Television The Pro Graps Thread

Ekeke

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Its a really really weird take. The whole thing is WWE is 50+ white male fans. So if Bad Bunny doesnt appeal to them, maybe he will appeal to people who may end up watching WM and thus attracting new fans? I mean, isnt that the goal.

Isnt that why AEW used Shaq? Or why WWE used Tyson years and years ago?

They want to attract people and hope some at least stay cos they like something else whilst waiting for BB? BB will probably boo'd, thats my prediction anyway.
Yes but theres a metric to it which is the ratings hes studying. And the ratings havent been up for BB

Shaq for example had AEW's 50+ up and some of the younger audience and women down with an overall viewer boost. Then when he wasnt on it went back to normal so not many people continued watching without him. But that absolutely was the idea, just doesnt seem like people really stuck around

BB hasnt had the spike in the first place before seeing if his fans stay after hes gone. I think thats part of the reason he gets the feeling BB wont be received that great by the fans there. If he had actually got good ratings then that would suggest the people watching would be into him

I dont think he'll get booed. I'd imagine he'll do something silly or dramatic to Miz (along the lines of Shane McMahon and gunge with Braun) and get some cheers, but mostly for the fact that its someone doing something to Miz and not sure it will be a bigger reaction than if a mid card wrestler did the same thing to Miz

I'm not sure anything thats important will get boos at WM. But if I had to pick one of the important matches at WM to get booed based on the fact that I havent liked the angle and I'm not looking forward to the next chapter, its Bray / Orton / Alexa. I think theres a chance depending on how the match goes and any lame stuff and magic happening that it gets some boos. I dont think Alexa would get boos even if its something she does, but the match overall after its over? I could see that.
 

Ekeke

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What does this have to do with being an "ethnic' celebrity?

That's literally not a thing.
A celebrity to a particular large group or culture? Hows that hard to follow? In this case the latino ones. He's a celebrity to them, maybe not so much to people who dont pay attention to latin music.
 
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Sylar

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I could see BB getting boo'd on his entrance, but cheered if he pulls of something big in the match.

Yes but theres a metric to it which is the ratings hes studying. And the ratings havent been up for BB

Shaq for example had AEW's 50+ up and some of the younger audience and women down with an overall viewer boost. Then when he wasnt on it went back to normal so not many people continued watching without him. But that absolutely was the idea, just doesnt seem like people really stuck around

BB hasnt had the spike in the first place before seeing if his fans stay after hes gone. I think thats part of the reason he gets the feeling BB wont be received that great by the fans there. If he had actually got good ratings then that would suggest the people watching would be into him

I dont think he'll get booed. I'd imagine he'll do something silly or dramatic to Miz (along the lines of Shane McMahon and gunge with Braun) and get some cheers, but mostly for the fact that its someone doing something to Miz and not sure it will be a bigger reaction than if a mid card wrestler did the same thing to Miz

I'm not sure anything thats important will get boos at WM. But if I had to pick one of the important matches at WM to get booed based on the fact that I havent liked the angle and I'm not looking forward to the next chapter, its Bray / Orton / Alexa. I think theres a chance depending on how the match goes and any lame stuff and magic happening that it gets some boos. I dont think Alexa would get boos even if its something she does, but the match overall after its over? I could see that.
 

Ekeke

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Miro update - Main feature of the main event on Dynamite in a match including Orange Cassidy who previously feuded with Chris Jericho. Was a very entertaining match too.

If you still cant see them setting him up for a big singles push towards the titles I dont know what to tell you. He's looking like Lashley
 

SalfordRed18

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A celebrity to a particular large group or culture? Hows that hard to follow? In this case the latino ones. He's a celebrity to them, maybe not so much to people who dont pay attention to latin music.
Not even going to get into it with you of all people to be honest.
Miro update - Main feature of the main event on Dynamite in a match including Orange Cassidy who previously feuded with Chris Jericho. Was a very entertaining match too.

If you still cant see them setting him up for a big singles push towards the titles I dont know what to tell you. He's looking like Lashley
Looks nothing like lashley pull your finger out.
 

SalfordRed18

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Decent long term storytelling from AEW. I remember Lee Johnson's first match I think it was, he won, stood right in front of QT arms raised and proceeded to thank everyone on stage except for QT.
 

