Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

Ekeke

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But all the build up was generated by people on twitter/reddit - There was never anything to actually indicate that Liv Morgan was going to be this breakout star that people were making out. They aired 1 or 2 videos of her and the rest was generated from her posting dark shit on her own twitter.
They dedicated time to vignettes of her to build her up. You don't do that for someone you dont have a decent plan for

My guess at this moment is they scrapped the plan and threw a bunch of shit together for the wedding and decided they needed a female to team with Rusev. So thats what we got.
 

Ekeke

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I will never, ever understand what the internet see in Liv Morgan.
Was easily the best worker from the Riott squad due to her bumping with the other 2 not being very good. Blonde, attractive, so Vince is probably going to push her.
 

Shane88

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Was easily the best worker from the Riott squad due to her bumping with the other 2 not being very good. Blonde, attractive, so Vince is probably going to push her.
Nonsense. Ruby is infinitely better than Liv Morgan.

And how hasn't this Vince and his blonde fetish meme died yet?
 

Ekeke

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Nonsense. Ruby is infinitely better than Liv Morgan.

And how hasn't this Vince and his blonde fetish meme died yet?
Ruby is terrible vacuum of excitement in the ring

Are you color blind? The main event was about 2 blonde women being lesbians
 

Shane88

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Ruby is terrible vacuum of excitement in the ring

Are you color blind? The main event was about 2 blonde women being lesbians
Oh please, it was hardly HLA. There was zero titillation or anything suggestive in it.

What is Liv in the ring? The only noteworthy thing she has done was be on the end of Brie's shit kicks.
 

Ekeke

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Oh please, it was hardly HLA. There was zero titillation or anything suggestive in it.

What is Liv in the ring? The only noteworthy thing she has done was be on the end of Brie's shit kicks.
She bumps really well. Makes other people look good and matches better than they would be otherwise. Other good bumpers include Sasha Banks

Not everyone is going to notice these things but its useful to make someone else look better than they are.

Now having said that, its not like Vince will give a shit how good someone is in the ring.

Thats something I like about her but I'm sure it has nothing to do with why shes been put into the final main event feud of the decade on Raw. Thats because shes blonde and didnt refuse to do a lesbian angle unlike Sable.

And as for why a bunch of people wanted her to be Sister Abigail? Well, they like Bray and dont care that he already established that she was an old black lady who took him in and taught him voodoo many years ago, and is dead. So they like Bray on the surface but not enough to do any research on his stuff or to want to make any sense of his story. Liv has been off tv so they threw 2 and 2 together - plus even if it would be shit, its better than Bray dressing as a woman like he was starting to do before the Balor feud came to an abrupt end
 

AshRK

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What a shit end to the year for wrestling fans. I thought the Fox deal and birth of AEW would mean a start to something special. Instead it has become worse. I fear for the wrestling business, instead of growing they are losing viewers. The only reason people still talk fondly about WWE is because of the past names. Something must change soon.
 

Ekeke

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What a shit end to the year for wrestling fans. I thought the Fox deal and birth of AEW would mean a start to something special. Instead it has become worse. I fear for the wrestling business, instead of growing they are losing viewers. The only reason people still talk fondly about WWE is because of the past names. Something must change soon.
You say that but its been of a pretty poor standard since the bad Invasion angle with WCW and ECW. For some of the audience, bad wrestling is as good as it gets cuz thats all they've seen. Its interesting though that WWE's main demo is 50 years old plus, so the majority of the audience have seen much much better in the past and are still watching. They're very loyal and its hard to get rid of them. But still WWE doing some of the lowest numbers they've ever done.
 

