Is that the same bone Kell Brook broke?
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Ah well.
Glad Canelo won, Saunders is a horrible cnut of a person...he did box well but I reckon if it carried on Canelo would of won comfortably and probably stopped it.
agreed, couldn’t happen to a nicer person
Yep, he’s a complete dickhead was surprised at the support he was getting last night.
Pundits or ex fighters going on about boxers quitting is one of the dumbest and annoying things in boxing.
In a sport that has deaths and permanent health damage, you’d expect them to be a bit more rational. Do they want boxers to go blind?
In a sport that has deaths and permanent health damage, you’d expect them to be a bit more rational. Do they want boxers to go blind?
Think so yeah..
True....Saunders said the exact same thing about Dubois and Kell Brook though so he's as bad as people criticising him.
Unless you bring a sledgehammer to the ring theres no chance anyone is beating Canelo.
So HHH can do what GGG couldn't.
Not having short camps for fights that are announced on short notice for drug cycling purposes might help.
Canelo is as obvious as Lance Armstrong at this stage
I do believe hes a drug cheat. All the bs about ‘contaminated beef’ is just because he got caught taking PED’s.
Unless hes taking the other kind of beef injections
A
After that the shorter camps came into play. Shorter camps equals less time for testing and can cycle off closer to fight night
Saunders has failed a drug test to though so it's swings and roundabouts surely...
Theyre all at it imo but Canelo found a way to ramp it up. He is a step down from Jones for me.
If its accepted then fair enough but the way his power carries through the divisions is ridulous. If the argument was he isnt juicing then God knows what he would be like if he was.
Yeah think Brook has done it twice now, once against GGG and the other vs Errol Spence
Its not just his power. His endurance has improved tremendously too. He went from someome who would be gassed out midway to throwing power punches from start to finish. It is incredibly suspicious.
That said, he is still a great boxer. I just don't like the manufactured hype that surrounds him.
True and not disagreeing with you, I just find it hard to sympathise with someone who has failed a drugs test because someone is a better drug cheat.
I used to get worked up about it but it just doesn't bother me now, they all know it and are happy to get in the ring with him so it's their choice. I appreciate there is obviously a huge financial gain but the reality is if the top guys are on something then anyone at that level will be as well just to keep up. I read Tyler Hamilton's book years ago on cycling and that alludes to the same thing, whilst I appreciate it is different sports the logic is similar
What manufactured hype is there? He's a great boxer you said so yourself. It's surely not hype if he backs it up? Don't quite get what is manufactured either?
How is cherry picking, beating washed up fighters and getting dubious decisions not manufactured hyped?
GGG, Kovalev and Fielding.
I can give him Jacobs and BJS. But let's be honest, neither of them were knocking him out or getting the decision win.
Don’t know about that he’s fought some really good fighters Mosley, Kirkland, Cotto, Mayweather, C. Smith, L.Smith, Trout, Lara, I don’t think you can knock his resume.
Canelo destroyed Callum Smith's arm and he has smashed in Saunders' face.
Whatever BJS has taken has not given him the same sort of destructive power that Canelo has - the power to break bone and damage sinew.
He has borderline heavyweight power and that is ultimately what needs to be analyzed. It's unreal that a guy who began as low as Canelo did could sit down someone like Kovalev, for example, even an over-the-hill Kovalev.
Whatever BJS has taken has not given him the same sort of destructive power that Canelo has - the power to break bone and damage sinew.
He has borderline heavyweight power and that is ultimately what needs to be analyzed. It's unreal that a guy who began as low as Canelo did could sit down someone like Kovalev, for example, even an over-the-hill Kovalev.
Canelo does have that elite juice but damn is he a treat to watch
Its iffy isn't it. I'm reminded of Michael Bisping's quotes of fighters hitting harder than what is normal.
I agree with the above poster who mentioned everyone is at it. But the richest and biggest stars will obviously have access to the best gear.
He definitely punches harder than your average fighter in the division. I thought the first GGG fight (which Canelo basically lost in the eyes of the world) saw a pretty even distribution of punching power between both fighters.
Would like to see Beterbiev match up with Canelo next. He's beaten a mover in BJS but would like to see him up against a bigger opponent who can trade.
Not excited about the prospects of Canelo vs Plant stylistically but obviously it's about unifying the division more than anything.
I’d love to see Beterbiev fight Bivol with the winner fighting Canelo
But I agree, Canelo Beterbiev would be an amazing fight stylistically
I thought BJS did alright, I could have seen the fight as even going into the 8 but could see that Canelo's work was starting to show. Look the lad didn't quit and letting him go back out there would have been incredibly negligent. However I find it deliciously ironic that he shit talked about Dubois for the same thing, calling him a quitter, and saying that he'd never go out that way.
Anyway no doubt he'll claim it was a freak injury that ended the fight but if they fight again then Canelo beats him easier in my view.
As for PEDs, they are all at it. Some are just doing it better than others. It reminds me of when Floyd talked about Pac, acting like he wasn't doing the exact same shit.
As Bill Burr said about Lance: "Our roided up guy beat your roided up guy".
Anyway no doubt he'll claim it was a freak injury that ended the fight but if they fight again then Canelo beats him easier in my view.
As for PEDs, they are all at it. Some are just doing it better than others. It reminds me of when Floyd talked about Pac, acting like he wasn't doing the exact same shit.
As Bill Burr said about Lance: "Our roided up guy beat your roided up guy".