Shane88

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Miro update - Main feature of the main event on Dynamite in a match including Orange Cassidy who previously feuded with Chris Jericho. Was a very entertaining match too.

If you still cant see them setting him up for a big singles push towards the titles I dont know what to tell you. He's looking like Lashley
The main feature of the match was Statlander returning and some guy getting dropped off to work by his Mam.

Also, he lost. Miro has zero star power without Lana and/or Aiden English doing all the heavy lifting.

Was a fun match though. Statlander's return was great.
 

Ekeke

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The main feature of the match was Statlander returning and some guy getting dropped off to work by his Mam.

Also, he lost. Miro has zero star power without Lana and/or Aiden English doing all the heavy lifting.

Was a fun match though. Statlander's return was great.
Miro was taking out 2 people by himself. The faces won 3 on 2 (4 on 3 if we include penelope and statlander)

Miro had 100% win rate before tonight. Oh no he's down a bit
 

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AEW isn't perfect, but it's fantastic to have two hours of a good-to-great weekly wrestling show for the first time in a good decade.
 

SalfordRed18

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AEW can't not come up. Be very interesting interview.

Personally at one point he was one of my favourite wrestlers of all time. I can't and won't discredit his work but boy, in recent years, does he do my nut in. Same goes for the undertaker infact.
 

Sylar

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Maybe Vince doesn't take aew seriously anymore? I mean he's outright probably telling big show and Christian, go there and get the money then come back here for a legends stuff and Hall of fame stuff

Anyway hopefully this is watched a lot and brings in new eyeballs to aew
 

Bwuk

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Maybe Vince doesn't take aew seriously anymore? I mean he's outright probably telling big show and Christian, go there and get the money then come back here for a legends stuff and Hall of fame stuff

Anyway hopefully this is watched a lot and brings in new eyeballs to aew
He never did. The Wednesday night war was a thing of fiction dreamt up by fans.

Jericho will be back in the WWE one day for HoF. He’s not going to say anything stupid. Likewise Big Show and Christian. To WWE neither are probably worth the amount Khan is paying them in AEW.
 

Bwuk

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Sami zayn mentioned AEW live on RAW, why would it be surprising for Jericho to mention where he is?

That’s the difference between AEW and TNA as much as the fans will never want to admit it.

TNA never got mentioned really until it had become a joke. WWE took them seriously as competitors.
 

Sylar

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He never did. The Wednesday night war was a thing of fiction dreamt up by fans.

Jericho will be back in the WWE one day for HoF. He’s not going to say anything stupid. Likewise Big Show and Christian. To WWE neither are probably worth the amount Khan is paying them in AEW.
Well he had nxt counter aew with the purpose of taking away people from their show so I think he did take it seriously as he should have

I think now he doesn't. Aew biggest problem is they started with 1.5m viewers, and they drove about half of them away


Also the best mentions of tna were
Cena when he did that promo on Vince before his match with punk
And
Angle telling zayn and owens he heard impact were hiring :lol:
 

Ekeke

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That’s the difference between AEW and TNA as much as the fans will never want to admit it.

TNA never got mentioned really until it had become a joke. WWE took them seriously as competitors.
AEW mentions WWE and people cry about it. WWE mentions AEW and they dont take them seriously, okay then :lol:

WWF were constantly having digs and mentioning WCW and vice versa
 

Sylar

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Yeah and that's when WCW was on top and WWE came off as second rate for doing so. Mentioning competition has hardly ever lead to an increase in ratings or more money

WWE or Vince clearly don't take aew seriously anymore, even if they did in the beginning.

Aew need to continue to focus on their own talent and by talent I mean the younger guys (I didn't realise how old Scorpio sky and Christians brother Brian are)
Thankfully they have something WWE don't, and that's people under 30 who are used and built like jungle boy, mjf, Darby, page who can rule the company for the next ten years
 

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Speaking of Scorpio Sky, credit to AEW for really committing to the brass ring gimmick by having him do feck all after he grabbed it.
 

Ekeke

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Yeah and that's when WCW was on top and WWE came off as second rate for doing so. Mentioning competition has hardly ever lead to an increase in ratings or more money

WWE or Vince clearly don't take aew seriously anymore, even if they did in the beginning.