AshRK

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You say that but its been of a pretty poor standard since the bad Invasion angle with WCW and ECW. For some of the audience, bad wrestling is as good as it gets cuz thats all they've seen. Its interesting though that WWE's main demo is 50 years old plus, so the majority of the audience have seen much much better in the past and are still watching. They're very loyal and its hard to get rid of them. But still WWE doing some of the lowest numbers they've ever done.
The point is they are failing to attract new audience. Loyal supporters will keep on watching but even most of them are watching as a habit and not because they are enjoying anything. 2001 Invasion angle may have been bad but looking back and comparing that to now, that looks insanely better than what we have to endure now. The product was even pretty decent at the start of the decade. Last 4 or 5 years it has been going drastically down. Yes there are some good aspects but those good aspects are getting overshadowed by the crap they have been giving us.
 

matherto

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The point is they are failing to attract new audience. Loyal supporters will keep on watching but even most of them are watching as a habit and not because they are enjoying anything. 2001 Invasion angle may have been bad but looking back and comparing that to now, that looks insanely better than what we have to endure now. The product was even pretty decent at the start of the decade. Last 4 or 5 years it has been going drastically down. Yes there are some good aspects but those good aspects are getting overshadowed by the crap they have been giving us.
I could watch the Invasion on repeat quite happily despite it being objectively terrible whereas you’d have to pay for me to watch current WWE week in, week out and even then I’d struggle.
 

Ekeke

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Watching Dynamite now

Very good opening match between Cody and Darby Allin. Good storyline, psychology and in-ring execution. Taz has also added something on commentary

Good 4 way match for the womens title. Baker is much more palatable when shes in there with Riho and Hikaru Shida, two good workers

Moxley Vs. Trent was pretty good, did the job for what Mox is about.

Sammy Vs. Dustin told another good story and a decent match

MJF being an asshole as always

Main event was set up with the cold open to the show, and was a great all action match. As good a 6 man tag as you'll see in 2020 I'm sure.

Good show
 

Ekeke

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So a few days ago I was in here saying Ruby Riott isnt a good worker, that shes not at all exciting. I should probably have explained a little more at the time why I think that. But instead, this post came to mind while I was starting to watch some of the matches in 2019 that people had suggested were in the top 10 Joshi matches of the year.

This was the very first match I watched that had been suggested. And the reason I went straight to this match is because in 2018 they had their previous big one on one match and that was my womens match of the year. So I knew they wouldnt disappoint. Since its on youtube and I was looking at it in detail anyway, I thought it was a perfect example of what I think a very good womens wrestling match looks like.

Nanae Vs Arisa




1) They look like they’re having something of a fight. The level of intensity and physicality on everything they do gives that feeling and the approach also makes it feel a bit more like a real sport than WWE main roster womens matches. Referring back to someone like Ruby Riott, her finish is literally an arm wrench into a scissor kick (she isnt going full over the top like AJ or Finn's overhead kicks) so she's meant to be something of a striker. I don't think her scissor kick looks like it'll hurt very much. What else does she have to offer?

2) Exciting fast, technical exchanges during pace changes in the match. Does someone like Ruby Riott have the technical grappling skill to do that in the ring?

I've actually seen her matches since she was in the very first incarnation of Oedo Tai in Stardom, when she was known as Heidi Lovelace. So shes been to Japan and wrestled Japanese women and the answer is no, she didnt have better technique back then and isnt up to that kind of grappling.

3) A story was told inside the ring. You can see that the wrestlers are putting a lot on the line and are very passionate giving pretty much everything they have. I'd actually say 2018s match gave me more of this feeling than this one. Compared to a WWE womens match featuring someone like Ruby Riott? Its night and day in my opinion.

The match isn’t perfect, I see at least 1 part that looks like it might have been unintended however it didn’t take away from the match. You can suspend your disbelief very easily to make sense of what happened. Some people might not even notice it.

And after the match is done your two main eventers look like tough psychos and athletes that could hang with anyone else in the world. I feel like some of this stuff is missing from the vast majority of the western womens wrestling matches. Like the things that are expected in mens matches arent expected in womens matches.

This is a match that is recommended as perhaps the best match in Japan’s 4th “best” Joshi company after Stardom, Sendai Girls, Ice Ribbon and maybe then comes Seaddlingg or Marvelous. So not the best womens wrestling promotion in Japan.

