The RedCafe Boxing Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sport' started by CLK_FPC, Jan 27, 2009.

  1. Jul 3, 2019

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    I did a piece on the greatest British boxers in history. Thought I'd share it here. I'm going to tart it up with photos soon and will put it online. I hope you enjoy and any feedback is appreciated. Any discussion/debate is welcome too.

    Boxing in Great Britain goes back to the bare knuckle era so it’s no mystery that a sport with that much history has always held influence that has appealed to multiple generations of sports enthusiasts. The modern day boxing rules as we know it was written by Welshman John Graham Chambers and became known as Queensberry rules in 1886. British boxers maintained their success into the gloved era and continued to churn out high quality world champions over the first quarter century and then slowly started to see fewer champions signaling the end of a golden age of British boxing. By the end of the Second World War the champions become more few and far between through the 1960’s and 1970’s, however in the 1990’s some big domestic rivalries like Nigel Benn vs. Chris Eubank captivated the public and Lennox Lewis became the first British heavyweight champion in almost 100 years. The sport kept gaining further popularity with charismatic characters like Naseem Hamed proving big box office and Britain’s first Ring ‘Fighter of the year” was handed out to Ricky Hatton in 2005. By 2015 Britain had more world champions than any nation, the lineal heavyweight champion in Tyson Fury and Carl Frampton became the third British boxer to win “Fighter of the year in 2016. It’s safe to say with the money generated in the British game and the high volume of world champions produced we are witnessing something of a second golden age.

    Here I attempt to rank the greatest of all the British boxers dating back throughout the history of the sport. I don’t rate based on how I think fighters would do against others from different generations as that is far too speculative. My rating of fighters comes from breaking down the following criteria: quality of opponents, level of skill/talent, level of accomplishments, longevity, performances against larger opponents, ring generalship, how good they were relative to their era and dominance. It’s not an exact science and people value different criteria in a different way or use an entirely different criteria altogether.

    One thing that is worth noting and is perhaps a reason people tend to like to break the rankings down into a pre-war and post-war ranking is that in generations far back in America they used to have “newspaper” decisions. Some folks mistakenly dismiss these results which they shouldn’t. The simple reason fights went to newspaper decisions was in an attempt to keep the sport clean and keep gambling out of it. It is inconvenient that fighters could win the newspaper decision but not lift a title because the fight went to a newspaper poll. The results of the fights absolutely should be used to measure a fighter’s qualities and merits. I have included these results in the career totals for the fighters that they apply to.

    Anyway, without further ado here is my list of the 10 greatest boxers to ever emerge from Great Britain.


    10. Benny Lynch (SCOTLAND)

    Born: April 2nd, 1913 in Glasgow, Scotland

    Died: August 6th, 1946 in Glasgow, Scotland

    Years fought: 1931-1938

    Record: 88-14-17 with 34 knockouts

    World titles held: World flyweight 1935-1938

    Hall of fame induction: 1998

    Notable victories: KO13 Peter Kane, KO2 Jackie Brown, W15 Small Montana, KO12 Jackie Jurich, W12 Valentin Angelmann, W12 Maurice Huguenin

    The story of Scotland’s first world champion is one filled with enormous triumph and despairing tragedy. Born to Irish immigrants in the Gorbals neighborhood of Glasgow, Lynch fought his way up the flyweight rankings with an exciting energetic style of boxing. He was becoming wildly popular in Glasgow as he defeated a number of leading British contenders and two elite French contenders in Valentin Angelmann and Maurice Huguenin. In March of 1935, he held current flyweight champion Jackie Brown to a draw and then made history six months later when he travelled to Manchester to destroy Brown in two rounds. Brown, a veteran of over 100 fights had reigned supreme for three years but had no answer for the ferocity of the Scotsman’s attack. Little did people know it at the time but the absolute peak of Lynch’s career had been reached and his downfall was already in motion. His affable nature and popularity locally meant Lynch was often seen drinking and staying out late. He was able to score two of his biggest wins during these years when he won a decision over Small Montana and scored a thrilling knockout over the excellent Peter Kane but after missing weight for a 1938 title defense against American Jackie Jurich, he was stripped of his title before knocking Jurich out. Prior to that bout he had shown signs of slippage as he struggled to a draw in a re-match with Kane and was outpointed by Jimmy Warnock in an above the weight non-title bout. He lost two bouts consecutively in 1938 and also lost his license and was finished at the age of 25. His last bout was a knockout loss to Aurel Toma and in retirement his problems worsened as he was arrested for public intoxication and assault. He tried multiple times to kick his addiction but sadly died aged 33 of malnutrition induced respiratory failure.