Aew need to continue to focus on their own talent and by talent I mean the younger guys (I didn't realise how old Scorpio sky and Christians brother Brian are)
Thankfully they have something WWE don't, and that's people under 30 who are used and built like jungle boy, mjf, Darby, page who can rule the company for the next ten years
They both did it. Top dog and second fiddle and they both had a turn at each.

Yes its a bit petty, but I don't think we should pretend that wrestling fans dont ever like childish stuff. A lot of the most over guys did/do some childish stuff. DX did the most childish stuff. Should just take it as what it is most of the time, a tongue in cheek joke for the fan that knows a little bit more than the casual. An inside joke.

I agree about building the young stars. People like Scorpio are fine to have built up for 3-5 years as they can be rivals for the younger stars who are eventually going over. But at the same time, without a 2nd big time show per week there arent many spots in the upper mid and top card. They've needed that show for like 5 months now... Dark and Dark Elevation are mainly for people to get momentum and experience to take into Dynamite. There needs to be the 2nd big show for established people to do major storyline things
 

Sylar

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Oh of course, I can understand the pettiness and I can understand some of the inside jokes. Its just when its done so much. Like the Cody thing where he destroyed the throne with a hammer. Ok cool, but then focus on your own now.

I know people have mentioned Miro in this thread. But I hope hes only built up to be fed to somebody like Adam Page rather than winning the top title.
Christian should be built up to be fed to MJF.
Sammy is another one who should be the face of AEW (along with other four i mentioned). Starks could be a great heel as hes a good talker, decent in the ring and has lots of charisma. I see thats why they have him mostly talk aside from Taz.
Lucha Bros are great esp Fenix, think both of them could have been used better.

Didnt realise Luchasaurus is closer to 40 than 30 also.

I like AEW as a whole as theyve been less stupid stuff (though its not perfect). With the win / loss records, I wish they would do away with some of the gimmicky stuff, but im happy they have not used the crutch of DQ's to end matches.
Their use of older guys / legends has been done well.
I think the AEW world and TNT titles and the holders have been the right ones so far in their history.
I think having Shida hold the title as long as she has has been the right move as shes been far above the rest (Britt winning it off her would make sense).

With the three shows (two darks included), I hope they look to get non WWE young indy guys now (the good talker / good athlete types) going forward unless of course somebody huge becomes available like a CM punk, Brock or somebody that will get them eyeballs rather than people who were mid card during attitude era.
 

AshRK

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Just watched edge's promo from last night's SD, man the guy is a legend in cutting promos. This is how you tell a story. Brilliant job.

Honestly this to me has been the worst build to a WM but atleast I am looking for the universal championship match (the one which reigns has). Rest of the matches build up has been just meh.
Wwe could have built lashley McIntyre so well but all vince was focusing on was how to break up the hurt business.

I don't care about randy fiend. At least they could have save fiend's return till mania but no they wasted that on a garbage ppv.

Ko-zayn and Rollins- cesaro on paper looks fun but again the build is so weak. I just don't know what's Rollins character. The whole messiah character needs to go. Again don't care about either matches.

Aj is wasted on tag team and miz is wrestling some bunny. Who cares!

Overall a shocker of a booking leading to mania. Feels like some backlash show from early 2000s which by the way was also booked much better.

Anyways glad I watched that edge promo to have some excitement for that match and mania. Maybe I will catch some other segments involving thpse three.
 

Sylar

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Overall a shocker of a booking leading to mania. Feels like some backlash show from early 2000s which by the way was also booked much better.

Anyways glad I watched that edge promo to have some excitement for that match and mania. Maybe I will catch some other segments involving thpse three.
The rock / hhh stuff with Austin returning was badass.
Much much better back then
 

Ekeke

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Oh of course, I can understand the pettiness and I can understand some of the inside jokes. Its just when its done so much. Like the Cody thing where he destroyed the throne with a hammer. Ok cool, but then focus on your own now.