And this is one of the things I disagree with Dave Melzter on. He used to be a fan of Joshi wrestling back in the 80s and 90s, he would travel to Japan to watch the likes of Manami Toyota and rate those matches (5 stars several times)

Now he barely looks at a joshi match and he suggests the likes of Charlotte Flair and Tessa Blanchard are 2 of the best womens wrestlers in the world. I think hes extremely wrong. I dont think they'd be in the top 10 in the world.

He just no longer pays attention to the place thats always been doing it the best. They arent as good as Manami Toyota was but they're still better than the rest working today. And the only ones who challenge that are the women who came through Joshi wrestling and are now in western wrestling, Io Shirai, Asuka and Kairi Sane.

Out of the WWE main roster women I'd say Sasha Banks is the best btw. She normally executes what shes trying to do well and shes a good bumper making it look like she really got hurt. Charlotte looks quite awkward moving in the ring, half the times she goes for a big boot her opponent falls over and she kicks the air. Shes obviously very impressive flying off the top rope but other than that I don't think shes that good.

I hope thats a decent enough explanation of why I think Joshi match standards are usually much better than WWE main roster women and why I dont think many of them meet the standard of being a good wrestler.

NXT does a better job than the main roster for sure, but I still feel like it misses some of the things I mentioned above even though they've been heavy on the gimmicks like ladders and tables in recent months. I dont think they come away from their matches looking as gritty and tough as Arisa and Nanae here for example, other than maybe Mia Yim who seemed to want to injure herself with the bumps she was taking.

And AEW has some of those things but pretty much only when a joshi wrestler is in the ring, certainly not when its Britt Baker and Allie or something like that. Those matches are tough. Shida and Riho can do it, Emi Sakura can do it in a serious match like in the title match against Riho... But other than that is not there either.
 

CassiusClaymore

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Watching Dynamite now

Very good opening match between Cody and Darby Allin. Good storyline, psychology and in-ring execution. Taz has also added something on commentary

Good 4 way match for the womens title. Baker is much more palatable when shes in there with Riho and Hikaru Shida, two good workers

Moxley Vs. Trent was pretty good, did the job for what Mox is about.

Sammy Vs. Dustin told another good story and a decent match

MJF being an asshole as always

Main event was set up with the cold open to the show, and was a great all action match. As good a 6 man tag as you'll see in 2020 I'm sure.

Good show
Yeah agree with all of that. Best show from them in a while as I thought they were definitely running out of steam at the end of last year with a couple of the previous shows outright stinking.

Hopefully there's been a rocket up their asses and they kill it in 2020.

Anyone watching Wrestle Kingdom 14 this weekend? Kinda tempted to sign up to NJPW World for a month at least just to see what that's like...
 

Mystry

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Anyone watching Wrestle Kingdom 14 this weekend? Kinda tempted to sign up to NJPW World for a month at least just to see what that's like...
Along with Takeovers by far the best wrestling show of the year, or shows this time.

Hyped to see Hiromu vs Ospreay and Okada vs Ibushi. Think we'll get Naito vs Okada on night two. Only disapointment is no proper Ishii, Shingo or Suzuki match.
 

Ekeke

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Yeah agree with all of that. Best show from them in a while as I thought they were definitely running out of steam at the end of last year with a couple of the previous shows outright stinking.

Hopefully there's been a rocket up their asses and they kill it in 2020.

Anyone watching Wrestle Kingdom 14 this weekend? Kinda tempted to sign up to NJPW World for a month at least just to see what that's like...
I'll make sure to watch it. I havent been up to date with the recent angles, but I cant miss the big matches of the year
 

CassiusClaymore

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Along with Takeovers by far the best wrestling show of the year, or shows this time.

Hyped to see Hiromu vs Ospreay and Okada vs Ibushi. Think we'll get Naito vs Okada on night two. Only disapointment is no proper Ishii, Shingo or Suzuki match.
I'll make sure to watch it. I havent been up to date with the recent angles, but I cant miss the big matches of the year
Right, I'll get involved then.

Forgot to say, I thought the production values were improved on this weeks Dynamite too, specifically the sound. I reckon they mic'ed the ring up much better as everything sounded more impactful.
 

