Full bodied red]

Haven’t we tried to do that this summer and ended up with a world record CB that isnt world class and a RB who can only run backwards and tackle someone?

.

Quite agree.

Both of them ( plus James ) have still to convince me that they're not going to be added to the list of not as-good-as-we-hoped-they'd-be signings the past four years.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

This is very true. The expectation levels on Mourinho’s United was on a different scale to any other manager we have had post Fergie.

People expected great from Moyes too and attacked him when he didn't deliver.
We was 2 points from top 4 around New year and I don't think anyone was happy with that and wanted us to fight for the league.

LVG got away with things because Moyes was before him and for some reason he had loads of people defending him too.

Mourinho has been a big winner so people expected him to win things here too so understandably expectations was at the top.

Ole is not that great so people expect nothing.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Lots of people are negative and some are positive. Good with a mix.
There was some good things in the performance, but the bigger picture is a massive worry.
Our attack now without Rashford look very poor.

Our overall management of the squad is terrible right now. Both from Ole and from those above him.

There is still a good fighting spirit around, but that is not enough. We need more than that.

Pissed about the result though and everyone should be. If you are not I wonder what kind of supporter you are.

We saw how Rashford struggled when Martial was out. Martial will struggle playing without Rashford.

 

[bdecuc]

I know it’s immensely frustrating. Liverpool are walking the league, we’ve got parasite owners, we can’t get a signing across the line to save our lives and we’ve overplayed our players such that Pogba, McTominay and Rashford are medium term injured.

However I see genuine progress. The attitude is miles better than a year ago. We’ve have some fight now. We’re playing with some bravery and attacking intent. We’re actually playing (our genuinely trying to play) good football.

Of course there’s mistakes, we’ve a lot to improve but it is improving. Rashford, McTominay and either Pogba or Fernandes will eventually transform that team.

People scoffed at Fred like lemmings. Away in Paris last season showed anyone paying attention that there was a pretty good player in there. Same with McTominay. Greenwood with a bit of luck, hard work and patience could be a world-class attacker. The defense is improving. Maguire isn’t perfect but he’s a definite upgrade and seems to have good character. Wan-Bissaka again is a real improvement. Sure he hasn’t the instincts of a winger but have you seen a better one-on-one defender? Not sure I have.

There’s positives. I like this team. I like the manager. He needs to be backed. No excuses.

The club needs to act like its purpose is to win at football. It is not the purpose of Manchester United to make money for a family of venture capitalists in Florida.

 

[littleman]

And in the Martial thread, posters talk about how he didn't fail today because he RESEMBLED a footballer

You don't need to be one

You just need to resemble one

Welcome to Manchester United

 

[Lentwood]

Of course you can be positive after a defeat

Even the very best teams lose. What managers want to see is that the team competes, stays in the game and doesn’t let their heads go down

At times in years gone by if we had conceded an early goal to a team as good as Liverpool we’d have lost 3 or 4 nil. Instead we were in it right until the last minute.

 

[Nigel Refalo]

Fred stepped up in the midfield against them lot and Luke Shaw burned a decent amount of Calories

 

[McGrathsipan]

Think Saha just said "Overall this is a good day for United" on MUTV. Webber: "All the boys did really well." Of course the bolded word is the key, I know.

Expected us to get absolutely hammered so we did better than I expected (or Pool was worse than I expected), but that's mainly because of the state of our squad.

I'd say we did get hammered in every way just the score line didn't reflect it.

Liverpools players to a man looked so so much stronger and I mean in a physical way. Miles ahead

 

[Mr Smith]

Maybe people are just sick of moaning?

 

[MoskvaRed]

Of course you can be positive after a defeat

Even the very best teams lose. What managers want to see is that the team competes, stays in the game and doesn’t let their heads go down

At times in years gone by if we had conceded an early goal to a team as good as Liverpool we’d have lost 3 or 4 nil. Instead we were in it right until the last minute.

We could very easily have lost by 3-4 without VAR, marginal (but correct) offsides, the post, Salah scuffing a sitter. I remember getting thrashed 4-0 at Anfield in Fergie’s early years (89?) and today, despite the eventual scoreline. felt like the most we have been outgunned since then.

