The Red Knights

Adebesi

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Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
Also, why would it follow that if you care about the business side, you don't care enough about the football? And does it only apply to those with anti Glazer sentiment? Or is it people who care about the business side, but like Glazer, too?
 

Slevs

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Actually its not particularly. I can see why it would look that way from my comment without going back through the conversation further. Cider said he thought they handled the pressure of MUST hatred really well. I was just saying they are never at OT so it can't be that big a deal for them.
Aha, apologies.

There must have received some knowledge about the Red Knights but I agree with you in the sense that they didn't have to handle the pressure mainly because the Knights had no thought out plan, thus leaving the Glazers with nothing new to deal with.


Also, why would it follow that if you care about the business side, you don't care enough about the football? And does it only apply to those with anti Glazer sentiment? Or is it people who care about the business side, but like Glazer, too?
I didn't understand...
 

Platato

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I understand the concept of value, thank you. Are you being intentionally patronizing or do you suspect I don't?
Not at all. I'm simply curious as to what you think he means by value. Do you simply overpay for a player because the money is available?
 

ralphie88

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Name some of these damages please.
Plunging the club into an unnecessary debt.
Spending £550m (at last count) of the club's own finances to pay off part of this debt.
Doubling ticket prices in 2/3 years and in doing so, wiping out the ST waiting list meaning that only half of our league games sell out.
Refusing to talk to independent fan groups such as IMUSA, even about issues where they share the same goal - e.g. away ticket allocation - to the detriment of travelling United fans.
Causing a division down the middle of United's support that has led to umpteen incidents of red-on-red violence.

This has, however, been done to death and I've no intention of wasting any more time on it on here (in fact I only came on to shift a few tickets :D). It should also be noted that this discussion was pulled out of nowhere not by people slagging the Glazers off, but by someone who's even more bitter about how things worked out.
 

misterredmist

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I still feel that "The Red Knights" were a publicity stunt, with nowhere near the resources to attempt a serious offer for United, MUST lapped them up, I think they deserved each other.

I never took them seriously anyway.....only the deepest of pockets will be able to prize ownership away from the Glazers............
 

stevoc

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And Solskjær has won it!
Oh a letter, that'll have the Glazers shitting themselves.

Weren't these guys just bluffers that didn't have anywhere close to enough money to buy United 10 years ago?
 
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Oh a letter, that'll have the Glazers shitting themselves.

Weren't these guys just bluffers that didn't have anywhere close to enough money to buy United 10 years ago?
Yeah. Managed to scrape together about £50m or something pathetic.

frankly if the don’t have the money, they are more of a nuance than a help.
 

red thru&thru

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I love how people mock others for trying but just sit on forums and moan.

Why don't others come up with solutions if they believe what others do are no good???
 

stevoc

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And Solskjær has won it!
Yeah. Managed to scrape together about £50m or something pathetic.

frankly if the don’t have the money, they are more of a nuance than a help.
At the time I remember suspecting that these guys were just hoping all the fan pressure would force the Glazers into selling the club at way below market value. Because they obviously didn't have a few billion to make a serious bid.
 

George the Cat

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They aren’t asking the Glazers to sell are they, they are asking them to reduce their shares to 49% and that all shareholders have the same voting rights?
I don’t understand why so many fans think the only answer is to be owned by a multi billionaire or an oil rich state?
 

The Irish Connection

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Great, brilliant. They should make an offer. It's pathetic the way some of the naysayers say 'oh, only the Saudis could afford it ' and then when someone else is actually possible they just change the goal posts.
No reason why a group of businessmen couldn't buy it. Or the fans if the government made changes.
 

Rood

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It's my view that in ten/fifteen/twenty years time the majority of United fans will look back to this particular time in our history and recognise the Glazers as being decent owners. I think that progress is already being made in this regard.
It is my view that in 10-20 years time the majority of United fans will look back to this particular time in our history and recognise it was a glorious chapter in terms of on-field performance, which is by far the most important thing.

I dont think the owners will take much credit for it though. But time will tell if you are right.
Well we are not far from 10 years on from when these posts were made !

Little did we know at the time that SAF was nearly at the end of his managerial career
 

Maticmaker

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Always thought the choice of wearing alternative colour's (G&G)somehow confused matters.. yes I know Newton Heath had these colour's and United had one season where green and gold quartered shirts were used as a third kit , but no one was seriously saying the club should go back to being owned by Railway Workers...or were they?

The only way to get rid of owners like the Glazers (remember they could be replaced currently by something much worse) is through legislation that makes it impossible to 'assist strip' or use football clubs as 'cash-cows' for multi billion investors. The door has been opened to put pressure on legislators by this blunder over the Super League, now is the time for responsible protest, door-stopping your MP's, Councillors, the new Mayor of Manchester (to be elected soon), advertisements in the press, persuading journalist (political as well as sports) to for once be on the right-side!

