Shit.
Better pull through!The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Better pull through!Crazy. Hope he pulls through. Worrying times whenever you see images like that.
Not good hope he pulls through.
Prayers to him and his family. I hope he makes a quick and full recovery.
Tomorrow's fights appear to be woeful mismatches for the elite fighters. Usyk's heavyweight debut opponent being last minute opponent, Chazz Witherspoon after Tyrone Spong popped for PED's. Witherspoon has fought largely poor competition on this 8 fight win streak that dates back to his knockout loss to Seth Mitchell. I do like watching Usyk a lot though and it's his first fight in nearly a year, plus first pro bout at heavyweight where I expect him to do very well.
Dmitry Bivol vs. Lenin Castillo isn't entirely interesting to me much as I like (and rate) Bivol. Castillo's one brush with the top 10 in the division came when he was handily defeated by Marcus Browne, though he managed to score a knockdown of Browne. Bivol has had a few fights where the opponent has realized early they can't beat him so they've just taken shut out losses. That wouldn't be surprising here to me. Bivol brings good form to the ring having dominated Joe Smith, Jean Pascal, Sullivan Barrera and Isaac Chilemba. Bivol for my money has a very legitimate claim to being the best in the division. Certainly, the winner of next weeks great fight between Gvozdyk vs. Beterbiev against Bivol will be the fight to make hopefully next year. Bivol has also said he can make 168 no problem and he's a Hearn promoted DAZN boxer so he's very possibly in the future of Canelo.
Josh Warrington also will be defending his titles against unheralded Frenchman Sofiane Takoucht who I confess to not having seen or heard of but looking at his record is nothing to get excited about.
Dmitry Bivol vs. Lenin Castillo isn't entirely interesting to me much as I like (and rate) Bivol. Castillo's one brush with the top 10 in the division came when he was handily defeated by Marcus Browne, though he managed to score a knockdown of Browne. Bivol has had a few fights where the opponent has realized early they can't beat him so they've just taken shut out losses. That wouldn't be surprising here to me. Bivol brings good form to the ring having dominated Joe Smith, Jean Pascal, Sullivan Barrera and Isaac Chilemba. Bivol for my money has a very legitimate claim to being the best in the division. Certainly, the winner of next weeks great fight between Gvozdyk vs. Beterbiev against Bivol will be the fight to make hopefully next year. Bivol has also said he can make 168 no problem and he's a Hearn promoted DAZN boxer so he's very possibly in the future of Canelo.
Josh Warrington also will be defending his titles against unheralded Frenchman Sofiane Takoucht who I confess to not having seen or heard of but looking at his record is nothing to get excited about.
This is probably one of those rare occasions where not wearing a seatbelt saved Spencer's life as he probably was ejected on the first flip...
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Spence is likely to get a driving ban but to get away with nothing broken is a miracle and he should count his blessings. I'm very happy he's going to make a full recovery. Spence seems a good kid.
At this point, could Pacquiao be competitive with Canelo ? Hope it happens before it's too late
Way too big. Clenelo is fighting Kovalev at LHW, although that I suspect will be one time thing. Can't imagine that he would ever cut to to junior middleweight again.
He could if the money was right, but like always, the biggest problem in boxing is the different promoters holding up all the big fights from happening
I don't see it. Don't think Canelo could or even would go down to JMW and even then he'd still likely be far too big and strong anyways. Pacquiao has never fought at 154 before iirc
Pacman would have to go up to middleweight for it, and i don't see why he would. He's made more than enough money already that he doesn't need to get brutally KO'd fighting a guy he has no prayer of surviving
Pacman would have to go up to middleweight for it, and i don't see why he would. He's made more than enough money already that he doesn't need to get brutally KO'd fighting a guy he has no prayer of surviving
No, he's far too small. Canelo is a big middleweight who enters the ring weighing in as a light heavyweight. Pacquaio also can't quite go for 12 rounds at his old pace too so would struggle to keep a much larger, younger man off of him. I think he'd struggle too much with Spence or Porter also and that's within the same weight class.
So, who can realistically give Canelo a serious threat ?
Jon Jones
You do know that boxing is the weakest part of Jon Jones's game, right ?
I think he is too tough to be finished, but he would be a punching bag for 12 rounds.
Maybe his next opponent? Or his last one?
Canelo is generally facing tough competition
Who said anything about boxing?