    Historical pound for pound rankings elsewhere: Bert Sugar #93

    9. Ken Buchanan (SCOTLAND)

    Born: June 28th, 1945 in Edinburgh, Scotland

    Years fought: 1965-1982

    Record: 61-8 with 27 knockouts

    World titles held: WBA lightweight 1970-1972, WBC lightweight 1971

    Hall of fame induction: 2000

    Notable victories: W12, W12 Ismael Laguna, KO6 Carlos Ortiz, W15 Jim Watt, W15 Ruben Navarro, W10 Donato Paduano, KO8 Carlos Hernandez

    Often cited as the classiest post-war British boxer, this Edinburgh native was perhaps the greatest British road warrior having fought in 12 different countries throughout his hall of fame career. The Scotsman fought mostly around the London area on his way up before winning the British lightweight title in 1968 with an 11th round knockout of the talented Maurice Cullen. Buchanan started 1970 with his first setback as he travelled to Madrid in attempt to take the European crown against Miguel Velasquez but was on the wrong end of a controversial decision against the Spaniard. Later that year came his crowning moment when he travelled to Puerto Rico to dethrone the wonderful Panamanian world champion Ismael Laguna in the searing summer heat in San Juan. That victory is often shortlisted as one of the finest ever achieved by a British boxer and was repeated in style the following year when the pair headlined Madison Square Garden. In between those fights came classy performances against ex-world champion Carlos Hernandez and a unification victory over Ruben Navarro in Los Angeles. Timing is often everything in sports and unfortunately for Buchanan he happened to run into a special Panamanian fighter by the name of Roberto Duran in 1972. Buchanan fought gallantly but was stopped after a low blow in the 13th round of a fight in which he appeared headed to defeat. Buchanan never could get a re-match with Duran but scored big victories over Carlos Ortiz, Jim Watt and Frankie Otero before losing a razor thin decision in Japan against local hero Guts Ishimatsu. He fought on sporadically over the next few years going 5-5 in his last 10 fights before calling it a day. Buchanan was never a big puncher, but he had one of the best left hands in the business, endless stamina and a granite chin which served him well as he became without question the greatest British boxer of his generation.

    8. Jack ‘Kid’ Berg (ENGLAND)

    Born: June 28th, 1909 in London, England

    Died: April 22nd, 1981 in London

    Years fought: 1924-1945

    Record: 157-26-9 with 61 knockouts

    World titles held: World junior welterweight 1930-1931

    Hall of fame induction: 1994

    Notable victories: W10 Tony Canzoneri, W15, W10 Kid Chocolate, KO10, W10 Mushy Callahan, W10 Billy Petrolle, W10 Joe Glick, W10 Tony Herrera

    Due to an aggressive non-stop, crowd pleasing style of fighting Berg earned himself the nickname ‘The Whitechapel Windmill’, in reference to the part of East London he originated from. After 59 fights in England, Berg took his talents to America in 1928 where he would become quite a popular attraction. A knockout loss and draw to Billy Petrolle couldn’t hurt his momentum as he was able to outpoint Mushy Callahan and score multiple wins over the likes of Spug Myers and Bruce Flowers before making a huge splash when he scored a dominant victory over the great Tony Canzoneri in 1930 in what was described as one of the worst beatings the American fighter ever received. That victory was followed up with another win over Callahan, a split decision over the wildly popular Cuban legend Kid Chocolate and a re-match victory over previous conqueror Petrolle. The win over Chocolate was a huge victory in the career of Berg, as Chocolate was 56-0 at the time and considered a supreme stylist. Berg beat him with his rough style of fighting. The Callahan victory earned Berg the junior welterweight crown, a title he defended six times before being knocked out by Canzoneri in a re-match in 1931. He lost the rubber match by unanimous decision later that year and never reigned as world champion again but still fought on with sporadic successes here and there for 14 years winning the British title, repeating his victory over Chocolate and winning over 60 more fights across the world. Berg was not a smooth operator, but he was a rough and rugged customer who always came to fight and was tough as nails. He provided one of the deepest generations of lightweights with some really stiff competition and made his mark on both sides of the pond. In retirement he remained busy, owning a restaurant, working as a stuntman and going into the Royal Air Force. He died in 1991 at the age of 81.