The door to positive legislative change has been opened, inadvertently by greedy people, don't let them close it again until changes are made, because make no mistake they will ...be back!

Parade around with banners if you must, but every time you call for a people protest in the street you risk only a handful turning up and when that happens as we saw at Carrington yesterday, you begin to look like 'w***kers'

Wear the red and white with pride, these are our colours and will always be so!
 

Nou_Camp99

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Nothing except boycotts will rid this cancer out of our club. Letters, songs and marches do nothing. if you still take your seat they don't give two craps.
 

stevoc

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And Solskjær has won it!
I love how people mock others for trying but just sit on forums and moan.

Why don't others come up with solutions if they believe what others do are no good???
I'm 100% behind anything that could realistically get the Glazers out but I personally thought these guys were bluffers, without the money on a PR stunt. A letter from them is meaningless to people like the Glazers. Government legislation is the only realistic way the fans ever get part ownership in the club.
 

Tom Van Persie

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Always thought the choice of wearing alternative colour's (G&G)somehow confused matters.. yes I know Newton Heath had these colour's and United had one season where green and gold quartered shirts were used as a third kit , but no one was seriously saying the club should go back to being owned by Railway Workers...or were they?

The only way to get rid of owners like the Glazers (remember they could be replaced currently by something much worse) is through legislation that makes it impossible to 'assist strip' or use football clubs as 'cash-cows' for multi billion investors. The door has been opened to put pressure on legislators by this blunder over the Super League, now is the time for responsible protest, door-stopping your MP's, Councillors, the new Mayor of Manchester (to be elected soon), advertisements in the press, persuading journalist (political as well as sports) to for once be on the right-side!

The door to positive legislative change has been opened, inadvertently by greedy people, don't let them close it again until changes are made, because make no mistake they will ...be back!

Parade around with banners if you must, but every time you call for a people protest in the street you risk only a handful turning up and when that happens as we saw at Carrington yesterday, you begin to look like 'w***kers'

Wear the red and white with pride, these are our colours and will always be so!
I've always thought this. It's not like we started wearing red after the Glazers took over.
 

Robertd0803

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I'm not an expert on these things so you guys are welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.
They basically want the Glazers to relinquish their control of the club by selling their shares for below market value?
I think so.

Because thats so totally going to work.
 

SeanyC

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If it gets the subject talked about again, I’m all for it, not sure how much it will change but if they keep the pressure on with this and more then great
 

Maticmaker

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I think so.

Because thats so totally going to work.
Of course not, it is an example of the lunacy that sometimes pervades these discussions. If the club is going to be sold by the Glazer's it will be because they want to sell and the circumstances allows them to walk away better than when they arrived. Legislation that restricts the 'robber-baron' instincts of the Glazers and John Henry at Liverpool , etc.is the only way; they have to see their dream of 'closing off', then 'creaming off the top' of PL football is not going to work now, or in the future, the game is too precious to everyone in this country, whether they watch football or not.

That ideal has to be, once and for all, established through legislation, that's where the pressure is required, its not in other outfits like the Red Knights or other such organisations trying to muscle in with ludicrous suggestions. Of course lots of fans want to see the Glazer's go off with their tail between their legs, but they have shown themselves to be far too cute for that. I am one of I suspect many, who would just like to see them gone, but with legislative protections in place to prevent other 'carpet-baggers' taking over.
 

DULLAGHAN

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I haven't really been following the government plans for the football review, but surely implementing legislation that outlaws the removal of funds or dividends from any sporting organisation will solve all of the issues.

It will effectively make owning a sporting organisation non profitable and will discourage ownership from anyone other than those who wish the best for that organisation.

Uefa and fifa have done their best over the years to stop or limit owners putting money in, surely its time to stop them taking money out too?
 
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Red_toad

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Yeah. Managed to scrape together about £50m or something pathetic.

frankly if the don’t have the money, they are more of a nuance than a help.
Least they had some funds and didn't go fully leveraged route. I doubt anyone has a spare 3 billion or so sat around in a bank account.
 

Red_toad

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I haven't really been following the government plans for the football review, but surely implementing legislation that outlaws the removal of funds or dividends from any sporting organisation will solve all of the issues.

It will effectively make owning a sporting organisation non profitable and will discourage ownership from anyone other than those who wish the best for that organisation.

Uefa and fifa have done their best over the years to stop or limit owners putting money in, surely its time to stop them taking money out too?
They can pay themselves a wage and sell their asset when it gains in value. United fans don't expect owners like City, we just want more transparency and communication. Current lot have just taken, taken and taken from the club. Club is still hundreds of millions in debt, it's over 15 years since the takeover and they've communicated with the fans a handful of time. I'm amazed it's been allowed to happen, but no idea how Government would legislate anything without being taken to court by many wealthy individuals.
 

