Television The Pro Graps Thread

SalfordRed18

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Think this is one of problems with modern WWE, and it's to do with the writing. If you're not seen with the top title or in the top title picture, looks/feels as if you've dropped off, which isnt necessarily the case at all.

Need better story telling really. You look at NXT and for example, Keith Lee/ Dom diajkovic best of 7 series was had people glued to seats without the title being involved, or gGargano and Ciampab etc.
 

SalfordRed18

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Priest will be a world champion by the end of the year.
I can't see that happening. Midcard champion at best.

I like priest, and he certainly has the look that Vince likes which is in his favour, but better than him have come up and done diddly squat.

Samoa fecking Joe only has a united states title to his name I think? And he's stuck on commentary right now, for instance.
 

Welsh Wonder

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Isn't it obvious at this point that Vince doesn't want a genuine megastar with crossover appeal that could feck off from WWE whenever they wanted
 

Andersons Dietician

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I love the fiend.



He doesn't need to be in the rumble. He's a character that doesn't need the title, putting him in the rumble would ruin him or the rumble if not both. Needles.

And his days certainly aren't over, despite what some on the IWC say. Love it or hate it, people talk about it, and he's a shoe in for mania with Randy it seems.

I've quite enjoyed the story line thus far. When he comes back I expect him to absolutely destroy Randy Orton in the lead up to mania.
I was fully expecting him to return mid Rumble. Not as an entrant but something similar to what happened on Raw. Lights go out, Play Bliss on the Apron, lights go out Fiend then standing behind Orton, Bliss vanished, Fiend launches Orton over the top or something like that. Only so long they can keep this Bliss Orton thing going before he returns.

I’m guessing at somepoint this whole thing is going to loop back around to Braun vs Bray.
 

Sylar

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We all know that's not a real world title.
Sure but priest winning the world title would be a genuine shock to me

I mean he should but then there's quite a few people they've sabotaged and killed their momentum
 

Sylar

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Isn't it obvious at this point that Vince doesn't want a genuine megastar with crossover appeal that could feck off from WWE whenever they wanted
Yep. It's funny cos they don't even need to be mega stars. I mean riddle left MMA to be a wrestler, this guy was good with ratings on nxt
Now he's a total dork
 

Dirty Schwein

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Yep. It's funny cos they don't even need to be mega stars. I mean riddle left MMA to be a wrestler, this guy was good with ratings on nxt
Now he's a total dork
I remember seeing a video on YouTube of Riddle and AJ Styles in a storyline. It might have been his big debut. Has he fallen since then?
 

Shane88

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Sure but priest winning the world title would be a genuine shock to me

I mean he should but then there's quite a few people they've sabotaged and killed their momentum
Dunno, they gave him the Taker/Cena treatment with Edge and pairing him with a megastar in Bad Bunny (or so I'm told. I'm 32, I have zero idea who he is).

I think they're putting a rocket on him.
 

Sylar

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Dunno, they gave him the Taker/Cena treatment with Edge and pairing him with a megastar in Bad Bunny (or so I'm told. I'm 32, I have zero idea who he is).

I think they're putting a rocket on him.
Keith Lee was put over on smack down then survivors series (by reigns no less)
Then had a rumble moment with Brock and Braun
Guy looked destined to be big especially with his size and promo ability. But for some reason after his double title win and then coming on raw, he just has done nothing

They will now push him and he will have no momentum and be seen as anything but a star

I remember seeing a video on YouTube of Riddle and AJ Styles in a storyline. It might have been his big debut. Has he fallen since then?
Lost to AJ in a rematch, then lost s feud to Corbin and now is getting battered by Hurt Business and is a dope basically
 

ReallyUSA

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Billie Kay was the funniest part of the Rumble. She is just a genius at the shit. Body language and all.
 

SalfordRed18

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I remember seeing a video on YouTube of Riddle and AJ Styles in a storyline. It might have been his big debut. Has he fallen since then?
Define fallen?

Guys been in a program with the hurt business (one of the highlights of 2020), and just this week was in the United States championship match. Dork.


To me "fallen" would be someone like Chad Gable.
 

Dirty Schwein

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Define fallen?

Guys been in a program with the hurt business (one of the highlights of 2020), and just this week was in the United States championship match. Dork.