Shane88

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The Shaman of Sexy returned on Smackdown. Very low-key way to bring him back, I thought.

I don't agree that Charlotte is good in the air @Ekeke She probably has one of the worst moonsaults I've seen. 80% of the time she lands on her feet/knees while doing it. It's probably done that way to protect her balloon tits since she popped an implant last year.

But as much I like Becky, she might be the worst in the air in women's wrestling. She looks like gravity effects her twice as much as anyone else.
 

Ekeke

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The Shaman of Sexy returned on Smackdown. Very low-key way to bring him back, I thought.

I don't agree that Charlotte is good in the air @Ekeke She probably has one of the worst moonsaults I've seen. 80% of the time she lands on her feet/knees while doing it. It's probably done that way to protect her balloon tits since she popped an implant last year.

But as much I like Becky, she might be the worst in the air in women's wrestling. She looks like gravity effects her twice as much as anyone else.
Well, she can do more in the air than most women. But yeah she doesnt have the most grace even when she does something impressive.

Becky doesnt jump off the top rope, she falls :lol:

Back to Wrestle Kingdom... This Ospreay Vs. Hiroumu match :annoyed::annoyed::annoyed::confused::confused::confused::houllier::houllier::houllier::devil:
 

Andersons Dietician

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I don't agree that Charlotte is good in the air @Ekeke She probably has one of the worst moonsaults I've seen. 80% of the time she lands on her feet/knees while doing it
Pretty sure she is trying to land on her feet which is fecking impressive in itself since the majority of her moonsaults or corkscrews are to the outside. Meaning she is effectively sticking a back flip or corkscrew flip from 10-12ft and landing it.

Watched Smackdown on the BT app and it was pretty good. All the matches are listed at the botttom so you can just jump to what you want to see. However who thinks we are heading for Roman vs Brey at WM with the big dog slaying the monster. Personally think it should be Braun that defeats him but hey big dog gotta bark and all.
 

Sylar

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Friend should be Slayed by somebody like aleister black

Is there anybody as consistently awesome as will ospreay?
 

paulscholes18

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Friend should be Slayed by somebody like aleister black

Is there anybody as consistently awesome as will ospreay?
Ah Friend, don’t forget the thumbs up

Yes Black is who I had beating the Fiend when I done my booking of him, but unfortunately he will probably be fed to Reigns at WM.

Also Will Ospreay is amazing, is it too soon to say the best English Wrestler of all time?
 

Mystry

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Ah Friend, don’t forget the thumbs up

Yes Black is who I had beating the Fiend when I done my booking of him, but unfortunately he will probably be fed to Reigns at WM.

Also Will Ospreay is amazing, is it too soon to say the best English Wrestler of all time?
When you have Dynamite Kid and Regal, yes it's still too early.

Finally a happy ending for Naito, and I absolutely love dickhead Kenta. Kinda want this to be the end of Jericho in NJPW though. He's gone through all the big guys now and it's gotten less and less interesting as it's gone on.
 

CassiusClaymore

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Day 1 of WK > Day 2.

Of what I saw my favourite mathes were Ospreay v Takahashi, Okada v Ibushi on Day 1 and the Ibushi v White match on day 2 I enjoyed more than the final.

The Moxley and Jericho matches weren't without merit either. Didn't bother with much of the undercard.

Now to have a look at some of the old content on NJPW World...should keep me busy.
 

Ekeke

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Imo Jericho didnt look that good back with Owens, in terms of in the ring at least. In Japan and AEW he at least has the gimmick to not need to be that great in the ring anymore and his matches in Japan are better than any of his WWE ones for the final years.

For anyone who cares to watch womens wrestling, Stardom's new tv show with the Bushiroad acquistition

 

Sylar

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Punk telling miz to suck a blood money covered dick in Saudia Arabia is funny
 

Sylar

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Just another instance of Punk being ridiculously thin-skinned.

He can't stand the fact that Miz main evented Wrestlemania and he never did.
Yep that's why I think he deleted it as soon as he tweeted it
But the internet doesn't forget