    Historical pound for pound rankings elsewhere: Boxing.com #95

    7. Lennox Lewis (ENGLAND)

    Born: September 2nd, 1965 in London, England

    Years fought: 1989-2003

    Record: 41-2-1 with 32 knockouts

    World titles held: WBC heavyweight 1992-1994, 1997-2001, 2001-2003, IBF heavyweight 1999-2001, 2001-2002, WBA heavyweight 1999

    Hall of fame induction: 2009

    Notable victories: W12 Evander Holyfield, KO6 Vitali Klitschko, KO8 Mike Tyson, KO2 Donavan Ruddock, W10 Ray Mercer, KO2 Michael Grant

    Without question the greatest heavyweight that ever came from the British Isles in addition to being the last undisputed heavyweight champion of the world, Lewis spent the majority of his career being underappreciated. He won the Olympic gold medal representing Canada in 1988 and was awarded the WBC title when Riddick Bowe refused to fight him. Lewis had earned the number one ranking with a 2nd round blitzing of Donovan ‘Razor’ Ruddock in 1992 and successfully defended the title against Frank Bruno and Tony Tucker before being halted in two rounds by Oliver McCall. He came back re-energized with the legendary Emmanuel Steward as head trainer and earned another title shot with victories over Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer. He regained the WBC title with a 5th round TKO of Oliver McCall in 1997 before becoming the undisputed champion in 1999 by defeating the legendary Evander Holyfield. Lewis had been robbed in March of that year when a bogus draw meant Holyfield kept his WBA and IBF titles but soundly defeated the American in the November re-match. 2000 was a banner year for Lewis as he turned back the challenges of American hope, Michael Grant and the awesome punching David Tua. In 2001 a shock one-punch knockout defeat against Hasim Rahman hurt the Londoner’s momentum but he quickly regained the title with a brutal knockout of Rahman before thrashing Mike Tyson in what still remains the richest heavyweight prizefight of all-time. Lewis fought for the last time when he scored a stoppage victory over future hall of famer Vitali Klitschko in 2003 and retired having defeated every man he ever fought. Lewis called himself, a ‘pugilist specialist’ which is a pretty accurate moniker given that he was an excellent boxer with great intelligence. At 6 5, he had surprisingly good movements for a man his size in addition to owning one of the great jabs in heavyweight history and murderous punching power, particularly in his right hand.

    Historical pound for pound rankings elsewhere: Boxing.com #94

    6. Joe Calzaghe (WALES)

    Born: March 23rd, 1972 in Hammersmith, England

    Years fought: 1993-2008

    Record: 46-0 with 32 knockouts

    World titles held: WBO super middleweight 1997-2007, IBF super middleweight 2006, WBC & WBA super middleweight 2007-2008

    Hall of fame induction: 2014

    Notable victories: W12 Mikkel Kessler, W12 Jeff Lacy, W12 Bernard Hopkins, W12 Chris Eubank, KO2 Byron Mitchell, W12 Charles Brewer

    The only British world champion to ever retire undefeated, Joe Calzaghe eventually fulfilled the early promise he had shown after some frustrating periods of under achievement. After a promising amateur career, the Welshman struggled to make a splash in the early part of his career despite an impressive string of knockouts. In October or 1997 he captured the vacant WBO super middleweight title with a dominant unanimous decision victory over Chris Eubank. He would reign for an astonishing 10 years, defending that title 21 times. Critics often point to some of the opponents being mediocre and that is true but he did defeat ex-world champions like Robin Reid, Richie Woodhall, Charles Brewer, Byron Mitchell and took Jeff Lacy’s IBF title in dominant fashion as an underdog before topping off his reign relieving the unbeaten Mikkel Kessler of his WBA and WBC titles in a truly unforgettable night in Cardiff. The Lacy performance was the one that sold the American public on his abilities as he handed out one of the most dominant big fight performances of the modern era. Calzaghe perhaps didn’t get the respect he deserved from the American because most of his fights occurred in Britain but he closed out his career in 2008 when he won The Ring and lineal Light Heavyweight championship with a split decision against Bernard Hopkins in Las Vegas before calling it a career with a punishing unanimous decision over the legendary Roy Jones at Madison Square Garden in New York City Calzaghe was hampered by hand injuries throughout his career but was able to dominate due to his high volume of punches, seemingly limitless stamina and ring smarts which enabled him to adapt to whatever style was thrown at him. It was his father Enzo, a former musician with no previous boxing experience who trained him from punching pillows in their living room to the international boxing hall of fame in Canastota, NY.

    5. Jim Driscoll (WALES)

    Born: December 15th, 1880 in Cardiff, Wales

    Died: January 31st, 1925 in Cardiff, Wales

    Years fought: 1901-1919

    Record: 62-5-7 with 39 knockouts

    World titles held: None

    Hall of fame induction: 1990

    Notable victories: W10 NWS Abe Attell, KO5, W8 George Dixon, KO17, W20 Joe Bowker, W10 NWS Leach Cross, KO15, W10 Harry Mansfield, W12, W6 NWS Matty Baldwin