DULLAGHAN

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They can pay themselves a wage and sell their asset when it gains in value. United fans don't expect owners like City, we just want more transparency and communication. Current lot have just taken, taken and taken from the club. Club is still hundreds of millions in debt, it's over 15 years since the takeover and they've communicated with the fans a handful of time. I'm amazed it's been allowed to happen, but no idea how Government would legislate anything without being taken to court by many wealthy individuals.
Yeah that's true, the debt is the bit that really gets to me. 15 years and it has increased, despite the club paying millions out on it every year.

I remember at the time of the takeover being amazed at how cash poor the glazers are, yet they could still leaverage hundreds of millions of dept onto the club.
 

Eriku

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I love how people mock others for trying but just sit on forums and moan.

Why don't others come up with solutions if they believe what others do are no good???
Yeah alright.

I’m gonna pen a letter offering to take the club off their hands for 50 quid.
 

JJ12

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Yeah alright.

I’m gonna pen a letter offering to take the club off their hands for 50 quid.
feck are you on about.
People like you he was referring to, in fairness.
 

stevoc

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And Solskjær has won it!
Yeah that's true, the debt is the bit that really gets to me. 15 years and it has increased, despite the club paying millions out on it every year.

I remember at the time of the takeover being amazed at how cash poor the glazers are, yet they could still leaverage hundreds of millions of dept onto the club.
They weren't they probably could have afforded to buy United out of their own pocket. But why would they spend their own money when you can use the clubs profits to buy itself.

That's how billionaires become billionaires.
 

Rado_N

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I love how people mock others for trying but just sit on forums and moan.

Why don't others come up with solutions if they believe what others do are no good???
Agreed, if you’re not a billionaire with the money for a buyout you aren’t allowed an opinion.
 

Suedesi

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The letter is addressed to Glazers, but really the aim is to influence sports reforms that are coming and much needed after the ESL fiasco. If you remember, the Gov't has the power to introduce "a legislative bomb" at any time which directly stopped the ESL in its tracks (it wasn't the Chelsea fans protesting or GNev; although they indirectly influenced the gov't hard stance).

Anyhoo, what the letter is asking for -

  • corporate governance reforms such as scrapping dual class share structure and introducing a single class of voting stock. Totally reasonable and any independent reform body should insist on that. You own 5% of the company, your vote should count for 5% of the tally. Under the current structure, Glazers own Class B which has 20-1 voting rights over Class A, so even if they reduce ownership to under 50%, they would still have over 50% of the vote.
  • commit to reducing their stake to under 50% - what's unreasonable about that? How can you be for 50+1% rule and not be for this?
  • sell at $14/share - this is unreasonable, no investor would do that. But the Gov't can say you have 2-3 years to reduce your stake which would in theory depress the share price immediately.
Anyways, the letter is a +ive step, keep the pressure going
 

stw2022

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Why would anyone think a group of disparate millionaires with different egos and agendas would make for good owners of a football club.

Despite everything I’m still not convinced the “any owner is better than the Glazers” argument will ever convince enough fans. And rightly so no matter how bad the Glazers such an argument is being downright reckless with the future of the club to sate the egos of those whose pride was hurt 15 years ago


Would being owned by asset strippers, egomaniacs or people who literally hang gay people be better than the Glazers? Sorry if I’m not a “proper fan” if I say no
 

red thru&thru

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feck are you on about.
People like you he was referring to, in fairness.
Exactly. People like this think they're clever and funny and contribute 0!

Maybe I'm a bit too passionate about my club but for me, it's more than just a football club and the feelings and attachments run deep!
 

red thru&thru

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I'm 100% behind anything that could realistically get the Glazers out but I personally thought these guys were bluffers, without the money on a PR stunt. A letter from them is meaningless to people like the Glazers. Government legislation is the only realistic way the fans ever get part ownership in the club.
Yeah, I am of the personal opinion of that either a legislation is brought in to get the 50 + 1 rule, or fans put their money where their mouth is and put the money in front of Glazers to purchase.

We all know that there is no one great solution as they all have their pros and cons. However, at least you're dismissing a certain way of people did something and giving a reasoned explanation as why and an alternative. But some people I read on here, and generally on social media, dismiss the work that others are doing in trying to get the Glazers out and then add no valid alternatives.
 

DuruttiColumn

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Just a bunch of daft blokes who gave themselves a cool name. If they had the money they could have purchased United a decade ago. But they haven’t or don’t want to

Unhelpful at best, don’t get your hopes up.