Yeah, VADA.
A lot of guys. He really lost twice to Golovkin, I don’t think a third would be a formality. Perhaps Kovalev in his next fight if he’s not completely worn out. Andrade would be about 50/50 with him and I think Saunders and Dereyvchenko can give him tough fights too.
There’s also Bivol who’s said he’ll go down to 168 for Canelo and there’s Callum Smith. I’d make him an underdog against both.
Canelo rarely dominates. He’s skilled enough to hang with most but he also fights in spurts and tires quite a lot so his punch output slows.
To pick up on the matter, is there any mma fighter right now who you would confidently pick to beat a boxer in the ring ? I'm pretty sure there are a few guys out there who would do better than Conor.Who said anything about boxing?
No
Weili Zhang looks impressive wirking the pads. Speed and power.
Randamie throws a beautiful punch.
Poirier has real rhythm
Someone like Leon Edward's who has exceptional timing and super fast hands.
Wouldn't say I'd be confident they"d win. It's just different.
Of course. Pretty sure of you look through Wilder's record you'd find a guy or two who'd get killed by Ngannou
Now, fighters ranked within their divisions? Nope
Unless someone knocks him out, Canelo won't 'lose' in this 10 fight agreement with DAZN.
Who do you think wins out of Bivol v Gvozdyk if it gets made?
I see Gvozdyk winning quite handily against Beterbiev. I feel his resume over the last few fighters have been more impressive and he shouldn't be too worried about Beterbiev's power after facing Stevenson. Beterbiev hasn't impressed me lately, and got knocked down by Callum Johnson.
I both those light heavyweight fights are almost 50/50. I think Beterbiev has stagnated somewhat because he had the wrong manager and promoter. He was signed under the PBC umbrella who desperately wanted to keep him from Stevenson and could barely get him fights. Remember, he was the best amateur out of all these Eastern European light heavies, going 2-0 vs. Kovalev and stopping Gvozdyk. I think we'll see his potential on Friday because the opponent is so good. I personally pick Gvozdyk still, but his chin is suspect to me. I think Beterbiev can and will hit him more than Stevenson and he does hit very hard. Gvozdyk can also tend to "mail it in" but I think he'll be alert for this one given the opponent commands respect.
I'll pick Gvozdyk to box smart and overcome a few hairy moments to win a competitive decision. I think he'll use his superior footwork and sacrifice a bit of power to box and move. It's a great fight and could go many different ways like a shootout where they both go down but the smart money would probably be on a boxing match.
Regarding Bivol. I think Bivol is the smoothest fighter in the division and perhaps the best overall talent if not the biggest puncher. He was banging out guys in one or two rounds that fans came to expect that but recently all his opponents are more seasoned and in survival mode so he's had to go the distance a lot which seems to have curtailed some of the buzz around him. I expect Bivol will be fighting for all four titles in the next 12-18 months and gun against ahead I think that opponent would be Gvozdyk. I need to see more of both before making a real pick with any conviction.
Patrick Day has passed away due to his head injury in his fight 4 days ago
feck, that's sad.
So unfair and so sad. By all accounts I heard he was a great kid.
https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...now-praying-god-saves-joe-higgins-patrick-day
Smart kid too. It's tough reading this.
Smart kid too. It's tough reading this.
I've started a piece on Jimmy Wilde which I should complete in a week or two. Been a little snowed under at work but here's the intro I've got. I've got about 6,000 words so far so about halfway through. The rest of the piece will have his bio from childhood to his career and beyond, plenty of quotes from the great man himself, his peers and historians that actually saw him and met him. Also some information on particular fights which are also hard to find online.
There is an old English idiom that warns “never judge a book by its cover” and if that were true of any boxer it would be most apt when discussing the mighty Jimmy Wilde. Wilde, from the mining town of Tylorstown in the South Wales valleys fought most of his career tipping the scales less than 100 lbs. Wilde didn’t have the “look” of your typical fighter. He was almost sickly looking, with thin arms and almost equally thin legs. He was very youthful looking which caused many earlier opponents to underestimate him until they felt his power and then the word got out on this wonder of the ring. There are a number of nom de guerre’s associated with the diminutive Welshman, “The mighty atom”, “The Tylorstown terror” and “The ghost with a hammer in his hand” being the most popularly used among them.