    One of the finest fighters in history to have never won a world title, Driscoll was one of the major proponents in pioneering a more scientific style of boxing. Born in a poor section of Cardiff to Irish immigrants, Driscoll would learn to fight in the boxing booths to help his mother after the death of his father at the age of 7. He gained popularity in his native Wales and scored a pair of wins over aging legend George Dixon before taking on the best of the English featherweights. In defeating Jack Roberts and Johnny Summers he earned the right to fight for the British title when he out boxed Joe Bowker over 15 rounds in 1907 in Govent Garden. The Welshman then went on a fine run which took him to America in 1908 where he gained rave reviews. His reputation built as he scored a trio of wins over Grover Hayes in addition to a pair of wins over the excellent Matty Baldwin and a victory over Leach Cross. By this time Driscoll was considered the favorite in a fight with long reigning featherweight king Abe Attell. In this fight Driscoll gave a wonderful exhibition of boxing in totally dominated the legendary champion and though Driscoll was given the newspaper verdict the title couldn’t change hands because Driscoll didn’t score a knockout such as the rules were at the time. Driscoll was asked to stay and fight for the title but instead set sail to return home the following day because he had promised to perform for a children’s charity citing that, “I never break a promise”. This type of gesture is what endeared the likeable Driscoll even further to his hometown. He started to struggle with illness and the effects of a party lifestyle shortly after and was defeated in America by Philadelphia Pal Moore before losing to fellow Welshman Freddie Welsh via disqualification in a hot tempered affair. He would fight just a handful more times as he suffered from tuberculosis before contracting pneumonia which killed him in 1925 at the age of 44. Driscoll had released a number of instructional boxing books to some critical acclaim given that his artistry and excellent use of the left hand, timing and distance earned him the nickname ‘Peerless’.

    Historical pound for pound rankings elsewhere: Bert Sugar #38, Boxing.com #80

    4. Ted ‘Kid’ Lewis (ENGLAND)

    Born: October 28th, 1893 in London, England

    Died: October 20th, 1970 in London, England

    Years fought: 1909-1929

    Record: 235-46-23 with 80 knockouts

    World titles held: World welterweight 1915-1916, 1917-1919

    Hall of fame induction: 1992

    Notable victories: W20, W12x2, W10 NWSx4 Jack Britton, W10 NWS Mike O’Dowd, W10 NWS Willie Ritchie, W20, W12x2, W10 NWS Johnny Griffiths, KO9, W10 NWSx2 Kid Graves, W10 NWSx2 Soldier Bartfield

    Despite being an aggressive come forward type fighter, Lewis had an incredible career which spanned 20 years and 300 fights. Born Gershon Mendeloff on London’s lower east end to Jewish parents, Lewis learned to fight on the streets at a young age before turning professional at the age of 18. Lewis squeezed 143 fights into his first five years with all those fights coming in Europe as he claimed the British and European titles in the featherweight division. He set sail for Australia in 1914 to take on the best lightweights in that country before embarking on America with his sights set on world titles. In 1915 he would meet Jack Britton which whom he formed one of the most historical rivalries of the sport as the two fought no fewer than 21 times between 1915-1921. Weighing in at just 134 lbs, the Englishman dethroned the great Britton in Boston and repeated his victory in his first title defense. The title would change hands again the following year with Britton also successfully defending his title in a re-match. During this period Lewis had defeated such notable opponents as Kid Graves and Willie Ritchie and also drew in a bid to win the crown back from Britton. Lewis went on a fine run of form which included four newspaper decisions over Britton and wins over Johnny Griffiths, Mike O’Dowd and Graves again. He finally won the welterweight title back with a 20-round decision of Britton in New York in 1917 and reigned for two years until Britton stopped him in Canton, Ohio. During this run Lewis had wins and losses against the likes of Soldier Bartfield, Griffiths, O’Dowd and a draw with the great Benny Leonard. He failed in subsequent attempts at Britton’s welterweight title ending their rivalry at 7-8-3 including newspaper decisions, he also failed in an attempt at O’Dowd’s middleweight title and was knocked out in one round in an audacious attempt at Georges Carpienter’s light heavyweight crown in 1922. He would wind down his career fighting mostly in his native England, winning more than losing but never again fighting for a world title before retiring in 1929. In the early part of his career he had more of a British style of boxing, moving and using defensive tactics before campaigning in America where he developed his aggressive take no prisoners swarming style. In retirement he suffered from Parkinson’s disease and died in 1970.

