Except that winning by KO is always more impressive than what AJ himself described as "boxing 12 rounds and running". If he himself correctly subscribes to this view then maybe those defending him should take that under consideration.
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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He wasn't running though? He controlled Ruiz and moved away from danger when needed, he boxed smart.
Mate, this "running" shite is pretty tiresome. I'd like to see you become 110 kg and "run around" like this for 3 minutes straight from someone trying to knock the feck out of you, let alone do it 11 more times after that. Trust me, you'd appreciate the ability to "run around" a lot more.
You've literally just said winning is all that matters, and now you're trying to add a 'but.' Total doublethink mate.
I mean, how you've managed to turn that quote into an admission from Joshua that it's an unimpressive way of winning is beyond me. You can get lucky with a wild swing and win while being outclassed for 11 rounds. No amount of luck is going to allow you to outbox your opponent for 12 rounds.
I said from the beginning that winning by KO is preferred. Not sure why this is so confusing.
A big punch KO can come out of nowhere, it's why we've seen such big upsets in the past, that's what makes it exciting, but totally outclassing someone and out boxing them for 12 rounds takes far more skill obviously.
You've said 'winning is the objective.' Since the fight you've heavily criticized Joshua for doing that in empathic fashion. You've literally described Joshua's approach as 'fight to not lose,' something you've actively avoided discussing with me, and I'm sure you'll do it again. You really don't understand the shade you've been getting?
Joshua has proven he can win by KO or he can win by points. Wilder has proven that if he can't land a swing then he gets woefully outclassed. But winning on points isn't impressive, right?
No comment on the second part of my post either?
Agreed
Do people expect boxers to go all out in a brawl? You will always have inboxes and outboxers you watch boxing long enough you start to respect the craft and enjoy the fury's and Mayweathers of this world.
If people only want wins by knockouts then have the fighters scrap in a back alley or something.
Once it's in the ring and under boxing rules then different standards apply. Outboxing and outclassing your opponent isn't "running away", it's being the better boxer. If the other fighter doesn't like it then it's up to him to do something about it. If he can't then he's failed, without it reflecting poorly on his opponent's approach in the slightest. This is what the sport is.
Fighters like to talk tough and brag about their fearlessness and knockout power but the sport is designed to reward intelligence and craft as much as sheer brute force. The boxers who talk about making it a "proper fight" instead of "running away" in the ring are typically fighters who have to fight that way regardless. Once it suits them to change tact themselves then suddenly the braggadocio falls to the wayside.
Once it's in the ring and under boxing rules then different standards apply. Outboxing and outclassing your opponent isn't "running away", it's being the better boxer. If the other fighter doesn't like it then it's up to him to do something about it. If he can't then he's failed, without it reflecting poorly on his opponent's approach in the slightest. This is what the sport is.
Fighters like to talk tough and brag about their fearlessness and knockout power but the sport is designed to reward intelligence and craft as much as sheer brute force. The boxers who talk about making it a "proper fight" instead of "running away" in the ring are typically fighters who have to fight that way regardless. Once it suits them to change tact themselves then suddenly the braggadocio falls to the wayside.
A part of me is slightly disappointed cause after he got embarrassed last time, I wanted him to knock out on style Ruiz (like Lewis did to Rrahman). On the other side, it was easily Joshua's best performance of his career, he was close to perfect (except rounds 8 and 9). If he boxes like this, he beats everyone.
No shame on dancing and out pointing the opponents, especially when they have a significant hand speed advantage (and actually having a granite chin, likely the best in the division). Ali did that and is the greatest in the category, Lewis did that, Klitschoks did that, Mayweather did that, Leonard did that. The criticism he is getting is very unfair, after he showed a masterclass.
I am a big fan of Usyk, but if AJ fights like this, cannot see Usyk having a hope winning the match.
No shame on dancing and out pointing the opponents, especially when they have a significant hand speed advantage (and actually having a granite chin, likely the best in the division). Ali did that and is the greatest in the category, Lewis did that, Klitschoks did that, Mayweather did that, Leonard did that. The criticism he is getting is very unfair, after he showed a masterclass.
I am a big fan of Usyk, but if AJ fights like this, cannot see Usyk having a hope winning the match.