To me "fallen" would be someone like Chad Gable.
I mean in the sense that the one time I saw him, he was in the heavyweight title picture. I know people rotate in and out of that, AJ being a prime example, but is Riddle likely to be back fighting for the top prizes?
 

Ekeke

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Isn't it obvious at this point that Vince doesn't want a genuine megastar with crossover appeal that could feck off from WWE whenever they wanted
No. Else why would he want Ronda, Tyson Fury etc? And Roman could do it anyway, he looks like an action star and im sure he get an offer.

When he actually gets behind someone he wants to push to the moon like a megastar he does it. For example Becky. What more could he have done for her to become a big star? Obviously the fans chose her first and Vince followed on after the fans rejected Charlotte as the face, but once he was on board he pushed her as much as possible and the only difference between now and the likes of The Rock is that WWE is far less popular now. So doing the same thing with a lot less people watching is going to be less effective. She had 2 belts, she had the main at wrestlemania and beat a household name in the sports world. She had a movie albeit it was a WWE movie.
 

Ekeke

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Define fallen?

Guys been in a program with the hurt business (one of the highlights of 2020), and just this week was in the United States championship match. Dork.


To me "fallen" would be someone like Chad Gable.
He's clearly just a guy in the Apollo Crews spot like a bunch of other people before him who feud with The Hurt Business in the midcard. Not that I feel sorry for him but people genuinely thought he was going to be a big star. He's a midcarder like almost everyone else that moves from NXT.
 

Ekeke

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I mean in the sense that the one time I saw him, he was in the heavyweight title picture. I know people rotate in and out of that, AJ being a prime example, but is Riddle likely to be back fighting for the top prizes?
He got his 2 or 3 weeks before Vince was over him like everyone gets at some point. Then he decides they're a midcarder for one reason or another or forgets about them and you no longer see them
 

Dirty Schwein

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He got his 2 or 3 weeks before Vince was over him like everyone gets at some point. Then he decides they're a midcarder for one reason or another or forgets about them and you no longer see them
I hope the same fate doesn't apply to my boys AJ Styles and Samoa Joe!
 

SalfordRed18

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Riddle from what I remember only had NXT championship match and I don't think it was a takeover either (could be wrong). He was solid upper midcard that was over with the fans, that tag teamed a little too.

He got called up and had a program with intercontinental champion AJ styles, was in a triple threat for no1 contender (which Keith Lee won!), tag teamed with hardy and is now in a program with United States champion Bobby lashley and the hurt business.

He's still upper midcarder over with the fans.

Where's the fall?
 

Sylar

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I hope the same fate doesn't apply to my boys AJ Styles and Samoa Joe!
AJ is kinda untouchable which I never expected. Hes a short guy who sounds very country with long soccer mom hair. He's somebody I never expected Vince to like yet Vince seems to see him as a star which is great

Vince must love Joe on commentary as he's doing a good job there.
 

Sylar

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Riddle from what I remember only had NXT championship match and I don't think it was a takeover either (could be wrong). He was solid upper midcard that was over with the fans, that tag teamed a little too.

He got called up and had a program with intercontinental champion AJ styles, was in a triple threat for no1 contender (which Keith Lee won!), tag teamed with hardy and is now in a program with United States champion Bobby lashley and the hurt business.

He's still upper midcarder over with the fans.

Where's the fall?
He's a talking version of Ricchochet. Don't forget his feud with Corbin where he basically lost for some reason and killed his momentum. He's basically in a mash of mid carders. I mean having a feud with lashley doesn't make him upper midcard, same applies to Apollo and he had the title.
 

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No. Else why would he want Ronda, Tyson Fury etc? And Roman could do it anyway, he looks like an action star and im sure he get an offer.