Wilde is often credited among the biggest punchers, pound for pound in the history of boxing, scoring a recorded 99 knockouts during his legendary career. In his prime he was one of the most dominant boxers in history. He holds the record for the longest opening streak to a career with (at least) 104 fights before his first loss. He has universal claim as the greatest flyweight in the history of boxing and is often cited as the greatest boxer to ever come from Great Britain.
The numbers and the nicknames tell of Wilde’s spectacular punching power but he was, perhaps above all, a masterful boxer who perfected many nuances of the sweet science. Wilde was not an imposing looking fighter, standing just 5 feet 2 inches, with very slender in build. He had exceptionally long arms for a man his size with a reach of 68 inches and an incredible sense of distance and timing. Wilde was able to move around the ring at ease; in such a smooth manner that he was always in position to pounce on an opponent’s opening or start a ferocious attack. His boxing brain stood out from his peers and helped back up an assuredness that helped Wilde take on men much bigger than him. His ability to anticipate his opponents movements as well as his ability to set traps often meant that Wilde, supported by his excellent balance and poise, was usually the ring general controlling the pace and direction of the bout. Having mastered the ability to lead or counter, Wilde was able to fight at distance or in close and was excellent with both hands. It was in the boxing booths where he learned how to use an opponent’s leverage against themselves when he was taking on men reportedly over 100 lbs heavier than himself. His ability to control the distance and position himself meant that he could make the larger opponents’ move towards him with the full force of their body thus enhancing the force of the blows he would land rendered many men helpless. You’ll notice watching a lot of fighters from this era that it was common for a lot of fighters to use the open hand of their gloves in an attempt to shoeshine their shots but Wilde was against that very style and always punched with the fist closed. He also preferred to box without using clinches so his style was very pure in that respect and based on clean punching.
Wilde was considered one of the most entertaining boxers of his time as he thrilled fans in South Wales from Pontypridd to Tonypandy before making waves north across the English border in Liverpool, Manchester and throughout Yorkshire before becoming a favorite at the prestigious National Sporting Club in London. In America he won over an audience which was skeptical and hostile at first but grew to appreciate the style and personality of the classy little Welshman. His style consisted of a number of the principals of the classic British style of boxing, with emphasis on an upright stance and importance on having a strong, straight left hand, a style which was perfected by ‘peerless’ Jim Driscoll, another Welshman who’d enjoyed rave reviews on his voyages to the States. Wilde, perhaps wasn’t as quintessentially classical in the style as Driscoll, having mainly taught himself a style of his own from watching others and studying everything he could relating to the sweet science. Wilde
Many boxing fans may not know it today, but Wales has one of the proudest and oldest traditions in the sport of boxing. It was a Welshman, John Graham Chambers, who in 1867, wrote up the modern rules of boxing which are known as The Marquis of Queensbury rules. A passion for boxing dates far back in Welsh history with many tales of famous mountain fighters which was when rivals often went to find a place away from police interference to settle differences and wager bets. The boxing booths were a huge draw in many fairgrounds throughout Wales, particularly South Wales and it is here where Jimmy Wilde was discovered by the colorful booth operator, Jack Scarrot. The boxing booths were a big part of the boxing culture throughout Wales and one of the best educations an aspiring fighter could get. At a time when even gloved boxing was frowned upon and often prevented in parts of Wales, the mountains is where fighting men would go to settle differences and wagers outside of the eyes of the police. Over time gloved prizefighting started to become more tolerated and then the booths started to gain popularity. The concept was that a booth proprietor would stand outside the booth, which was almost like a carnival tent on a fairground, and invite people in to challenge the boxers. Small prizes, mostly currency were offered to the winners, or if someone simply lasted the duration of the bout without being knocked out. Fighters such as Driscoll and Wilde wooed audiences here and really cut their teeth as boxers learning their art form. It proved a great learning ground as these fighters took on many different styles and sizes of boxers and fighters and many times, they’d fight multiple times in one day. One time, Jimmy once recalled that he took on 16 different opponents and won them all by knockout.