I had a funny feeling in a moment after the first first when he looked at the camera and said something like 'hey mom, we made it!'. Also watched a few YouTube vids like someone else mentioned in this thread and it was just him eating junk and buying stuff all the way up until flying out to S.A.
He made me laugh (and Joshua too it seemed) when he asked who wants to see a third fight. Absolutely no one, fatty boom boom.
If he can get in to shape thought I'd agree him vs Whyte or Wilder could be a fun watch.
It's funny when people try downplay a boxer's ability or performance because they don't go out their way to put it all on the line needlessly and slug it to knockout for a hurrah from the casuals.
Boxing is a beautifully technical sport. Not just about brawling. If anything Joshua has added a string to his bow with that fight.
Boxing is a beautifully technical sport. Not just about brawling. If anything Joshua has added a string to his bow with that fight.
No he doesn't. Fury has his number. AJ fans never learn.
We don't know that.
no expert on boxing but i hope Wilder cleans them all up.
Boxing ability or not if he connects, goodnight.
Boxing ability or not if he connects, goodnight.
Think its also forgotten, AJ's main strength is his ability to adapt and grow. Guys been boxing 12 years and look what he has achieved against people training since a single digit age. This fight proves that even more, with easily 75% of boxing experts not thinking Aj could adapt his game like this in such a short space of time! Yes, Ruiz fecked up with his weight, but AJ danced rings round him all nighg, very reminiscent to Leonard vs Hearns 2. Exceptional stuff from AJ.
That hate the casual audience would throw at AJ vs Fury would be massive, but for purists I hope we get to see that fight one day, and not when they're both past it.
Come on.... this and 'him fighting like this is unbeatable in the division' are taking things too far. Also it being called a masterclass... it was a very good performance in a vital, crucial bout that has elevated Joshua as a fighter and made his legacy more storied and impressive, but there are still obvious vulnerabilities and trade offs that are apparent from that same performance.
Wilder and especially Fury, will be nonplussed by what they saw - Never in this lifetime will the Joshua seen on Saturday be able to outbox Fury; the power trade off for mobility is no great shakes for Wilder as out-boxing (ranged) a shorter man with much shorter reach and the intention of only wanting to get inside, ergo walking into jabs all night, which neither Fury or Wilder will do or have need to. In other words, Joshua is not going to be able to pick either of them off from the outside in the same manner and to generate his power he has to plant, heavily, which takes us back to square one argument ad nauseam vs Wilder and means absolutely nothing against Fury.
Don't want to sound like I'm shitting on the guy; this performance puts an onus on the other two to do something noteworthy again, but outside of that, and the redemption story itself, there's nothing different in the grand scheme of things.
Excellent boxing from Joshua. Really impressive & proved a lot of people wrong.
Also, people who pay the £25 quid and then moan about it, can understand the frustration but Joshua tried to engage in the first fight and got smashed. Totally made sense for him to box clever on the back foot and dominate with the jab. Class.
Cowardly because he avoided getting punched in the face all night by a 20 stone guy? Yes. Should have just stayed in the pocket landing blow for blow seeing which one drops first and ends up with brain damage. It's like you've never watched boxing before in your life.
Also, people who pay the £25 quid and then moan about it, can understand the frustration but Joshua tried to engage in the first fight and got smashed. Totally made sense for him to box clever on the back foot and dominate with the jab. Class.
Cowardly because he avoided getting punched in the face all night by a 20 stone guy? Yes. Should have just stayed in the pocket landing blow for blow seeing which one drops first and ends up with brain damage. It's like you've never watched boxing before in your life.I used to lean towards Joshua in a potential Fury fight, but now I see Fury boxing him a bit silly. Joshua showed some extra wrinkles in his game and the ability to adapt but there's a difference in Ruiz and Fury in terms of talent and style. Joshua won't be able to fight that fight with Fury, who's too quick of foot and too good a mover. Fury does not have the type of power to bother AJ though so maybe AJ can take more chances but then again, that's how he gets tired isn't it?
I don't see who beats Fury. He beat Wilder already, and he's too clever for AJ.
Styles make fights. Upsets will happen especially in the heavyweight division, that's why Wilder and Fury pick their fights very carefully and I suspect AJ may start taking some easy touches from here too.
Fury struggled against Otto Wallin, has been knocked down by Cunningham and got a gift vs McDermott etc. If he does clean up and is champ there will be some fringe contender that causes an upset.