When he actually gets behind someone he wants to push to the moon like a megastar he does it. For example Becky. What more could he have done for her to become a big star? Obviously the fans chose her first and Vince followed on after the fans rejected Charlotte as the face, but once he was on board he pushed her as much as possible and the only difference between now and the likes of The Rock is that WWE is far less popular now. So doing the same thing with a lot less people watching is going to be less effective. She had 2 belts, she had the main at wrestlemania and beat a household name in the sports world. She had a movie albeit it was a WWE movie.
Sorry, I meant megastars created within WWE. The likes of Rousey and Fury brought in short term (Rousey had a good stretch to be fair) to bring eyes to the product and boost its appeal with the intent of retaining some of those eyes. Most wrestlers look like action stars but there's a difference between looking good and being able to act well enough for anyone outside wrestling to give a shit about you. The only three major wrestler-turned-actors I can think of are Rock, who is spectacularly charismatic and basically the whole package when it comes to entertainment. Batista, who is genuinely a very very good actor receiving acclaim for his range in a variety of roles. John Cena, still developing as an actor but is gaining roles beyond his early simplistic muscleman parts and looks to have a decent career ahead. Plenty of wrestlers both major and minor have had small roles in action movies but that's all irrelevant to the point at hand.

You've just said yourself that the fans forced Vince's hand in pushing Becky as far as he did. Even she was only promoted within the confines of standard WWE stuff - talk shows, a WWE movie, an ESPN magazine cover after the deal between the companies. This and his seeming unwillingness to capitalise on the surge of outward fame/popularity Sasha Banks gained from her Mandalorian role just further backs up the point that while he's happy enough to bring in outside stars for short term gains, he doesn't want to create a star from within that grows to exceed the WWE brand.

Question related to the bolded too - is part of the reason the WWE is far less popular now that they don't have any home grown superstars with appeal beyond wrestling?
 

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Sorry, I meant megastars created within WWE. The likes of Rousey and Fury brought in short term (Rousey had a good stretch to be fair) to bring eyes to the product and boost its appeal with the intent of retaining some of those eyes. Most wrestlers look like action stars but there's a difference between looking good and being able to act well enough for anyone outside wrestling to give a shit about you. The only three major wrestler-turned-actors I can think of are Rock, who is spectacularly charismatic and basically the whole package when it comes to entertainment. Batista, who is genuinely a very very good actor receiving acclaim for his range in a variety of roles. John Cena, still developing as an actor but is gaining roles beyond his early simplistic muscleman parts and looks to have a decent career ahead. Plenty of wrestlers both major and minor have had small roles in action movies but that's all irrelevant to the point at hand.

You've just said yourself that the fans forced Vince's hand in pushing Becky as far as he did. Even she was only promoted within the confines of standard WWE stuff - talk shows, a WWE movie, an ESPN magazine cover after the deal between the companies. This and his seeming unwillingness to capitalise on the surge of outward fame/popularity Sasha Banks gained from her Mandalorian role just further backs up the point that while he's happy enough to bring in outside stars for short term gains, he doesn't want to create a star from within that grows to exceed the WWE brand.

Question related to the bolded too - is part of the reason the WWE is far less popular now that they don't have any home grown superstars with appeal beyond wrestling?
Its a bit of A, B and C

A) Not many people get the big superstar push. Those who do were hand selected by Vince and often someone from the past such as Edge, Goldberg etc. On the rare occasion someone current does get the big superstar push. Drew would be an example of that. Its very rarely someone that the mass of fans chose. Those people sometimes get a push but very rarely the big superstar push like Drew, or Becky. So those are the few that stand out from the many that people might have accepted as huge stars but werent treated that way. Pretty much everyone gets a couple of weeks at some point where they're in a spot where they're doing okay and could take that momentum forward and do bigger things, but then after a few weeks they're just a guy again in the same spot as everyone else as Vince does something with someone else.

B) The booking. When you arent designated like Becky when Vince was on board, or Drew of last year then when the old guys return they are made a bigger deal of than you. They are the stars, you are lucky to be in an angle with them and put them over. Theres a huge holding pattern of people in this category. The guys who if they dissappeared one week and were never seen on WWE again, someone else would replace them and things would continue as normal like they were never there. These arent people teaming with a returning guy and gaining his respect and pushing on or something like that, they're just a body to beat and maybe put on a decent match so the older guy still looks like he has something.

and

C) The viewership. With twice as many people watching, someone who is really over with the live crowd and liked by the audience is going to see twice the appeal, be talked about more and have people outside of wrestling have a vague idea of who they are. The viewership would go up if there was someone with the talent and charisma of The Rock right now, but if the viewership was twice as much as now it would be easier for that same person to be seen as a big deal, so its a vicious cycle. A good example of this is AEW and the stars they've made. They do well in the ratings compared to the other parts of the show and competition and crowd interaction/feedback is very good, but its not like they're swelling the overall numbers. If Orange Cassidy and Darby Allin were seen by twice as many people it would be a lot easier for them to gain a little bit of mainstream appeal, but if they were truly special like The Rock then over time the number of people watching would go up, making it easier for them to be bigger stars.