 

[Morpheus 7]

Standards have slipped across the board. In management,performances, recruitment and expectations. We know the team isn't where it should be with the resources we have. The squad is so thin and the manager and board haven't done enough of what we have/what we need. I can honestly see threads popping up in the summer of 100m who do we get in. The bar has been raised so low and not only are people accepting, they tolerate it. Everyone must have a base level of where United should be on and off the pitch before protest against it happens. The net spend has been disgraceful when we are so far behind for a while. Yet many fans still go out and buy merchandise and voice little.


Nobody is saying we should be winning the league with this side, we shouldn't be dominated by teams in lower half of the table. We should be seeing progress in style of play, consistency in performances and buying upgrades all over the pitch. Fact is where are seeing none of this for ages now. It's not acceptable and praise shouldn't be given to a team that hasn't performed for ages. Again what will it take for the majority of fans to say enough is enough. This defeatist attitude of what can we do needs to do. I'll tell you what some of you can do, stop praising mediocrity and stop supporting these owners with your money. It's the only language they know.

 

[always_hoping]

What do you expect when the Manager is willing to accept a 1-0 loss to Liverpool.

Was he though? It was United pushing for a goal in the last few minutes only to be caught out very badly for that Salah goal.

 

[always_hoping]

We could very easily have lost by 3-4 without VAR, marginal (but correct) offsides, the post, Salah scuffing a sitter. I remember getting thrashed 4-0 at Anfield in Fergie’s early years (89?) and today, despite the eventual scoreline. felt like the most we have been outgunned since then.

1990 that was. The worst was Jose last game. 36 shots on goal Liverpool had and nearly 70% possession.

 

[bonothom]

It just goes to show how much Liverpool respect us that they actually played their first team against us. There's definetly positivity in that.

 

[Striker10]

They didn't beat us at home and we could have won that day. You can lose a game of football to anyone. We move on

 

[littleman]

They didn't beat us at home and we could have won that day. You can lose a game of football to anyone. We move on

WE GO AGAIN

 

[Eyepopper]

Sometimes you have to accept that the better team won.

And right now, Liverpool are a far far better team than us.

Regardless, there were plenty of positives to take from that game, we were in the game til literally the last kick of the game, the team showed plenty of flight, the tactics were pretty effective.

The alternative is to pine about how we're no longer as good as we used to be, and delude ourselves that we should realistically expect more... Which is exactly what we've spent about 25 years laughing at Liverpool fans for.

 

[WR10]

That was by far the most intense and powerful team effort that has ever been put against us since Barcelona in 09. They won every first ball, second ball, third ball with 3/4 players hounding anyone that has the luck of receiving possession. They would get the ball and relentlessly pin us in our own third when other average teams would lul and recycle/catch their breath in between center backs. They not only matched our energy levels but shat all over them in intense 10/15 minute periods.

It is the most dominated I have seen a Manchester United team since Barcelona.

We are 30 points apart.

You take every positive you can out of a day like this. If you don't - what's the point of life?

 

[Tarrou]

I didn't see a whole lot to be positive about, I'm too gutted about the result and Rashford right now. I'd never criticise others for looking to the positives though.

This idea that we are lowering the standards is nonsense. The abject failure and poor decision making for the last 7 years has lowered the standards. We are 'just' a top 6 team with a lot of injuries playing away to one of the most in-form teams in PL history, I can forgive people for not expecting much.

If Ed doesn't get his chequebook out now the protests will flare up big time.

 

[sparx99]

However I see genuine progress. The attitude is miles better than a year ago. We’ve have some fight now. We’re playing with some bravery and attacking intent. We’re actually playing (our genuinely trying to play) good football.

The problem is we have gone from better players with worse attitude to worse players with the right attitude. Ultimately, you need quality and attitude to succeed and we have a distinct lack of quality.

 

[Hammondo]

Haven’t we tried to do that this summer and ended up with a world record CB that isnt world class and a RB who can only run backwards and tackle someone?

Kinda the most important thing for a fullback.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Kinda the most important thing for a fullback.

Not in the modern game, you need to offer something going forward as well.