Fury struggled against Otto Wallin, has been knocked down by Cunningham and got a gift vs McDermott etc. If he does clean up and is champ there will be some fringe contender that causes an upset.
I think Fury is the best of the lot by some distance, but think Wilder will clip him in the rematch 
When he weighed in over 17st. You'd think he could fight at intensity for longer at a lower weight.
Yeah, he does look better at this weight but he’s still far more plodding than Fury. He’ll have to chase the action and I think he’d be a step behind.
Have to wonder what the optimal weight is for Joshua vs. the other two, really.
To my mind, lightness and mobility won't make any difference vs Fury, because he simply can't move well enough to try and outbox him, but at a heavier weight, working behind the guard to try and cut off the ring, corner him and then attempting to pummel him might be effective, although I think Fury is still too savvy and mobile for that to work.
Vs. Wilder, does he aim to be heavier and have the power in his every punch that keeps Wilder honest via the threat he himself could be knocked out, or does he try and stay as mobile as he can be with higher levels of stamina, but less chance of a knock out and more risk in any trading blows?
To my mind, lightness and mobility won't make any difference vs Fury, because he simply can't move well enough to try and outbox him, but at a heavier weight, working behind the guard to try and cut off the ring, corner him and then attempting to pummel him might be effective, although I think Fury is still too savvy and mobile for that to work.
Vs. Wilder, does he aim to be heavier and have the power in his every punch that keeps Wilder honest via the threat he himself could be knocked out, or does he try and stay as mobile as he can be with higher levels of stamina, but less chance of a knock out and more risk in any trading blows?
I don't think either has the skills to go 12 rounds without getting hit clean, even vs. Ruiz in 8-9 AJ had to take a few decent punches. A heavier Joshua knocks Wilder out so I think that's the best option, he's still a better boxer than Wilder when heavy and needs to take him out of there.
Absolutely cannot call that fight, whoever hits big first!
Possibly. I fancy he'll still cut the ring off better than Wilder did against him and he'll catch him a few more times, too. Would be a good fight I'm sure.
I like Wilder, not particularly big on him though. I give him his dues in that it's not just his powers he has to plant the punch and the Ortiz fight showed he's willing to be patient and that you can never count him out regardless of the scorecard. Probably the more excitable fighter because of it, but AJ and Fury are better boxers.
AJ is my guy but right now I'm not sure he would take Fury on points - Gypsy King has mad boxing IQ. But AJ has shown he can adapt and still learning so given time, he'll smash him no doubt.
AJ is my guy but right now I'm not sure he would take Fury on points - Gypsy King has mad boxing IQ. But AJ has shown he can adapt and still learning so given time, he'll smash him no doubt.
Wilder put Fury on the floor twice. He'd definitely catch Joshua at some point. But Joshua can catch him. Thats what makes it so exciting.
Can't stand Wilder personally All this 'I want a body on my record' just makes him seem like a pathetic moron.
If people aren't interested in watching you win, try and get them interested in watching you lose
It's all about trying to sell fights
It's all about trying to sell fights
This was part of Mayweather's genius. So many people bought his fights in the hope of seeing him lose.
Exactly. He’s a scumbag. His whole persona is pathetic.
Recently submitted roughly 20 questions over to the legendary Fighting Harada in Japan. He's answered them, now they are being translated and sent back to me. Will post here. Not sure if in story form or just Q & A form yet. He's one of the greatest fighters of all-time for those not familiar with the name.
I will also be having dinner with Carlos Zarate in two weeks. His son lives in Long Beach, so he will be coming over from Mexico City for the holidays. I will also be writing a piece on him that will feature on boxeomundial. Zarate, I believe holds the distinction as having the highest KO % of all retired world champions, in addition to being one of very few fighters to have two separate 20 bout KO streaks. He's one of the best bantamweights in history and one of Mexico's all-time greatest.
I will also be having dinner with Carlos Zarate in two weeks. His son lives in Long Beach, so he will be coming over from Mexico City for the holidays. I will also be writing a piece on him that will feature on boxeomundial. Zarate, I believe holds the distinction as having the highest KO % of all retired world champions, in addition to being one of very few fighters to have two separate 20 bout KO streaks. He's one of the best bantamweights in history and one of Mexico's all-time greatest.
Sad story ongoing.