I completely believe WWE would love to have someone like The Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin. Can you imagine the financial offers they'd get from tv networks? They're already making all their money from this, lets say they have this star when it comes time for the next round of negotiations for their tv deal. As soon as the ink is dry on another lucrative 5 year deal, it doesnt matter if that guy then goes off to Hollywood. For the next 5 years they're making lots more money. And they could always try and bring them back as a part timer, they love to do that.

So I guess the point is for WWE's money making, having a huge star for the short term at the right time is what they need. Its keeping a huge star for a long time that would make more people watch longterm and become more invested overall. The 2nd part they dont seem that bothered by because of the first part being where the money is made.
 

Andersons Dietician

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Edge vs Roman - cool
Edge vs Dew - cool
Edge vs Balor - please, please,please, please god let it be so.

For some reason it had never even occurred to me that could be a match. Was kind of thinking it will probably be Roman and Edge will get a predictable win. Wouldn’t even have minded Edge vs Drew to be honest but now I want only one thing.

Vince, make it happen.
 

Dirty Schwein

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Edge vs Roman - cool
Edge vs Dew - cool
Edge vs Balor - please, please,please, please god let it be so.

For some reason it had never even occurred to me that could be a match. Was kind of thinking it will probably be Roman and Edge will get a predictable win. Wouldn’t even have minded Edge vs Drew to be honest but now I want only one thing.

Vince, make it happen.
Where is Balor?
 

Ekeke

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The forbidden door :eek:

AEW Dynamite Main Event Spoiler


According to Meltzer "The deal is done". AEW and NJPW have resolved their issues/bad feelings. So hopefully Kenta is just the start of things and we can get some dream matches like Ibushi, Okada, Ospreay, Naito, Suzuki, Tanahashi and Ishii vs. AEW stars going forward. Obviously the quarantine measures make it less likely to see that soon, but somewhere down the line it looks on
 
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sewey89

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Is Rusev just shit or what? WWE were widely ridiculed for 'not using him properly' and now he seems to be in almost identical shit segments in AEW.

Also, I don't follow NJPW, but i'm struggling to get excited by another WWE failure showing up.
 

Shane88

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Edge vs Roman - cool
Edge vs Dew - cool
Edge vs Balor - please, please,please, please god let it be so.

For some reason it had never even occurred to me that could be a match. Was kind of thinking it will probably be Roman and Edge will get a predictable win. Wouldn’t even have minded Edge vs Drew to be honest but now I want only one thing.

Vince, make it happen.
Roman is at the peak of his career, playing his best role.

Drew is the new star they're trying to create.

Finn is the guy who failed on the main roster (partly due to injury) and wanted to go back to the C show.

You don't put Edge against the C show champion.
 

Sylar

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The forbidden door :eek:

AEW Dynamite Main Event Spoiler


According to Meltzer "The deal is done". AEW and NJPW have resolved their issues/bad feelings. So hopefully Kenta is just the start of things and we can get some dream matches like Ibushi, Okada, Ospreay, Naito, Suzuki, Tanahashi and Ishii vs. AEW stars going forward. Obviously the quarantine measures make it less likely to see that soon, but somewhere down the line it looks on
Great news if so

Edge on NXT, Kenta on AEW? Wednesday's are for wrestling :drool:
Agreed
 

Andersons Dietician

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Roman is at the peak of his career, playing his best role.

Drew is the new star they're trying to create.

Finn is the guy who failed on the main roster (partly due to injury) and wanted to go back to the C show.

You don't put Edge against the C show champion.
I don’t know, I mean they put Flair against the NXT champ last year. No offence to Drew and Roman because I know they can put on great matches but I think the better quality match will come from Balor vs Edge. whichever way it goes I’ll be cool with but I just want to see that match.

A big scalp for Balor might also elevate his status within the WWE as he was used quite poorly when they did use him. I really want to see Lashley and Drew again and I wouldn’t be surprised to see Braun vs Roman at Mania.