The early part of the 20th century signified the golden era of Welsh boxing with such fighters as Freddie Welsh, Jim Driscoll, Percy Jones and Tom Thomas claiming multiple Lonsdale and world titles between them. It is testament to the wonderful Jimmy Wilde that he is seen, almost without objection, the greatest of them all above such hall of fame legends as Welsh and Driscoll. No region of Great Britain ever produced a trio of that caliber so geographically close to each other in such a small time frame. These hard champions were made and defined by hard times as they rose to the top of their chosen professions and helped wave the British flag high as far as America where they wooed audiences with their exciting styles and won over fans with their affable personalities. The Welsh valleys have still produced a number of world champions over the years such as the excellent Howard Winstone and the unbeaten legend of recent times, Joe Calzaghe but without question it was the first 20 years of the last century which was the golden era of Welsh boxing. It is fitting that that era ended with the fighter whose star burned brightest, the “Ghost with the hammer in his hands”, the incredible Jimmy Wilde.
There is an old English idiom that warns “never judge a book by its cover” and if that were true of any boxer it would be most apt when discussing the mighty Jimmy Wilde. Wilde, from the mining town of Tylorstown in the South Wales valleys fought most of his career tipping the scales less than 100 lbs. Wilde didn’t have the “look” of your typical fighter. He was almost sickly looking, with thin arms and almost equally thin legs. He was very youthful looking which caused many earlier opponents to underestimate him until they felt his power and then the word got out on this wonder of the ring. There are a number of nom de guerre’s associated with the diminutive Welshman, “The mighty atom”, “The Tylorstown terror” and “The ghost with a hammer in his hand” being the most popularly used among them.
Wilde is often credited among the biggest punchers, pound for pound in the history of boxing, scoring a recorded 99 knockouts during his legendary career. In his prime he was one of the most dominant boxers in history. He holds the record for the longest opening streak to a career with (at least) 104 fights before his first loss. He has universal claim as the greatest flyweight in the history of boxing and is often cited as the greatest boxer to ever come from Great Britain.
The numbers and the nicknames tell of Wilde’s spectacular punching power but he was, perhaps above all, a masterful boxer who perfected many nuances of the sweet science. Wilde was not an imposing looking fighter, standing just 5 feet 2 inches, with very slender in build. He had exceptionally long arms for a man his size with a reach of 68 inches and an incredible sense of distance and timing. Wilde was able to move around the ring at ease; in such a smooth manner that he was always in position to pounce on an opponent’s opening or start a ferocious attack. His boxing brain stood out from his peers and helped back up an assuredness that helped Wilde take on men much bigger than him. His ability to anticipate his opponents movements as well as his ability to set traps often meant that Wilde, supported by his excellent balance and poise, was usually the ring general controlling the pace and direction of the bout. Having mastered the ability to lead or counter, Wilde was able to fight at distance or in close and was excellent with both hands. It was in the boxing booths where he learned how to use an opponent’s leverage against themselves when he was taking on men reportedly over 100 lbs heavier than himself. His ability to control the distance and position himself meant that he could make the larger opponents’ move towards him with the full force of their body thus enhancing the force of the blows he would land rendered many men helpless. You’ll notice watching a lot of fighters from this era that it was common for a lot of fighters to use the open hand of their gloves in an attempt to shoeshine their shots but Wilde was against that very style and always punched with the fist closed. He also preferred to box without using clinches so his style was very pure in that respect and based on clean punching.
Wilde was considered one of the most entertaining boxers of his time as he thrilled fans in South Wales from Pontypridd to Tonypandy before making waves north across the English border in Liverpool, Manchester and throughout Yorkshire before becoming a favorite at the prestigious National Sporting Club in London. In America he won over an audience which was skeptical and hostile at first but grew to appreciate the style and personality of the classy little Welshman. His style consisted of a number of the principals of the classic British style of boxing, with emphasis on an upright stance and importance on having a strong, straight left hand, a style which was perfected by ‘peerless’ Jim Driscoll, another Welshman who’d enjoyed rave reviews on his voyages to the States. Wilde, perhaps wasn’t as quintessentially classical in the style as Driscoll, having mainly taught himself a style of his own from watching others and studying everything he could relating to the sweet science. Wilde
Many boxing fans may not know it today, but Wales has one of the proudest and oldest traditions in the sport of boxing. It was a Welshman, John Graham Chambers, who in 1867, wrote up the modern rules of boxing which are known as The Marquis of Queensbury rules. A passion for boxing dates far back in Welsh history with many tales of famous mountain fighters which was when rivals often went to find a place away from police interference to settle differences and wager bets. The boxing booths were a huge draw in many fairgrounds throughout Wales, particularly South Wales and it is here where Jimmy Wilde was discovered by the colorful booth operator, Jack Scarrot. The boxing booths were a big part of the boxing culture throughout Wales and one of the best educations an aspiring fighter could get. At a time when even gloved boxing was frowned upon and often prevented in parts of Wales, the mountains is where fighting men would go to settle differences and wagers outside of the eyes of the police. Over time gloved prizefighting started to become more tolerated and then the booths started to gain popularity. The concept was that a booth proprietor would stand outside the booth, which was almost like a carnival tent on a fairground, and invite people in to challenge the boxers. Small prizes, mostly currency were offered to the winners, or if someone simply lasted the duration of the bout without being knocked out. Fighters such as Driscoll and Wilde wooed audiences here and really cut their teeth as boxers learning their art form. It proved a great learning ground as these fighters took on many different styles and sizes of boxers and fighters and many times, they’d fight multiple times in one day. One time, Jimmy once recalled that he took on 16 different opponents and won them all by knockout.