    Historical pound for pound rankings elsewhere: Bert Sugar #33, Boxing.com #58

    3. Freddie Welsh (WALES)

    Born: March 5th, 1886 in Pontypridd, Wales

    Died: July 29th, 1927 in New York City, USA

    Years fought: 1905-1922

    Record: 121-28-18 with 34 knockouts

    World titles held: World lightweight 1914-1917

    Hall of fame induction: 1997

    Notable victories: WDQ10 Jim Driscoll, W10 NWS Benny Leonard, W15 Abe Attell, W10 NWS Johnny Dundee, W20, W20 Willie Ritchie, KO8, WDQ11, W10 NWS Ad Wolgast

    Unusual for prizefighters in his day, Welsh was born into a relatively affluent family. Born Frederick Thomas, he adopted the name Welsh to hide the fact he was boxing from his family. One of the few vegetarians to ever win a world title, the charismatic Welsh moved to America at the age of 16 where he settled in Philadelphia. In 1907 he came back to Wales at the age of 21 with an American accent and style of boxing but won his hometown public over with a string of impressive performances which included a no-decision draw with countryman Jim Driscoll. He would set sail again for America in search of world title glory at the end of the year again settling in Philadelphia. A draw with the experienced title contender Willie Fitzgerald was followed by a decision loss and draw with all-time great Packey Macfarland would prove an invaluable lesson for the young Welshman. He closed out 1908 with a dominant points victory over the great Abe Attell before returning back home where he again got another draw with Macfarland before winning via disqualification over Driscoll in a foul filled re-match. The following years would prove frustrating for Welsh as he defeated such top fighters as Leach Cross, Philadephia Pal Moore and the great Johnny Dundee but struggled to get a title shot. That shot finally came in 1914 when he faced the excellent Willie Ritchie and defeated him on points. Welsh was a smart businessman and used his title as a way to make money but drew criticism by not putting his title on the line as much as fans would have liked. He lost and won newspaper decisions with the incredible Benny Leonard and took the scalps of such elite fighters as Ad Wolgast, Charlie White and Battling Nelson before going on a bit of a losing run which saw him dethroned by knockout against Leonard in 1917. Welsh squandered a lot of the fortune he amassed in retirement and ended up divorced and burned out from a fast lifestyle and was found dead in his New York City apartment in 1927, aged just 41. Welsh wasn’t known for being a powerful puncher, his style was more of an intelligent boxer who could fight in a number of different styles and possessed excellent defensive skills.

    Historical pound for pound rankings elsewhere: Bert Sugar #48, Boxing.com #59

    2. Jimmy Wilde (WALES)

    Born: May 12th, 1982 in Tylorstown, Wales

    Died: March 10th, 1969 in Cardiff, Wales

    Years fought: 1911-1923

    Record: 139-4-1 with 99 knockouts

    World titles held: World flyweight 1916-1923

    Hall of fame induction: 1990

    Notable victories: W20 Memphis Pal Moore, W10 Joe Lynch, KO11 Young Zulu Kid, KO12 Joe Conn, KO11 Tancy Lee, KO12, W12 Joe Symonds

    Aptly nicknamed ‘The ghost with the hammer in his fists’ and ‘The mighty atom’, Wilde started his career going 104 fights before he first tasted defeat. Often weighing in less than 100 lbs, in the modern era the Welshman would be considered small even for a straweight. Incredibly, he terrorized the flyweight division and consistently beat elite bantamweights. Whilst on his unbeaten run he defeated such standouts as Joe Symonds and Sid Smith before being stopped by Scotsman Tancy Lee in 1915. Another winning streak followed as Wilde defeated Symonds again for British and European recognition as the world champion before beating America’s title claimant, Young Zulu Kid in 1916. During this time he avenged the loss to Lee with an 11th round knockout and then reigned as a champion so dominant, the great Gene Tunney referred to him as, “The greatest fighter I ever saw.” An impressive knockout victory over featherweight Joe Conn in 1918 was followed up with wins against two of the finest bantamweights in history in 1919 when he defeated Joe Lynch and Memphis Pal Moore. In 1921 he was defeated by the great Pete Herman in a fight he was heavily outweighed. This fight represented the end of his prime as he was knocked out of the ring and landed on his head. After two years out of the ring he was talked into defending the flyweight title he still owned but was a shell of his former self as he was again knocked out, this time by Filipino Pancho Villa. In a wild fight, Wilde was hit after the bell and never fully recovered and was then brutally knocked out. He suffered memory loss that plagued him later in life. He lived his last few years in hospice after he was mugged by a gang of young thugs at a train station before passing away in 1969 at the age of 76. Wilde is widely touted for his incredible punching power but he also mastered the use of distance and timing and had fought with an incredible amount of heart and bravery.

