Television The Pro Graps Thread

Ekeke

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Because he got swallowed up by the Fiend, not because he drowned. He wasn't gasping for air or anything, he popped up once and then got dragged down... I mean the water literally turned Red.
So you're saying he murdered him another way to cause bleeding, while hes drowning gasping for air underwater?
 

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So you're saying he murdered him another way to cause bleeding, while hes drowning gasping for air underwater?
It's clearly not blood... it's obviously red for the Fiend's emergence as red is his colour... I mean we had to put if with red lighting for how long?

You're really reaching if you're saying that is a drowning angle... its a Fiend angle. It was certainly no worse then the AEW stadium thing
 

SalfordRed18

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It was literally Friday 13th. They even did the whole jumping out the water bit.

Some absolute reaching if you see it as anything other than that.
 

Ekeke

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It's clearly not blood... it's obviously red for the Fiend's emergence as red is his colour... I mean we had to put if with red lighting for how long?

You're really reaching if you're saying that is a drowning angle... its a Fiend angle. It was certainly no worse then the AEW stadium thing
Its drowning, whether its red water or not

AEW was comedy and Matt Hardy was clearly alive after it. Braun isnt. They ended the show with the last thing we saw is him underwater
 

sewey89

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Its drowning, whether its red water or not

AEW was comedy and Matt Hardy was clearly alive after it. Braun isnt. They ended the show with the last thing we saw is him underwater
You take wrestling far too seriously.

When you first brought this up, it felt like you were poking fun at those who said the same about AEW's spot and as the Official RedCafe fan boy for AEW, I thought, fair play..

But it seems you're actually serious... And you're now claiming this is worse than the AEW one..

AEW had somebody purposely try and drown another wrestler two days after Shad drowned. It was shit timing and stupid to go through with it. I saw it called out all over the place.

You're literally the only person i've seen try to make a connection with last night's match and Shad's tragedy.
 

SalfordRed18

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Its drowning, whether its red water or not

AEW was comedy and Matt Hardy was clearly alive after it. Braun isnt. They ended the show with the last thing we saw is him underwater
You're definitely wumming.
 

Ekeke

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You take wrestling far too seriously.

When you first brought this up, it felt like you were poking fun at those who said the same about AEW's spot and as the Official RedCafe fan boy for AEW, I thought, fair play..

But it seems you're actually serious... And you're now claiming this is worse than the AEW one..

AEW had somebody purposely try and drown another wrestler two days after Shad drowned. It was shit timing and stupid to go through with it. I saw it called out all over the place.

You're literally the only person i've seen try to make a connection with last night's match and Shad's tragedy.
I'm not poking fun. I wouldn't do that when it comes to someone's death.

I am pointing out the hypocrites.

Matt Hardy was a comedy spot where you're shown he's fine, AEW had the end of a match be someone drowning. It was pointed out on WOR
 

sewey89

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I'm not poking fun. I wouldn't do that when it comes to someone's death.

I am pointing out the hypocrites.

Matt Hardy was a comedy spot where you're shown he's fine, AEW had the end of a match be someone drowning. It was pointed out on WOR
So AEW did a comedy spot about drowning a couple of days after a wrestler actually died from drowning...?
 

SalfordRed18

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I'm not poking fun. I wouldn't do that when it comes to someone's death.

I am pointing out the hypocrites.

Matt Hardy was a comedy spot where you're shown he's fine, AEW had the end of a match be someone drowning. It was pointed out on WOR
Meta :lol:
 

Ekeke

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Have AEW ever done anything wrong? @Ekeke Genuine question.
Yes obviously. Although it depends what you mean by "wrong" I suppose. Morally? Hmm... Apparently Joey Ryan had a reputation before the allegations against him came out, so having him on the original All In probably wasnt a good idea. I never liked him anyway. Other than that, no I dont think so. But the company is only a few years old so its a clean slate. WWE has been around a long time and wrestling has long been a carny business where people get away with things that they wouldnt in an industry that was bigger. That doesnt make it okay, people should still answer for what they did in the past.