The early part of the 20th century signified the golden era of Welsh boxing with such fighters as Freddie Welsh, Jim Driscoll, Percy Jones and Tom Thomas claiming multiple Lonsdale and world titles between them. It is testament to the wonderful Jimmy Wilde that he is seen, almost without objection, the greatest of them all above such hall of fame legends as Welsh and Driscoll. No region of Great Britain ever produced a trio of that caliber so geographically close to each other in such a small time frame. These hard champions were made and defined by hard times as they rose to the top of their chosen professions and helped wave the British flag high as far as America where they wooed audiences with their exciting styles and won over fans with their affable personalities. The Welsh valleys have still produced a number of world champions over the years such as the excellent Howard Winstone and the unbeaten legend of recent times, Joe Calzaghe but without question it was the first 20 years of the last century which was the golden era of Welsh boxing. It is fitting that that era ended with the fighter whose star burned brightest, the “Ghost with the hammer in his hands”, the incredible Jimmy Wilde.
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Great piece, thanks.
I can’t think of Jimmy without remembering Johnny Owen.
Wilde was Johnny's idol. He read everything he could find on him. Both skinny, unique looking fighters with humongous hearts and fighting spirit.
Yep. You know more about it than I but I always quote Johnny as one of my favourite scrappers.
Excellent fight. I felt Beterbiev was having it his way most of the way but Gvozdyk was winning rounds. Great killer instinct by Beterbiev.
Scott Fitzgerald new British champ. He's a good lad.
Disappointed to see Cheeseman storm out of the ring following the decision. Bad sport.
Disappointed to see Cheeseman storm out of the ring following the decision. Bad sport.
Beterbiev's power was just too much. Surprised by the result but fair play to him. Would have loved to see him v Kov a few years back.
Beterbiev v Bivol hopefully next.
Beterbiev v Bivol hopefully next.
Beterbiev has a mandatory due next but Arum said they'd do Beterbiev-Bivol on ESPN. I'm thinking it can happen in the summer.
How does everyone see Prograis-Taylor going this weekend? Potential fight of the year? I'm debating getting the ppv although I'm loathed to pay for it.
I think the PPV factor was coming from Chisora vs. Parker being on the undercard to back it up. No way are Prograis and Taylor big enough names to be on PPV alone (or with Price vs. Chisora which is a pretty shit fight.) The problem being if Eddie took it off PPV he'd look a bit stupid for having it there in the first place. I reckon it'll do awful numbers, possibly lowest Sky Box Office numbers in years.
I think Prograis will win though and yeah it should be a good fight which is a shame it's not on normal Sky sports as it would get more eyes on the fight and be beneficial in the long run.
I’m extremely excited for it. It’s probably my most ancipated fight of the year alongside Beterbiev-Gvozdyk.
It could very well be fight of the year. There’s a great contrast and mix in styles. Taylor the better, rangier boxer but has been getting hit a little too easy against Prograis, the more aggressive fighter and bigger puncher. Prograis’ office is mid-range. If he can keep it there he may just be too strong and relentless whereas Taylor has got to be using his height and reach. Prograis does have quite a lot of holes defensively and Taylor has decent power as well.
Another genuine 50/50 that I’ve gone back and forth on. I’ve been leaning more towards Prograis then I was when it was signed but will still side with my initial pick of Taylor on a close decision.