I know people have mentioned Miro in this thread. But I hope hes only built up to be fed to somebody like Adam Page rather than winning the top title.
Christian should be built up to be fed to MJF.
Sammy is another one who should be the face of AEW (along with other four i mentioned). Starks could be a great heel as hes a good talker, decent in the ring and has lots of charisma. I see thats why they have him mostly talk aside from Taz.
Lucha Bros are great esp Fenix, think both of them could have been used better.

Didnt realise Luchasaurus is closer to 40 than 30 also.

I like AEW as a whole as theyve been less stupid stuff (though its not perfect). With the win / loss records, I wish they would do away with some of the gimmicky stuff, but im happy they have not used the crutch of DQ's to end matches.
Their use of older guys / legends has been done well.
I think the AEW world and TNT titles and the holders have been the right ones so far in their history.
I think having Shida hold the title as long as she has has been the right move as shes been far above the rest (Britt winning it off her would make sense).

With the three shows (two darks included), I hope they look to get non WWE young indy guys now (the good talker / good athlete types) going forward unless of course somebody huge becomes available like a CM punk, Brock or somebody that will get them eyeballs rather than people who were mid card during attitude era.
I think Miro will win a title. He's not that old compared to some of the others and he looks like a champion physically. AEW are clearly getting the best of him in terms of, since he left WWE he's improved himself and his look.

I'd be happy enough with him getting the TNT title from Darby and then later going into the world title picture maybe winning that some way down the line. AEW's monster heels are all older than Miro so why not? He can fill that position and seeing him at the top of the card would be something new, a bit like it is with Pac.
 

Sylar

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Just watched edge's promo from last night's SD, man the guy is a legend in cutting promos. This is how you tell a story. Brilliant job.
Agreed, that was fantastic. His stuff throughout even on commentary was brilliant.
Bryan looked at his absolute best in the match and post-match.
And Roman is always a badass so all three look great going into the match.

Im not sure who they will have win, as its a triple threat they could easily have any of the three win.
 

AshRK

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Agreed, that was fantastic. His stuff throughout even on commentary was brilliant.
Bryan looked at his absolute best in the match and post-match.
And Roman is always a badass so all three look great going into the match.

Im not sure who they will have win, as its a triple threat they could easily have any of the three win.
Yes, probably the only match I am looking forward and will definitely watch. Wish they did a better job with lashley and drew. And funny they just had to keep it simple with that booking but they somehow screwed it by focusing on breaking up Hurt business. Unless it's all a swerve and they help Lashley retain the belt. But again they didn't need to go with this angle. Just have these two beast beat the hell out of each other and prove who is better was the way I would have gone.
 

Sylar

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Yes, probably the only match I am looking forward and will definitely watch. Wish they did a better job with lashley and drew. And funny they just had to keep it simple with that booking but they somehow screwed it by focusing on breaking up Hurt business. Unless it's all a swerve and they help Lashley retain the belt. But again they didn't need to go with this angle. Just have these two beast beat the hell out of each other and prove who is better was the way I would have gone.
I think they made a mistake by what they did with drew

Drew should never have lost to Orton and won it back a few weeks later. Was no point in it

Drew beat lashley last year. They should have had lashley beat drew for the title at rumble to make it 1-1 (or maybe a month or two before)

They already had miz lose the cash in so didn't need any of that mess
And they could have kept the hurt business banned AND not broken up and lashley v drew could have been awesome


They over complicate things for no reason

As it is now, I'd be ok with lashley retaining at mania and then drew gets his shot at summerslam (third match)
 

Ladron de redcafe

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To quote meltzer:

"The Bad Bunny reaction is going to be interesting too. He's a celebrity... He's a celebrity to an audience and a giant celebrity to that audience but most people don't know who he is or some people might have seen him on the Grammy's or whatever. It's like a different.. he's an ethnic celebrity. He's a giant ethnic celebrity but a lot of people at Wrestlemania are not of that ethnicity... It's not like a celebrity that is a big celebrity but everybody in the culture knows. It's a completely different situation."

Dunno where to begin with that.
Meltzer is a grade A moron. It's surprising to see a human being be wrong about so many things, all the time.
 