It’s disturbing to me to see people getting all giddy over Canelo’s win last night and the injury caused. Makes me question anyone who roots for him. We’ve known for a few years he’s juicing but like the Smith fight, a freak injury, now the guy shatters Saunders orbital bone in one shot. Saunders isn’t the most likable but it’s totally unfair that his career is likely over now because he fought this roided up freak. Look at the size of Canelo’s neck and his physique. It’s pathetic.
Like I said, I’m a bit dismayed at the worship and manufacturing being this guy. The hype train when it’s clear he’s ridiculously juiced and has other advantages too. He’s got talent and skill but his career and improvement is a huge * to me.
Like I said, I’m a bit dismayed at the worship and manufacturing being this guy. The hype train when it’s clear he’s ridiculously juiced and has other advantages too. He’s got talent and skill but his career and improvement is a huge * to me.
I know you're a huge boxing fan and much more knowledgable than me (mainly MMA here) but don't you think they are all doing it? I mean didn't BJS himself have a similar incident to the Canelo 'tainted beed' thing? I'd honestly love to know what you think because for example in MMA I don't diminish Jones' achievements because as far as I'm concerned everyone he fought was juiced, including DC.
Couldn't, for example, the difference between Canelo and BJS be that they are both juiced but Canelo simply has more natural talent, a better coaching team and took his training more seriously? For me in MMA I think Jones was just more talented than his opponents so when he juiced and they did he simply was still better.
I'm not happy that BJS might be finished (although lets be clear he is a top level scumbag) but I can se the irony in the video he released on Dubouis claiming he 'quit' against Joyce.
Don't get me wrong, especially in combat sports (where someone's life can be altered by a contest) I wish it was fully clean but unfortunately it never will be. Fury is a drug cheat too and no one cries foul about him beating Wilder, who as far as I know has never failed a test.
Yeah I feel people use the 'juiced up' shout to downplay a fighter's achievements because the likelihood is that they're all on it. Fury has been caught eating dodgy meat, as has BJ. AJ looks like he's done a few cycle, Canelo certaintly, Mayweather, Pac etc. Then there's all the one who have been caught. It'd be foolish to think only those who have been caught are the ones doing it.
I don't think you can take away Canelo's achievements as he's still a fantastic fighter and I'd gauge a high percentage of fighters he's fought have also been taking PED. I've not got much interest in the Plant fight, he should fight Beterbiev but I can understand him preferring the Plant fight.
One thing I love about Canelo is how active he is, literally wants to fight 4 times a year, it's refreshing and a throwback to previous eras. Most of these world champions are happy to fight once a year, and just keep their title by picking the weakest mandatory.
I don't think you can take away Canelo's achievements as he's still a fantastic fighter and I'd gauge a high percentage of fighters he's fought have also been taking PED. I've not got much interest in the Plant fight, he should fight Beterbiev but I can understand him preferring the Plant fight.
One thing I love about Canelo is how active he is, literally wants to fight 4 times a year, it's refreshing and a throwback to previous eras. Most of these world champions are happy to fight once a year, and just keep their title by picking the weakest mandatory.
GGG was washed up?!?! He was unbeaten going into the fights and has only lost once ever...to Canelo!
It's simply because the people saying it don't like him I think, it's obvious from the posts. It seems like when a band gets popular and people decide they don't like them anymore....don't want to be caught on the "bandwagon"
Saunders himself has failed a drugs test, his personal cheerleader Tyson Fury has failed a drugs test so it'd be weird for them to take a moral high ground of sorts against Canelo.
I think people need to get over the steroid stuff in all honesty, the reality is most top athletes in combat sports will be taking something, people just choose to turn a blind eye when it's their favours but will then get up in arms when it's someone they don't like.
It's fine not to like certain fighters but it does clearly cloud people's judgement massively. If Fury did the same to Joshua for example I don't think it'd be called "disturbing" despite him being a drugs cheat.
Isn’t your favourite JMM?
I must have been living in a cave, albeit I don’t follow boxing as much as many of you.
How is Canelo getting away with what you seem to be making out as obvious juicing? How has he been allowed to fight?
How is Canelo getting away with what you seem to be making out as obvious juicing? How has he been allowed to fight?
He’s the pound-for-pound world champion, when the sport lost many of its big attractions, so a blind eye is turned to it, even when he got caught the punishment was minimal and I think he still even fought the fight, boxing is a joke it’s corrupt.
But, those saying Mayweather was juicing I don’t remember anything about him during his career, I think he was clean.
If he's passing the drugs tests they can't do anything. Similar to how others get away with it the stuff they're apparently on isn't traced...or they're not on anything which is unlikely.
He obviously hits like he has some help, he has the endurance to and the look but he can't be banned for any of that.
He did fail a drugs test before the GGG fight and was suspended for that but not for long. He is the biggest star of boxing so they won't want him banned either.
Boxing is the most corrupt sport in history.
Seem to recall Thomas Hauser claiming otherwise around the Pacquiao fight with substantial evidence. He said that Mayweather used excessive IV treatment to dilute the tracing other substances. Also had agreements (at a $$$ cost) with USADA where his positive A samples were wavered and not reported to commission or opponent before fights.
I’m not suggesting FMJ was anywhere near as juiced to the extent Canelo is/has been but Hauser’s report was damning. It’s very much apparent upon reading that again that the definition of a ‘clean’ fighter is wide open. In FMJ’s case, he ‘reportedly’ had exceptional allowances and contractual gains that others are simply not afforded - and worryingly so it was done so discreetly without prior public knowledge. Even when reporting positive samples himself for Heaven’s sake.
That’s the biggest issue with boxing. They’ll all exploit those boundaries and seek to gain advantages where possible. Being ‘clean’ is very, very loosely defined.
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