    Historical pound for pound rankings elsewhere: Bert Sugar #15, Boxing.com #32, International Boxing Research Organization #14

    1. Bob Fitzsimmons (ENGLAND)

    Born: May 26th, 1863 in Cornwall, England

    Died: October 22nd, 1917 in Chicago, USA

    Years fought: 1885-1914

    Record: 68-12-13 with 57 knockouts

    World titles held: World middleweight 1891-1894, World heavyweight 1897-1899, World light heavyweight 1903-1905

    Hall of fame induction: 1990

    Notable victories: KO13 Jack ‘Nonpareil’ Dempsey, KO14 James J. Corbett, W20 George Gardner, KO2 Tom Sharkey, KO2 Dan Creedon, W6 NWS Philadelphia Jack O’Brien

    The first man to ever win three world titles in different divisions and the only man to ever reign as lineal champion of the middleweight and heavyweight divisions, Fitzsimmons was born in Cornwall, England before emigrating to New Zealand in his youth. He turned professional in Australia and after five years he moved to America where he would win the middleweight world title within a year when he stopped Jack ‘Nonpareil’ Dempsey in 1891. He maintained an impressive run which included beating such fighters as Harris Martin, Peter Maher and Jim Hall before his incredible 1897 conquest of James J. Corbett’s heavyweight world title which he won via 14th round knockout. He lost the title by knockout to James J. Jeffries in 1899 and was defeated again in a re-match to Jeffries in 1902. He had long since vacated his middleweight crown but was outsized heavily at heavyweight so he moved down to win the light heavyweight world title the following year with a victory over George Gardner. In his 20th year as a professional prizefighter at the age of 42 he was dethroned by Philadelphia Jack O’Brien after defeating him just five months prior. He would fight on sporadically for 10 more years which included a knockout loss to Jack Johnson before finally calling it a career at the age of 50 after an incredible career which spanned 29 years. Fitzsimmons was credited with many as being one of the most intelligent boxers of his generation which such fighters as Joe Gans marveling at the skills he possessed. He was tall and lanky but not muscle bound yet he was able to find the perfect locations on much larger opponents to dispose of them. Considered nearly unbeatable as a middleweight, the success he had has a heavyweight and as a light heavyweight into his 40’s suggests that Fitzsimmons is one of the absolute finest boxers in the history of the sport.

    Historical pound for pound rankings elsewhere: Bert Sugar #26, Boxing.com #6, International Boxing Research Organization #10

    -end-

    Honorable mentions (rough order): Owen Moran (Eng), Len Harvey (Eng), Randolph Turpin (Eng), Naseem Hamed (Eng), John Conteh (Eng), Freddie Mills (Eng), Jock McAvoy (Eng), Nigel Benn (Eng), Chris Eubank (Eng), Howard Winstone (Wal), Ricky Hatton (Eng), Peter Kane (Eng), Barry McGuigan (N. Ire) Carl Froch (Eng), John H. Stracey (Eng)

    Five for future consideration: Carl Frampton (N. Ire), Josh Taylor (Sco), Tyson Fury, Callum Smith, Anthony Joshua (all Eng)
  2. Jul 3, 2019

    altodevil Just another Duffy

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    Where do you have Lennox all-time heavyweight? Surprised to see him that low in your UK list. Stellar article though.
  3. Jul 3, 2019

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    Number four. I think he could place almost anywhere from 3-8 in reality. It's very close but he feels closer to the top 2 than the 9th and 10th guys. I think some will be surprised to see Lewis at #7 on my British list but I think it speaks to how great a lot of those fighters were prior to the war and how much I regard Calzaghe. Buchanan is one of my favorite fighters of all-time and I can't see him higher than were I placed him.
  4. Jul 3, 2019

    Welsh Wonder A dribbling mess on the sauce

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    Always enjoy reading your stuff on here.
  5. Jul 3, 2019

    poleglass red Full Member

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    Nice article, enjoyed reading that, was looking out for a fellow Belfast man but didn't see Rinty Monaghan, fought in the late 40's. Heard many great things about him from various boxing sources growing up
  6. Jul 3, 2019

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    Definitely a worthy mention. Legitimate champion in the one belt, eight division era. Retired as champion too, much like Benny Lynch never lost it in the ring. Another excellent Belfast fighter was Johnny Caldwell, who was unfortunate to have came along in an era where Eder Jofre was the dominant champion. That fight took his prime away. Before that he was 25-0 had the EBU recognition as bantamweight champion after defeating the excellent French fighter Alphonse Halimi twice. He got a medal at the Melbourne Olympics too. I believe they put a statue up of him not too long ago. Freddie Gilroy was another good one from that era too.

    Boxing News did their top 100 British fighters and placed Monaghan around 50, which seems too low. They had Fitzsimmons at 6 which is shocking.
  7. Jul 5, 2019

    poleglass red Full Member

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    Seen Caldwell a lot in my area growing up, he lived near me. He had it tough in later yrs.
  8. Jul 5, 2019

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    How so? Dementia or broke? It wasn't long ago that he passed away.
  9. Jul 5, 2019

    Luke1995 Full Member

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    Thank you for the talk! I'll study the heavyweight history of boxing and try to come back at a future time to give my take on it.
  10. Jul 6, 2019

    Luke1995 Full Member

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    Also, enjoyed reading the piece on british boxing. @Inter Yer Nan knows his stuff!
  11. Jul 6, 2019

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    I’d say you should watch all the good fights from the two heavyweight golden eras of the 1970s and 1990s. That’s always a good start and then you’ll like certain fighters based off of that. I think most great heavyweights have a documentary or two that’s easily accessible on YouTube as well.