Ekeke

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Big day today in New Japan Pro Wrestling with Sakura Genesis finishing earlier today. If you havent seen the Ibushi Vs. Ospreay match for the IWGP title match then go and watch it. Very good match - no spoilers.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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For those who don't want to sit through that. Here is the uploader's top 16:

16- Lesnar Vs Angle Wrestlemania 19
15- Undertaker Vs CM Punk Wrestlemania 29
14- Reigns Vs Lesnar WrestleMania 31
13- Savage Vs Steamboat Wrestlemania 3
12- Flair Vs Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 24
11- Bret Vs Owen Wrestlemania 10
10- Undertaker Vs HHH HIAC Wrestlemania 28
9- Orton Vs Batista Vs Bryan Wrestlemania 30
8- TLC II Hardyz Vs Dudleys Vs E&C WM 17
7- Benoit Vs HBK Vs HHH Wrestlemania 20
6- Hogan Vs Rock Wrestlemania 18
5- Rock Vs Austin Wrestlemania 17
4- Angle Vs Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 21
3- Undertaker Vs HBK Wrestlemania 26
2- Bret Hart Vs Austin Wrestlemania 13
1- Undertaker Vs HBK Wrestlemania 25

The Rock Vs Austin and Steamboat Vs Savage matches are way to low, for me. Outside of the controversial finish (which I liked and the live crowd at Wrestlemania 17 seems to love as well), the Rock Vs Austin match was as good as anything I've seen in wrestling. The two most popular guys on the planet at (or close to) their peaks, in top shape, putting on a classic in front of a sizzling crowd.
 

Sylar

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I think Undertaker/HBK is rated too high. TLC2 should be higher, I dont think theres a better match in WM history than Austin/Bret (though I also put Rock/Austin WM17 on par depending on my mood).

List is good though and I think its based on preferences so it could be different order but same matches for top10 i guess.
 

paulscholes18

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A month or so before WM31 I went back at watched all the previous ones.

Thought Razor Ramon V HBK ladder match (it’s in my top 10) would have been in over Flair v HBK (think he let emotion take over match quality) and Roman V Lesnar (Rollins cash in saved that match big time).
Need to watch Hogan v Rock again as that seems very high.

Agree that Hogan and Yokozuna was last. Would have had Golddust vs Piper 2nd from bottom.
 

Sylar

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A month or so before WM31 I went back at watched all the previous ones.

Thought Razor Ramon V HBK ladder match (it’s in my top 10) would have been in over Flair v HBK (think he let emotion take over match quality) and Roman V Lesnar (Rollins cash in saved that match big time).
Need to watch Hogan v Rock again as that seems very high.

Agree that Hogan and Yokozuna was last. Would have had Golddust vs Piper 2nd from bottom.
Taker v Giant gonzales was terrible. Worse than those two matches for me.
 

Andersons Dietician

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Drew beat lashley last year.
I might be wrong but wasn’t that a DQ or something weird. Ever since that match I’ve been waiting for them to run it back as Lashley ran Drew closer than anyone else had and it was a very good match. For some reason the feud just seemed to die out after that match until now.

I do wish they’d left the Hurt buisness alone and just had these two Goliath’s go at it and beat 7 hells out of each other. I kind of want Lashley to win as it would just seem pointless to me him losing. But the machine is probably thinking Braun or Fiend next for Drew.
 

paulscholes18

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I might be wrong but wasn’t that a DQ or something weird. Ever since that match I’ve been waiting for them to run it back as Lashley ran Drew closer than anyone else had and it was a very good match. For some reason the feud just seemed to die out after that match until now.

I do wish they’d left the Hurt buisness alone and just had these two Goliath’s go at it and beat 7 hells out of each other. I kind of want Lashley to win as it would just seem pointless to me him losing. But the machine is probably thinking Braun or Fiend next for Drew.
Yes, Lana interfered causing Lashley to get distracted and costing him the match, then Lashley divorced her the next day.

Agree with what you said about The Hurt Business, to me they were the best thing about RAW.

Don’t think Strowman will get a push anytime soon is has been an awful feud with Shane so far, and as far as I can remember Drew has wronged Bray Wyatt in anyway so won’t make sense for The Fiend to go after him.

Be interesting to see who is next in line, as on the Heel side (if Drew wins) AJ styles could be a tag team champ which would rule him out, already had Drew V Sheamus & Drew V Orton. And can’t think of a Face that is getting a push to challenge Lashley if he retains