In terms of doing something wrong like bad booking, or bad matches well If you actually read my posts I've said on more than one occasion I didn't think a lot of the womens matches werent very good - but not all of them, the ones with Shida and Riho featured tended to be good matches instead. Brodie Lee I didnt really like his promo delivery when he first came and wasnt that impressed with him. Had a fairly good match with Moxley so I'm okay with him atm, but thats just match/work wise. Still not sure where they're going with the dark order gimmick. Statlander was used in the title picture when she isnt ready and her alien gimmick is stupid as f. The Nightmare Collective was ass, and they had too many groups that wore black. Bucher and the Blade now wear white, they're probably the ones that should be wearing black still because they had the most unique and cool look.

Chuck Taylor being in a main event, even with Trent who is actually a very good wrestler doesnt work for me. I guess it was so Orange Cassidy could be seen in the main event, which makes sense but it doesnt change that Chuck Taylor is in a tag main event. I dont particularly like joey janella but I dont mind if hes there to be thrown about and take a big bump to make someone else look good.

Sammy G obviously shouldnt have said what he said, although he wasnt with AEW at the time. They did the right thing taking him off tv

Those are my thoughts.
 

Ekeke

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So AEW did a comedy spot about drowning a couple of days after a wrestler actually died from drowning...?
No. Because he didnt drown. He was held underwater and every few seconds came up as a different persona from all the gimmick's Matt Hardy has had throghout his career. There was no drowning, its also part of his gimmick that he regenerates in "the lake of reincarnation" - so if anything its about giving life, not taking it away.

Last night we're supposed to think Braun was beaten underwater and never returned to show he was okay. Tune into the show to find out what really happened

A bit like a month or two ago when Rey Mysterio was thrown off the roof of the WWE headquarters and we were supposed to think he fell. But then you tune in to find out he was thrown from one roof to a lower roof and isnt selling it.



What I will say though is Excalibur is an idiot for talking about drowning. Its clearly a comedy thing and not someone actually drowning, but when he actually says the words it does make it come across worse
 

sewey89

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No. Because he didnt drown. He was held underwater and every few seconds came up as a different persona from all the gimmick's Matt Hardy has had throghout his career. There was no drowning, its also part of his gimmick that he regenerates in "the lake of reincarnation" - so if anything its about giving life, not taking it away.

Last night we're supposed to think Braun was beaten underwater and never returned to show he was okay. Tune into the show to find out what really happened

A bit like a month or two ago when Rey Mysterio was thrown off the roof of the WWE headquarters and we were supposed to think he fell. But then you tune in to find out he was thrown from one roof to a lower roof and isnt selling it.



What I will say though is Excalibur is an idiot for talking about drowning. Its clearly a comedy thing and not someone actually drowning, but when he actually says the words it does make it come across worse
fecking hell mate. Give it a rest.

Why are Hardy’s opponents holding him under the water if not to drown him?! :lol:

I don’t need the angle explaining to me, I get it.. but there was ways to have him re-emerge without holding him under water...

Anyway, I don’t even think it was THAT bad. Bad timing with shad and they should’ve pulled it, but I don’t think it was horrific.

However, you Bringing up Shad’s death after last night and trying to make out that was somehow worse is quite frankly ridiculous
 

Ekeke

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fecking hell mate. Give it a rest.

Why are Hardy’s opponents holding him under the water if not to drown him?! :lol:

I don’t need the angle explaining to me, I get it.. but there was ways to have him re-emerge without holding him under water...

Anyway, I don’t even think it was THAT bad. Bad timing with shad and they should’ve pulled it, but I don’t think it was horrific.

However, you Bringing up Shad’s death after last night and trying to make out that was somehow worse is quite frankly ridiculous
It is obviously worse, only people who have gone down with WWE brain would do the mental gymnastics to suggest that a comedy dunking where hes clearly fine and keeps coming up is the same as someone going off the air unseen and under the water, having lost the "match".
 

Bwuk

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It is obviously worse, only people who have gone down with WWE brain would do the mental gymnastics to suggest that a comedy dunking where hes clearly fine and keeps coming up is the same as someone going off the air unseen and under the water, having lost the "match".
So obvious that everyone disagrees with you on here?

Its disgusting dragging Shad into this.
 

Ekeke

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So obvious that everyone disagrees with you on here?

Its disgusting dragging Shad into this.
Yes you just proved my point. This isnt an unbiased forum, I post here because I've posted here since 2006, not because there are lots of knowlegable wrestling fans who watch more than just WWE. There are just a couple.
 

sewey89

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Yes you just proved my point. This isnt an unbiased forum, I post here because I've posted here since 2006, not because there are lots of knowlegable wrestling fans who watch more than just WWE. There are just a couple.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Second time in a couple of months that you’ve insinuated that everyone on here except yourself and ‘a couple others’ are clueless.