    A great series of quick bouts is the Patterson-Johansson trilogy. Patterson was a small heavyweight really. In this day and age would have stayed at 175 and absolutely dominated but that era the biggest thing in sports was the heavyweight title. His fight with Chuvalo was great too. In fact, Patterson scored a number of excellent wins after Liston KO’d him twice in a round.
  12. Jul 6, 2019

    Luke1995 Full Member

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    Yeah i'll definitely do that! I'm reading a book by Peter Heller where quite a few world champions told their stories, it's amazing how many of them were fighting bigger men.

    Do you have any other must-see fights from other weight classes ? Guess the Duran-Leonard ''No mas'' one is a good start.
  13. Jul 6, 2019

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    That book is fantastic. I put it up there with “Corner men” by Ronald Fried as one of the greatest sports books ever.

    I did a list of easily accessible fights not long ago. It was about 60-70 classic fights I’ll try to dig it up. I’ll give you a quick list. I’ll say the following non-heavyweight fights are essential viewing (going down from light heavyweight):-

    Matthew Saad Muhammad-Yaqui Lopez II
    Matthew Saad Muhammad-Marvin Johnson I & II*
    Marvin Hagler-Thomas Hearns
    Felix Trinidad-Fernando Vargas
    Sugar Ray Leonard-Thomas Hearns I
    Roberto Duran-Sugar Ray Leonard
    Aaron Pryor-Alexis Arguello I
    Julio Cesar Chavez-Meldrick Taylor I
    Mickey Ward-Arturo Gatti I
    Diego Corrales-Jose Luis Castillo I
    Juan Manuel Marquez-Juan Diaz I
    Bobby Chacon-Rafael Limon IV
    Bobby Chacon-Cornelius Boza-Edwards II
    Salvador Sanchez-Wilfredo Gomez
    Salvador Sanchez-Azumah Nelson
    Alexis Arguello-Ruben Olivares
    Erik Morales-Marco Antonio Barrera I
    Wilfredo Gomez-Lupe Pintor
    Israel Vazquez-Rafael Marquez III
    Ruben Olivares-Kazuyoshi Kanazawa II*
    Ruben Olivares-Chucho Castillo I & II
    Eder Jofre-Fighting Harada I
    Eder Jofre-Jose Medel I
    Michael Carbajal-Humberto Gonzalez I

    You can’t really go wrong with the Marquez-Pacquaio series either.

    * I think Saad Muhammad and Olivares are the two most entertaining fighters in history. Perhaps Bobby Chacon would be next. Unreal action in their fights.

    I think a great fight to start is the fight I call the best ever, Pryor-Arguello I. I put a couple of Jofre fights in as they were great and I consider him to perhaps the most perfect technical fighter caught on film and a top 10 fighter all-time period. Those fights were excellent too but the Medel picture quality isn’t great. I have better versions of those fights I should upload to YouTube soon.

    James Toney-Vasily Jirov is another one well worth a watch. A modern classic.
  14. Jul 6, 2019

    Luke1995 Full Member

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    Big thanks @Inter Yer Nan

    When I watch some of those, i'll make sure to get back in here.

    And lastly from me, do you think Andy Ruiz Jr can stay where he is or Joshua/Wilder/Fury are likely to '' take his head off '' next ?
  15. Jul 6, 2019

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    He has a great chance to beat Joshua again and would against Wilder too. Fury? Nah. Fury would school him.
  16. Jul 7, 2019

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    I've always thought that was truly incredible. Great list as well, and it's a pleasure reading your stuff.
  17. Jul 7, 2019

    P-Nut fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

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    Anyone got a river for the UFC tonight?
  18. Jul 7, 2019

    MaxiPaxi likes to shove his mum's boiled eggs up his rectum

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    How has @Inter Yer Nan has not got a distinguished tagline for his excellent boxing knowledge?

    It’s well deserved, imo.
  19. Jul 7, 2019

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    That 1980s crop of heavyweights was underrated. Some very talented fighters there, although most of them seemed to be nutters and/or exceptionally fond of their recreational drugs.