From another forum:
Boxing legend, Olympic gold medalist and former U.S. Marine Leon Spinks is fighting for his life in a Las Vegas hospital.
The 66-year-old's exact condition has not been revealed, but his wife has asked for prayers on social media.
'Dear Friends,' Brenda Glur Spinks wrote on Facebook. 'I know it's been awhile. However, you know how I Believe in the Power of Prayer. It's been a tough year for us. Leon has endured a lot of medical problems. I'm reaching out to ask you to kindly pray for my Beautiful Husband Leon [so that] he may overcome the obstacles that have crossed his path.'
His son, Leon Spinks III, also pleaded for prayers on Facebook.
'As u all know by now im a very very private person & i NEVER seek attention or emotional support for the uncontrollable bs life seem to throw at me thru social media,' Spinks III wrote, 'but this is for the record My Dad isnt doing so good now & his wife Brenda Glur Spinks and I ask that u pray that he weather's (sic) this storm. my dad is all i have left and i really appreciate it if yall let God know that he is not in this battle alone.'
Spinks has suffered through poor health in recent years. He was previously hospitalized in 2014 after chicken bones caused significant damage to his intestines, according to TMZ. He subsequently endured several surgeries.
A member of the Nevada Boxing Hall of Fame, Spinks is best remembered for upsetting Muhammad Ali in 1978 to win the heavyweight title.
Ali won their rematch, marking his final victory in the ring, while Spinks went just 19-16-2 over the remainder of his career.
Prior to becoming heavyweight champion, Spinks served in the U.S. Marines for three years before winning gold as a light heavyweight at the 1976 Summer Olympics in Montreal.
Spinks also graced one of the more famous Sports Illustrated covers, showing off his gap-toothed smile in one 1978 issue.
His younger brother, Michael, began his boxing career with a 31-0 record before famously suffering a first-round knockout at the hands of Mike Tyson in 1988 and immediately retiring afterward.
From another forum:
Boxing legend, Olympic gold medalist and former U.S. Marine Leon Spinks is fighting for his life in a Las Vegas hospital.
The 66-year-old's exact condition has not been revealed, but his wife has asked for prayers on social media.
'Dear Friends,' Brenda Glur Spinks wrote on Facebook. 'I know it's been awhile. However, you know how I Believe in the Power of Prayer. It's been a tough year for us. Leon has endured a lot of medical problems. I'm reaching out to ask you to kindly pray for my Beautiful Husband Leon [so that] he may overcome the obstacles that have crossed his path.'
His son, Leon Spinks III, also pleaded for prayers on Facebook.
'As u all know by now im a very very private person & i NEVER seek attention or emotional support for the uncontrollable bs life seem to throw at me thru social media,' Spinks III wrote, 'but this is for the record My Dad isnt doing so good now & his wife Brenda Glur Spinks and I ask that u pray that he weather's (sic) this storm. my dad is all i have left and i really appreciate it if yall let God know that he is not in this battle alone.'
Spinks has suffered through poor health in recent years. He was previously hospitalized in 2014 after chicken bones caused significant damage to his intestines, according to TMZ. He subsequently endured several surgeries.
A member of the Nevada Boxing Hall of Fame, Spinks is best remembered for upsetting Muhammad Ali in 1978 to win the heavyweight title.
Ali won their rematch, marking his final victory in the ring, while Spinks went just 19-16-2 over the remainder of his career.
Prior to becoming heavyweight champion, Spinks served in the U.S. Marines for three years before winning gold as a light heavyweight at the 1976 Summer Olympics in Montreal.
Spinks also graced one of the more famous Sports Illustrated covers, showing off his gap-toothed smile in one 1978 issue.
His younger brother, Michael, began his boxing career with a 31-0 record before famously suffering a first-round knockout at the hands of Mike Tyson in 1988 and immediately retiring afterward.
Have been looking forward to Lopez/Commey for some time but can't see it on any UK platform despite Crawford being on same bill.
Looks like a YouTube delayed upload for me.
Looks like a YouTube delayed upload for me.
I've heard reddit is good for streams too. You should be able to find on there.
Crawford is my favorite active boxer and I rate his opponent as being a pretty decent fighter but no question Lopez-Commey is the fight of the next. I lean towards Lopez to win to set himself up for a schooling against Lomachenko - unless he conveniently "can't make weight" anymore.