You do play the heel role really well
 

Ekeke

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:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Second time in a couple of months that you’ve insinuated that everyone on here except yourself and ‘a couple others’ are clueless.

You do play the heel role really well
Its not an insult, if you dont know something you dont know something. Theres nothing wrong with that. There is something wrong with pretending you know something you dont however and thats what we have here.

There are a couple of jokers in this thread, I thought this episode was pretty funny so maybe you guys could learn something

 

sewey89

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Its not an insult, if you dont know something you dont know something. Theres nothing wrong with that. There is something wrong with pretending you know something you dont however and thats what we have here.

There are a couple of jokers in this thread, I thought this episode was pretty funny so maybe you guys could learn something

I genuinely think most people in here are just fans though and call things how they see them. Why do you have to be a wrestling expert or have an in depth knowledge of the business side of it to have an opinion or a view on what’s happening?

The answer is that you don’t.
 

Ekeke

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I genuinely think most people in here are just fans though and call things how they see them. Why do you have to be a wrestling expert or have an in depth knowledge of the business side of it to have an opinion or a view on what’s happening?

The answer is that you don’t.
They are fans of WWE. To them WWE is wrestling and wrestling is WWE because thats all they've ever known.They refuse to watch anything else, so whatever the quality is in WWE that becomes their normal - when its bad like now, its normal to them because they dont know different.

When they assume that WWE must have all the best wrestlers, best matches, etc like WWE tells them it does and that nothing else matters, the fact that WWE is the biggest company in the world reinforces the idea that anyone who is good is there. But it simply doesnt work like that. They are living off the fumes of The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin when it actually used to be good and slowly the ratings and interest in WWE has declined ever since then. So yes its still the biggest company but it has nothing to do with whats going on now. Its reaping the rewards of 20 years ago and thats why when the ratings are down they keep going back to the past, for The Big Show, Edge and Christian, Flair etc for a few weeks of slightly better ratings but they cant build anybody new and it never lasts.

The problem is there is no incentive in their minds to actually try different companies and see what else is going on outside the WWE bubble. That takes time, they are lazy and its best for them that they just keep believing everything WWE does is the best because then they can continue being lazy and feeling like they know all about "wrestling" when really they just know a small part of it and have missed a lot of great stuff over the years in other promotions. Obviously time is finite and nobody can watch every wrestling show all the time. Even Meltzer doesn't and its his job to report and talk about it. But I'm sure people can watch more than their favourite WWE show and try something else as well during a week. Very few even try, so they dont even know how much they dont know.

You can have an opinion, but when someone has a different opinion and tells you it, you only make yourself look stupid for laughing at their perspective when they are aware of what you are aware of but far more on top and thats why they have a different opinion. Why would I care what someone like that thinks? I can find WWE brains anywhere, the people that tune into WWE for a few hours a week and then think they know everything about wrestling. But according to posters here, I'm supposed to be upset and change my opinion because the majority of posters think differently?

Good one. This is redcafe, I've been here since 2006 and the majority of posters get it wrong on who we should and shouldnt sign, let alone something that has nothing to do with this forum like wrestling. :smirk:

Discussion is good, thats why I will sometimes respond and will usually provide a lot of information to show why I think a certain way. Stupid comments arent discussion, they are a form of self sabotage. The poster is dismissing the idea instead of learning about it and then disagreeing with it. Why would you do that? Its either laziness or fear that the other person is right.
 

Ekeke

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I hope your life is fine Ekeke. Sounds like you are Jim Cornette in disguise. Stay safe mate
I actually really appreciate this comment.

So I get both, called Cornette for talking about wrestling history and people suggesting I cant possibly disagree with something AEW have done despite constantly doing it in my posts.

So I'm both Cornette, and AEW the "new" wrestling. Sounds like I'm doing it right when my perspective can come across as both history and the current.
 

SalfordRed18

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They are fans of WWE. To them WWE is wrestling and wrestling is WWE because thats all they've ever known.They refuse to watch anything else, [/B]so whatever the quality is in WWE that becomes their normal - when its bad like now, its normal to them because they dont know different.