    Overall, His résumé is good, albeit much weaker than it should have been if he'd kept his focus and hadn't burned out so early. I'll freely admit that I'm a huge fan, but Ali is the only great that I see as a near-certainty to beat him at their respective peaks. I'd heavily favour Foreman too, but beyond that I can see an argument for him against anyone, albeit I wouldn't necessarily view him as the favourite.
  20. Jul 7, 2019

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    Indeed. May I suggest "Redcafe's Hank Kaplan" and implore @Damien to make it happen?
  21. Jul 7, 2019

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    Indeed the division is vastly underrated as was Larry Holmes’. If not for Holmes then Tyson some of those guys would be bigger. It’s troubling to me that King kept Witherspoon away from Tyson given that Tim gave Holmes such problems. Tyson deserves more credit for the wins over Tubbs, Thomas etc; don’t forget Tubbs gave Bowe hell.
  22. Jul 7, 2019

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    I appreciate the compliment. Yes, the Calzaghe clan was something special. I think Enzo should be posthumously inducted into the hall of fame with his son. What he accomplished was nothing short of incredible.

    I’m an unabashed Calzaghe fan. Absolutely loved the both of them.
  23. Jul 7, 2019

    El General 1994 Full Member

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    Absolutely. I’ve been banging on about it for ages. The Caf’s own Steve Bunce.
  24. Jul 7, 2019

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    On the subject of Calzaghe. Cracking documentary for those who haven’t seen it.
  25. Jul 8, 2019

    poleglass red Full Member

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    unfortunately the demon drink got the better of him. He would roam the streets near where I grew up. Strange thing was in the midst of his issues he would always be so precise when talking about his career. He'd go from drunk rambling street man to coherent in an instant. Great guy, was never rude or anything, just sad how it ended for him.
  26. Jul 9, 2019

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    Fury confirmed he's signed for the Wilder re-match. I'm hearing it would be February most likely at T-Mobile arena in Las Vegas. Steve Kim reporting still that Wilder-Ortiz II is happening in September, probably in LA. Some rumors that they had scrapped that fight given that it's 2 months away and no announcement. Hopefully they don't put Fury on ice until then. I still feel he needs some more rounds to get closer to peak condition.
  27. Jul 11, 2019

    SilentWitness ShoelessWitness Staff

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    Dillian Whyte is doing Celebrity Masterchef, what? :lol:
  28. Jul 11, 2019

    simonhch Horrible boss

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    My boxing trainer has someone connected with the Joshua camp, and the word is that he was knocked out on sparring the week before the fight and was concussed. Hearn, amongst others, didn’t want to cancel or postpone because of all the ticket sales. So he fought, but shouldn’t have. First blow and he was fecked.

    If he still has the hunger, I think we’ll see a very different Joshua in the rematch. That said, Ruiz is a good fighter.
  29. Jul 11, 2019

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. I've heard in the past stories about him KO'd by Dubois, I think he (Joshua) himself even owned up to Price laying him out once. He's got a weak spot for sure and we know he tires but he turned to jello the moment he got touched by Ruiz, a solid, but not sledgehammer hitter.
  30. Jul 11, 2019

    RedFish Full Member

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    I love Dillian. He's got a personality.
  31. Jul 12, 2019

    FC Ronaldo Posts stuff that's been said before in tweet form

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  32. Jul 12, 2019

    Carl has permanently erect nipples

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    Amir Khan is fighting tonight on channel 5. What??
  33. Jul 12, 2019

    T00lsh3d Full Member

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    Can you be nicknamed ‘the bodysnatcher’ and go on Celebrity Masterchef?
  34. Jul 12, 2019

    predator Youth NITK

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    Fury vs Peter just now was awkward viewing. Referee was terrible and Peter was fouling almost every minute. The coverage from channel 5 aswell is poor.

    Pretty funny actually.
  35. Jul 12, 2019

    pauldyson1uk Full Member

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    I just watched , it was a joke of a fight , Fury was not that good , but Peter was dreadful, should have his purse withdrawn for that fight, the ref did not help.
  36. Jul 12, 2019

    predator Youth NITK

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    Khan va Dibs was predictable. Dibs is awful. Khan is fast as usual. The most interesting thing was the fact that round 2 was ended 18 seconds quick. Did anyone else notice that?
  37. Jul 12, 2019

    Habs Full Member

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    Yeh, shows what a joke this event is.

    Amir Khan is completely done at the top level as far as I'm concerned. Anyone half decent will put him down, he should retire.
  38. Jul 13, 2019

    One Night Only Prison Bitch #24604

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    And now khan wants to fight Pacquiao :lol:
  39. Jul 13, 2019

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    So, Khan felt compelled to say he was badly injured entering the Crawford fight and had “major” surgery and then fights within a month? The man’s a total joker. He must be trolling, surely? I mean he has to know.
  40. Jul 13, 2019

    One Night Only Prison Bitch #24604

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    Head full of cartoons. He has some self confidence, feck knows why though.