When they assume that WWE must have all the best wrestlers, best matches, etc like WWE tells them it does and that nothing else matters, the fact that WWE is the biggest company in the world reinforces the idea that anyone who is good is there. But it simply doesnt work like that. They are living off the fumes of The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin when it actually used to be good and slowly the ratings and interest in WWE has declined ever since then. So yes its still the biggest company but it has nothing to do with whats going on now. Its reaping the rewards of 20 years ago and thats why when the ratings are down they keep going back to the past, for The Big Show, Edge and Christian, Flair etc for a few weeks of slightly better ratings but they cant build anybody new and it never lasts.

The problem is there is no incentive in their minds to actually try different companies and see what else is going on outside the WWE bubble. That takes time, they are lazy and its best for them that they just keep believing everything WWE does is the best because then they can continue being lazy and feeling like they know all about "wrestling" when really they just know a small part of it and have missed a lot of great stuff over the years in other promotions. Obviously time is finite and nobody can watch every wrestling show all the time. Even Meltzer doesn't and its his job to report and talk about it. But I'm sure people can watch more than their favourite WWE show and try something else as well during a week. Very few even try, so they dont even know how much they dont know.

You can have an opinion, but when someone has a different opinion and tells you it, you only make yourself look stupid for laughing at their perspective when they are aware of what you are aware of but far more on top and thats why they have a different opinion. Why would I care what someone like that thinks? I can find WWE brains anywhere, the people that tune into WWE for a few hours a week and then think they know everything about wrestling. But according to posters here, I'm supposed to be upset and change my opinion because the majority of posters think differently?

Good one. This is redcafe, I've been here since 2006 and the majority of posters get it wrong on who we should and shouldnt sign, let alone something that has nothing to do with this forum like wrestling. :smirk:

Discussion is good, thats why I will sometimes respond and will usually provide a lot of information to show why I think a certain way. Stupid comments arent discussion, they are a form of self sabotage. The poster is dismissing the idea instead of learning about it and then disagreeing with it. Why would you do that? Its either laziness or fear that the other person is right.
How do you know this? This is something you assume all the time, but how do you know this?
 

Ekeke

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How do you know this? This is something you assume all the time, but how do you know this?
When people say things that cant possibly have that perspective if they know about either history, or whats going on in other promotions.

For example when posters have said "I'm an old wrestling fan and I cant stand AEW taking cheap shots at WWE", when the entire ratings war between WWF and WCW was them taking the mick out of each other and trying to make the other company look bad or take their talent. Clearly at that point you aren't a fan of the wrestling of old, or you didnt know what was going on back then either.

When people would say AJ is the best wrestler in the world when Okada and Omega were putting on all time classics, and other NJPW talents were having matches just as good as AJ and so on. People who dont watch other stuff thought AJ was the best, but thats the best from what they've seen... in WWE... Not best in the world. But WWE fans have this notion that WWE = the world

Or when people act like another company do something morally questionable, when WWE is rife with controversy over the years. Somehow it only applies to other companies
 

SalfordRed18

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When people say things that cant possibly have that perspective if they know about either history, or whats going on in other promotions.

For example when posters have said "I'm an old wrestling fan and I cant stand AEW taking cheap shots at WWE", when the entire ratings war between WWF and WCW was them taking the mick out of each other and trying to make the other company look bad or take their talent. Clearly at that point you aren't a fan of the wrestling of old, or you didnt know what was going on back then either.

When people would say AJ is the best wrestler in the world when Okada and Omega were putting on all time classics, and other NJPW talents were having matches just as good as AJ and so on. People who dont watch other stuff thought AJ was the best, but thats the best from what they've seen... in WWE... Not best in the world. But WWE fans have this notion that WWE = the world

Or when people act like another company do something morally questionable, when WWE is rife with controversy over the years. Somehow it only applies to other companies
AJ styles has won 3 of the last 4 pwi wrestlers of the year. Do they not watch all wrestling? Of course they do, 2017 had AJ 1st, Okada 2nd, Omega 3rd and Cody 4th. He was widely considered the best in the world at that point from more than just WWE fans.

Now there's an argument that okada/omega were better, but that's just an opinion, as is AJ being better.

Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, some people, who know their wrestling history and follow other promotions, might just have a different opinion to yourself? Has that crossed your mind?
 

Ekeke

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AJ styles has won 3 of the last 4 pwi wrestlers of the year. Do they not watch all wrestling? Of course they do, 2017 had AJ 1st, Okada 2nd, Omega 3rd and Cody 4th. He was widely considered the best in the world at that point from more than just WWE fans.

Now there's an argument that okada/omega were better, but that's just an opinion, as is AJ being better.

Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, some people, who know their wrestling history and follow other promotions, might just have a different opinion to yourself? Has that crossed your mind?
PWI is a KAYFABE list. That means his character has been on top in WWE, the biggest company. It has nothing to do with who the best wrestler is. Its also only ever had american wrestling winners, if that didnt give you a clue before.

They also completely missed Kairi Sane off their last list for women
 

SalfordRed18

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PWI is a KAYFABE list. That means his character has been on top in WWE, the biggest company. It has nothing to do with who the best wrestler is. Its also only ever had american wrestling winners, if that didnt give you a clue before.

They also completely missed Kairi Sane off their last list for women
Regardless, have you considered other, informed, well versed fans, have different opinions?
 

Ekeke

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SalfordRed18

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When they bring interesting points of view to the discussion yes. Thats the only reason to post here, thinking that occasionally someone like that will post

Try this list for "best in the world" not "best in america"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_..._Thesz/Ric_Flair_Award_(Wrestler_of_the_Year)
The way you come across simply don't like that though. Things like today with the swamp match, you have to admit is an absolute reach to try link that to shad. But then to defend AEW who days after he died did a drowning skit, leaves a bad taste.

And going off your list, when was John Cena outside of kayfabe the best wrestler in the world?
 

Ekeke

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The way you come across simply don't like that though. Things like today with the swamp match, you have to admit is an absolute reach to try link that to shad. But then to defend AEW who days after he died did a drowning skit, leaves a bad taste.

And going off your list, when was John Cena outside of kayfabe the best wrestler in the world?
No, its something WOR brought up and I agree with it. A comedy match where Matt Hardy is fine is not okay, but actually drowning someone is okay. Sure

You're looking at Wrestler of the year, which is who was the most important wrestler in the industry that year. For simply the best match worker look at most outstanding wrestler, or for technical wrestling look at the bryan danielson award

So.. let me get this straight your complaint was that a WWE wrestler got one they shouldnt have? Fair enough. Usually people with your perspective say the opposite.
 

Ekeke

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Seems like some toxic WWE fans have been abusing Kayla online because she tested positive for Covid.

Also, in case anyone suggests that the walls of jericho isnt a good submission move

 

Leroy The Red

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Just popped in here to discuss and laugh at Rey Mysterios eye ball popping out angle. Peak WWE. But I see that’s not even been brought up because Ekeke is being a bell end again.
Ah, nothing to see here ....
 

sewey89

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Just popped in here to discuss and laugh at Rey Mysterios eye ball popping out angle. Peak WWE. But I see that’s not even been brought up because Ekeke is being a bell end again.
Ah, nothing to see here ....
The entire eye angle has been horrendous.. topped off by the ending of that match yesterday.. :lol:

“Rey, we’ve painted a bit of red onto a ping pong ball, just hold it on your eye please”
 

Ekeke

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So Flair's wife has Covid. Most likely he has it too, although Moxley never tested positive when Renee had it so perhaps theres some hope. Someone his age with all the health issues hes been through in the past few years having covid sounds really bad. I hope he's okay...
 

Sylar

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This is why nobody takes you seriously on here.
I mean youre not self aware which is quite hilarious.
When I said the above, I meant it. Its either one big troll, which is quite funny.
But if its not, its kinda sad, (but funny too in a 'aww I feel sorry' kinda way)

Anyway, Horror show was aptly named. Its a shame cos the tag titles match was good fun. The Drew/Ziggler match was intriguing. I really think WWE has done a good job with Drew. But a crap job with every other face.
Rey/Seth was just terrible. The use of Seth since he won the title from Brock at mania last year? has been terrible. His online comments havent helped. but hes gone from fresh to boring (and him doing the same thing every week for what seems like years now). I actually thought they would have dominic cost Rey the match :lol:
Asuka/Sasha was great until the ending.

Also caught up on AEW and NXT. Both have overall been great.

Havent watched TNA/Impact for ages. Gave Slammiversary a chance. The wrestling overall is good. But that womens gauntlet match. Wow. What the hell was that?